GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries By Rebecca Wanjiku, Computerworld Kenya 29 Sep, 2011 The cost of telephone calls between African countries is likely to remain high and international call volumes will drop with the introduction of taxes, according to a report from the GSM Association. Senegal, Ghana, Congo Brazaville and Gabon have introduced taxes on incoming international calls, leading to higher costs for users and reduced revenue and call volumes for mobile operators. The taxes are also likely to reduce foreign direct investments because the costs of operating businesses such as call centers will probably go up. "The tax takes the form of an imposed fixed price that operators must charge for international inbound termination, of which the government takes a set amount," said the report, issued on the sidelines of the U.N. Internet Governance Forum in Nairobi. A private party measures international inbound minutes terminated by operators and bills them accordingly, it said. While the taxes are different in the four countries, the affect on the operators has been the same. In Senegal, call prices rose by 50 percent. In Ghana, prices rose by 58 percent while inbound traffic fell by 12 percent in the six months after the tax was introduced. In Congo Brazaville, the price of inbound calls rose by 111 percent while the volume fell by 36 percent. In Gabon, prices rose by 82 percent when the tax was introduced in August 2011. The report questioned the benefit of the tax on economies, given that half the money collected is shared with the third-party company that monitors the calls. "The main objective of this taxation is to raise revenues for governments, in this case by taxing users calling from abroad into the country, however, the government transfers approximately 50 percent of the revenue from the tax to the external call monitoring party," the report said. "This leakage should be taken into account when assessing the effectiveness and net benefit of this tax." The report projects that other African countries are likely to reciprocate by raising the cost of inbound calls. In Congo Brazaville, an operator reported that an operator in another African country raised call termination charges by 30 percent. while in Senegal, an operator reported that nine operators in other African countries raised rates by 23 to 80 percent, making the call costs very high. The GSMA further noted that many operators are not making profits because the cost of other services and maintaining rural telecoms infrastructure is high. In supporting its case to remove telecommunication taxes, the GSMA released another report that highlights the benefits that Kenya has gained since it zero-rated mobile handsets in June 2009. This year, the mobile communications industry will contribute US$300 million to the GDP and a further $100 million from intangible benefits to Kenyan consumers. The industry also employs 250,000 people in Kenya. "Since June 2009 when the tax was removed, handset purchases have increased by more than 200 percent and penetration rates have increased substantially from 50 percent to 70 percent, this successful policy confirms that consumption taxes can have a significant impact on consumer behavior in Kenya," said the report. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World!
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com <Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com <jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com <http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
Grammer? :) Yes, there's an awful lot of bad spelling, haphazard punctuation, and so on. The Financial Standard treated us to 'The boy who often got into trouble with his father for not tacking in his shirt' in an article about the CBK governor. It also claimed that 'The sale of the Grand Regency Hotel bloated the otherwise good work by the governor.....' But two points: Victor is right that ICT may be part of the problem - in particular the mobile phone. SMS English has become pervasive, and you regularly find graduates who literally can't string a sentence together anymore. I receive internship applications in SMS English. Also, hiring unemployed graduates isn't the solution: proofreading, editing, subbing isn't something that you just know how to do even if you have an English degree. Figuring out how to use spellcheck isn't very difficult. But many people just don't use it because, I suspect, they don't see the value in it anymore. Also, spellcheck won't fish out everything: sparking and sparkling are both proper words. Except there's nothing that sparkles a riot. And then there's the school system - remember the 'misclennous' expenses listed by the striking teachers? Or the many, many typos on the Elimuportal.net? Yes, it's a topic I'm a bit obsessed with: http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/36970-when-english-becomes-g... . On 4 October 2011 23:29, Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> wrote:
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
When i read this three things come into mind; Journalism as a course which has its ethos, ICT which is just but a tool to be used and finally language which is acquired at school through learning. I want to believe that it is part of a requirement in any journalism training that the student must be good in the language either English, Kiswahili or any other relevant one. I am tempted to blame the media houses for possibly having people who are either sleeping on the job or might not have the requisite qualifications to be on that job. Even if ICT was part of the curriculum in journalism training, while the student is not conversant with the language and style it is futile. It is impossible to spell check (ICT) a word you have no idea about. How wonderful it is to use ICT when you know what you want to achieve! Sam ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: saguyo@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Grammer? :) Yes, there's an awful lot of bad spelling, haphazard punctuation, and so on. The Financial Standard treated us to'The boy who often got into trouble with his father for not tacking in his shirt' in an article about the CBK governor. It also claimed that 'The sale of the Grand Regency Hotel bloated the otherwise good work by the governor.....' But two points: Victor is right that ICT may be part of the problem - in particular the mobile phone. SMS English has become pervasive, and you regularly find graduates who literally can't string a sentence together anymore. I receive internship applications in SMS English. Also, hiring unemployed graduates isn't the solution: proofreading, editing, subbing isn't something that you just know how to do even if you have an English degree. Figuring out how to use spellcheck isn't very difficult. But many people just don't use it because, I suspect, they don't see the value in it anymore. Also, spellcheck won't fish out everything: sparking and sparkling are both proper words. Except there's nothing that sparkles a riot. And then there's the school system - remember the 'misclennous' expenses listed by the striking teachers? Or the many, many typos on the Elimuportal.net? Yes, it's a topic I'm a bit obsessed with: http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/36970-when-english-becomes-g... . On 4 October 2011 23:29, Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> wrote: Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message-----
From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57
To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
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Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>.
Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/saguyo%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The starting point really is high school.If you find a poor english writer,kindly check his O-level results in english language and start from there. John Kariuki ________________________________ From: Sam Aguyo <saguyo@yahoo.com> To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2011, 7:16 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint When i read this three things come into mind; Journalism as a course which has its ethos, ICT which is just but a tool to be used and finally language which is acquired at school through learning. I want to believe that it is part of a requirement in any journalism training that the student must be good in the language either English, Kiswahili or any other relevant one. I am tempted to blame the media houses for possibly having people who are either sleeping on the job or might not have the requisite qualifications to be on that job. Even if ICT was part of the curriculum in journalism training, while the student is not conversant with the language and style it is futile. It is impossible to spell check (ICT) a word you have no idea about. How wonderful it is to use ICT when you know what you want to achieve! Sam ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: saguyo@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Grammer? :) Yes, there's an awful lot of bad spelling, haphazard punctuation, and so on. The Financial Standard treated us to'The boy who often got into trouble with his father for not tacking in his shirt' in an article about the CBK governor. It also claimed that 'The sale of the Grand Regency Hotel bloated the otherwise good work by the governor.....' But two points: Victor is right that ICT may be part of the problem - in particular the mobile phone. SMS English has become pervasive, and you regularly find graduates who literally can't string a sentence together anymore. I receive internship applications in SMS English. Also, hiring unemployed graduates isn't the solution: proofreading, editing, subbing isn't something that you just know how to do even if you have an English degree. Figuring out how to use spellcheck isn't very difficult. But many people just don't use it because, I suspect, they don't see the value in it anymore. Also, spellcheck won't fish out everything: sparking and sparkling are both proper words. Except there's nothing that sparkles a riot. And then there's the school system - remember the 'misclennous' expenses listed by the striking teachers? Or the many, many typos on the Elimuportal.net? Yes, it's a topic I'm a bit obsessed with: http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/36970-when-english-becomes-g... . On 4 October 2011 23:29, Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> wrote: Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message-----
From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57
To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>.
Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/saguyo%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40ya... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
And not just in print but online - there was a recent thread on KICTANET abt the death of online media and with the kind of errors in each response to that thread (spelling and perhaps malapropisms) I suspect the death knell could be sounded for online media as well :-) Of course we can always say its Kenyan English. have not the Americans laid claim to a different type of English? While at it, we should assert the right to claim "severally" as a Kenyan English word :-) I cringe when listening to the wrong use of prepositions on our TV news broadcasts... On 5 October 2011 07:45, John Kariuki <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
The starting point really is high school.If you find a poor english writer,kindly check his O-level results in english language and start from there.
John Kariuki
------------------------------ *From:* Sam Aguyo <saguyo@yahoo.com> *To:* ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 October 2011, 7:16
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
When i read this three things come into mind; Journalism as a course which has its ethos, ICT which is just but a tool to be used and finally language which is acquired at school through learning. I want to believe that it is part of a requirement in any journalism training that the student must be good in the language either English, Kiswahili or any other relevant one. I am tempted to blame the media houses for possibly having people who are either sleeping on the job or might not have the requisite qualifications to be on that job.
Even if ICT was part of the curriculum in journalism training, while the student is not conversant with the language and style it is futile. It is impossible to spell check (ICT) a word you have no idea about.
How wonderful it is to use ICT when you know what you want to achieve!
Sam
------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* saguyo@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:58 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Grammer? :)
Yes, there's an awful lot of bad spelling, haphazard punctuation, and so on. The Financial Standard treated us to 'The boy who often got into trouble with his father for not tacking in his shirt' in an article about the CBK governor. It also claimed that 'The sale of the Grand Regency Hotel bloated the otherwise good work by the governor.....'
But two points: Victor is right that ICT may be part of the problem - in particular the mobile phone. SMS English has become pervasive, and you regularly find graduates who literally can't string a sentence together anymore. I receive internship applications in SMS English.
Also, hiring unemployed graduates isn't the solution: proofreading, editing, subbing isn't something that you just know how to do even if you have an English degree.
Figuring out how to use spellcheck isn't very difficult. But many people just don't use it because, I suspect, they don't see the value in it anymore. Also, spellcheck won't fish out everything: sparking and sparkling are both proper words. Except there's nothing that sparkles a riot.
And then there's the school system - remember the 'misclennous' expenses listed by the striking teachers? Or the many, many typos on the Elimuportal.net?
Yes, it's a topic I'm a bit obsessed with: http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/36970-when-english-becomes-g...
. On 4 October 2011 23:29, Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> wrote:
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Francis Hook +254 733 504561
Andrea Blaming tools like the PC and mobile phones for bad grammar and spelling is a bit like blaming the gun for killings - they will happen with or without the gun. Attitudes, the willingness to learn and continuously improve ourselves is what matters. Ali Hussein - Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+info=alyhussein.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:58:30 To: <info@alyhussein.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Andrea, I guess it is a more serious problem. That of poor foundation and commercialization of our undergraduate programs. Every backstreet building in most towns now houses some university or affiliate college or program. How can all these mushrooming universities and campuses access competent faculty to take our young people through this crucial stage of their lives? How can they access library and other resources? Can we really blame these Kenyans? I want to ask the Professors and Lecturers here and elsewhere to search their souls and ask themselves whether what is going on in Kenyan universities is sustainable. A large number of our graduating students cannot process simple tasks nor can they engage in intellectual discussions in their 'professional' areas. This week I saw a candidate to the IEBC with a PhD (due respect to her) who barely processed simple questions asked by the Ekuru Aukot Panel. Let us go back to our universities and 'campuses' and try to understand what really goes on there. Let us check whether in fact in some of these institutions any education is at all taking place. Kipkemoi arap Kirui Sent from my iPad On Oct 5, 2011, at 7:24, info@alyhussein.com wrote:
Andrea
Blaming tools like the PC and mobile phones for bad grammar and spelling is a bit like blaming the gun for killings - they will happen with or without the gun.
Attitudes, the willingness to learn and continuously improve ourselves is what matters.
Ali Hussein - Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+info=alyhussein.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:58:30 To: <info@alyhussein.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Kipkemoi arap Kirui, In system theory there is feedback and evaluation which informs subsequent inputs. When the output does not meet the expectations, you either change the quality of inputs or revise the processing system. We need some work on our 8-4-4 system. Ndemo.
Andrea,
I guess it is a more serious problem. That of poor foundation and commercialization of our undergraduate programs. Every backstreet building in most towns now houses some university or affiliate college or program. How can all these mushrooming universities and campuses access competent faculty to take our young people through this crucial stage of their lives? How can they access library and other resources? Can we really blame these Kenyans?
I want to ask the Professors and Lecturers here and elsewhere to search their souls and ask themselves whether what is going on in Kenyan universities is sustainable. A large number of our graduating students cannot process simple tasks nor can they engage in intellectual discussions in their 'professional' areas. This week I saw a candidate to the IEBC with a PhD (due respect to her) who barely processed simple questions asked by the Ekuru Aukot Panel.
Let us go back to our universities and 'campuses' and try to understand what really goes on there. Let us check whether in fact in some of these institutions any education is at all taking place.
Kipkemoi arap Kirui
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2011, at 7:24, info@alyhussein.com wrote:
Andrea
Blaming tools like the PC and mobile phones for bad grammar and spelling is a bit like blaming the gun for killings - they will happen with or without the gun.
Attitudes, the willingness to learn and continuously improve ourselves is what matters.
Ali Hussein - Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+info=alyhussein.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:58:30 To: <info@alyhussein.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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Omogambi Ndemo, Yours is a call to action. Can we diagnose, evaluate and act? arap Kirui On 5 October 2011 14:29, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Kipkemoi arap Kirui, In system theory there is feedback and evaluation which informs subsequent inputs. When the output does not meet the expectations, you either change the quality of inputs or revise the processing system. We need some work on our 8-4-4 system.
Ndemo.
Andrea,
I guess it is a more serious problem. That of poor foundation and commercialization of our undergraduate programs. Every backstreet building in most towns now houses some university or affiliate college or program. How can all these mushrooming universities and campuses access competent faculty to take our young people through this crucial stage of their lives? How can they access library and other resources? Can we really blame these Kenyans?
I want to ask the Professors and Lecturers here and elsewhere to search their souls and ask themselves whether what is going on in Kenyan universities is sustainable. A large number of our graduating students cannot process simple tasks nor can they engage in intellectual discussions in their 'professional' areas. This week I saw a candidate to the IEBC with a PhD (due respect to her) who barely processed simple questions asked by the Ekuru Aukot Panel.
Let us go back to our universities and 'campuses' and try to understand what really goes on there. Let us check whether in fact in some of these institutions any education is at all taking place.
Kipkemoi arap Kirui
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2011, at 7:24, info@alyhussein.com wrote:
Andrea
Blaming tools like the PC and mobile phones for bad grammar and spelling is a bit like blaming the gun for killings - they will happen with or without the gun.
Attitudes, the willingness to learn and continuously improve ourselves is what matters.
