Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
Stephen, We are a developing country. This means that we have not achieved the full efficiencies you see in the West. The Government has done more to the poor than you admit. When you Exaggerate your numbers you weaken your arguments and you make feel as if you do not know what you are talking about. There is no average income of Ksh. 5 million in Kenya. We are going through a very difficult time in the world today. Inflation did not inform the Government that it was on the way. Non of us would have expected the crisis in the middle east. The Government has acted and still working on more mitigation measures. You have to understand that the Government is going through inspite of the many problems. There is the implementation of the New Constitution, the drought, the IDPs etc. Our moral failure greatly contributes to corruption. We must fight the vice as a people. It has penetrated every aspect of our lifes including our religious establishment. Every Monday the combined Church offering banked in the country is in excess of Ksh. 5 billion which ends up in individual pockets. Does this not affect the poor? Let us find well reasoned ways of taking our country forward. Political reforms that are going on have far greater implications on all our social evils than any period before. Have a great day. Ndemo.
Thanks Andrea. You are so apt. Perhaps Dr. Ndemo needs to find time to have a lesson or two from your argument. There is a clear difference between the reaction of "real consumers" as Eng. Wainaina and other minority middle to higher class Kenyans will argue - after affording 3 seven-course meals daily - and millions of low income earners who survive on a poor single meal a day would respond! When we argue from the comfort of our Nairobi offices, we need to take a moment and ask for instance why our domestic workers should pay for a loaf of bread as we do when we pay them Sh5K and we we have an average income of Sh5M. Lets us not be insensitive! You cant talk of ICT innovation on an empty stomach! Yes, times are hard for governments people dont have to get to the streets - but on inefficiencies, wastages and corruption that drive costs of living - is there any (innovation) of a lamguage that govt understands better? Would Mubarak and Gbagbo have left power through "innovations"? Anyway, there must be a balance between consumer demands and governments mitigation. Govts need to invest in serious commitments and communicate. They should not spring surprises on poor masses as they live large and expect poor people not to protest - in whatever best way that catches their action!
Good morning! Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+stephen=cofek.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:21:59 To: <stephen@cofek.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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This statistic quoted by Dr. Ndemo is shocking! "Every Monday the combined Church offering banked in the country is in excess of Ksh. 5 billion which ends up in individual pockets. Does this not affect the poor" Here is a quotation from the words of Jesus. *Mathew 25:41-46* Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did *it* not to one of the least of these, ye did *it* not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Is the Church listening or waiting for the government to introduce regulations? Is the Church offering solutions to alleviate the suffering of Kenyans or is it part of the problem? Etinick Mutinda On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Stephen, We are a developing country. This means that we have not achieved the full efficiencies you see in the West. The Government has done more to the poor than you admit. When you Exaggerate your numbers you weaken your arguments and you make feel as if you do not know what you are talking about. There is no average income of Ksh. 5 million in Kenya. We are going through a very difficult time in the world today. Inflation did not inform the Government that it was on the way. Non of us would have expected the crisis in the middle east. The Government has acted and still working on more mitigation measures.
You have to understand that the Government is going through inspite of the many problems. There is the implementation of the New Constitution, the drought, the IDPs etc. Our moral failure greatly contributes to corruption. We must fight the vice as a people. It has penetrated every aspect of our lifes including our religious establishment. Every Monday the combined Church offering banked in the country is in excess of Ksh. 5 billion which ends up in individual pockets. Does this not affect the poor? Let us find well reasoned ways of taking our country forward. Political reforms that are going on have far greater implications on all our social evils than any period before.
Have a great day.
Ndemo.
Thanks Andrea. You are so apt. Perhaps Dr. Ndemo needs to find time to have a lesson or two from your argument. There is a clear difference between the reaction of "real consumers" as Eng. Wainaina and other minority middle to higher class Kenyans will argue - after affording 3 seven-course meals daily - and millions of low income earners who survive on a poor single meal a day would respond! When we argue from the comfort of our Nairobi offices, we need to take a moment and ask for instance why our domestic workers should pay for a loaf of bread as we do when we pay them Sh5K and we we have an average income of Sh5M. Lets us not be insensitive! You cant talk of ICT innovation on an empty stomach! Yes, times are hard for governments people dont have to get to the streets - but on inefficiencies, wastages and corruption that drive costs of living - is there any (innovation) of a lamguage that govt understands better? Would Mubarak and Gbagbo have left power through "innovations"? Anyway, there must be a balance between consumer demands and governments mitigation. Govts need to invest in serious commitments and communicate. They should not spring surprises on poor masses as they live large and expect poor people not to protest - in whatever best way that catches their action!
