Arent we being abit presumptuous? The CBK is acting in our interest. If BitPesa was to close shop today how would you hold them accountable? Who regulates them? Do they have a financial license? On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Waithaka

I concur with you. 150%

Regulators the world over need to get on with the Program. Virtual Currencies are here to stay. Instead of fighting them and driving them underground find a way to work with the new dispensation.

This is a fight the CBK will NEVER win. That you can take to the Bank. (Pun intended).

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges.

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping with other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take when we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

Regards

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to media reports on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money transfer services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that the platform that exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,*

*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke

I don't think the issue is a lack of understanding but rather the lack of tools to regulate On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Mark

That argument would be great in a perfect world…A world where Mpesa would have been killed because the banks were threatened and CBK then had no clue how to regulate this newfangled way of transferring value.

The issue is two pronged:-

1. Start-ups and companies in the IT sector need to get a lot more savvy with regulation. 2. Regulators need to be less reactionary and embrace new ideas while safeguarding our interests.

Granted. Its not an easy thing. The answer is not to kill the startup because you don’t understand it. Its to help them navigate the regulatory pitfalls.

I hope the new team coming on board and a new idea being discussed by stakeholders called Enterprise Kenya will look into such issues.

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

On Dec 15, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:

Arent we being abit presumptuous? The CBK is acting in our interest. If BitPesa was to close shop today how would you hold them accountable? Who regulates them? Do they have a financial license?

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Waithaka

I concur with you. 150%

Regulators the world over need to get on with the Program. Virtual Currencies are here to stay. Instead of fighting them and driving them underground find a way to work with the new dispensation.

This is a fight the CBK will NEVER win. That you can take to the Bank. (Pun intended).

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges.

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping with other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take when we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

Regards

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to media reports on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money transfer services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that the platform that exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,*

*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Mark Mwangi

markmwangi.me.ke

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki *E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro |

