Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Re: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
Fello Kenyans I am actually amazed by what PS Ndemo is trying to do with the assistance of some people who are just out to make a quick kill. I was at the Strathmore ICT conference and was suprised the way PS Ndemo was actually talking about what he does not practise. PS Ndemo talked about the students participating in start ups and also being assisted in business incubationn. How can students from Kenya be innovators when all business investments are supposed to be owned by foreigners? I listened to Mr Paul Kukubo who rushed to the defense of private sector when one of the participant asked CBA, Safariicom, and other private companies what they were doing to assist students in achieving dreams and nurturing innovation. Paul Kukubo, instead of leaving the private sectoor to answer, rushed to their defence and said that the private sector cannot do that because they are not venture capitalist. So sad Kenyans. So sad when you hear that. There is a clause of CSR on the business lincense whicch these companies are given and when Paul rush to defend companies then you realise what kind of mess we are in. I have nothing against Paul and really admire his work but let me tell you Kamotho, Alex, Maina, and all that our children and us cannot be innovators and good investors when we buildd the mentality that the foreigners are the best. The people who pose as the foreigners are actually local corrupt officials and so opportunity must be given equally. The said foreigners all come and borrow in Kenyan banks and use Kenyan expertise and those who have trried to use pure foreign expertise have failed. Kenyans lets wake up and stop seeing our children and ourselves as stupid. We are smart and caan make it and KICTANET should support us on this and not stop the people who expose cons. The cons in ICT must be stopped on their tracks. Njeri Rionge, Kukubo, Dr Adera, Gilda, Alice Kinyua, bernard Kioko, Moses Kemobaro are all local guys really setting up the pace and trend in ICt in this country. They didd what they did because they were given a chance. We must stop Dr Ndemo from giving foreigners exclusive righst in ripping this country. We have no apologies for the crooked people who have all thought that we can just spit on locals like Nick Nesbitt and Crystal watley have tried to do here. We dont owe Nick and Crystal anything. They owe us alot Regards JM ----- Original Message ---- From: kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> To: j.maina@ymail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:51:39 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Re: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests Seems like the polemical arsenal and vitriol is now shifting towards my direction. I humbly rest my case on this issue. Another topic might be a better idea for us. Kamotho Njenga On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM, <mwananchi@hushmail.com> wrote: Kamotho, If the issues are too intertwined for you to follow then you should say so and ask for simplification to enhance your ability to follow through and distinguish what is what. Nonetheless, has PS Ndemo denied the occurrence of any the facts? What PS Ndemo has, is a different interpretation of the facts and how they took place. There is no issue personally with PS Ndemo, what there are issues with are specific actions he is carrying out while in his capacity as a public servant. - Ndemo admitted he signed an MOU with Libyans. - Ndemo admitted that before he left for Malaysia he made pronouncements about changes in local shareholding requirements - Ndemo admitted he signed a "settlement agreement" with a certain foreign company - Ndemo admitted there are problems with current investment policies PS Ndemo is public servant who serves the Kenyan public not just special interests in Kictanet. If other Wananchi have found it on their own accord to forward discussions to other forums then do your duty to take it up as an issue on those forums. As PS Ndemo says, there is nothing to hide! In the same spirit of openness, Ndemo's response has also been cross posted on other discussion lists by other listers who saw it fit to do so. You see Kamotho, you've not presented a single iota of evidence or fact, just empty rhetoric and belligerence. If you have any facts, have conducted any investigations, gone to the relevant High Court registrars, consulted the Attorney General, gone to archives to determine whether what Ndemo said has been manufactured and contradicts what has been shared here, then by all means speedily share the documents and facts, debunk each specific fact and let these matters be put to rest. PS Ndemo is free to start a lawsuit against the High Court of South Africa, the High Court of Kenya and any other party all from which the facts have been sourced from so that the same facts can be gladly repeated and established under oath and public record. It is however understandable that belligerent empty rhetoric seems to be the only defence one can possibly turn to in a feeble attempt of censorship when faced with indisputable facts. Good day. Peterson On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:21:11 +0000 kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends,
Beyond question, Kenyans have a right to seek information as well clarity on any issue pertinent to the ICT sector.That right includes expressing views on matters where in ones opinion a route less than optimal in their opinion has been followed. The freedom of expression is not a preserve to any individual or group. But as a necessity such fundamental rights must be exercised within some confines of responsibility, propriety and decorum.