Ali Hussein - Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+info=alyhussein.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:58:30 To: <info@alyhussein.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
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I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this). Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong.... Enough said.... Nyaki ________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates. On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Hi Andrea, What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same. A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology. That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media. "Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates. On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote: I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
list privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Good one Bobby, i like your proposal. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:36 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Robert I share this view. It makes lots of sense to outsource since everyone wins at the end. Cleophas On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:36 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Sincerely, Cleophas Barmasai "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age..." (Titus 2:11,12, NKJV)
Robert, Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office. However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly. My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that. Andrea On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Andrea, You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one. I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain, "hit where it hurts most" Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Robert, Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office. However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly. My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that. Andrea On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong.... list privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
Robert, I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification. Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends. All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree. I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :) Andrea On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Hi Andrea, You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing. Regards PS. Thanks for the correction Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Robert, I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification. Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends. All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree. I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :) Andrea On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online
Ltd list privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine. <em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a> ________________________________ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> To: luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Hi Andrea, You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing. Regards PS. Thanks for the correction Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Robert, I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification. Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends. All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree. I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :) Andrea On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
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Ltd list privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmulunda%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too. More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/ The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/ On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322
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Hello, This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause. So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on. The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date. The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring. Kamotho On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
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Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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Hi All, Surely how important is it to have correct grammar in newspapers? given all other misquotations they always propagate. Rather than us spending time correcting them, why don't we spend time actualizing the great ideas Daktari Ndemo gave us a few weeks back especially examples of how much we loose in forex when importing tomatoes whereas ours lot in shambas. No wonder the shilling is loosing so much as a result We all know how the west is declining economically despite their being up there in ICT. some one from there told me the other day that, they now need to go back to basics of producing real goods and services in agriculture so that they have something REAL to export ELSE they will soon start receiving food aid from the BRICS Kenya should learn something from this. my 2 cents Charles Nduati CHARLES N. NDUATI GENERAL MANAGER JKUAT ENTERPRISES LTD JOMO KENYATTA UNIVERSITY OF AGRICULTURE AND TECHNOLOGY JUJA MAIN CAMPUS, THIKA P. O. BOX 79324-00200 NAIROBI, KENYA TEL: 254-067-52420 OR 254-067-52711 FAX: 254-067-52438 MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke www.jkuat.ac.ke ________________________________ From: Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> To: charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 20:57 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Hello, This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause. So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on. The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date. The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring. Kamotho On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote: 'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
________________________________ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> To: luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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This is hardly and either-or issue, isn't it? If I see lousy spelling etc in newspapers, I wonder how diligent the media houses are with their facts if they can't even sort out that. Copyediting is quality control, and being serious about quality control is useful in every sector, whether media or farming. If Kenya wants to compete internationally, it helps having university graduates who can put together an application letter in proper English rather than SMS English (I've got those, just in case you don't believe me). Learning a language properly is not just about fixing typos in newspapers. As someone said earlier on this thread, it starts in school. A large vocabulary, an understanding of sentences, structure etc actually help you think, conceptualise, abstract. It helps you ask critical question, interrogate issues, and find out things. All useful for your own career, all useful for the wider economy, all useful for forex revenues. On 12 October 2011 12:54, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi All,
Surely how important is it to have correct grammar in newspapers? given all other misquotations they always propagate.
Rather than us spending time correcting them, why don't we spend time actualizing the great ideas Daktari Ndemo gave us a few weeks back especially examples of how much we loose in forex when importing tomatoes whereas ours lot in shambas. No wonder the shilling is loosing so much as a result
We all know how the west is declining economically despite their being up there in ICT. some one from there told me the other day that, they now need to go back to basics of producing real goods and services in agriculture so that they have something REAL to export ELSE they will soon start receiving food aid from the BRICS
Kenya should learn something from this.
my 2 cents
Charles Nduati
CHARLES N. NDUATI GENERAL MANAGER JKUAT ENTERPRISES LTD JOMO KENYATTA UNIVERSITY OF AGRICULTURE AND TECHNOLOGY JUJA MAIN CAMPUS, THIKA P. O. BOX 79324-00200 NAIROBI, KENYA TEL: 254-067-52420 OR 254-067-52711 FAX: 254-067-52438 MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com, bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke www.jkuat.ac.ke ------------------------------ *From:* Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> *To:* charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 20:57
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hello,
This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause.
So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on.
The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date.
The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring.
Kamotho
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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Hi, I am wondering why no one has raised the issue of the changes to the constitution documents that Hon. Karua and Mungatana raised in parliament on Tuesday where; The draft Bill read: “The party list shall not contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.” The amendment read: “The party list may contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.” Published as “The party list may not contain a name of any presidential or deputy presidential candidate nominated for an election under this Act.” I am sure there are hundreds more of these and NARC decided to only pick what they felt affected them directly. This reminds me of the case where former Hon. Muite picked a similar 'error' where the statement "not less than" was changed to "not more than" in relation to the number of days between dissolution of parliament and the date of the election. The rot is worse than we think even with a new CJ, AG and a Supreme Court Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 13:06 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint This is hardly and either-or issue, isn't it? If I see lousy spelling etc in newspapers, I wonder how diligent the media houses are with their facts if they can't even sort out that. Copyediting is quality control, and being serious about quality control is useful in every sector, whether media or farming. If Kenya wants to compete internationally, it helps having university graduates who can put together an application letter in proper English rather than SMS English (I've got those, just in case you don't believe me). Learning a language properly is not just about fixing typos in newspapers. As someone said earlier on this thread, it starts in school. A large vocabulary, an understanding of sentences, structure etc actually help you think, conceptualise, abstract. It helps you ask critical question, interrogate issues, and find out things. All useful for your own career, all useful for the wider economy, all useful for forex revenues. On 12 October 2011 12:54, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi All,
Surely how important is it to have correct grammar in newspapers? given all other misquotations they always propagate.
Rather than us spending time correcting them, why don't we spend time actualizing the great ideas Daktari Ndemo gave us a few weeks back especially examples of how much we loose in forex when importing tomatoes whereas ours lot in shambas. No wonder the shilling is loosing so much as a result
We all know how the west is declining economically despite their being up there in ICT. some one from there told me the other day that, they now need to go back to basics of producing real goods and services in agriculture so that they have something REAL to export ELSE they will soon start receiving food aid from the BRICS
Kenya should learn something from this.
my 2 cents
Charles Nduati CHARLES N. NDUATI GENERAL MANAGER JKUAT ENTERPRISES LTD JOMO KENYATTA UNIVERSITY OF AGRICULTURE AND TECHNOLOGY JUJA MAIN CAMPUS, THIKA P. O. BOX 79324-00200 NAIROBI, KENYA TEL: 254-067-52420 OR 254-067-52711 FAX: 254-067-52438 MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com,bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke www.jkuat.ac.ke
________________________________ From: Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> To: charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 20:57
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hello,
This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is
a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause.
So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on.
The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date.
The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring.
Kamotho
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
________________________________ From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> To: luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
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I've refrained from commenting on this post as a newspaper man myself but without appearing to split hairs over nothing, may I point out that we do not have declining grammar as it implies that we are losing words to history and that the lexicon available for use in telling news stories is diminishing. Perhaps the post should be titled, "Deteriorating grammar...." That being said, I do concur that the writing has really gone down especially when, in an age of word processors with spell check it should be error free. I blame diminished reading first and foremost. As much as the language is taught in schools, it is books such as novels that teach people how to put phrases rather than words together in varied ways. Pervasive television and internet have seen the decline of the novel as a primary form of entertainment/hobby. The other is of course teaching which is taught by people who should themselves undergo refresher courses in the language (i.e. skills like writing and reading) and are at the same time under pressure to coach kids to pass exams not master the language. This means people are leaving school without the mechanics of the language. I've always thought the solution to be a reduced number of subjects in elementary school such as English, Mathematics and a general paper. This will allow more time to work on teaching the language. On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 2:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I am wondering why no one has raised the issue of the changes to the constitution documents that Hon. Karua and Mungatana raised in parliament on Tuesday where;
The draft Bill read: “The party list shall not contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.”