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

Here is a good article from Wall Street Journal on why cryptocurrency is inevitable http://www.bitcointalkradio.com/central-bankers-explore-response-to-bitcoin-... By Ryan Tracy <http://topics.wsj.com/person/A/biography/7216> The rise of bitcoin has central bankers around the world studying the possibility of issuing virtual money backed by the government itself. A shift in that direction could cut costs across the payment system and give authorities more control over their money supply. It also could​raise security and privacy concerns. To date, no central banks have embraced issuing digital versions of their fiat currencies. But the prospect is gaining steam as officials around the world begin to view a mostly digital payment system as inevitable. “We have to envision a world in which people mostly use e-money,” Carolyn Wilkins, senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada, said in a Nov. 13 speech <http://www.bankofcanada.ca/2015/11/innovation-central-bank-style/>. “We need to anticipate this and manage the risks and benefits that could arise.” So far, central banks haven’t settled on a technology that would allow them to issue their own digital cash. But a Dublin-based startup, eCurrency Mint, has been meeting with central banks and marketing a technology that it claims would give them that capacity. Jonathan Dharmapalan, founder and chief executive of eCM, said the firm has discussed the technology with 30 central banks, piloted it “in multiple countries,” and reached agreements with two central banks to transfer to them the technology necessary to issue the currency. He declined to say which central banks or countries but said he expects them to announce the programs publicly soon. He said that, unlike bitcoin, his technology isn’t designed to operate as its own payment system outside the existing one. Instead, it could be transferred just like cash between consumers, merchants, banks and payment companies, using existing digital transaction systems or new ones. In other words, it would change the makeup of the currency without changing the “pipes” through which it flows. In recent years, Canada and Ecuador have experimented with their own digital payment technologies, and the topic is on the research agendas of central banks across the world. The Bank for International Settlements, the members of which include 60 global central banks, said in a paper last month that existing digital currencies such as bitcoin raise the possibility authorities will have less control over the monetary system—and “one option is to consider using the technology itself to issue digital currencies.” Officials at the U.S. Federal Reserve say they are monitoring developments but haven’t said they are considering issuing digital currency. Central bankers’ interest in digital currency is an inevitable reaction to the rapid shift away from physical cash. The existing payment system is electronic, but money is stored centrally in bank accounts and verified via payment networks, which add cost along the way. A digital currency, on the other hand, would be like a bit of encrypted computer code “minted” by a central bank. It would carry with it all the necessary information to validate its value. That means in a sense it could move around with users and merchants. ​ For instance, today a consumer might hold $10 of digital cash on a debit or gift card issued by a bank or a retailer. That $10 can only be spent where the card is accepted. But if that card held $10 in digital currency backed by the U.S. Federal Reserve, its owner could, in theory, spend it anywhere. The prospect is appealing to central bankers for a litany of reasons. On a practical level, they could save money on printing physical cash. Mr. Dharmapalan says minting and distributing digital currency would cost 10% of what it costs to print and distribute an equivalent physical currency note while allowing the government to retain the revenue it gets from issuing currency, known as seigniorage. Central bankers also might find appealing the ability to better track transactions, since cash transactions are anonymous and susceptible to illicit uses. In a news release Wednesday, the Omidyar Network, a philanthropic investment firm backed by eBay <http://quotes.wsj.com/EBAY> Inc. founder Pierre Omidyar, said it had invested in eCM. The company and the investment firm, which haven’t previously spoken to the media about their digital currency project, wouldn’t say how much money eCM has raised since it was founded in 2011. Felix Martin, an investment fund manager and author of the book “Money: The Unauthorised Biography,” said he hasn’t evaluated eCM’s technology in detail, but in theory such an innovation “could be a very useful technological advance, most likely as something to sit alongside physical cash” that would allow nonbank firms to interact digitally with the central bank. Kennedy Komba, who works at Tanzania’s central bank and with the Alliance for Financial Inclusion, a global network of financial policy makers, said he had met with eCM, and that he thinks the prospect of central bank-backed digital cash has “a lot of potential.” In Africa, for instance, where mobile-phone payments have grown rapidly, physical money backed by the government is still crucial, says Mr. Komba. If a mobile-phone customer in Tanzania wants to put money in her account, he or she often must deposit cash. If that same consumer wanted to make a payment to another person who didn’t have the same phone company, he or she would have to withdraw cash. To facilitate all that cash movement, the central bank, commercial banks and phone companies must spend money on employees, vaults and secure transportation. A digital currency could reduce those costs by making transactions simpler and easier to execute, and that could lower the cost of financial services more generally. In developed countries such as the U.S., digital cash could also have benefits for consumers by allowing money to move more easily and cheaply in the digital realm. Economists such as Andrew Haldane, the chief economist of the Bank of England, have said widespread use of digital cash could create new possibilities in interest-rate policy at a time when existing monetary policy tools are being pushed to their limits to boost the global economy. Policy makers have generally avoided negative interest rates, in part because consumers would withdraw their physical cash from banks if they felt the negative rate would diminish their account value. If there were no physical cash, account holders wouldn’t have that option. “Perhaps central bank money is ripe for its own great technological leap forward,” Mr. Haldane said in a Sept. 18 speech <http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2015/speech840.pdf>

Just thinking. Is there just a better time for equitel to shine :) On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

In light of today's debate on the notice issued by CBK on virtual currencies, here is an update of a related story

http://www.nation.co.ke/business/safaricom-suspends-companyies/-/996/2998070...

------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:13:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Public Notice by CBK on Virtual Currencies From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ali@hussein.me.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though.

I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer swahilibox.co.ke m-power.or.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com

If you go to bitpesa website, you will find they already moved their cheese to Airtel. Regards On Dec 16, 2015 10:55 AM, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Just thinking. Is there just a better time for equitel to shine :)

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

In light of today's debate on the notice issued by CBK on virtual currencies, here is an update of a related story

http://www.nation.co.ke/business/safaricom-suspends-companyies/-/996/2998070...

------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:13:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Public Notice by CBK on Virtual Currencies From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ali@hussein.me.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though.