Without over generalizing, this is the first time that allegations have been pursued with profundity, relentlessness and zeal of a unique magnitude and has been extended beyond KICTANET. For I have personally received similar messages in my other mail accounts that are not subscribed to this forum. The personalized overtones that have accompanied the pursuit of this matter whose goal is yet to be specified can neither be denied nor ignored.
What is not in dispute is that the drivers of these allegations have their issues mixed up.At one point their claim is on MOUs, the next is on localization and at times its on "crooks" and so on. In a nutshell; alot of generalities and unguided missile whose clear intention is to finish somebody in one way or the other. Its so evident that there is an unwavering struggle to demonise the PS by depicting him in bad light. Since then, the PS has come out clearly on all points of accusations never mind that all the allegations are anchored on conjecture.
On this basis and on the premise of objectivity, one canly conclude that the authors of these allegations are at best riding on the back of far fetched malice and wallowing entirely in the miasma of hollow vendetta.The alarmist tell tales (Whistle blowing/Whistling) should be dismissed with all the contempt they deserve.
Kamotho Njenga
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 6:12 AM, <mwananchi@hushmail.com> wrote:
Dear Eric,
Some weekend reading for you, this article was directed at NEPAD and the then Finance Minister and it covers some of the issues we have been discussing.
Africa, Kimunya should seek monetary policies that serve local interests
http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8 2
62&Itemid=5821<http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content &task=view&id=8262&Itemid=5821>
"This, however, remains the quintessential question of African development: how to achieve economic independence in an international and regional context where the profit motives of
investors and lenders rarely correspond to our growth and development goals."
We simply cannot achieve economic independence when over 80
of the economy is in the hands of foreigners more so non Africans and PS Ndemo now wants to eliminate indigenous ownership requirements. Local ownership requirements did not deter the credible and serious Zain's, Vodafone's, France Telecom's, Altech's of this world from coming into Kenya. Has PS Ndemo forgotten
Kenya's FDI in the last year rose by over 1300 percent?
Is it fair that some local individuals could use multiple separate companies in which they have substantial shareholding so as to maximize their effective share of TEAMS while other legitimate local and international investors are locked out? These and other criteria (total beneficial ownership etc) need to be looked at and analysed to get to the core of the matter.
It is a pity that PS Ndemo seems to believe that it is a bad
when Peterson asks the Government to listen to local investors and take their interests into consideration while striking a balance in the same way he listens to foreign investors and makes arbitrary non-consultative policy changes just because the Nesbitt's of
world (who already have a tax holiday) have already arm twisted him behind closed doors into submission. We want these unnamed vested interests to take their case to the Kenyan public and to stop coercing public servants behind closed doors, if they can convince the public openly that what they need is good for Kenya then the public through their representatives will effect such changes openly and transparently.
As for the other matters, they don't require endorsement or agreement, the facts stand on their own, they are facts anyone can verify by going to the High Court registrar, providing the case number and obtaining the same documents and rulings. The near collapse and disrespect of our institutions is as a result of
permeation and embrace of a culture of impunity. If these institutions were respected by among others, PS Ndemo, it would not be an issue affecting the nation.
I challenge anyone with any contradicting documents to dispute
facts by presenting the same rather than attempting to assassinate the messenger for blowing the whistle.
Have a good weekend.
Regards,
Peterson
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:38:36 +0000 "Eric M.K Osiakwan" <emko@internetresearch.com.gh> wrote:
Dear Peterson,
I go with you on the wheel that the vested interest of the country in paramount.....
The elements of my case though disappointing, i went with the established criteria since was applied across board but then in the situation where most of the local companies are majority owned by non- Africans, then one needs to look into the criteria again.
