There is this notion i have seen with different Security Firms which believe as long as they have tools, they can do penetration testing for everyone. This is wrong, since real blackhat hackers, the ones whom are defending your clients from don't use automation to break into these infrastructures. Script Kids will do that, and if a Security Firm is doing that too, then you hired script-kids-company (quarks) too. I think its important people start doing things with passion especially with the service industry, get into extra miles, show these organizations how real blackhats will bypass restrictions and security, not nmap an metasplout snapshots. Lets stop failing our country, especially with Cyber Warfare already backing each door in our infrastructures. ./Chucks -- -- Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester jgichuki at inbox d0t com {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/