I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO) Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer

swahilibox.co.ke m-power.or.ke www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com ajplus.net www.everylayer.com

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Hello All did you know that migrant Africans are charged a whole 12% or more on remittances back home from developed countries and that these charges are 2wice the global rate.  and that 66% of the global (to africa) remittances are from MTOs such as Moneygram and Western union REGARDS MESHACK On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Josiah Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!) Ali HusseinPrincipalHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Hi, You can't regulate what you can't track. If I'm not mistaken Bitcoin was built with anonymity in mind to the point that no one knows for sure who came up with it. Hence its use in questionable deals / black market transactions. In light of this CBK have made the only stand they could. Maybe future virtual currencies will have the necessary features to get them comfortable. On 16 Dec 2015 15:29, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Meshack

You have brought Ina whole new dimension to this discussion.

Your assertions by the way are true. That is however changing very fast with new players surfacing very fast. This is a $580 billion global money movement space with about $50 billion in fees/and or forex spreads. You can now see why bitcoins can upset the apple cart..but that's a discussion for another day.

To Mwendwa's question/comment about bitcoins and Imperial Bank. Not sure this is an apples for apples comparison. Bitcoins are a currency and Imperial Bank issue is mainly one of depositors potentially loosing money because of unscrupulous management and inability of Central Bank to timely regulate.

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Dec 2015, at 1:58 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello All

did you know that migrant Africans are charged a whole 12% or more on remittances back home from developed countries and that these charges are 2wice the global rate. and that 66% of the global (to africa) remittances are from MTOs such as Moneygram and Western union

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/anderson.levi%40gmail....

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

But where does Bitcoin derive its value? The USD is backed by the US government and so long as the US remains competitive and strong so does the dollar. Same for the Kenya Shilling. Bitcoin is only valuable now because its rare. Nothing else. As has been mentioned before the "Anonymous" nature of it means it could easily be a smart government experimenting. What happens if they decide to mint some more once it has become mainstream? Sure the technology may eventually take hold in some form but I doubt it will be in its current iteration. On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:22 PM, meshack emakunat via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

maybe the reason as to why the CBK has somehow distanced itself form Bitcoins is probably the nature and structure and model that drives them. i.e they are designed to remain almost unregulated. My say is what if the solution is not the absolute regulation that is applied to other currencies(paper money,? what if the solution is just the relative regulation that the currency seeks. by relative i mean if bitcoin can be allowed to and accepted as a legal tender and a medium of exchange for "the internet economy"

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 3:28 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

Meshack

You have brought Ina whole new dimension to this discussion.

Your assertions by the way are true. That is however changing very fast with new players surfacing very fast. This is a $580 billion global money movement space with about $50 billion in fees/and or forex spreads. You can now see why bitcoins can upset the apple cart..but that's a discussion for another day.

To Mwendwa's question/comment about bitcoins and Imperial Bank. Not sure this is an apples for apples comparison. Bitcoins are a currency and Imperial Bank issue is mainly one of depositors potentially loosing money because of unscrupulous management and inability of Central Bank to timely regulate.

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Dec 2015, at 1:58 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello All

did you know that migrant Africans are charged a whole 12% or more on remittances back home from developed countries and that these charges are 2wice the global rate. and that 66% of the global (to africa) remittances are from MTOs such as Moneygram and Western union

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke

"Bitcoin is an algorithm that lets those with serious CPU Power to mine (generate) bitcoins. " That's usually where my mind goes blank! I once considered buying a PC - Core i7, 64GB RAM, install 512GB SSD and start mining Bitcoins. Then I asked myself - mining what?? Let my PC to run some app 24/7/365 mining something that's not physical.....Brain lock. Idea shelved. I's rather look for NYS Tender! On 16 December 2015 at 18:43, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Mark,

Where does Bitcoin derive its value? Because its rare and others are willing to pay for the same rarity... Think of Gold, usually not very useful, but its rarity and the fact that we and others like 'looking' at it gives it value.

Why do 'others' like to pay for Bitcoin? Because it gives them value and it helps them to transfer value to others.

As for a Central Organization *minting* more Bitcoins, that's not exactly possible. why, because Bitcoin is an algorithm that lets those with serious CPU Power to mine (generate) bitcoins.

Minting Bitcoins is actually very decentralized and even *you* can do it. The algorithm guarantees that: 1. It becomes exponentially harder to keep on minting Bitcoins once the minting started. So you need more computer now to keep generating Bitcoins 2. There are a finite number of Bitcoins that can currently be generated with the resources available 3. No central authority can generate Bitcoins and hence flood the market

Some beautiful Math this is...