The amendment read: “The party list may contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.”
Published as “The party list may not contain a name of any presidential or deputy presidential candidate nominated for an election under this Act.” I am sure there are hundreds more of these and NARC decided to only pick what they felt affected them directly. This reminds me of the case where former Hon. Muite picked a similar 'error' where the statement "not less than" was changed to "not more than" in relation to the number of days between dissolution of parliament and the date of the election.
The rot is worse than we think even with a new CJ, AG and a Supreme Court
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 13:06 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
This is hardly and either-or issue, isn't it? If I see lousy spelling etc in newspapers, I wonder how diligent the media houses are with their facts if they can't even sort out that. Copyediting is quality control, and being serious about quality control is useful in every sector, whether media or farming.
If Kenya wants to compete internationally, it helps having university graduates who can put together an application letter in proper English rather than SMS English (I've got those, just in case you don't believe me).
Learning a language properly is not just about fixing typos in newspapers. As someone said earlier on this thread, it starts in school. A large vocabulary, an understanding of sentences, structure etc actually help you think, conceptualise, abstract. It helps you ask critical question, interrogate issues, and find out things.
All useful for your own career, all useful for the wider economy, all useful for forex revenues.
On 12 October 2011 12:54, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi All,
Surely how important is it to have correct grammar in newspapers? given all other misquotations they always propagate.
Rather than us spending time correcting them, why don't we spend time actualizing the great ideas Daktari Ndemo gave us a few weeks back especially examples of how much we loose in forex when importing tomatoes whereas ours lot in shambas. No wonder the shilling is loosing so much as a result
We all know how the west is declining economically despite their being up there in ICT. some one from there told me the other day that, they now need to go back to basics of producing real goods and services in agriculture so that they have something REAL to export ELSE they will soon start receiving food aid from the BRICS
Kenya should learn something from this.
my 2 cents
Charles Nduati
CHARLES N. NDUATI GENERAL MANAGER JKUAT ENTERPRISES LTD JOMO KENYATTA UNIVERSITY OF AGRICULTURE AND TECHNOLOGY JUJA MAIN CAMPUS, THIKA P. O. BOX 79324-00200 NAIROBI, KENYA TEL: 254-067-52420 OR 254-067-52711 FAX: 254-067-52438 MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com, bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke www.jkuat.ac.ke ------------------------------ *From:* Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> *To:* charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 20:57
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hello,
This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause.
So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on.
The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date.
The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring.
Kamotho
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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Some great points on reading and learning language in James' email. I still think it's one of the greatest gifts that my parents have given me: they read us a bedtime story every night until we could read on our own. . I got so ticked off by the Standard's front page this morning that I took to my blog: http://andreabohnstedt.blogspot.com/ But I loved this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/public-bookshelves-spread-across-... I wonder if this would work in Nairobi (just to get started)? Maybe next to dhukas? Maybe with StoryMoja (or rather their trust)? Maybe with a couple of motivated people who'd each adopt a bookshelf and help look after it? I also really like http://www.bookcrossing.com/ Maybe combine both? Happy Friday, everyone! Andrea On 12 October 2011 17:16, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
I've refrained from commenting on this post as a newspaper man myself but without appearing to split hairs over nothing, may I point out that we do not have declining grammar as it implies that we are losing words to history and that the lexicon available for use in telling news stories is diminishing. Perhaps the post should be titled, "Deteriorating grammar...."
That being said, I do concur that the writing has really gone down especially when, in an age of word processors with spell check it should be error free.
I blame diminished reading first and foremost. As much as the language is taught in schools, it is books such as novels that teach people how to put phrases rather than words together in varied ways. Pervasive television and internet have seen the decline of the novel as a primary form of entertainment/hobby.
The other is of course teaching which is taught by people who should themselves undergo refresher courses in the language (i.e. skills like writing and reading) and are at the same time under pressure to coach kids to pass exams not master the language. This means people are leaving school without the mechanics of the language.
I've always thought the solution to be a reduced number of subjects in elementary school such as English, Mathematics and a general paper. This will allow more time to work on teaching the language.
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 2:58 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
I am wondering why no one has raised the issue of the changes to the constitution documents that Hon. Karua and Mungatana raised in parliament on Tuesday where;
The draft Bill read: “The party list shall not contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.”
The amendment read: “The party list may contain a name of any candidate nominated for an election under this Act.”
Published as “The party list may not contain a name of any presidential or deputy presidential candidate nominated for an election under this Act.” I am sure there are hundreds more of these and NARC decided to only pick what they felt affected them directly. This reminds me of the case where former Hon. Muite picked a similar 'error' where the statement "not less than" was changed to "not more than" in relation to the number of days between dissolution of parliament and the date of the election.
The rot is worse than we think even with a new CJ, AG and a Supreme Court
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 13:06 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
This is hardly and either-or issue, isn't it? If I see lousy spelling etc in newspapers, I wonder how diligent the media houses are with their facts if they can't even sort out that. Copyediting is quality control, and being serious about quality control is useful in every sector, whether media or farming.
If Kenya wants to compete internationally, it helps having university graduates who can put together an application letter in proper English rather than SMS English (I've got those, just in case you don't believe me).
Learning a language properly is not just about fixing typos in newspapers. As someone said earlier on this thread, it starts in school. A large vocabulary, an understanding of sentences, structure etc actually help you think, conceptualise, abstract. It helps you ask critical question, interrogate issues, and find out things.
All useful for your own career, all useful for the wider economy, all useful for forex revenues.
On 12 October 2011 12:54, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi All,
Surely how important is it to have correct grammar in newspapers? given all other misquotations they always propagate.
Rather than us spending time correcting them, why don't we spend time actualizing the great ideas Daktari Ndemo gave us a few weeks back especially examples of how much we loose in forex when importing tomatoes whereas ours lot in shambas. No wonder the shilling is loosing so much as a result
We all know how the west is declining economically despite their being up there in ICT. some one from there told me the other day that, they now need to go back to basics of producing real goods and services in agriculture so that they have something REAL to export ELSE they will soon start receiving food aid from the BRICS
Kenya should learn something from this.
my 2 cents
Charles Nduati
CHARLES N. NDUATI GENERAL MANAGER JKUAT ENTERPRISES LTD JOMO KENYATTA UNIVERSITY OF AGRICULTURE AND TECHNOLOGY JUJA MAIN CAMPUS, THIKA P. O. BOX 79324-00200 NAIROBI, KENYA TEL: 254-067-52420 OR 254-067-52711 FAX: 254-067-52438 MOBILE:254-722728815 EMIAL:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk,cnduati@gmail.com, bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke www.jkuat.ac.ke ------------------------------ *From:* Kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> *To:* charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 20:57
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hello,
This debate keeps getting interesting with time especially when those castigating the poor grammar done by others get caught committing the same sin they are trying to uproot. Close to 90% of the posts that have come stand guilty of one or two counts of grammatical crimes. All the same we might argue that this forum is not a newspaper and hence escape without injuries. But whether we admit it or not, there is a problem that pertains to the use of the queen's language not just within the newspaper circles but across the board. From a general perspective I have discovered that very few of our college students can express themselves in English without punctuating their statements with the "as in" and "you know" phrases at every pause.