The larger question, we need to raise is how do we ensure that
interest of other African investors can be unheld in another African jurisdiction, in the context of developing Africa by Africans.
You
know the TEAMS process is still ongoing so lets allow the establish procedures and policies to work, am patient and dont have any
hard
feelings at all.
The other big question that we need to answer is, these huge infrastructure projects require huge sums of money, personally
am
not a deep pocket in that sense but at least i can raise the money, may be from another African country or worse case outside the continent if the amounts are way over. The TEAMS model where public funds are used to underwrite the risk in order to ensure that the entry barriers for investment are minimised so local investors and entrepreneurs can participate are innovative and i personally want to give the TEAMS model a chance to succeed. We as Africans need to evolve solutions to our unique problems, ofcourse borrowing in same cases from others who have gone ahead.
Unfortunately, i would have to distant myself from some of the allegations though you establish them on factual basis, it would be good for the right authorities to follow it through so that we have conclusive situations. Also, those involved must be given a chance to present their side of the argument so that those in this forum can be more knowledgable. Again, if we can keep it tactful, then the common good is preserved for the sake of posterity.
Have a good weekend, good people.
On 10 Oct 2008, at 20:16, mwananchi@hushmail.com wrote:
Dear Eric,
At the end of the day, Kenyans only want the best for our nation. Kenyans certainly are not against beneficial foreign direct investment and welcome it provided it is conducted under policies that result in a win-win situation for Kenyans and the investor. Unfortunately the country's policies particularly those being fronted now do not reflect that wish, which is why it is important that the Government pay attention to what local and would be international investors are saying and strike a balance that is a win-win for both.
In your case, had PS Ndemo stuck with his proposal that he made in 2007, Internet Research would not be experiencing any hurdles. The local component would also have been preserved in a manner not detrimental to your company.
I hope that PS Ndemo will address the issue of your company. Kenya as an African country should not be deterring Kenyan or any other African investors who are credible and who operate and respect our laws and institutions instead of trampling them underfoot and in the one case that has been mentioned, deliberately failing to meet their obligations for over 4 years. These are the same types of investors who have been rejected by Altech, the nations of Papua New Guinea, Malawi, Nigeria. The same characters who failed to meet their licence obligations for years in New Zealand and were lucky to get token percentage ownership of what was left when credible investors took over and who in Lesotho have been engaged in tax and roaming link frauds.
http://rapidshare.com/files/152715858/fraud_in_lesotho.pdf
They finally found a safe haven to land in Kenya embraced by a culture of impunity where it does not matter if you meet your obligations or if you operate with cancelled licences
powerful vested interests pave and coerce the way for you.
When we reject investors whom we know such as Eric and embrace undesirable investors instead, it shows why we precisely are lagging behind in FDI. Indeed if Kenya gave investors 5 years as it did in this particular case to pay licencing fees, the country would be overwhelmed with numerous investors. As the occassion of Moi Day graces us today, the Moi government despite its many flaws was quick to realize what type of animal this was and correctly rejected them not just once but twice.
Peterson
Dear Peterson,
Thanks for establishing a set of facts and am sure the right people would respond to the issues you have riased. I hope the discussion
would continue on a factual basis and not degenerate.
I want to also present one set of facts regarding my
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:31:48 +0000 "Eric M.K Osiakwan" <emko@internetresearch.com.gh> wrote: participation
in the TEAMS project. My company, Internet Research went
most percent that thing this the the the provided through
the
entire process and indeed qualified to be allocated shares
but at
one of the proposed shareholders meeting, the issue of local ownership
came up.
-- Learn from the comfort of your home. Choose your degree and receive a free info pak.