Rgds

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Mark Mwangi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

But where does Bitcoin derive its value? The USD is backed by the US government and so long as the US remains competitive and strong so does the dollar. Same for the Kenya Shilling. Bitcoin is only valuable now because its rare. Nothing else.

As has been mentioned before the "Anonymous" nature of it means it could easily be a smart government experimenting. What happens if they decide to mint some more once it has become mainstream?

Sure the technology may eventually take hold in some form but I doubt it will be in its current iteration.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:22 PM, meshack emakunat via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

maybe the reason as to why the CBK has somehow distanced itself form Bitcoins is probably the nature and structure and model that drives them. i.e they are designed to remain almost unregulated. My say is what if the solution is not the absolute regulation that is applied to other currencies(paper money,? what if the solution is just the relative regulation that the currency seeks. by relative i mean if bitcoin can be allowed to and accepted as a legal tender and a medium of exchange for "the internet economy"

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 3:28 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

Meshack

You have brought Ina whole new dimension to this discussion.

Your assertions by the way are true. That is however changing very fast with new players surfacing very fast. This is a $580 billion global money movement space with about $50 billion in fees/and or forex spreads. You can now see why bitcoins can upset the apple cart..but that's a discussion for another day.

To Mwendwa's question/comment about bitcoins and Imperial Bank. Not sure this is an apples for apples comparison. Bitcoins are a currency and Imperial Bank issue is mainly one of depositors potentially loosing money because of unscrupulous management and inability of Central Bank to timely regulate.

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Dec 2015, at 1:58 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello All

did you know that migrant Africans are charged a whole 12% or more on remittances back home from developed countries and that these charges are 2wice the global rate. and that 66% of the global (to africa) remittances are from MTOs such as Moneygram and Western union

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Mark Mwangi

markmwangi.me.ke

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- *Regards,*

*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."

LOL Waithaka, you just made my day.. Thanks & Regards Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

On Dec 16, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

:-),

Just as well those ones before you @NYS decided to keep their money in plots :-)

With you we'll probably be chasing Bitcoins and I can imagine UK in a Press Release saying...

"...Tutawafuata mpaka hizo ma-Bitcoins zipatikane‎... Na zikipatikana hakuna ma-Bitcoin itatoka Kenya tena..."

Then there will follow a morning raid at your house... To look for Bitcoins under your mattress :-)

Waithaka Ngigi

Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke From: Odhiambo Washington via kictanet Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 6:56 PM To: Ngigi Waithaka Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: Odhiambo Washington Subject: Re: [kictanet] Public Notice by CBK on Virtual Currencies

"Bitcoin is an algorithm that lets those with serious CPU Power to mine (generate) bitcoins. "

That's usually where my mind goes blank! I once considered buying a PC - Core i7, 64GB RAM, install 512GB SSD and start mining Bitcoins. Then I asked myself - mining what?? Let my PC to run some app 24/7/365 mining something that's not physical.....Brain lock. Idea shelved. I's rather look for NYS Tender!

On 16 December 2015 at 18:43, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Mark,

Where does Bitcoin derive its value? Because its rare and others are willing to pay for the same rarity... Think of Gold, usually not very useful, but its rarity and the fact that we and others like 'looking' at it gives it value.

Why do 'others' like to pay for Bitcoin? Because it gives them value and it helps them to transfer value to others.

As for a Central Organization *minting* more Bitcoins, that's not exactly possible. why, because Bitcoin is an algorithm that lets those with serious CPU Power to mine (generate) bitcoins.

Minting Bitcoins is actually very decentralized and even *you* can do it. The algorithm guarantees that: 1. It becomes exponentially harder to keep on minting Bitcoins once the minting started. So you need more computer now to keep generating Bitcoins 2. There are a finite number of Bitcoins that can currently be generated with the resources available 3. No central authority can generate Bitcoins and hence flood the market

Some beautiful Math this is...

