Hi, I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification. As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge. Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the point of making computer users truly IT proficient. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
Robert, We are still fighting the resistance from the colleges. There must be some examining body to ensure that the sylabbus is covered and the student can make good use of the training. Unfortunately, in this country we want to make money at the expense of our unsuspecting sisters and brothers. Regards Ndemo.
Hi,
I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification.
As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge.
Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the point of making computer users truly IT proficient.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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Hello Robert, Do colleges still teach FrontPage?! This would be considered a distaster for students learning web design and development as it was replaced by Expression Web, part of the Expression Studio. The last release of Frontpage was 2003 while Expression Web was introduced in 2006. This is really bad because some of the bright students may eventually end up in Govt ICT sections and might explain the sometimes terrible sites we hear of. The world has moved to so much diversity in Web technologies. The college should be banned! The is a need to ensure that Colleges receive ratings on material they teach and a monitoring system kept in place to ensure they are not abusing the system. My view shared. Rgds. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:06 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi, I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification. As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge. Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the point of making computer users truly IT proficient. Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
I have no issue with the ICDL as a curriculum. I do however have an issue with how much it costs to be a training and testing center and the prices charged for certification. Is there something the government can do in that regard? Best, Crystal On 7/30/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification.
As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge.
Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the point of making computer users truly IT proficient.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
Crystal, you have hit the right note. Maybe the government might have lobbied KASNEB or KNEC to come up with a more affordable computer basics course, where even students can learn on their own and book exams, as it happens to KNEC and KASNEB examinations. The reason cheap colleges continue to attract willing and desperate students is because they are able to charge KES4,000 to offer the bogus packages. regards Mwendwa Kivuva On 31 July 2010 14:18, Crystal Watley Kigoni <crystal@voicesofafrica.org>wrote:
I have no issue with the ICDL as a curriculum. I do however have an issue with how much it costs to be a training and testing center and the prices charged for certification. Is there something the government can do in that regard?
Best,
Crystal
Hi,
I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification.
As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge.
Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the
On 7/30/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: point
of making computer users truly IT proficient.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae
Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa
"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
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Mwendwa, The cheap college attracting students on bogus packages is a crime. Though am not a web developer and from an ICT view, what the colleges are doing is pure fraud. They need to be shut down as allowing some middle ground and accepting that educational costs are expensive and therefore they are free to con innocent kenyans is beyond unacceptable. Here is why I think it is a crime : 1) Student pays Ksh 4,000/- to learn FrontPage 2) FrontPage is installed on College computers 3) Since the FrontPage product ended life a few years ago, where did the college get software license keys ( pirated software ? ) for installation, updates etc 4) Student learns to build FrontPage Server side scripts by creating forms that allow web users to sign on personal information 5) Student is content that he/she has learnt about the web and can now design websites etc. Facts : 1) FrontPage Server side scritps were End Of Life product in 2008. Designing web sites with FronPage that use these scripts are not supported. 2) Student leaves college. Where will he/she apply the knowledge learnt since the infrastructure does not exist? For a website to work, it must have a server. Its like saying one can use Netscape Composer to create website. Where is Netscape these days? 3) Student discovers that they have just been conned! It should be an offense to teach old or outdated technologies, especially for financial gain. If its a hobby, that's a different matter. My view. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:34 PM, lordmwesh <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote:
The reason cheap colleges continue to attract willing and desperate students is because they are able to charge KES4,000 to offer the bogus packages.
regards Mwendwa Kivuva
Listers, On 31/07/2010, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Mwendwa,
The cheap college attracting students on bogus packages is a crime.
As long as there is no law which defines a bogus college from a genuine one, the proprietors of these bogus colleges will continue making a kill. As someone from the education sector, the loophole is in the Education Act, which was last reviewed in 1981. But there are some effort to review the Act to be more relative to the needs of the current Kenya.
Though am not a web developer and from an ICT view, what the colleges are doing is pure fraud. They need to be shut down as allowing some middle ground and accepting that educational costs are expensive and therefore they are free to con innocent kenyans is beyond unacceptable.
Again, the law will determine what is legal. There are some colleges which offer 'sponsored' packages at 'cheap bundled' rates, which they call ICT. IMHO, ICT is more than learning a few packages! Can there be a way to contain these bogus institutions which are out there with an aim of fleecing the unsuspecting students or Kenyans in general? A pubished list of shame, probably? Regards,
Here is why I think it is a crime :
1) Student pays Ksh 4,000/- to learn FrontPage 2) FrontPage is installed on College computers 3) Since the FrontPage product ended life a few years ago, where did the college get software license keys ( pirated software ? ) for installation, updates etc 4) Student learns to build FrontPage Server side scripts by creating forms that allow web users to sign on personal information 5) Student is content that he/she has learnt about the web and can now design websites etc.
