Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
My dear Brian, May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides. Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me. Cheers, Florence Etta Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics) Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote: Daktari, I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only] The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions. You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others. Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani. Bill On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed. We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did. Asante. Ndemo. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit. Brian, I vote no to this. Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com<Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> *
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears. The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression? If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs. Please desist from these kind of racial slurs.... Brian Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk
wrote: My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all,
We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think. A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed. Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears.
The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression?
If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs.
Please desist from these kind of racial slurs....
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta < <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email: <Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> florence.etta@gmail.com*
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian@caret.net>brian@caret.net> To: <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk>feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, < <bitange@jambo.co.ke> bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com
Dear all, The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya.... Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent? Wainaina On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears.
The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression?
If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs.
Please desist from these kind of racial slurs....
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <<feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email: <Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> florence.etta@gmail.com*
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian@caret.net>brian@caret.net> To: <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk>feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, < <bitange@jambo.co.ke> bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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Wainaina, To add to your list: the anti-foreigner attacks in Europe, in the US... is there a bigger picture evolving across those continents? Google search "european xenophobia" and you'll see. Have you tried being a Turk in Germany, an Algerian/Moroccon in France, a Mexican in the US, an immigrant in Switzerland? Remember Jorg Haider in Austria, Le Penn in France? It is in the long-term interest of foreign investors (whether primarily of labor as in the cases above, or of cash/technology as in the Kenyan situation) to comprehensively address some of the issues raised in this forum. I for one wouldn't be comfortable knowing my investments might unravel in the near/far future due to feelings of encroachment by the local populace, however misplaced one may think those feelings are. Saidi On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya....
Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent?
Wainaina
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears. The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression? If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs. Please desist from these kind of racial slurs.... Brian
Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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Wainaina et al Like the Kenyan Pundit says: She would her daughter to find a home in Africa. With the way things are going there will be no place since everything will be foreign owned and policies will be made in Whitehall, The Hague, Bonn, Whitehouse or wherever else these guys from. Joe On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:30 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:
Wainaina,
To add to your list: the anti-foreigner attacks in Europe, in the US... is there a bigger picture evolving across those continents?
Google search "european xenophobia" and you'll see.
Have you tried being a Turk in Germany, an Algerian/Moroccon in France, a Mexican in the US, an immigrant in Switzerland? Remember Jorg Haider in Austria, Le Penn in France?
It is in the long-term interest of foreign investors (whether primarily of labor as in the cases above, or of cash/technology as in the Kenyan situation) to comprehensively address some of the issues raised in this forum. I for one wouldn't be comfortable knowing my investments might unravel in the near/far future due to feelings of encroachment by the local populace, however misplaced one may think those feelings are.
Saidi
Dear all,
The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya....
Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent?
Wainaina
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or
ask
those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com
wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even
slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears. The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression? If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs. Please desist from these kind of racial slurs.... Brian
Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta < feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum
since
I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com<Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com>
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress
sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in
industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote: the their the through
my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity
in
our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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I'd like to attend the meet but unfortuantely will be away till early september. Hopefully we should be able to read about the meet. This foreigner bashing issue is getting boring, un-realistic and some posts seem to be more about dreamers ( or even politics ) than the actual matter.
From a technology and ICT policy view :
1) What can kenya export to the region/rest of the world in ICT? If its man-power, there's a glut of highly skilled and experienced ICT professionals worldwide. Unless they want to work for less. 2) Has kenya come up with some super ICT product/technology that is competitive globally? 3) When was the last time kenya exported a simple 4 pin micro-processor ( that was designed in the 1950's )? 4) Has any smart kenyan written and exported a simple ERP system, let alone an operating system? The list is end less. A simple example : South Africa gave africa its open source name i.e Linux Ubuntu ( Mark Shuttleworth – Founder, Ubuntu ). Where is a kenyan linux ? At best, most kenyans download and re-configure this Ubuntu. Until we keep importing ICT technologies, we are stuck with the brains that come with them. To protect local ICT industry and ICT jobs, where is the industry itself? What are we protecting? As a start, can anyone please provide export details of kenya's ICT sector? Rgds, Aki.
