Law to ban persons not returning money received by error
Listers, Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi: "There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
Hi Daudi, This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate. Best Regards On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Listers, I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... . The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1) A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property. Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644 On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
Chemu, the issue you are raising was one of the arguments made against criminalising erroneous transactions when the Cybercrimes Act was being debated. However, it still made it to the law. Section 35: A person who intentionally hides or detains any electronic mail, message, electronic payment, credit and debit card which was found by the person or delivered to the person in error and which ought to be delivered to another person, commits an offence and is liable on conviction a fine not exceeding two hundred thousand shillings or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both. On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 10:22, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Listers,
I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... .
The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1)
A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property.
Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Grace Mutung'u Skype: gracebomu @Bomu PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
Hi Listers, I agree with Barrack and Rosemary on the rights issue as well as the existing law. This discussion seems to target mobile money users. There should be in-built mechanisms within the ecosystem of the mobile money platforms for a) reversal ( which already exists, it just needs to be streamlined; and b) attaching the penalties Rosemary has already pointed out if indeed it is proven that a person has obtained the money fraudulently by refusing to reverse it. Furthermore, I think such a law can cause people to lose money to the real thieves who send messages to people claiming to have sent it erroneously. Just the mere panic and confusion that they cause when they incessantly call the supposed recipient is enough to make someone send money they never received in the first place to conmen and women. It is already happening anyway, so one can only imagine if there is a law on this how worse it can get. Best Beryl On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:24 AM Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Listers,
I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... .
The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1)
A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property.
Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bee.aidi%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Beryl *********************************************** Beryl Aidi Freelance Communication Specialist Skype: beryl.aidi Twitter: @thespannergal Darkness cannot put out the Light. It can only make God brighter. —Author Unknown.
I think to this regard the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act offers a solution. It creates the offence under Section 35. "person who* intentionally hides or detains* any electronic mail, *message, electronic payment*, credit and debit card which was found by the person or *delivered to the person in error* and which *ought to be delivered to another person*, commits an offence and is liable on conviction a fine not exceeding two hundred thousand shillings or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both". Or what do you think? On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:23 AM Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Listers,
I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... .
The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1)
A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property.
Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okoyocybertech%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Coming from the thought that Safaricom should have implemented this ages ago, I am wondering if perhaps they would think that's stretching their 'business mandate' too far? Like their business is to allow you to send and receive money, period. However, I guess the issue of responsible business comes up. One of the easiest things I would think they can do is to send a message to the wrong recipient as soon as possible and ask them to make the reversal, failure to which they read them the riot act as explained in the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act cited above? Back in the day, when they used to have system errors and it would be possible to make free calls, they'd be able to charge your account in retrospect as soon as the system was fixed. In which case, it should be possible to provide a reprieve to the aggrieved Mpesa user... On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 10:50, Okoyo Gabriel via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think to this regard the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act offers a solution. It creates the offence under Section 35.
"person who* intentionally hides or detains* any electronic mail, *message, electronic payment*, credit and debit card which was found by the person or *delivered to the person in error* and which *ought to be delivered to another person*, commits an offence and is liable on conviction a fine not exceeding two hundred thousand shillings or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both".
Or what do you think?
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:23 AM Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Listers,
I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... .
The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1)
A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property.
Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okoyocybertech%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kathymwai%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Dream and Your Dreams Will Fall Short <kathymwai@gmail.com>...*
Hi Bomu, Kathy, Beryl, Maria, Gabriel and Waudo I agree that Section 35 of the Computer Misuse and Cybercrimes Act is quite clear on this however I argue that ingredients for crime were adequately catered for under previous legal regimes. My worry is the obsession we sometimes have with attacking service providers for crimes committed by platform users and trying to apportion blame to the service provider who is basically a pipeline for value. If today someone withdraws money that was erroneously sent having attempted a reversal and maybe failed, basic procedures like filing an OB must be followed. Complaints are valid but to the right audience in this case should be, to quote Akothee, "Call polis!" Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644 On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:08 AM Kathy Mwai via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Coming from the thought that Safaricom should have implemented this ages ago, I am wondering if perhaps they would think that's stretching their 'business mandate' too far? Like their business is to allow you to send and receive money, period. However, I guess the issue of responsible business comes up. One of the easiest things I would think they can do is to send a message to the wrong recipient as soon as possible and ask them to make the reversal, failure to which they read them the riot act as explained in the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act cited above? Back in the day, when they used to have system errors and it would be possible to make free calls, they'd be able to charge your account in retrospect as soon as the system was fixed. In which case, it should be possible to provide a reprieve to the aggrieved Mpesa user...