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JohnI listened to Dr Ndemo explaining how advanced India and Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong are - the so called Tigers. And then in the next breath he started talking about FDI and Equity Bank. I started wondering what exactly is hailing Kenya. There is evidence that kikulacho kinguoni yetu. Any simple economic theorists will explain what is going on in Kenya. Dr Ndemo who is an economist can explain the life cycle of development. I am afraid, they will issue these licences, they will build it and no one will come. This has to be a mobilization effort from all of us. We can not allow them to give away our birth right. Joe On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:14 PM, John Maina <j.maina@ymail.com> wrote:
Fello Kenyans
I am actually amazed by what PS Ndemo is trying to do with the assistance of some people who are just out to make a quick kill.
I was at the Strathmore ICT conference and was suprised the way PS Ndemo was actually talking about what he does not practise. PS Ndemo talked about the students participating in start ups and also being assisted in business incubationn.
How can students from Kenya be innovators when all business investments are supposed to be owned by foreigners? I listened to Mr Paul Kukubo who rushed to the defense of private sector when one of the participant asked CBA, Safariicom, and other private companies what they were doing to assist students in achieving dreams and nurturing innovation.
Paul Kukubo, instead of leaving the private sectoor to answer, rushed to their defence and said that the private sector cannot do that because they are not venture capitalist. So sad Kenyans. So sad when you hear that. There is a clause of CSR on the business lincense whicch these companies are given and when Paul rush to defend companies then you realise what kind of mess we are in.
I have nothing against Paul and really admire his work but let me tell you Kamotho, Alex, Maina, and all that our children and us cannot be innovators and good investors when we buildd the mentality that the foreigners are the best. The people who pose as the foreigners are actually local corrupt officials and so opportunity must be given equally.
The said foreigners all come and borrow in Kenyan banks and use Kenyan expertise and those who have trried to use pure foreign expertise have failed. Kenyans lets wake up and stop seeing our children and ourselves as stupid. We are smart and caan make it and KICTANET should support us on this and not stop the people who expose cons. The cons in ICT must be stopped on their tracks. Njeri Rionge, Kukubo, Dr Adera, Gilda, Alice Kinyua, bernard Kioko, Moses Kemobaro are all local guys really setting up the pace and trend in ICt in this country.
They didd what they did because they were given a chance. We must stop Dr Ndemo from giving foreigners exclusive righst in ripping this country. We have no apologies for the crooked people who have all thought that we can just spit on locals like Nick Nesbitt and Crystal watley have tried to do here. We dont owe Nick and Crystal anything. They owe us alot
Regards
JM
----- Original Message ---- From: kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> To: j.maina@ymail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:51:39 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Re: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
Seems like the polemical arsenal and vitriol is now shifting towards my direction. I humbly rest my case on this issue. Another topic might be a better idea for us.
Kamotho Njenga
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM, <mwananchi@hushmail.com> wrote:
Kamotho,
If the issues are too intertwined for you to follow then you should say so and ask for simplification to enhance your ability to follow through and distinguish what is what.
Nonetheless, has PS Ndemo denied the occurrence of any the facts? What PS Ndemo has, is a different interpretation of the facts and how they took place. There is no issue personally with PS Ndemo, what there are issues with are specific actions he is carrying out while in his capacity as a public servant.
- Ndemo admitted he signed an MOU with Libyans.
- Ndemo admitted that before he left for Malaysia he made pronouncements about changes in local shareholding requirements
- Ndemo admitted he signed a "settlement agreement" with a certain foreign company
- Ndemo admitted there are problems with current investment policies
PS Ndemo is public servant who serves the Kenyan public not just special interests in Kictanet. If other Wananchi have found it on their own accord to forward discussions to other forums then do your duty to take it up as an issue on those forums. As PS Ndemo says, there is nothing to hide! In the same spirit of openness, Ndemo's response has also been cross posted on other discussion lists by other listers who saw it fit to do so.
You see Kamotho, you've not presented a single iota of evidence or fact, just empty rhetoric and belligerence. If you have any facts, have conducted any investigations, gone to the relevant High Court registrars, consulted the Attorney General, gone to archives to determine whether what Ndemo said has been manufactured and contradicts what has been shared here, then by all means speedily share the documents and facts, debunk each specific fact and let these matters be put to rest.