Rgds

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Mark Mwangi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: But where does Bitcoin derive its value? The USD is backed by the US government and so long as the US remains competitive and strong so does the dollar. Same for the Kenya Shilling. Bitcoin is only valuable now because its rare. Nothing else.

As has been mentioned before the "Anonymous" nature of it means it could easily be a smart government experimenting. What happens if they decide to mint some more once it has become mainstream?

Sure the technology may eventually take hold in some form but I doubt it will be in its current iteration.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:22 PM, meshack emakunat via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: maybe the reason as to why the CBK has somehow distanced itself form Bitcoins is probably the nature and structure and model that drives them. i.e they are designed to remain almost unregulated. My say is what if the solution is not the absolute regulation that is applied to other currencies(paper money,? what if the solution is just the relative regulation that the currency seeks. by relative i mean if bitcoin can be allowed to and accepted as a legal tender and a medium of exchange for "the internet economy"

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 3:28 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:

Meshack

You have brought Ina whole new dimension to this discussion.

Your assertions by the way are true. That is however changing very fast with new players surfacing very fast. This is a $580 billion global money movement space with about $50 billion in fees/and or forex spreads. You can now see why bitcoins can upset the apple cart..but that's a discussion for another day.

To Mwendwa's question/comment about bitcoins and Imperial Bank. Not sure this is an apples for apples comparison. Bitcoins are a currency and Imperial Bank issue is mainly one of depositors potentially loosing money because of unscrupulous management and inability of Central Bank to timely regulate.

Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 <tel:%2B254%200713%20601113> / 0770906375 <tel:0770906375>

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com <http://www.alyhussein.com/>

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Dec 2015, at 1:58 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com <mailto:memakunat@yahoo.com>> wrote:

...

Hello All

did you know that migrant Africans are charged a whole 12% or more on remittances back home from developed countries and that these charges are 2wice the global rate. and that 66% of the global (to africa) remittances are from MTOs such as Moneygram and Western union

REGARDS

MESHACK

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

Josiah

Umeongea kama wazee kumi! (spoken like 10 wise men!)

Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 <tel:%2B254%200713%20601113> / 0770906375 <tel:0770906375>

Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Blog: www.alyhussein.com <http://www.alyhussein.com/>

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

...

BitPesa requires proof of identity before use. I found it quite lengthy and a tad tedious while signing up sometimes back. That somewhat takes care of KYC procedures though. I think CBK are obligated to make this position as a caveat emptor. An idea for them might be to use this case with BitPesa as a pilot with the view of coming up with regulations. Especially as cryptocurrencies are not going away any time soon. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Mark Mwangi

markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke/>

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Waithaka Ngigi Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 <> www.at.co.ke <http://www.at.co.ke/>

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com>

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Mark Noted. The key word here is control. And by the way just for your information no Central Bank in the world controls Bitcoin. Hence the problems it attracts. My problem with regulators is that they always see a glass half empty as opposed to half full. The savvy regulator today (sometimes the CA gives us a glimpse of how a forward thinking regulator can be a great catalyst for the development of a sector) :-) needs to understand that CONTROL (emphasis mine) is overrated. Rather being a catalyst and a defender of the citizens rights can actually be combined. Reactionary statements like what they released doesn't auger well for the innovation space we are at. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad

On 15 Dec 2015, at 1:16 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:

@ Ali, The assumption we are working with is that CBK is a bunch of party poopers way behind on the tech trends. The Bitcoin market is beyond the CBKs control. MPesa wasnt. Mpesa was a threat to banks not to CBK. They dealt in Kenya shillings and held the money in a local bank account.

Bitcoin may prevail in the end but I think for CBK control is key. Afterall if its controlled by a foreign government and they decide to ransom you what can you do?

...

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote: Mark

That argument would be great in a perfect world…A world where Mpesa would have been killed because the banks were threatened and CBK then had no clue how to regulate this newfangled way of transferring value.

The issue is two pronged:-

1. Start-ups and companies in the IT sector need to get a lot more savvy with regulation. 2. Regulators need to be less reactionary and embrace new ideas while safeguarding our interests.

Granted. Its not an easy thing. The answer is not to kill the startup because you don’t understand it. Its to help them navigate the regulatory pitfalls.