Aki, Fortunate or unfortunate policy and politics go hand in hand, if politicians do not follow through by implementing policy on behalf of the public that they serve, then policy itself is a non starter. I would be hesistant before painting with a broad brush posts you allude to as belonging to dreamers, despite differences in opinion, most on this forum tend to speak from first hand experiences. Some of the initatives reffered to here are real examples, did not come up overnight, but have been in the works for a number of years now and have hit policy stumbling blocks. Sometimes policy reformulation has to encompass more than just one sector's policy, one may have the best text book ICT policy taxpayers can fund and then go on to encounter obstacles with investment and planning policies or with the public's employees who on their own volition may not report to work to formulate a policy into law: http://www.centralbank.go.ke/downloads/media_releases/Kenyanabroad.pdf # 1, Due to brain drain, there are many Kenyan ICT professionals residing outside the country, a thriving and competitive local ICT industry is likely to reverse this with time, new market entrants such as Google, new infrastructure ie undersea cables are likely to make the ICT industry more attractive, salaries in ICT outside of Kenya are comparatively and significantly higher. Rather than export manpower, the industry should be seeking it as intellectual capital is key to ICT development. #2, If Mpesa counts, then it is one such technology, however it has been revealed in some quarters that this is Vodafone's IP. Even if it didn't count as Kenyan owned, it had its first successful runs within the country and is now being "exported" elsewhere. #4 Skunkworks would be a good resource for this question, there are many talented local developers some of whom have come up with complex inhouse applications. Given that these are likely to be inhouse or specific to a project/client the likelihood of any repeatable export is low. Kenyan Linux? the best stab at this would be at our universities, however are our universities equipped and funded well enough to carry out major R&D activity? We have a long way before we can competitively engage in ICT exports, what would be wrong with offering incentives for investors to set up a chip manufacturing facility on condition that it is done on the basis of a JV with support included for part local ownership? Those conditions are the "protections" that are being advocated atleast from my perspective, protectionism does not necessarily mean "lock out". On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:36 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I'd like to attend the meet but unfortuantely will be away till early september. Hopefully we should be able to read about the meet.
This foreigner bashing issue is getting boring, un-realistic and some posts seem to be more about dreamers ( or even politics ) than the actual matter. From a technology and ICT policy view :
1) What can kenya export to the region/rest of the world in ICT? If its man-power, there's a glut of highly skilled and experienced ICT professionals worldwide. Unless they want to work for less.
2) Has kenya come up with some super ICT product/technology that is competitive globally?
3) When was the last time kenya exported a simple 4 pin micro-processor ( that was designed in the 1950's )?
4) Has any smart kenyan written and exported a simple ERP system, let alone an operating system?
The list is end less.
A simple example : South Africa gave africa its open source name i.e Linux Ubuntu ( Mark Shuttleworth – Founder, Ubuntu ). Where is a kenyan linux ? At best, most kenyans download and re-configure this Ubuntu.
Until we keep importing ICT technologies, we are stuck with the brains that come with them. To protect local ICT industry and ICT jobs, where is the industry itself? What are we protecting?
As a start, can anyone please provide export details of kenya's ICT sector?
Rgds,
Aki.
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I think what some are fighting as "foreign" invasion of our economy is the result of globalisation. At the end of the day, businesses look and see - where can we achieve growth? where will we have a faster return on investment? are the conditions suitable in this particular place? can we make more profits there? The fact that Kenya appeals to some investors should actually be seen as a good thing. I dont think (i stand to be corrected) that any foreigner will invest and deploy their resources for the love of Kenya. They do so because it is a viable investment option. 5-10 years down the line, we then have this debate. That said, i think we should also develop ourselves as Kenyans to create capacities and synergies that will ensure we have "some" muscle as regards to investing into our economy. Suggested reading: "The world is flat" - Thomas Friedman. Titus Njoroge.