So, what could be the real issue? When I was growing up in the village, I attended a primary school where the English subject was taught by two teachers with fundamentally opposing characteristics. One of the teachers who I initially admired taught us the queens language in vernacular. When he attempted to use the official language, he simply replaced the mother tongue with English words ending up with chaotic statements like "come here both of you two naughty boys, can you sleep down so that I beat you immediately"... and so on.
The other teacher, a certain Mr Macharia was a stickler to proper spelling, pronunciation, intonation and even vocal chord movements. He was very emphatic against reasoning in mother-tongue if one had the intention of conveying the message in English. At the early stages I found him too strict but over time I was able to adjust and I believe since then I do speak some thing close to English whenever I want to. I still revere him to date.
The point is that no matter how much we get disillusioned the cure lies at the basic levels of learning. As they say the rules of language are internalized in the early years of life. Were it not for the intervention of Mr. Macharia, you can rest assured that I would have done this post in a mother-tongue concoction and maybe you would have needed somebody to do the translation. For those within my age and beyond who never had the luxury of such tutorship as I received and may want to become editors in the language, I feel sorry that age may not be very kind after a certain thresh-hold. But you can use this little advise to caution the younger ones within your reach who may possibly keep the newsprint industry going when the likes of Philip Ochieng and Bw. Gaitho have left the ring.
Kamotho
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt < andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
'Morgage' in a big fat headline, too.
More wonderful internet things: 'spelt' looked odd to me for a second, so I looked it up. 'spelled' and 'spelt' can be used interchangeably according to this page (and several other sources): http://www.grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/
The website also has useful style advice and a bunch of fun quizzes on commonly confused words, British vs American English, homophones and irregular plural nouns: http://www.grammarist.com/grammarist-quizzes/
On 11 October 2011 18:47, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Hi Andrea,
You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.
Regards
PS. Thanks for the correction
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification.
Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends.
All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree.
I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :)
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
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Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Andrea, Robert meant to say, "you are digressing", in his earlier email. Hope you won't read offense into it... Harry _____ From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:18 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Andrea, You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one. I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain, "hit where it hurts most" Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Robert, Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office. However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly. My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that. Andrea On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Andrea, What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same. A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology. That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media. "Think global but act local" Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _____ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates. On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote: I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this). Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong.... Enough said.... Nyaki _____ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke @lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or. ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40rati o-magazine.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php> events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u k The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business <http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php> events
Nah. I'm just letting my inner copy editor run wild. It was also a reminder to look up 'transitive verb' :) On 11 October 2011 16:27, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> wrote:
** Andrea,
Robert meant to say, "you are digressing", in his earlier email. Hope you won't read offense into it...
Harry
------------------------------ *From:* kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *robert yawe *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:18 PM *To:* harry@comtelsys.co.ke
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Andrea,
You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain,
"hit where it hurts most"
Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56 *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Robert,
Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office.
However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.
My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
Andrea
On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing. At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
"Think global but act local"
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ------------------------------ *From:* Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> *To:* robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates.
On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this).
Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
Enough said....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry
________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke[kictanet-bounces+victor= article19.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [ jratemo@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16 To: Victor Bwire Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto: bitange@jambo.co.ke>> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com>> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com<mailto: Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com<mailto: jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Listers, Who remembers this discussion about 3 years ago? Since then there has been a huge improvement in the media. Today something stuck out and it was like déjà vu. Read hard copy of Nation p. 64 or back page to be more specific on the story of 'Why Kimemia lost key Post' (my comment is completely unrelated to the content of the story)..I draw you to the paragraph 5...."...in charge of both the Pubic Service and NSAC". Fast forward to my email in 2011. People suggested I was being very harsh then but here we go again, now in Kenya not in Tanzania like in 2011. However, kudos to Nation for editing it in your online edition which has wider reach in the diaspora. Have a good weekend, Nyaki On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:27 AM, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote: I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing. He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on your computer (the class already had experience in this). Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong.... Enough said.... Nyaki ________________________________ From: Victor Bwire <victor@article19.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now. Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism including Government ones- you will feel sorry ________________________________
James, The PS has a point and I am not disputing yours either but I would simply respond to your email below that generalizations is what has got us where we are. Specificity can help more..... Nyaki ________________________________ From: james ratemo <jratemo@gmail.com> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com or ratemoj@hotmail.com Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi all, I would personally blame it on cost-cutting. We have journalism and English experts in newsrooms, but they have too much on their hands to spot the most obvious and embarrassing mistakes in our publications. Mistakes can be costly. Remember during Amini's time in Uganda, the dictator had criticised a female MP, and so the paper splashed the following morning "Amini rapes MP" when he meant "RAPS". I hear, he was killed at down as he brushed his teeth in his house. LUKE M <em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a> ________________________________ From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> To: luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint James, The PS has a point and I am not disputing yours either but I would simply respond to your email below that generalizations is what has got us where we are. Specificity can help more..... Nyaki ________________________________ From: james ratemo <jratemo@gmail.com> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com or ratemoj@hotmail.com Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmulunda%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Lets just say writing articles ... is like writing software. If you are writing alot of code you are going to make mistakes ... If you write one article a month, you are less likely to make mistakes than if you are expected to write 30 just like ... if you are writing alot of code, there are going to be mistakes ... What we are doing with this grammer thread is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" :) Ps: When served a plate of rice in Kenya and you see one maggot - what do you do ? Throw out the plate or remove the maggot silently and engage If there are any typos ... pole sana :) On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:36 AM, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all, I would personally blame it on cost-cutting. We have journalism and English experts in newsrooms, but they have too much on their hands to spot the most obvious and embarrassing mistakes in our publications.
Mistakes can be costly. Remember during Amini's time in Uganda, the dictator had criticised a female MP, and so the paper splashed the following morning "Amini rapes MP" when he meant "RAPS". I hear, he was killed at down as he brushed his teeth in his house.
LUKE M
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2011 10:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
James, The PS has a point and I am not disputing yours either but I would simply respond to your email below that generalizations is what has got us where we are. Specificity can help more.....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* james ratemo <jratemo@gmail.com> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:16 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com <Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com <jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com <http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I don't think that argument really works. You need to look at the number of mistakes per article, i.e. the relative number of mistakes you make. And more practice = fewer mistakes, relatively speaking (I hope). We're talking about the publishing industry here: it's job is to produce good writing. Part of quality publishing is that you have a quality control process (as you would, I imagine, with software development and other things that you produce professionally). A lot of the journalists are taught by the 'misclennous' teachers. And the quality control process is seriously lacking, not just with spelling, language and punctuation. An entertainment pullout should not talk about Meryl Steep, or write that Eve (the rapper) dated Gambia's president's son. You could argue that it doesn't matter whether someone writes 'misclennous' or not because we can figure out that it's meant to say 'miscellaneous', but I wonder how carefully done the content is, and what sort of quality control process exists at all. I'd imagine if you do coding, or if you run a firm that develops software, you want to deliver a good product and keep mistakes minimal. That ambition should be no different for professional writer But ultimately it depends where you set your own quality standards: whether you're fine with maggots turning up, or whether you set up processes that will eliminate (or at the very least control) the appearance of maggots. Do you go for the lowest common denominator or do you set your sights a bit higher? On 10 October 2011 10:54, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say writing articles ... is like writing software.