I hope the new team coming on board and a new idea being discussed by stakeholders called Enterprise Kenya will look into such issues.

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

...

On Dec 15, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:

Arent we being abit presumptuous? The CBK is acting in our interest. If BitPesa was to close shop today how would you hold them accountable? Who regulates them? Do they have a financial license?

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Waithaka

I concur with you. 150%

Regulators the world over need to get on with the Program. Virtual Currencies are here to stay. Instead of fighting them and driving them underground find a way to work with the new dispensation.

This is a fight the CBK will NEVER win. That you can take to the Bank. (Pun intended).

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

...

On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges.

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping with other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take when we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

Regards

...

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to media reports on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money transfer services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that the platform that exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Waithaka Ngigi Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Mark Mwangi

markmwangi.me.ke

-- Regards,

Mark Mwangi

markmwangi.me.ke

The question we should ask: 1) If you were the Governor CBK or CS Finance? How would you handle Bitcoins? (with limited knowledge on technology matters?) - - i would appreciate some response to see the practicality of the decision that was made since there might be limited understanding on this phenomena :-). The answer should clearly define what bitcoin is, the pros and cons of embracing it..any takers, Ali, Ngigi, Kivuva?<div id="DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><table style="border-top: 1px solid #aaabb6; margin-top: 10px;"> <tr> <td style="width: 105px; padding-top: 15px;"> <a href="https://www.avast.com/lp-safe-emailing?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/logo-avast-v1.png" style="width: 90px; height:33px;"/></a> </td> <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 20px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. <br /><a href="https://www.avast.com/lp-safe-emailing?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a> </td> </tr> </table><a href="#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Watila Alex via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

many governments have taken policy decisions to opose bitcoins not for being virtual curreny but due to the lack of tracability.

cbk is just following suit.

other currency that are virtual but traceable by governments have largely been left alone

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, 15 Dec, 2015 at 8:49, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Waithaka

I concur with you. 150%

Regulators the world over need to get on with the Program. Virtual Currencies are here to stay. Instead of fighting them and driving them underground find a way to work with the new dispensation.

This is a fight the CBK will NEVER win. That you can take to the Bank. (Pun intended).

Thanks & Regards

Ali Hussein ali@hussein.me.ke

+254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: Abu-Jomo LinkedIn: http//ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com

On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges.

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping with other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take when we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

Regards

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to media reports on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money transfer services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that the platform that exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Waithaka Ngigi Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

On Dec 15, 2015 11:07 AM, "Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1

Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges. Mpesa is backed by equivalent shillings deposited to reflect the actual amount in your mpesa account. Let us call mpesa a bank account, because that is what it is. Is your bank balance a legal tender?

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

PayPal too is an account that reflects real money controlled by a central bank earned by offering goods or services.

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping with

other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take when

we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

This is where the analogy gets wrong. Mpesa and PayPal are real cash deposited into an account. The cash is controlled by a central bank depending on the currency. Bitcoin on the other hand is a digital currency that is created and held electronically without an equivalent hard currency cash deposit, unlike the ordinary legal tender, and is not a government-backed unit. Bitcoins are created as a reward for payment processing work in which users offer their computing power to verify and record payments into a public ledger. This activity is called mining and miners are rewarded with transaction fees and newly created bitcoins. A good analogy is the virtual coins you get as a reward when you play computer games like Temple Run. Although bitcouns are obtained by mining, bitcoins can be exchanged for other currencies, products, and services. A better analogy is the way I can sell my mangoes and apples, and IT skills for $$$. All that said, we should accept that bitcoin can provide legitimate financial services.

Regards

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <

...

CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to media

reports

...

on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money transfer services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that the

kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: platform that

...

exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Waithaka Ngigi Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

True Ngigi, these guys just print money out of nothing. My point was mpesa and PayPal are accounts backed by that printed currency. On Dec 16, 2015 8:48 AM, "Waithaka Ngigi" <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:

Mwendwa,

Every currency that you mention that backs Mpesa & Paypal is also virtual. How? Up until the 70s I think, the USD was pegged to actual Gold bullion at the Fed Reserve. In essence you could take a dollar anytime and get your Gold equivalent.