Wainaina, Rising fuel and food prices, struggling economies, policy obstacles that make it difficult for locals to become new market entrants while non-locals seem to get in "easily" are factors fueling some of the sentiments. Far from extreme positions, attacking persons ie foreigners rather than addressing policies and frameworks is counterproductive and futile. (take the case of Zim and SA for example, are they better off today than they were a few months ago?). While we can't correct the past, we can plan for the future. FDI in whatever form including intellectual is necessary to a country's economy be it in the developing or developed world. For instance, were it not for FDI, Citibank might have collapsed or become a takeover target. What's needed are policies to ensure that locals have more than just a token stake in the country's national cake to ensure that FDI also benefits both locals (not just salaries but also ownership) and outsiders substantially. Otherwise the old adage "a hungry man is an angry man" is likely to manifest itself in forms of protest, some civil and others uncivil. We should be appreciative of our international colleagues who contribute to and support the growth of our economic sectors, but we must also be willing through leadership to bring about policy changes that promote local ownership in the economy eg an AFC equivalent for the ICT sector. If our international colleagues are at the helm today, let us emulate them by working at being at the helm tomorrow or complement their efforts by showing initiative in policy and decision making. If we sit back then we will only have ourselves to blame if our non-local colleagues become the most prominent in sectors of our economy. On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya....
Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent?
Wainaina
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears.
The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression?
If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs.
Please desist from these kind of racial slurs....
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <<feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email: <Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> florence.etta@gmail.com*
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian@caret.net>brian@caret.net> To: <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk>feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, < <bitange@jambo.co.ke> bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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Those sound like valid points from Mike and Saidi....and have been viewed elsewhere as the expected challenges of globalisation. I would however be happier with a "pro-Kenyan" agenda rather than an "anti-foreigner" one..... A positive "Made in Kenya" clarion call would encourage quality improvement in local products, human resources etc etc so that we do not substitute foreign excellence with local mediocrity. Wainaina On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mike Theuri <mike.theuri@gmail.com> wrote:
Wainaina,
Rising fuel and food prices, struggling economies, policy obstacles that make it difficult for locals to become new market entrants while non-locals seem to get in "easily" are factors fueling some of the sentiments. Far from extreme positions, attacking persons ie foreigners rather than addressing policies and frameworks is counterproductive and futile. (take the case of Zim and SA for example, are they better off today than they were a few months ago?). While we can't correct the past, we can plan for the future.
FDI in whatever form including intellectual is necessary to a country's economy be it in the developing or developed world. For instance, were it not for FDI, Citibank might have collapsed or become a takeover target. What's needed are policies to ensure that locals have more than just a token stake in the country's national cake to ensure that FDI also benefits both locals (not just salaries but also ownership) and outsiders substantially. Otherwise the old adage "a hungry man is an angry man" is likely to manifest itself in forms of protest, some civil and others uncivil.
We should be appreciative of our international colleagues who contribute to and support the growth of our economic sectors, but we must also be willing through leadership to bring about policy changes that promote local ownership in the economy eg an AFC equivalent for the ICT sector. If our international colleagues are at the helm today, let us emulate them by working at being at the helm tomorrow or complement their efforts by showing initiative in policy and decision making. If we sit back then we will only have ourselves to blame if our non-local colleagues become the most prominent in sectors of our economy.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Wainaina Mungai < wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya....
Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent?
Wainaina
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears.
The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression?
If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs.
Please desist from these kind of racial slurs....
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <<feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email: <Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> florence.etta@gmail.com*
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian@caret.net>brian@caret.net> To: <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk>feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, < <bitange@jambo.co.ke> bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
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Members: I would like to draw your attention the story of TATA Trucks of India. TATA was born out of a joint venture between Mercedes and an India company. After MB decided that they could no longer in that marketplace they left a partner who had the technology knowhow and the skills that they had jointly created. When, like all foreign investors, MB decided it had had enough of India, TATA was able to take over and run with it. TATA today is buying the luxury group of FORD - all Volvos, Jaguars and Land Rovers will now have Indian accents. MB decided to try their luck in the US by buying Chrysler and we know how that ended. What I am asking is simply this - when all these foreign owned and run corporations decided to fold their tend what will we do as Kenyans? Will we be ready like TATA or we going to be left without the technology and knowhow like Chrysler? It is our life and fate we should be concerned and no what our foreign visitors are going to think about our survival instincts. Wake up people!! Joe On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
Those sound like valid points from Mike and Saidi....and have been viewed elsewhere as the expected challenges of globalisation. I would however be happier with a "pro-Kenyan" agenda rather than an "anti-foreigner" one.....