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 10:50, Okoyo Gabriel via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I think to this regard the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act offers a solution. It creates the offence under Section 35.
"person who* intentionally hides or detains* any electronic mail, *message, electronic payment*, credit and debit card which was found by the person or *delivered to the person in error* and which *ought to be delivered to another person*, commits an offence and is liable on conviction a fine not exceeding two hundred thousand shillings or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both".
Or what do you think?
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:23 AM Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Listers,
I come from the school of thought where we don't need to come up with laws for every seemingly new vice perpetrated through technology. This is theft, similar to the case of the guy from Embu who build a house with money erroneously deposited in his bank account https://nairobiwire.com/2020/06/man-in-tight-spot-after-building-house-with-... .
The Penal Code CAP 63: 268. Definition of stealing (1)
A person who fraudulently and without claim of right takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to the use of any person, other than the general or special owner thereof, any property, is said to steal that thing or property.
Kind regards, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Head of Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs - Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Daudi,
This is extreme, i think a crime should be separated from basic rights to communicate.
Best Regards
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 8:31 am David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okoyocybertech%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kathymwai%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Dream and Your Dreams Will Fall Short <kathymwai@gmail.com>...*
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu Advocate Legal and Regulatory Specialist- Oxygene MCL Tel: +254 718 181644
Listers: This is the best NEWS in a long time! But why Safaricom never initiated this is mind puzzling cos it's become such a BIG NIGHTMARE! Thanking God for Activists like Boniface Mwangi! While I disagree with some of his approaches, on this one KUDOS to him! Kenyans are too innovative even in crimes there must be deterrents On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 08:32 David Indeje via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mariangunyi%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
That's interesting. I just wonder why the owner of a line should be responsible for managing the money of another careless person who sends it to his/her phone. Imagine if you receive hundreds of payments, e.g. if you run an SME and someone wants you jailed claiming that they sent you money which you never returned. I think the responsibility for the money should just be on the sender, after all MPESA has multiple safeguards when sending money including asking severally for the consent of the sender plus a reverse function if necessary. There should be no legal obligation to a person whose line is used to receive erroneous amounts without their permission. In fact if someone uses my line without my permission for financial transactions that do not relate to me I can easily sue them. That can be an opening for money laundering. Those are my thoughts. On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, at 8:31 AM, David Indeje via kictanet wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Okoyo Gabriel 10:49 AM (0 minutes ago) to *Rosemary*, KICTAnet I think to this regard the Computer Misuse and Cybercrime Act offers a solution. It creates the offence under Section 35. "person who* intentionally hides or detains* any electronic mail, *message, electronic payment*, credit and debit card which was found by the person or *delivered to the person in error* and which *ought to be delivered to another person*, commits an offence and is liable on conviction a fine not exceeding two hundred thousand shillings or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both". But you can still argue around it., Or what do you think? Okoyo Gabriel Director: Gabriel Cyber & Data Laws Consultants okoyocybertech@gmail.com 0723788399. On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 8:32 AM David Indeje via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/okoyocybertech%40gmail...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Interesting. I appreciate the issues. I however think banning someone from access to communication/registering a SIM is disproportionate to the crime committed. Mutindi Muema Advocate Technology|Media|Telecoms|Medical On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 08:32 David Indeje via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Something is being disccused online, initiated by Mr Boniface Mwangi:
"There should be a law that anyone who receives mobile money by error and refuses to reverse the transaction should be banned from owning a mobile line. All mobile numbers are supposed to be registered using an ID and that persons ID should be flagged to never transact again." https://twitter.com/bonifacemwangi/status/1275659504647057411?s=19
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/missmutindi%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (10)
-
Barrack Otieno -
Beryl Aidi -
David Indeje -
Grace Bomu -
Kathy Mwai -
maria＠afrikaict -
Mutindi Muema -
Okoyo Gabriel -
Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu -
waudo siganga