If you are writing alot of code you are going to make mistakes ...
If you write one article a month, you are less likely to make mistakes than if you are expected to write 30
just like ... if you are writing alot of code, there are going to be mistakes ...
What we are doing with this grammer thread is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"
:)
Ps: When served a plate of rice in Kenya and you see one maggot - what do you do ?
Throw out the plate or remove the maggot silently and engage
If there are any typos ... pole sana :)
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:36 AM, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all, I would personally blame it on cost-cutting. We have journalism and English experts in newsrooms, but they have too much on their hands to spot the most obvious and embarrassing mistakes in our publications.
Mistakes can be costly. Remember during Amini's time in Uganda, the dictator had criticised a female MP, and so the paper splashed the following morning "Amini rapes MP" when he meant "RAPS". I hear, he was killed at down as he brushed his teeth in his house.
LUKE M
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
------------------------------ *From:* Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> *To:* luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2011 10:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
James, The PS has a point and I am not disputing yours either but I would simply respond to your email below that generalizations is what has got us where we are. Specificity can help more.....
Nyaki
------------------------------ *From:* james ratemo <jratemo@gmail.com> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:16 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com <Emaili-jratemo@standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj@hotmail.com <jamrats2001@yahoo.com> Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com <http://www.ictcradle.com/>. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmulunda%40yahoo.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/andreabohnstedt> Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/careers/index.php> Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events<http://www.ratio-magazine.com/businessevents/index.php>
Andrea...I totally second you....and while we are at it. Kenya proudly markets itself as a BPO destination with great English speakers and writers. The accent thing is an added bonus. Why compromise on what we believe we are capable of? Why? ________________________________ From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint I don't think that argument really works. You need to look at the number of mistakes per article, i.e. the relative number of mistakes you make. And more practice = fewer mistakes, relatively speaking (I hope). We're talking about the publishing industry here: it's job is to produce good writing. Part of quality publishing is that you have a quality control process (as you would, I imagine, with software development and other things that you produce professionally). A lot of the journalists are taught by the 'misclennous' teachers. And the quality control process is seriously lacking, not just with spelling, language and punctuation. An entertainment pullout should not talk about Meryl Steep, or write that Eve (the rapper) dated Gambia's president's son. You could argue that it doesn't matter whether someone writes 'misclennous' or not because we can figure out that it's meant to say 'miscellaneous', but I wonder how carefully done the content is, and what sort of quality control process exists at all. I'd imagine if you do coding, or if you run a firm that develops software, you want to deliver a good product and keep mistakes minimal. That ambition should be no different for professional writer But ultimately it depends where you set your own quality standards: whether you're fine with maggots turning up, or whether you set up processes that will eliminate (or at the very least control) the appearance of maggots. Do you go for the lowest common denominator or do you set your sights a bit higher? On 10 October 2011 10:54, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote: Lets just say writing articles ... is like writing software.
If you are writing alot of code you are going to make mistakes ...
If you write one article a month, you are less likely to make mistakes than if you are expected to write 30
just like ... if you are writing alot of code, there are going to be mistakes ...
What we are doing with this grammer thread is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"
:)
Ps: When served a plate of rice in Kenya and you see one maggot - what do you do ?
Throw out the plate or remove the maggot silently and engage
If there are any typos ... pole sana :)
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:36 AM, luke mulunda <lmulunda@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would personally blame it on cost-cutting. We have journalism and English experts in newsrooms, but they have too much on their hands to spot the most obvious and embarrassing mistakes in our publications.
Mistakes can be costly. Remember during Amini's time in Uganda, the dictator had criticised a female MP, and so the paper splashed the following morning "Amini rapes MP" when he meant "RAPS". I hear, he was killed at down as he brushed his teeth in his house.
LUKE M
<em style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 191);"><strong><font size="3"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">WWW.SMARTBIZAFRICA.COM Africa's No.1 Online Business Magazine ...For Investors, Entrepreneurs, Managers, Marketers, CEOs, IT Experts, HR & Finance Managers and Students.... Plus Stocks and Business News and Career Guidance</span></font></strong></em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.smartbizafrica.com/"></a>
________________________________ From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> To: luke <lmulunda@yahoo.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
James, The PS has a point and I am not disputing yours either but I would simply respond to your email below that generalizations is what has got us where we are. Specificity can help more.....
Nyaki
________________________________ From: james ratemo <jratemo@gmail.com> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jratemo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- James Ratemo Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter Nation Media Group, P.O Box 49010-00100, Nairobi Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649 Email: jratemo@ke.nationmedia.com or ratemoj@hotmail.com Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com. Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo Skype account:ratemoj My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation.
The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Andrea Bohnstedt Publisher +254 720 960 322 www.ratio-magazine.com Find/post East Africa careers Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/elizaslider%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously. You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language. There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ... There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society. This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I agree Daktari we have very bad manners, i was going to the Village on Saturday morning and got to some diversion in Kericho, i saw people driving through and was curious getting there i was asked if i have a pass from the DC of which i said i dont and was told to follow some trucks for a 30 KM agonizing stretch that could rip apart a car (poor workmanship), as i was reversing another driver told me that the pass ni kitu kidogo, it made me reverse even faster, what a shame! i felt like calling that DC, this culture of shortcuts will cost this country a great future. I remember meeting by Uncle at Telposta towers on a restaurant 5 years ago and he stopped reading a newspaper since it had two many grammatical mistakes, i think its an issue of ethics and rewarding mediocirty On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:08 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously.
You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language.
There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ...
There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society.
This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Sema Barrack ... I know that diversion Now tell us ... did you take the long route ? Thanks On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
I agree Daktari we have very bad manners, i was going to the Village on Saturday morning and got to some diversion in Kericho, i saw people driving through and was curious getting there i was asked if i have a pass from the DC of which i said i dont and was told to follow some trucks for a 30 KM agonizing stretch that could rip apart a car (poor workmanship), as i was reversing another driver told me that the pass ni kitu kidogo, it made me reverse even faster, what a shame! i felt like calling that DC, this culture of shortcuts will cost this country a great future. I remember meeting by Uncle at Telposta towers on a restaurant 5 years ago and he stopped reading a newspaper since it had two many grammatical mistakes, i think its an issue of ethics and rewarding mediocirty
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:08 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously.
You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language.
There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ...
There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society.
This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Yes Liko, i took the long route, trying to adapt to the values on vision 2030 :-) though it was painfull. Kind Regards On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
Sema Barrack ... I know that diversion
Now tell us ... did you take the long route ?
Thanks
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
I agree Daktari we have very bad manners, i was going to the Village on Saturday morning and got to some diversion in Kericho, i saw people driving through and was curious getting there i was asked if i have a pass from the DC of which i said i dont and was told to follow some trucks for a 30 KM agonizing stretch that could rip apart a car (poor workmanship), as i was reversing another driver told me that the pass ni kitu kidogo, it made me reverse even faster, what a shame! i felt like calling that DC, this culture of shortcuts will cost this country a great future. I remember meeting by Uncle at Telposta towers on a restaurant 5 years ago and he stopped reading a newspaper since it had two many grammatical mistakes, i think its an issue of ethics and rewarding mediocirty
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:08 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously.
You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language.
There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ...
There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society.