But for reasons I wouldn't get into, that stopped. Currencies became 'virtual' and backed only by the confidence users have of the underlying government. Monetary policy.

So the fact that Mpesa is backed by the Ksh is not itself the security but your implied trust in. KE monetary policy.

If. KE was to print more Ksh to fund the coming 2017 elections what happens to your Mpesa it loses value, something which can't happen in Bitcoin which cannot just be mined at a whim.

The main issue here is that BitCoin in a way challenges the central authority of a Central Bank. Everything else about what is backed by what is very similiar across the board.

Waithaka Ngigi

Alliance Technologies‎ www.at.co.ke *From: *Mwendwa Kivuva *Sent: *Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:25 AM *To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Cc: *Ngigi Waithaka *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Public Notice by CBK on Virtual Currencies

On Dec 15, 2015 11:07 AM, "Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Very dicey...

Let's see... What is MPesa? It's a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1

Mapping with the Kenya Shilling. That's why when I send you MPesa, you don't receive a legal tender, but you know you can convert it to KES at a rate of 1:1 minus the small charges.

Mpesa is backed by equivalent shillings deposited to reflect the actual amount in your mpesa account. Let us call mpesa a bank account, because that is what it is. Is your bank balance a legal tender?

...

What is Paypal? a Virtual Currency that has a 1:1 mapping with say USD

PayPal too is an account that reflects real money controlled by a central bank earned by offering goods or services.

...

What is BitCoin? A Virtual Currency that has a *fluctuating* mapping

with other currencies e.g 1:130 with USD.

...

If I take the risk that BitCoin might fluctuate, a risk we also take

when we get paid in USD / Euros etc when in Kenya, why should it be illegal?

...

Its just a Virtual Currency, one of many....

This is where the analogy gets wrong. Mpesa and PayPal are real cash deposited into an account. The cash is controlled by a central bank depending on the currency.

Bitcoin on the other hand is a digital currency that is created and held electronically without an equivalent hard currency cash deposit, unlike the ordinary legal tender, and is not a government-backed unit. Bitcoins are created as a reward for payment processing work in which users offer their computing power to verify and record payments into a public ledger. This activity is called mining and miners are rewarded with transaction fees and newly created bitcoins. A good analogy is the virtual coins you get as a reward when you play computer games like Temple Run. Although bitcouns are obtained by mining, bitcoins can be exchanged for other currencies, products, and services. A better analogy is the way I can sell my mangoes and apples, and IT skills for $$$.

All that said, we should accept that bitcoin can provide legitimate financial services.

...

Regards

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <

...

...

CBK has taken a stand:

https://www.centralbank.go.ke/index.php/news/464-public-on-virtual-currencie...

...

Extract:

++++

The attention of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been drawn to

media reports

...

on the use, holding and trading of virtual currencies such as Bitcoin in Kenya. Bitcoin is a form of un-regulated digital currency that is not issued or guaranteed by any government or central bank. Domestic and international money

...

...

services in Kenya are regulated by the Central Bank of Kenya Act and other legislation. In this regard, no entity is currently licensed to offer money remittance services and products in Kenya using virtual currency such as Bitcoin.

This is to inform the public that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin are not legal tender in Kenya and therefore no protection exists in the event that

kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: transfer the platform that

...

...

exchanges or holds the virtual currency fails or goes out of business. Some of the risks associated with buying, holding or trading virtual currencies include the following:  Transactions in virtual currencies such as bitcoin are largely untraceable and anonymous making them susceptible to abuse by criminals in money laundering and financing of terrorism.  Virtual currencies are traded in exchange platforms that tend to be unregulated all over the world. Consumers may therefore lose their money without having any legal redress in the event these exchanges collapse or close business.  There is no underlying or backing of assets and the value of virtual currencies is speculative in nature. This may result in high volatility in value of virtual currencies thus exposing users to potential losses.

CBK reiterates that Bitcoin and similar products are not legal tender nor are they regulated in Kenya. The public should therefore desist from transacting in Bitcoin and similar products. ++++

-- Josiah Mugambi

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Regards,

Waithaka Ngigi Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafr...

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.