Re: [kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 103, Issue 130
@Mwendwa - I like to see it more as a relationship between the individual and the state. Privacy to citizens, transparency from governments. Some governments hide under the sovereignty/westerners debate to close reasonable debate on these issues. The power relations between cross border data transfers is real and requires our attention but I think companies should be seen for what they do and not from where they are from. Blanket condemnation of Silicon Valley is missing the point here. Local companies here in Kenya might actually be the biggest threats to your freedom than a far off multibillion dollar co. On 17 December 2015 at 16:39, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp (Barrack Otieno) 2. Re: Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp (Mwendwa Kivuva)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com>, ISOC Kenya Chapter < isoc@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 16:02:24 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwhatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbBtv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_2015_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Mose-5FKaranja&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=TFUayDnKWSQiLJ5A5taBBVg68OqLz-jB-sZLewQkGk4&e=> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pgp.mit.edu_pks_lookup-3Fop-3Dindex-26fingerprint-3Don-26search-3D0x1529552F&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=o-aNMXG-3V1LbyMmFBOLebwzphVqejbK3fQZiyIeVeE&e=>
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ebeleokobi%40fb.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=vd2srCED3auO3LqOWReD7KwZph_GgDXPfCwES0juYsY&e=>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_roykoikai-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=FNOnOAiZmoOvPU9Lag6YJfOw55HuNe2gUUnPAaN9Zw0&e=>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 16:33:17 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from
regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB
from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about
right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
or here in English
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ebeleokobi%40fb.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet < https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: the post the platform platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
The best athletes never started as the best athletes. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
-- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F> <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja>
participants (1)
-
Mose Karanja