This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Spot on Dr.Ndemo. I share your sentiments. There is just no more pride in doing a good thorough job, irrespective of what job it is.Neither are many employers picking the right person for the job! Values, values, values. That is all we need to get back to. Gilda Quoting bitange@jambo.co.ke:
Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously.
You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language.
There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ...
There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society.
This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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I want to agree with Dr. Ndemo. Taking work seriously is important. Again, certainly, there are many good, top notch editors, who have no chance of being hired locally because of all the considerations we know. I know a friend of mine in Rwanda who is in the process of poaching/engaging some of them and I will actively help some of our colleagues to lin up with him and other openings in the region if they are not appreciated at home. There are many people who take language casually. It requires sustained improvement to master the language-English or any other. Oloo Janak. ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: williamjanak@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Catherine, I think we are approaching this discussion the wrong way. If you have been employed to be an Editor, then be the best in the World. You simply have to take the job seriously. You need to watch Michael Jackson's "This is it" in order to understand what taking your job seriously mean. You will begin to understand why he was good. Similarly, we can have good editors. The Indians have succeeded in this yet we think we have better grasp of the language. There are good Editors out there but they are kept out of the job either because they do not know someone or have no money to bribe and get the job. Do we know how the hiring is done? For us to succeed we must first accept our inadequacies, our rotten habbits, our biases, our tribalist tendancies, our ... There is no sabstitute for hard work and transparency. If we embrace these simple rules, our publications will change over night. It is time we accept that governance issue for this country does not only affect the Government. We must get rid of it from our society. This is the root cause of our bad image in everything we do. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:02:00 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Reply-To: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/williamjanak%40yahoo.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ahh PS Ndemo: I'm going to enjoy reading the responses to this... The quality of the writing in just about all of our daily newspapers is atrocious. I have seen the same person's name spelled differently in different stories in the same edition. Our president was recently called 'Mwaki Kibaki' -- how can you screw up the president's name? Our journalists, copy editors, fact-checkers all need to raise their game. As you mention, there is no shortage of fluent English speakers in Kenya so the recruiting/HR folks also need a talking to... Many Kenyans write and write well, I read their work everyday on blogs, on Facebook and other social media, and yes, in some print media too. At the risk of aging myself, I recall a time when our publications had stellar writing. Let's get back there. -Mw -----Original Message----- From: bitange@jambo.co.ke Sender: kictanet-bounces+mwangi.wamae=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:11:55 To: <mwangi.wamae@gmail.com> Reply-To: bitange@jambo.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangi.wamae%40gmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi, The deterioration of the use of language in the local print media has been going on for over 10 years for some reason the more advanced the equipment in use the worse the output. Sometimes while reading the dailies I am forced to keep looking at the mast head to make sure that I did not accidentally pick up one of those alternative press newspapers. Apart from computers having spell and grammar checkers what is the work of editors at the various media houses, from the level they have fallen I suspect that the executives either do not read the papers or their proficiency with the english language is suspect. The column by Ochieng in the Saturday Nation needs to be made a must read for all the staff at the Nation with a quiz on the raised issue every subsequent monday. Let the media not raise the issue of costs as they can quite cost effectively outsource the editing function to university students who can work from wherever they are, this could be a good application for KENETs 1 GB links. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 23:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Thanks for bringing this out Bw PS. The TV stations also need to do something about poor English pronounciations by some of their newsreaders. It is common to hear, for example, "wrecked havoc" instead of "wreaked havoc". Other simple words such as "cap" for the kofia which is supposed to be pronounced same as "cup" is instead pronounced "cape" as in sheng. Another example is "liaise" which phonetically should be pronounced li-ye-z but the newsreaders seem to have other ideas. There are millions of examples, so to speak. The worst part is that listeners and school children pick up these wrong prounciations and everything gets propagated. In the age of ICT perhaps someone can point out to the newsreaders that there are websites (e.g. Dictionary.com) that can help them with prounciation. Waudo On Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Many of us sound / speak "Kenyan" but when need be we can "sound" British... This helps... Improve Your Pronunciation with BBC Learning English http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdRmGvmeY1U On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com>wrote:
Thanks for bringing this out Bw PS. The TV stations also need to do something about poor English pronounciations by some of their newsreaders. It is common to hear, for example, "wrecked havoc" instead of "wreaked havoc". Other simple words such as "cap" for the kofia which is supposed to be pronounced same as "cup" is instead pronounced "cape" as in sheng. Another example is "liaise" which phonetically should be pronounced li-ye-z but the newsreaders seem to have other ideas. There are millions of examples, so to speak. The worst part is that listeners and school children pick up these wrong prounciations and everything gets propagated. In the age of ICT perhaps someone can point out to the newsreaders that there are websites (e.g. Dictionary.com) that can help them with prounciation.
Waudo
On Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
While still at the issue/topic of grammatical errors, here's something from www.cio.co.ke website: "InMobi, an independent mobile advertising network held an adverting and publishing workshop at Sankara, Nairobi. The event which aimed at show the potential of mobile advertising media and advertising professionals, kicked off with a presentation of mobile phones as an advertising media and what their future entails in terms of market reach by iHub Nairobi research show that mobile penetration in Kenya is now at 62%, this therefore, provides an excellent opportunity for advertisers to take advantage of this advertising platform. InMobi mobile insights indicate that mobile advertising will soon cannibalize other forms of advertising such as print media and online platforms. This trend is being fanned by diffusion drivers like Google who are enabling local players’ access internet via their mobile phones and other mobile devices. Currently there are over 65 million mobile subscribers in Africa, who access internet through their phones; this means advertisers will get more impressions on mobile web. Nyong'o pointed out that forms of mobile adverts such as landing pages, download coupons, videos and leads are interesting and attract potential customers more compared to the normal fixed SMS based adverts. InMobi anticipates that Africa will have over 12,7500,000 smartphones by 2015, as the mobile ecosystem comes together. “Huawei will be launching a new version of Ideos smartphone in Nigeria, contributing to the growing number of smartphones in Africa”, says Nyong'o. Affordable prices have been a major contributor to the adoption of smartphones and tablets in Africa. This should help businesses aggressively pursue their targets through mobile web." Any editors...??? Michael Ouma Journalist Kenya Tel:+254-725-537823 "Do not go where the path may lead, but go instead where there is no path and leave a trail," - Ralph Waldo Emerson
________________________________ From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> To: benomnta@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Thanks for bringing this out Bw PS. The TV stations also need to do something about poor English pronounciations by some of their newsreaders. It is common to hear, for example, "wrecked havoc" instead of "wreaked havoc". Other simple words such as "cap" for the kofia which is supposed to be pronounced same as "cup" is instead pronounced "cape" as in sheng. Another example is "liaise" which phonetically should be pronounced li-ye-z but the newsreaders seem to have other ideas. There are millions of examples, so to speak. The worst part is that listeners and school children pick up these wrong prounciations and everything gets propagated. In the age of ICT perhaps someone can point out to the newsreaders that there are websites (e.g. Dictionary.com) that can help them with prounciation.
Waudo
On Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
________________________________ From: waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> To: benomnta@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
Thanks for bringing this out Bw PS. The TV stations also need to do something about poor English pronounciations by some of their newsreaders. It is common to hear, for example, "wrecked havoc" instead of "wreaked havoc". Other simple words such as "cap" for the kofia which is supposed to be pronounced same as "cup" is instead pronounced "cape" as in sheng. Another example is "liaise" which phonetically should be pronounced li-ye-z but the newsreaders seem to have other ideas. There are millions of examples, so to speak. The worst part is that listeners and school children pick up these wrong prounciations and everything gets propagated. In the age of ICT perhaps someone can point out to the newsreaders that there are websites (e.g. Dictionary.com) that can help them with prounciation.