PS Ndemo is free to start a lawsuit against the High Court of South Africa, the High Court of Kenya and any other party all from which the facts have been sourced from so that the same facts can be gladly repeated and established under oath and public record. It is however understandable that belligerent empty rhetoric seems to be the only defence one can possibly turn to in a feeble attempt of censorship when faced with indisputable facts. Good day.
Peterson
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:21:11 +0000 kamotho Njenga <kamothonjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends,
Beyond question, Kenyans have a right to seek information as well clarity on any issue pertinent to the ICT sector.That right includes expressing views on matters where in ones opinion a route less than optimal in their opinion has been followed. The freedom of expression is not a preserve to any individual or group. But as a necessity such fundamental rights must be exercised within some confines of responsibility, propriety and decorum.
Without over generalizing, this is the first time that allegations have been pursued with profundity, relentlessness and zeal of a unique magnitude and has been extended beyond KICTANET. For I have personally received similar messages in my other mail accounts that are not subscribed to this forum. The personalized overtones that have accompanied the pursuit of this matter whose goal is yet to be specified can neither be denied nor ignored.
What is not in dispute is that the drivers of these allegations have their issues mixed up.At one point their claim is on MOUs, the next is on localization and at times its on "crooks" and so on. In a nutshell; alot of generalities and unguided missile whose clear intention is to finish somebody in one way or the other. Its so evident that there is an unwavering struggle to demonise the PS by depicting him in bad light. Since then, the PS has come out clearly on all points of accusations never mind that all the allegations are anchored on conjecture.
On this basis and on the premise of objectivity, one canly conclude that the authors of these allegations are at best riding on the back of far fetched malice and wallowing entirely in the miasma of hollow vendetta.The alarmist tell tales (Whistle blowing/Whistling) should be dismissed with all the contempt they deserve.
Kamotho Njenga
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 6:12 AM, <mwananchi@hushmail.com> wrote:
Dear Eric,
Some weekend reading for you, this article was directed at NEPAD and the then Finance Minister and it covers some of the issues we have been discussing.
Africa, Kimunya should seek monetary policies that serve local interests
http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8 2
62&Itemid=5821<http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content &task=view&id=8262&Itemid=5821>
"This, however, remains the quintessential question of African development: how to achieve economic independence in an international and regional context where the profit motives of
investors and lenders rarely correspond to our growth and development goals."
We simply cannot achieve economic independence when over 80
of the economy is in the hands of foreigners more so non Africans and PS Ndemo now wants to eliminate indigenous ownership requirements. Local ownership requirements did not deter the credible and serious Zain's, Vodafone's, France Telecom's, Altech's of this world from coming into Kenya. Has PS Ndemo forgotten
Kenya's FDI in the last year rose by over 1300 percent?
Is it fair that some local individuals could use multiple separate companies in which they have substantial shareholding so as to maximize their effective share of TEAMS while other legitimate local and international investors are locked out? These and other criteria (total beneficial ownership etc) need to be looked at and analysed to get to the core of the matter.
It is a pity that PS Ndemo seems to believe that it is a bad
when Peterson asks the Government to listen to local investors and take their interests into consideration while striking a balance in the same way he listens to foreign investors and makes arbitrary non-consultative policy changes just because the Nesbitt's of
world (who already have a tax holiday) have already arm twisted him behind closed doors into submission. We want these unnamed vested interests to take their case to the Kenyan public and to stop coercing public servants behind closed doors, if they can convince the public openly that what they need is good for Kenya then the public through their representatives will effect such changes openly and transparently.
As for the other matters, they don't require endorsement or agreement, the facts stand on their own, they are facts anyone can verify by going to the High Court registrar, providing the case number and obtaining the same documents and rulings. The near collapse and disrespect of our institutions is as a result of
permeation and embrace of a culture of impunity. If these institutions were respected by among others, PS Ndemo, it would not be an issue affecting the nation.
I challenge anyone with any contradicting documents to dispute
facts by presenting the same rather than attempting to assassinate the messenger for blowing the whistle.
Have a good weekend.