A positive "Made in Kenya" clarion call would encourage quality improvement in local products, human resources etc etc so that we do not substitute foreign excellence with local mediocrity.
Wainaina
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mike Theuri <mike.theuri@gmail.com> wrote:
Wainaina,
Rising fuel and food prices, struggling economies, policy obstacles that make it difficult for locals to become new market entrants while non-locals seem to get in "easily" are factors fueling some of the sentiments. Far from extreme positions, attacking persons ie foreigners rather than addressing policies and frameworks is counterproductive and futile. (take the case of Zim and SA for example, are they better off today than they were a few months ago?). While we can't correct the past, we can plan for the future.
FDI in whatever form including intellectual is necessary to a country's economy be it in the developing or developed world. For instance, were it not for FDI, Citibank might have collapsed or become a takeover target. What's needed are policies to ensure that locals have more than just a token stake in the country's national cake to ensure that FDI also benefits both locals (not just salaries but also ownership) and outsiders substantially. Otherwise the old adage "a hungry man is an angry man" is likely to manifest itself in forms of protest, some civil and others uncivil.
We should be appreciative of our international colleagues who contribute to and support the growth of our economic sectors, but we must also be willing through leadership to bring about policy changes that promote local ownership in the economy eg an AFC equivalent for the ICT sector. If our international colleagues are at the helm today, let us emulate them by working at being at the helm tomorrow or complement their efforts by showing initiative in policy and decision making. If we sit back then we will only have ourselves to blame if our non-local colleagues become the most prominent in sectors of our economy.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Wainaina Mungai < wainaina.mungai@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
The anti-foreigner attacks in South Africa, Zimbabwe, other African countries...and now Kenya....
Is there a bigger picture evolving across the continent?
Wainaina
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian We take exception to our country being run by foreigners because we know what it means to live in their midst. You come and live in the US - or ask those Kenyans who have studied in India and could not find a single job in India to do not because they did not have skills but because they were not Indian - and you will tell me what you think.
A foreign born national - especially Africans - will not be allowed the kind of access and influence you guys seem to be abrogating to self declared foreigners leave alone those ones who are quiet and do not want to be found out. And when qualified Kenyans want to return home they find everything being run by foreigners and doors closed.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Joseph that was entirely uncalled for. Do you begin to have even the slightest clue as to the extent that this country has benefitted from Florence "Mama ICT's" sweat, blood and tears.
The question that is lurking in the bcak of my mind is why does it only (or mainly) seem to be our diaspora who are taking exception to the "visitors" in our midst? Could it be some kind of misplaced aggression?
If Dr. Henry Chassia was talked about or treated by the South Africans the way you guys are addressing our valued friends then both Mandela and Mbeki would not benefit from his incredible input in their Presidential Advisory Committee on ICTs.
Please desist from these kind of racial slurs....