Good morning! Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt@ratio-magazine.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+stephen=cofek.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:21:59 To: <stephen@cofek.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
BTW, Dr. Ndemo's official car is a mild consuming VW Passat and not a Mercedes. I would like to raise some issues which might deviate from the main list content. My Economics for Engineers class taught me this as a basic. International trade is a result of the factors of production: Countries export what they can produce efficiently and import what they cant produce efficiently but is produced efficiently by other countries. Kenya produces maize with lesser resources than Japan would (theoretically) while Japan produces cars at lesser resources than Kenya would. *Electricity: *Why do we use diesel to produce electricity, talk about Nuclear while Geothermal potential in the country is yet to be fully exploited? *Petroleum: *Why don't we let oil marketers import their own oil, rather than but from a bid winner? Why must oil be processed at a very inefficent refinery with high costs while we can import refined oil at cheaper costs? *Sugar: *Why does our sugar cost twice as much as the sugar from our COMESA neighbours? Shall we be able to protect our sugar industry for long from cheaper imports? *Coffee: *Why is our coffee processed outside the country? Is it true that a farmer willing to process his own coffee must first auction it at the Nairobi auction where he must be the highest bidder? Do the jobless in Kiambu County know that hand roasted coffee is sold at a premium? *Coconut Milk*: Why is this imported from Indonesia while the cost watches? *Manual vs Mechanised labour: *Does this need debate? refer to http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/22002-labour-activists-keepi... End of Rant:
indeed @kioko is right on the fundamentals which ill hasten to add that in the ideal scenario should be the case. the dynamics of this however are affected by a coctail of consequences including poor leadership at the national level to local family politics that affects decision in agronomy of things like coconut. (that said there is totally no excuse why no coconut regeneration program has been in place since independence which explains why coconut production is on the decline since we already hit the 40 year production window and are now gradually decellerating in the production). On the issue of churches, "Sadaka" is a form of voluntary tax. I suspect that by "regulate" daktari implies something in the realms of tax, which would amount to taxing tax. That said, how many universities are offering training in theology? administration and finance management? do these church administrators go to these schools ? shouldnt these schools be censored for the quality of their output? maybe we should censor the lecturers via UASU, or maybe their lecturers.... its a vicious cycle. Additionally, oversight role introduces an issue of moral authority. current government leadership and current church leadership (used lightly in both cases) are a lost lot of which none has moral authority over the other. On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
BTW, Dr. Ndemo's official car is a mild consuming VW Passat and not a Mercedes.
I would like to raise some issues which might deviate from the main list content.
My Economics for Engineers class taught me this as a basic. International trade is a result of the factors of production: Countries export what they can produce efficiently and import what they cant produce efficiently but is produced efficiently by other countries. Kenya produces maize with lesser resources than Japan would (theoretically) while Japan produces cars at lesser resources than Kenya would.
*Electricity: *Why do we use diesel to produce electricity, talk about Nuclear while Geothermal potential in the country is yet to be fully exploited? *Petroleum: *Why don't we let oil marketers import their own oil, rather than but from a bid winner? Why must oil be processed at a very inefficent refinery with high costs while we can import refined oil at cheaper costs? *Sugar: *Why does our sugar cost twice as much as the sugar from our COMESA neighbours? Shall we be able to protect our sugar industry for long from cheaper imports? *Coffee: *Why is our coffee processed outside the country? Is it true that a farmer willing to process his own coffee must first auction it at the Nairobi auction where he must be the highest bidder? Do the jobless in Kiambu County know that hand roasted coffee is sold at a premium? *Coconut Milk*: Why is this imported from Indonesia while the cost watches? *Manual vs Mechanised labour: *Does this need debate? refer to http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/22002-labour-activists-keepi...
End of Rant:
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
Dennis, These are the questions that will shape our future. In the Vision 2030, the Political pillars requires issue based politics. These are the issues we want our political leaders must address. We also must shape up in terms of having decisions made by the leaders implementable. For example, in the 1970's and 1980's, the Districts of Kiambu, Muranga, Kisii, Nyeri, Meru, Maragori and greater western Kenya including the parts of the Rift Valley produced about 30 bags per an acre. These were the most productive parts of this country. Today except for the Rift Valley, most of these districts hardly produce 5 bags of maize per an acre. Yet at the same time population has trebled. At independence our population was 7 million. Britain's population was 53 million. Today while our population is approaching 40 million, Britain's is 61 million. The reasons for declining productivity is subdivision of land and unplanned families. These are issues that Government alone cannot effect. A family whose only asset is a two acre land has 12 children. When you ask why commit such suicide. Often the answer is children belong to God. This is wrong because God only helps those who can help themselves. What I am trying to say here is that answers to our problems lie with us. We must begin to plan and make sense out of it. Then hold our leaders accountable to such issues as economic development. In our sector, infrastructure is a head of applications and content. We are losing our competitive adge to version 0 culture. We must make it easier for real development of our people to take place. Regards Ndemo.