Regards,
Peterson
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:38:36 +0000 "Eric M.K Osiakwan" <emko@internetresearch.com.gh> wrote:
Dear Peterson,
I go with you on the wheel that the vested interest of the country in paramount.....
The elements of my case though disappointing, i went with the established criteria since was applied across board but then in the situation where most of the local companies are majority owned by non- Africans, then one needs to look into the criteria again.
The larger question, we need to raise is how do we ensure that
interest of other African investors can be unheld in another African jurisdiction, in the context of developing Africa by Africans.
You
know the TEAMS process is still ongoing so lets allow the establish procedures and policies to work, am patient and dont have any
hard
feelings at all.
The other big question that we need to answer is, these huge infrastructure projects require huge sums of money, personally
am
not a deep pocket in that sense but at least i can raise the money, may be from another African country or worse case outside the continent if the amounts are way over. The TEAMS model where public funds are used to underwrite the risk in order to ensure that the entry barriers for investment are minimised so local investors and entrepreneurs can participate are innovative and i personally want to give the TEAMS model a chance to succeed. We as Africans need to evolve solutions to our unique problems, ofcourse borrowing in same cases from others who have gone ahead.
Unfortunately, i would have to distant myself from some of the allegations though you establish them on factual basis, it would be good for the right authorities to follow it through so that we have conclusive situations. Also, those involved must be given a chance to present their side of the argument so that those in this forum can be more knowledgable. Again, if we can keep it tactful, then the common good is preserved for the sake of posterity.
Have a good weekend, good people.
On 10 Oct 2008, at 20:16, mwananchi@hushmail.com wrote:
Dear Eric,
At the end of the day, Kenyans only want the best for our nation. Kenyans certainly are not against beneficial foreign direct investment and welcome it provided it is conducted under policies that result in a win-win situation for Kenyans and the investor. Unfortunately the country's policies particularly those being fronted now do not reflect that wish, which is why it is important that the Government pay attention to what local and would be international investors are saying and strike a balance that is a win-win for both.
In your case, had PS Ndemo stuck with his proposal that he made in 2007, Internet Research would not be experiencing any hurdles. The local component would also have been preserved in a manner not detrimental to your company.
I hope that PS Ndemo will address the issue of your company. Kenya as an African country should not be deterring Kenyan or any other African investors who are credible and who operate and respect our laws and institutions instead of trampling them underfoot and in the one case that has been mentioned, deliberately failing to meet their obligations for over 4 years. These are the same types of investors who have been rejected by Altech, the nations of Papua New Guinea, Malawi, Nigeria. The same characters who failed to meet their licence obligations for years in New Zealand and were lucky to get token percentage ownership of what was left when credible investors took over and who in Lesotho have been engaged in tax and roaming link frauds.
http://rapidshare.com/files/152715858/fraud_in_lesotho.pdf
They finally found a safe haven to land in Kenya embraced by a culture of impunity where it does not matter if you meet your obligations or if you operate with cancelled licences
powerful vested interests pave and coerce the way for you.
When we reject investors whom we know such as Eric and embrace undesirable investors instead, it shows why we precisely are lagging behind in FDI. Indeed if Kenya gave investors 5 years as it did in this particular case to pay licencing fees, the country would be overwhelmed with numerous investors. As the occassion of Moi Day graces us today, the Moi government despite its many flaws was quick to realize what type of animal this was and correctly rejected them not just once but twice.
Peterson
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:31:48 +0000 "Eric M.K Osiakwan" <emko@internetresearch.com.gh> wrote: > Dear Peterson, > > Thanks for establishing a set of facts and am sure the right > people > would respond to the issues you have riased. I hope the discussion > > would continue on a factual basis and not degenerate. > > I want to also present one set of facts regarding my participation > in > the TEAMS project. My company, Internet Research went
most percent that thing this the the the provided through
the
> > entire process and indeed qualified to be allocated shares but at > one > of the proposed shareholders meeting, the issue of local ownership > > came up. >
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participants (2)
-
John Maina -
Joseph Manthi