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Jul 2008, at 7:27 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <<feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
*Alternative Email: <Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com> florence.etta@gmail.com*
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian@caret.net>brian@caret.net> To: <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk>feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions < <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, < <bitange@jambo.co.ke> bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
> Bill, > In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity > in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with > responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed. > > We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able > to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. > We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more > foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This > is what the NICs did. > > Asante. > > Ndemo. > > _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray. She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it. On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it. Alex On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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Alex, I agree with you. Those who know the history of KICTANET know what role Florence played in its formation. Yea, Florence is not a 'foreigner' to ICT in Kenya or KICTANET and she will definitely be a good 'judge' as you put it. Leonard "Gakuru , Alex" <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray. She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it. On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it. Alex On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi wrote:
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe
To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take
sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different
ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce
themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of
I agree with Alex/Leonard, Lets not get xenophobic. F.E simply offered to referee/moderate the session and not necessarily steal our family goat. And yes, she played a significant role during the conception of KICTAnet...and it is a bit rude -to say the least - just to knock her out because she is not Kenyan. Lets be strategic - we are seeking a service and if that service is BEST delivered by Mrs X or Mr. Y so be it - their nationality is secondary. That i believe is the phylosophy behind Business Process Outsourcing (BPO)which we are supposed to be embracing in a big way. That said, other members are free to offer their moderating services and may we chose/vote based on value and rather than xenophobic tendencies. walu. NB:it appears this list is really undergoing (premature?) teenage syndromes after just 4years in operation - no wonder they say time on the internet is four times faster than time in real life! --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "kictanet-lists" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:30 AM Alex, I agree with you. Those who know the history of KICTANET know what role Florence played in its formation. Yea, Florence is not a 'foreigner' to ICT in Kenya or KICTANET and she will definitely be a good 'judge' as you put it. Leonard "Gakuru , Alex" <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray. She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it. On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it. Alex On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi wrote: the
problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take
sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different
ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce
themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of
Walu, Now that you have said it loud enough, I wish to ask PS Ndemo (and any other 'strong' man/woman on the list) to fast track Florence's citizenship ( I pray that she accepts) because for reality we need brains such as hers. I am a strong believer in migration and it is a fact that development for this country will only come about if we encourage migration of talent to our country. This is where USA/Europe (and India, yes, India!) is and we all know what they do to get talents on board. BTW, without migration from countries such as India, Nigeria, Europe etc (I hope Hon. Kajwang was listening), the realization of this country's full ICT potential will take a long time. Locally, we all know what some communities have done by 'exporting' their talent in business and farming to other parts of the country. Unfortunately, xenophobic tones (as witnessed in this list) helped turn some into IDPs. What I suggest is an organized approach to encourage migration of ICT talent and investment to Kenya. This should be part of the Workplan/Business plan Dr. Ndemo and Dr. Ochuodho were talking about earlier on the list. Leonard John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: I agree with Alex/Leonard, Lets not get xenophobic. F.E simply offered to referee/moderate the session and not necessarily steal our family goat. And yes, she played a significant role during the conception of KICTAnet...and it is a bit rude -to say the least - just to knock her out because she is not Kenyan. Lets be strategic - we are seeking a service and if that service is BEST delivered by Mrs X or Mr. Y so be it - their nationality is secondary. That i believe is the phylosophy behind Business Process Outsourcing (BPO)which we are supposed to be embracing in a big way. That said, other members are free to offer their moderating services and may we chose/vote based on value and rather than xenophobic tendencies. walu. NB:it appears this list is really undergoing (premature?) teenage syndromes after just 4years in operation - no wonder they say time on the internet is four times faster than time in real life! --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Leonard Mware wrote: From: Leonard Mware Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "kictanet-lists" Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:30 AM Alex, I agree with you. Those who know the history of KICTANET know what role Florence played in its formation. Yea, Florence is not a 'foreigner' to ICT in Kenya or KICTANET and she will definitely be a good 'judge' as you put it. Leonard "Gakuru , Alex" wrote: Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray. She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it. On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it. Alex On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi wrote: the
problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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This message was sent to: jmanthi@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com
-- Joseph Manthi CEO MEO Ltd http://www.meoltd.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mleonardo@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mleonardo%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
A Kenyan version of the Green Card - v. interesting ...... Brian On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Leonard Mware <mleonardo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Walu, Now that you have said it loud enough, I wish to ask PS Ndemo (and any other 'strong' man/woman on the list) to fast track Florence's citizenship ( I pray that she accepts) because for reality we need brains such as hers. I am a strong believer in migration and it is a fact that development for this country will only come about if we encourage migration of talent to our country. This is where USA/Europe (and India, yes, India!) is and we all know what they do to get talents on board. BTW, without migration from countries such as India, Nigeria, Europe etc (I hope Hon. Kajwang was listening), the realization of this country's full ICT potential will take a long time. Locally, we all know what some communities have done by 'exporting' their talent in business and farming to other parts of the country. Unfortunately, xenophobic tones (as witnessed in this list) helped turn some into IDPs. What I suggest is an organized approach to encourage migration of ICT talent and investment to Kenya. This should be part of the Workplan/Business plan Dr. Ndemo and Dr. Ochuodho were talking about earlier on the list.