Facts :
1) FrontPage Server side scritps were End Of Life product in 2008. Designing web sites with FronPage that use these scripts are not supported.
2) Student leaves college. Where will he/she apply the knowledge learnt since the infrastructure does not exist? For a website to work, it must have a server. Its like saying one can use Netscape Composer to create website. Where is Netscape these days?
3) Student discovers that they have just been conned!
It should be an offense to teach old or outdated technologies, especially for financial gain. If its a hobby, that's a different matter.
My view.
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:34 PM, lordmwesh <lordmwesh@gmail.com> wrote:
The reason cheap colleges continue to attract willing and desperate students is because they are able to charge KES4,000 to offer the bogus packages.
regards Mwendwa Kivuva
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Solomon, I can think of one scenario as interim solution, at least until some act is passed criminalizing teaching of outdated technologies for financial gain. There has be to very agressive public awareness. This awareness can be done by those in Authority on what it recommends as the minimum ICT training levels necessary each year. Whether closed or open source, the minimum standards need to be driven into public areas. A fitting slogan would " Have you checked if your training courses are current? If not, chances are your are being cheated! " The data for minimum requirements needs to be published on the www, papers, media etc : The data that establised minimum skill levels should be freely available. The more informative the data is, the more educated decisions students and parents can make. I believe the marketing of study requirements will mean no one needs to talk to any college about upgrading/changing their curriculm. They will be forced to do the right thing along economic lines. Sorry we just cannot have criminals running education facilites. This has to stop. Finally those who think education should be cheap are very right. Unfortunately this is not happening worldwide and we are still paying hefty amounts for e-education, depending on what sector you are in. This is the reality. My view. Regards.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. Most rural computer training facilities cannot afford and are ignorant of standardization. Our ngo is trying to implement an icdl curriculum but cant afford the testing and procedures. We are working with a number of government youth empowerments centers. These centers are extremely short of resources including hardware, software,curriculum, and qualified teachers. If we are to accomplish vision 2030 and tackle youth unemployment we need to stop talking and starting acting. The new constitution is one critical step, but will do little unless we take bold actions. Best, Crystal On 7/31/10, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Solomon,
I can think of one scenario as interim solution, at least until some act is passed criminalizing teaching of outdated technologies for financial gain.
There has be to very agressive public awareness. This awareness can be done by those in Authority on what it recommends as the minimum ICT training levels necessary each year. Whether closed or open source, the minimum standards need to be driven into public areas. A fitting slogan would " Have you checked if your training courses are current? If not, chances are your are being cheated! " The data for minimum requirements needs to be published on the www, papers, media etc : The data that establised minimum skill levels should be freely available. The more informative the data is, the more educated decisions students and parents can make.
I believe the marketing of study requirements will mean no one needs to talk to any college about upgrading/changing their curriculm. They will be forced to do the right thing along economic lines.
Sorry we just cannot have criminals running education facilites. This has to stop.
Finally those who think education should be cheap are very right. Unfortunately this is not happening worldwide and we are still paying hefty amounts for e-education, depending on what sector you are in. This is the reality.
My view.
Regards.
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
Good day, Crystal, I'm just curious to know how you are tackling the issue on shortages of ICT teachers.We know that a good curriculum without good facilitators cannot yield much. I'm sure the issue of hardware and software can be sorted out by open source software and 2nd hand PCs. The PCs can be donated anyway, although I'm not sure of the direction that was taken with the issue of 2nd hand PCs. Regards, Okech JMMy blog --- On Sat, 7/31/10, Crystal Watley Kigoni <crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote: From: Crystal Watley Kigoni <crystal@voicesofafrica.org> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICDL - I apologise To: okechjr@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 1:56 PM If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. Most rural computer training facilities cannot afford and are ignorant of standardization. Our ngo is trying to implement an icdl curriculum but cant afford the testing and procedures. We are working with a number of government youth empowerments centers. These centers are extremely short of resources including hardware, software,curriculum, and qualified teachers. If we are to accomplish vision 2030 and tackle youth unemployment we need to stop talking and starting acting. The new constitution is one critical step, but will do little unless we take bold actions. Best, Crystal On 7/31/10, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Solomon,
I can think of one scenario as interim solution, at least until some act is passed criminalizing teaching of outdated technologies for financial gain.