BTW, Dr. Ndemo's official car is a mild consuming VW Passat and not a Mercedes.
I would like to raise some issues which might deviate from the main list content.
My Economics for Engineers class taught me this as a basic. International trade is a result of the factors of production: Countries export what they can produce efficiently and import what they cant produce efficiently but is produced efficiently by other countries. Kenya produces maize with lesser resources than Japan would (theoretically) while Japan produces cars at lesser resources than Kenya would.
*Electricity: *Why do we use diesel to produce electricity, talk about Nuclear while Geothermal potential in the country is yet to be fully exploited? *Petroleum: *Why don't we let oil marketers import their own oil, rather than but from a bid winner? Why must oil be processed at a very inefficent refinery with high costs while we can import refined oil at cheaper costs? *Sugar: *Why does our sugar cost twice as much as the sugar from our COMESA neighbours? Shall we be able to protect our sugar industry for long from cheaper imports? *Coffee: *Why is our coffee processed outside the country? Is it true that a farmer willing to process his own coffee must first auction it at the Nairobi auction where he must be the highest bidder? Do the jobless in Kiambu County know that hand roasted coffee is sold at a premium? *Coconut Milk*: Why is this imported from Indonesia while the cost watches? *Manual vs Mechanised labour: *Does this need debate? refer to http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/22002-labour-activists-keepi...
End of Rant:
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Hi, From the post of the friendly PS Ndemo and the contribution by Nnenna on the issue of who is government it seems we have got our issues all mixed up. Of the Prime Minister and President who runs the government and who runs the state? If I was to become president I would want to retain the post of Prime Minister a.k.a chief co-ordinator and give the post to Dr. Ndemo then I can sit pretty in State House and water the roses while he nyoroshas Kenyans into shape. Mine will just be to have access to the internet kill switch. Regards PS. Kenya, the only country in the world that knows all its problems in detail, has all the solution at its fingertip but does nothing about it. (Si vumili kuwa mkenya kwakuwa nilizaliwa mkenya) Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wed, 27 April, 2011 13:35:55 Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks Dennis, These are the questions that will shape our future. In the Vision 2030, the Political pillars requires issue based politics. These are the issues we want our political leaders must address. We also must shape up in terms of having decisions made by the leaders implementable. For example, in the 1970's and 1980's, the Districts of Kiambu, Muranga, Kisii, Nyeri, Meru, Maragori and greater western Kenya including the parts of the Rift Valley produced about 30 bags per an acre. These were the most productive parts of this country. Today except for the Rift Valley, most of these districts hardly produce 5 bags of maize per an acre. Yet at the same time population has trebled. At independence our population was 7 million. Britain's population was 53 million. Today while our population is approaching 40 million, Britain's is 61 million. The reasons for declining productivity is subdivision of land and unplanned families. These are issues that Government alone cannot effect. A family whose only asset is a two acre land has 12 children. When you ask why commit such suicide. Often the answer is children belong to God. This is wrong because God only helps those who can help themselves. What I am trying to say here is that answers to our problems lie with us. We must begin to plan and make sense out of it. Then hold our leaders accountable to such issues as economic development. In our sector, infrastructure is a head of applications and content. We are losing our competitive adge to version 0 culture. We must make it easier for real development of our people to take place. Regards Ndemo.
BTW, Dr. Ndemo's official car is a mild consuming VW Passat and not a Mercedes.
I would like to raise some issues which might deviate from the main list content.
My Economics for Engineers class taught me this as a basic. International trade is a result of the factors of production: Countries export what they can produce efficiently and import what they cant produce efficiently but is produced efficiently by other countries. Kenya produces maize with lesser resources than Japan would (theoretically) while Japan produces cars at lesser resources than Kenya would.
*Electricity: *Why do we use diesel to produce electricity, talk about Nuclear while Geothermal potential in the country is yet to be fully exploited? *Petroleum: *Why don't we let oil marketers import their own oil, rather than but from a bid winner? Why must oil be processed at a very inefficent refinery with high costs while we can import refined oil at cheaper costs? *Sugar: *Why does our sugar cost twice as much as the sugar from our COMESA neighbours? Shall we be able to protect our sugar industry for long from cheaper imports? *Coffee: *Why is our coffee processed outside the country? Is it true that a farmer willing to process his own coffee must first auction it at the Nairobi auction where he must be the highest bidder? Do the jobless in Kiambu County know that hand roasted coffee is sold at a premium? *Coconut Milk*: Why is this imported from Indonesia while the cost watches? *Manual vs Mechanised labour: *Does this need debate? refer to http://the-star.co.ke/business/andrea-bohnstedt/22002-labour-activists-keepi... t
End of Rant:
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (5)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Dennis Kioko -
Etinick Mutinda -
robert yawe