Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right
Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga, Here are my concerns. It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks appear do to a different problem. then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS in the proposed bill. 15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT practitioner if the person - ... (d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act. On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
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1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right (Ali Hussein)
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Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300 From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Kamotho
Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:-
That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not.
I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:-
1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts.
Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a door you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't tell me much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the Association, when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and when is the next election or appointments? How about the management?
The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is important don't you think?
A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate took me to this site:-
http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this information is missing on the ICTAK site,
Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular elections.
Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/ index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=48&key= d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual AGMs.
2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:-
'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like any other is not a matter of life and death.'
My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been purporting to protect, defend and promote.
You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families. Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some of us.
3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand.
'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend it or to reject it altogether.'
So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a process so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this bill is a good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm sure I'm speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and flawed.
This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history here is important:-
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012-December/018900.html
And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether it is executed by a minority or a majority.
4. To quote you..again:-
My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid!
Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-)
5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical publicly in rejecting this bill.
http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya- rejects-ict-practitioners-bill#
Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what precipitated it and what is the new position.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
******************************************
They would probably ask for a certificate from eacc Regards, Alex From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of JImmy Gitonga via kictanet Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:04 PM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga, Here are my concerns. It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks appear do to a different problem. then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS in the proposed bill. 15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT practitioner if the person - ... (d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act. On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right (Ali Hussein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300 From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke> > To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke <mailto:8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Kamotho Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:- That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not. I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:- 1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts. Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a door you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't tell me much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the Association, when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and when is the next election or appointments? How about the management? http://www.ictak.or.ke/ The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is important don't you think? A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate took me to this site:- http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this information is missing on the ICTAK site, Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular elections. Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/index.php?option=com_acymailing <http://members.ukita.co.uk/index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=48&key=d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66> &ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=48&key=d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual AGMs. 2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:- 'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like any other is not a matter of life and death.' My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been purporting to protect, defend and promote. You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families. Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some of us. 3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand. 'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend it or to reject it altogether.' So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a process so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this bill is a good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm sure I'm speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and flawed. This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history here is important:- http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012-December/018900.html And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether it is executed by a minority or a majority. 4. To quote you..again:- My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid! Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-) 5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical publicly in rejecting this bill. http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya-rejects-ict-practitio... <http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya-rejects-ict-practitioners-bill> Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what precipitated it and what is the new position. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi Sent from my iPad ******************************************
Ali, I want a mug of "Malindi Macchiato", may be this is my miracle cure... Barrack, Nyama choma version of what:,:,::,Tupatane Kariookoo, we look for "muturaa" The observations listers make are largely what necessitated the multi-stakeholder deliberations. As far as I am aware, the position of the Ministry of ICT never changed. The ministry raised objections to the Bill. What is remarkable is that the Ministry's top executive didn't cling to the Authority of Office to oppose the Bill but rather choose to respectfully make a compelling intellectual case to justify the objection. To me, a good idea should always give way to a better idea. With the extra knowledge flowing through the Consultations, those of us who were initially pushing for immediate activation of the Bill took a pause and put back our missiles onto their launch pads. Accordingly, as stakeholders we agreed to walk through the Bill clause by clause whereby all Provisions were subjected to high voltage screening. In the end less than half of the Bill was left alive. This gives rise to the question "where is the amended Bill?". There is no amended version. Parliamentary procedures do not allow a Committee to amend a Bill. The Committee makes recommendations which are then transmitted to the House. In this case Stakeholders have unanimously resolved to do away with more than 50% of the Provisions of the Bill. The Recommendation that commends itself in my view is to have the Bill set aside. I am confident that Parliament will consider that decision. Just to mention, our Parliamentarians are also competent in matters beyond politics, hence the notion of "what do MPs know about ICT" is neither here nor there. MP's could as well pose "what do ICT people know about law making?" In the meantime, business as usual or as they say *turudi mashambaniii* Kamotho On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Alex Watila via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
They would probably ask for a certificate from eacc
Regards,
Alex
*From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists. kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *JImmy Gitonga via kictanet *Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:04 PM *To:* awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com>
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right
Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga,
Here are my concerns.
It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks appear do to a different problem.
then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS in the proposed bill.
15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT practitioner if the person - ...
(d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act.
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right (Ali Hussein)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300 From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Kamotho
Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:-
That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not.
I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:-
1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts.
Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a door you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't tell me much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the Association, when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and when is the next election or appointments? How about the management?
The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is important don't you think?
A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate took me to this site:-
http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this information is missing on the ICTAK site,
Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular elections.
Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/ index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=48&key= d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual AGMs.
2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:-
'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like any other is not a matter of life and death.'
My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been purporting to protect, defend and promote.
You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families. Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some of us.
3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand.
'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend it or to reject it altogether.'
So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a process so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this bill is a good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm sure I'm speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and flawed.
This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history here is important:-
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012-December/018900.html
And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether it is executed by a minority or a majority.
4. To quote you..again:-
My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid!
Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-)
5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical publicly in rejecting this bill.
http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya- rejects-ict-practitioners-bill# <http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya-rejects-ict-practitioners-bill>
Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what precipitated it and what is the new position.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113>
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
******************************************
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On 10 Dec 2016 16:01, "Alex Watila via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: They would probably ask for a certificate from eacc Or a bribe knowing what's at stake. Regards, Alex *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists. kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *JImmy Gitonga via kictanet *Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:04 PM *To:* awatila@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga, Here are my concerns. It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks appear do to a different problem. then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS in the proposed bill. 15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT practitioner if the person - ... (d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act. On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right (Ali Hussein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300 From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts Right Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Kamotho Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:- That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not. I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:- 1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts. Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a door you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't tell me much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the Association, when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and when is the next election or appointments? How about the management? http://www.ictak.or.ke/ The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is important don't you think? A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate took me to this site:- http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this information is missing on the ICTAK site, Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular elections. Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/index.php?option=com_ acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=48&key= d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual AGMs. 2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:- 'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like any other is not a matter of life and death.' My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been purporting to protect, defend and promote. You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families. Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some of us. 3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand. 'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend it or to reject it altogether.' So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a process so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this bill is a good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm sure I'm speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and flawed. This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history here is important:- http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012-December/018900.html And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether it is executed by a minority or a majority. 4. To quote you..again:- My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid! Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-) 5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical publicly in rejecting this bill. http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya- rejects-ict-practitioners-bill# <http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya-rejects-ict-practitioners-bill> Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what precipitated it and what is the new position. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi Sent from my iPad ****************************************** _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/options/kictanet/arebacollins%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. 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participants (4)
-
Alex Watila -
Collins Areba -
JImmy Gitonga -
Kamotho Njenga