There has be to very agressive public awareness. This awareness can be done by those in Authority on what it recommends as the minimum ICT training levels necessary each year. Whether closed or open source, the minimum standards need to be driven into public areas. A fitting slogan would " Have you checked if your training courses are current? If not, chances are your are being cheated! " The data for minimum requirements needs to be published on the www, papers, media etc : The data that establised minimum skill levels should be freely available. The more informative the data is, the more educated decisions students and parents can make.
I believe the marketing of study requirements will mean no one needs to talk to any college about upgrading/changing their curriculm. They will be forced to do the right thing along economic lines.
Sorry we just cannot have criminals running education facilites. This has to stop.
Finally those who think education should be cheap are very right. Unfortunately this is not happening worldwide and we are still paying hefty amounts for e-education, depending on what sector you are in. This is the reality.
My view.
Regards.
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: okechjr@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okechjr%40yahoo.com
Okech, I'm a bit baffled that we still need ICT teachers or good facilitators in this age. I ponder on these question. Has anyone considered E-Education? Why not build a centralised E-ICT education system that can be accessed from anywhere in kenya? The study material can accessed remotely, be bundled on disc players or even mp3 format. A centralised testing centre with remote access can provide the exam facilities, under supervision. If there is a shortage of ICT teachers, we should be looking at E-Education as a solution to these problems. The rest of the world is doing it, why are we stuck with the human element? Just some thoughts on my part, Regards.
There is something that Dr. Ndemo has pointed out: Bureacracy is slowing things down. While technology changes on a daily basis, our system of doing things decelerates everything. However, all these come as a result of people not willing to adapt to change or seeing anything new as a threat to status quo. This skepticism is a major challenge to reforms in all the sectors of national development agenda. I hope after Wednesday' plebiscite, we shall have a change in the mindset. On 01/08/2010, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Okech,
I'm a bit baffled that we still need ICT teachers or good facilitators in this age.
I ponder on these question. Has anyone considered E-Education? Why not build a centralised E-ICT education system that can be accessed from anywhere in kenya? The study material can accessed remotely, be bundled on disc players or even mp3 format. A centralised testing centre with remote access can provide the exam facilities, under supervision.
If there is a shortage of ICT teachers, we should be looking at E-Education as a solution to these problems. The rest of the world is doing it, why are we stuck with the human element?
Just some thoughts on my part,
Regards.
-- Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau ***************************************************** Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
Dear Listners, I think what is important in such matters is the structures and processes that is important. Some of these packages change so fast and and are driven by a monopoly - Microsoft we had office 2003 then 2007 now Web Apps in two years something else. We therefore need to come up with a clear direction how we want our training to be and now pointing particular packages to be taught. To some extent i support our universities on this aspect. Regards, Sam Aguyo
The problem with us as Walubengo has clearly said is resistance to any change. I mean any change including technology update. Some of our University curicula in technology courses is some years behind the current state of technology. In some cases lecturers are willing to change but bureaucracy delays everything. Do we want to have a stagnated Kenyan ICDL because it is expensive? Coming up with a revised education Act or any other law for that matter will take five years. Solution: Vote yes on Wednesday. With the change, you will have a specialized cabinet to make regular changes to laws as we need them. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Crystal Watley Kigoni <crystal@voicesofafrica.org> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:18:43 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICDL - I apologise I have no issue with the ICDL as a curriculum. I do however have an issue with how much it costs to be a training and testing center and the prices charged for certification. Is there something the government can do in that regard? Best, Crystal On 7/30/10, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I would like to apologise to Dr. Ndemo for giving the impression that his team had not done their homework when they recommended that ICDL be the official computer proficiency certification.
As is said it is only after you have walked in a man's shoes can you then criticise him, I recently looked at a training manual from one of the local computer colleges that was 10 pages long and covered word, excel, powerpoint, access, frontpage and IE. The exam for each subject was done after 1 day of training, in the case of word it included mailmerge.
Each application was covered on less than 2 pages and the entire course takes 10 days, Dr. Ndemo the sooner you can operationalise the ICDL issue the sooner students will stop loosing money to quacks and we shall return to the point of making computer users truly IT proficient.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Intersat Africa, Ltd Rural Internet Kiosks Project Coordinator crystal.kigoni@intersat.ae Twitter: VOA_Crystal Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
participants (8)
-
aki -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Crystal Watley Kigoni -
lordmwesh -
Okech -
robert yawe -
Sam Aguyo -
Solomon Mburu Kamau