Waudo
On Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online
Dear Mr. Ouma, The issue of discussion covers all forms of print and electronic media so by picking on CIO, of which I am a columnist, is an attempt at throwing in a red herring. Your response is a reflection of what has happened to the media, imagine a team from Chine arrives in Kenya to look for organisations to provide them with services to produce english language manuals for their various products while at the airport they buy a copy of one of our dailies . . . . Now you understand why we are still a long way from being the destination of choice for such outsourcing activities and all because we have "reporters" who cannot write english. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Michael Ouma <benomnta@yahoo.com> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2011, 11:48 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint While still at the issue/topic of grammatical errors, here's something from www.cio.co.ke website: "InMobi, an independent mobile advertising network held an adverting and publishing workshop at Sankara, Nairobi. The event which aimed at show the potential of mobile advertising media and advertising professionals, kicked off with a presentation of mobile phones as an advertising media and what their future entails in terms of market reach by iHub Nairobi research show that mobile penetration in Kenya is now at 62%, this therefore, provides an excellent opportunity for advertisers to take advantage of this advertising platform. InMobi mobile insights indicate that mobile advertising will soon cannibalize other forms of advertising such as print media and online platforms. This trend is being fanned by diffusion drivers like Google who are enabling local players’ access internet via their mobile phones and other mobile devices. Currently there are over 65 million mobile subscribers in Africa, who access internet through their phones; this means advertisers will get more impressions on mobile web. Nyong'o pointed out that forms of mobile adverts such as landing pages, download coupons, videos and leads are interesting and attract potential customers more compared to the normal fixed SMS based adverts. InMobi anticipates that Africa will have over 12,7500,000 smartphones by 2015, as the mobile ecosystem comes together. “Huawei will be launching a new version of Ideos smartphone in Nigeria, contributing to the growing number of smartphones in Africa”, says Nyong'o. Affordable prices have been a major contributor to the adoption of smartphones and tablets in Africa. This should help businesses aggressively pursue their targets through mobile web." Any editors...??? Michael Ouma Journalist Kenya Tel:+254-725-537823 "Do not go where the path may lead, but go instead where there is no path and leave a trail," - Ralph Waldo Emerson that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I have also noted lots of typing errors on the scrolling text especially during 9.00 PM news on most of them. On 10/4/2011 11:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga<ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To:<bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Listers, In my view this is but a reflection of how standards across the board have fallen. There is simply no pride in a good job done- casualness is the order of the day.'It can pass' - so it is said. We need to get back to the thoroughness that once was- ACROSS THE BOARD. Gilda Quoting James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com>:
I have also noted lots of typing errors on the scrolling text especially during 9.00 PM news on most of them.
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have
On 10/4/2011 11:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote: thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga<ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To:<bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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On a lighter note, we probably will need to be a little more considerate with our brothers and sisters - indeed all of us who subscribe to 'Her Majesty's language' as our second, Third , Fourth language etcetra. Let alone that each one had to go through some compulsory language take up as part of their curriculum in High School. And yes 'English' was a 'must take'. You see, it is always stated that this great language was visited upon us on Her Majesty's ship from a foreign land, hence from the word go, it has been alien to some of us, if not most. Indeed, we also will be pleased about the giant strides we have made in embedding it on our national landscape, and in the process raising amongst us many of those who have a remarkable mastery and flowing command of this strange dialect. Maybe, it is time to have a spoken and written English Language empowerment centre, I would wish to enrol. Just on a light note. Harry -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of godera@skyweb.co.ke Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:02 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Listers, In my view this is but a reflection of how standards across the board have fallen. There is simply no pride in a good job done- casualness is the order of the day.'It can pass' - so it is said. We need to get back to the thoroughness that once was- ACROSS THE BOARD. Gilda Quoting James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com>:
I have also noted lots of typing errors on the scrolling text especially during 9.00 PM news on most of them.
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have
On 10/4/2011 11:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote: thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga<ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To:<bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dear Harry, You certainly have your first classmate in me when the centre opens:-) I wish to add my voice to this thread.I have taught English in high school and in a teacher training college in Kenya.I do agree with those of us who argue that there may be a problem with the 'teaching'. In the typically 'instructivist' system that our curriculum propagates, one might easily deduce that if a teacher is bad, then the student can only be bad. If a teacher cannot score 350 points in an exam, then a student can only score lower. We know that typically, many students do better than their teachers would, and that a bad teacher of any subject is least helpful to a weak student. With the multiple sources of information increasingly becoming available through ICT, and with the right information literacy skills imparted, students can be expected do better than their teachers in a number of tasks. If we must keep the teacher as the 'fountain of knowledge', then we must raise the cut-off and get only the best candidates into teaching positions. This has its challenges. If it is the case that ICTs are gradually changing the role of the teacher to being what I call 'the learner in charge', then we will need to dedicate our attention and resources to preparing pre-service and 're-tooling' in-service teachers for this new and extremely demanding role. This calls for an understanding of the place of ICT in teaching and teacher education in the first instance, and resource allocation for sustained teacher professional development programmes. That's my take! Betty Obura Ogange, PhD Director, eLearning Centre Maseno University ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke> To: ogange@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint On a lighter note, we probably will need to be a little more considerate with our brothers and sisters - indeed all of us who subscribe to 'Her Majesty's language' as our second, Third , Fourth language etcetra. Let alone that each one had to go through some compulsory language take up as part of their curriculum in High School. And yes 'English' was a 'must take'. You see, it is always stated that this great language was visited upon us on Her Majesty's ship from a foreign land, hence from the word go, it has been alien to some of us, if not most. Indeed, we also will be pleased about the giant strides we have made in embedding it on our national landscape, and in the process raising amongst us many of those who have a remarkable mastery and flowing command of this strange dialect. Maybe, it is time to have a spoken and written English Language empowerment centre, I would wish to enrol. Just on a light note. Harry -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of godera@skyweb.co.ke Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:02 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint Listers, In my view this is but a reflection of how standards across the board have fallen. There is simply no pride in a good job done- casualness is the order of the day.'It can pass' - so it is said. We need to get back to the thoroughness that once was- ACROSS THE BOARD. Gilda Quoting James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com>:
I have also noted lots of typing errors on the scrolling text especially during 9.00 PM news on most of them.
All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors. At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors? We have
On 10/4/2011 11:11 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote: thousands of English majors without jobs. It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs. As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga<ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57 To:<bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40comtelsys.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ogange%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (28)
-
Agosta Liko -
Andrea Bohnstedt -
Barrack Otieno -
Betty Ogange -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Catherine Adeya -
charles nduati -
Cleophas Barmasai -
Francis Hook -
godera＠skyweb.co.ke -
Grace Githaiga -
Harry Delano -
info＠alyhussein.com -
James Kagwe -
James Mbugua -
james ratemo -
John Kariuki -
Kamotho Njenga -
Kipkemoi arap Kirui -
luke mulunda -
Michael Ouma -
Mwangi James Wamae -
robert yawe -
S.M. Muraya -
Sam Aguyo -
Victor Bwire -
waudo siganga -
william janak