Leonard
*John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com>* wrote:
I agree with Alex/Leonard,
Lets not get xenophobic. F.E simply offered to referee/moderate the session and not necessarily steal our family goat. And yes, she played a significant role during the conception of KICTAnet...and it is a bit rude -to say the least - just to knock her out because she is not Kenyan.
Lets be strategic - we are seeking a service and if that service is BEST delivered by Mrs X or Mr. Y so be it - their nationality is secondary. That i believe is the phylosophy behind Business Process Outsourcing (BPO)which we are supposed to be embracing in a big way.
That said, other members are free to offer their moderating services and may we chose/vote based on value and rather than xenophobic tendencies.
walu. NB:it appears this list is really undergoing (premature?) teenage syndromes after just 4years in operation - no wonder they say time on the internet is four times faster than time in real life!
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Leonard Mware wrote: From: Leonard Mware Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "kictanet-lists" Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:30 AM
Alex, I agree with you. Those who know the history of KICTANET know what role Florence played in its formation. Yea, Florence is not a 'foreigner' to ICT in Kenya or KICTANET and she will definitely be a good 'judge' as you put it. Leonard
"Gakuru , Alex" wrote: Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting
to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray.
She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it.
On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it.
Alex
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take
sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com<Email%3Aflorence.etta@gmail.com>
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different
ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce
themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of
problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress
sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi wrote: the their through
my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy.
We
have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
Florence: Don't you think you should let Kenyan's deal with their own stuff instead of you foreigners interfering? This is equivalent to you being invited to someone's else's house and asking to sleep in the parent's bed. It is high time you let us do our own things for our benefit.
Brian, I vote no to this.
Joe
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Florence Etta wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take
sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all, We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different
ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce
themselves and their policies to the public. There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement. Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this. Warm regards, Brian On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of
problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress
sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry
I concur fully with Walu King'ang'i From: kictanet-bounces+fes=iconnect.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+fes=iconnect.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Leonard Mware Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:03 PM To: fes@iconnect.co.ke Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics Walu, Now that you have said it loud enough, I wish to ask PS Ndemo (and any other 'strong' man/woman on the list) to fast track Florence's citizenship ( I pray that she accepts) because for reality we need brains such as hers. I am a strong believer in migration and it is a fact that development for this country will only come about if we encourage migration of talent to our country. This is where USA/Europe (and India, yes, India!) is and we all know what they do to get talents on board. BTW, without migration from countries such as India, Nigeria, Europe etc (I hope Hon. Kajwang was listening), the realization of this country's full ICT potential will take a long time. Locally, we all know what some communities have done by 'exporting' their talent in business and farming to other parts of the country. Unfortunately, xenophobic tones (as witnessed in this list) helped turn some into IDPs. What I suggest is an organized approach to encourage migration of ICT talent and investment to Kenya. This should be part of the Workplan/Business plan Dr. Ndemo and Dr. Ochuodho were talking about earlier on the list. Leonard John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: I agree with Alex/Leonard, Lets not get xenophobic. F.E simply offered to referee/moderate the session and not necessarily steal our family goat. And yes, she played a significant role during the conception of KICTAnet...and it is a bit rude -to say the least - just to knock her out because she is not Kenyan. Lets be strategic - we are seeking a service and if that service is BEST delivered by Mrs X or Mr. Y so be it - their nationality is secondary. That i believe is the phylosophy behind Business Process Outsourcing (BPO)which we are supposed to be embracing in a big way. That said, other members are free to offer their moderating services and may we chose/vote based on value and rather than xenophobic tendencies. walu. NB:it appears this list is really undergoing (premature?) teenage syndromes after just 4years in operation - no wonder they say time on the internet is four times faster than time in real life! --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Leonard Mware wrote: From: Leonard Mware Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "kictanet-lists" Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:30 AM Alex, I agree with you. Those who know the history of KICTANET know what role Florence played in its formation. Yea, Florence is not a 'foreigner' to ICT in Kenya or KICTANET and she will definitely be a good 'judge' as you put it. Leonard "Gakuru , Alex" wrote: Joseph, You make the meeting scary;) We are not going to war just meeting to thrush out a few piky local stakeholders issues. Therefore a distinguished "foreigner" (actually difficult to view her that way) who has walked alongside our ICT policy formulation process will help us reflect where we have come from, the ICT Canaan-steering us away from distractions leading us astray. She has deservedly been called "Mama ICT" (Policy) and I respect the lady as forum "judge." What do the others feel about her word being final? I am ok with it. On a light note, I fear if we take "enclosed" angle, we may end up asking for 42 regionally balanced facilitators and then be assured several will skip it. Alex On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Manthi wrote: the their through
my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, wrote:
Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy.
We
have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: brian@caret.net Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
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Hi Florence, Thank you for the offer. Your reputation and track record precede you. We shall take this on advisememt and communicate accordingly. We definitely need participation from people with your maturity, neutrality, sobriety and deep understanding of both the historical and current issues in the sector. Regards, Brian Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jul 2008, at 6:40 PM, Florence Etta <feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My dear Brian,
May I humbly publicly offer my services to facilitate such a Forum since I am NOT Kenyan I wil not take sides.
Besides, I am passionate about developments in this sector and in the continent at large and I love to bring people together to discuss constructiuvely. Trust me.
Cheers, Florence Etta
Alternative Email:florence.etta@gmail.com
----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <brian@caret.net> To: feanywhere@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 4:39:57 PM Subject: [kictanet] Kenya ICT Sector Stakeholder Public Forum (was Re: Legislation and Discipline & Ethics)
Hi all,
We are proposing a Public Forum on Thursday 31st of July to be held at a suitable venue in Nairobi. The objective will be to provide all the different ICT stakeholder organisations within Kenya a chance to introduce themselves and their policies to the public.
There will also be opportunity to evaluate Kenya's ICT ecosystem, especially with regards to the different entities, their missions, roles and goals. As well as provide organisations such as KEPSA with an opportunity to share their view/vision on how they expect ICT sector input/engagement.
Formal announcement will be posted once details have been worked out, but in the meantime please pencil this into your schedules. We can also explore the possibility of an IP stream for the Diaspora... if there is interest in tracking this.
Warm regards,
Brian
On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Bill Kagai wrote:
Daktari,
I agree with you to some extent. If I were to chronicle the genesis of the problem, some organisations were/are feeling choked by KIF especially in relation to KEPSA. In my opinion, this means that KIF has managed to do many things better than others to get where they are. However, that should not mean that KIF now becomes the blanket representative of the industry in matters pertaining to KEPSA. Other specialised organisations e.g. Skunkworks, CSK, Kictanet etc should have equal opportunity to adress their sector specific concerns with any stakeholder. [Government/Industry/Public]. E.g. If a foreign software house came to Government seeking advice on how to partner with the local industry, why should KIF seize the opportunity when we know that Skunkworks is more adept in those matters?? [Caveat - organisations mentioned for purpose of elaboration only]
The crux of the matter is that these new organisations do not come up because of sector specific concerns they wish addressed...service, bandwidth, policy, payment gateways etc but because officials running established organisations have become 'Mugabes' resisting change and growing old [literally] in those positions.
You are best placed to provide leadership here by insisting that you will only engage with organisations that run efficient structures with clear mandates from their electorates and I will follow by paying membership in all organisations that I feel will help air my business concerns in the industry. Actually, I will be comfortable dealing with your ministry through my sector organisation instead of all us queueing at your reception. And I will hold my organisation leader responsible and thus create more time for you to engage with others.
Waudo::: You know what am talking about. Be brave...wachia vijana usukani.
Bill
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Bill, In my view, such fracases are an indication of the level of activity in our sector. We however must exercise our freedom of speech with responsibility. If nothing was happening, nobody will feel squeezed.
We must show the world that inspite of our differences, we are able to remain focused. I wish we spent more energy on diffusion of technoloy. We have limitless opportunities in this sector that we must encourage more foreign equity participation to ensure a flow of technology transfer. This is what the NICs did.
Asante.
Ndemo.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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participants (13)
-
aki -
Brian Longwe -
Brian Munyao Longwe
-
Florence Etta -
Foundation Piling Limited -
Gakuru , Alex -
John Walubengo -
Joseph Manthi -
Leonard Mware -
Mike Theuri -
saidimu apale -
Titus Mburu -
Wainaina Mungai