That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:- 1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue! Regards *Ali Hussein* Fintech | Digital Transformation Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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Ohaga Question - Are we sure that the one payment gateway directive also affects counties? And even so, there are ways that this can be made to go directly to the respective counties. Fintech solves this issue. It's not rocket science. I still contend that this is an execution and project management issue. Nowhere in our constitution is this prohibited. However, constitutional lawyers can chime in here. Regards *Ali Hussein* Fintech | Digital Transformation Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 1:20 PM Ohaga JB <durojb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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Ohaga Your points are valid. There definitely should have been a better engagement process by the National Government. So on this point, I withdraw my nuisance remark. 😅 When I say project management and implementation issues, any Project Manager worth their salt would tell you that one of the major reasons projects fail is because we fail in communication. Hence why I'm focusing more on the implementation. The idea is a great one. What the government should do more is stakeholder management. Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:43 pm Ohaga JB, <durojb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Ali.

Thank you for the clarification that the issue affecting county revenue can be sorted to go to them directly. That is helpful to know. However, did the counties ask for this solution? Don't counties have the right to determine how they collect their revenue? Just because something appears good (open to interpretation by the way) does not mean that you dictate its implementation. There are processes for getting the same to be adopted. There's a question to be answered here about the separation of powers in regards to revenue collection even as you work through the project management/execution issues.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 1:30 PM Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

...

Ohaga

Question - Are we sure that the one payment gateway directive also affects counties? And even so, there are ways that this can be made to go directly to the respective counties. Fintech solves this issue. It's not rocket science.

I still contend that this is an execution and project management issue. Nowhere in our constitution is this prohibited. However, constitutional lawyers can chime in here.

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 1:20 PM Ohaga JB <durojb@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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@mwendwaKivuva asks. What level of autonomy do State Corporations have? I guess that’s the prerogative of the government to decide. I see the point in JBs comments and @ Ali Hussein’s comments as well. Just wondering for debates sake again whether such a move would stifle innovation in the fintech sector since government is a major spender. Best Regards On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:25, Ohaga JB via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

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@Ali Hussein. I concur💯 Great insights and way to go. Br, Paul Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Aug 2023, at 13:41, Ali Hussein via KICTANet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

 Barrack

Curious. How would this government decision stifle innovation? On the contrary, this creates a great opportunity for the Fintech Ecosystem to innovate on top of the Gateway.

Here's my concern (and I suppose that's the reason some people are going to court! 😅) :-

For how long are we going to pay for payments? Why would someone charge you for making a payment? This is not something we have asked as Kenyans...time we do!

Ali Hussein

Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

...

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm Barrack Otieno via KICTANet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @mwendwaKivuva asks. What level of autonomy do State Corporations have? I guess that’s the prerogative of the government to decide. I see the point in JBs comments and @ Ali Hussein’s comments as well. Just wondering for debates sake again whether such a move would stifle innovation in the fintech sector since government is a major spender.

Best Regards

...

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:25, Ohaga JB via KICTANet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, there is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

...

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva. I actually think that this is a nuisance case. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

Ali Hussein Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim LinkedIn: Ali's Profile

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

...

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

...

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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---

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Barrack I don't really understand what you mean by the 'the days of Kenswitch'. Kenswitch was great progress in its days and I'd say one of the earlier attempts at bringing Fintech to the general public. I'd suggest we don't throw the baby with the bath water. My final word on this:- 1. One government gateway is not a phenomenon that is unique to Kenya. Singapore, the UK, and India are some of the examples that this has been implemented. Let me reiterate - We DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR PAYMENTS. Fees for Payments are a race to zero. This will happen even in the private sector. Consolidation into a Unified Govt Payment Gateway is efficient. In fact, far from what my brother, Victor Kapiyo, may think...😅 a payment gateway is not equivalent to a bank account so let's not compare apples to oranges. 2. Execution, Execution, Execution. That is the problem. So guys, let's not see goblins around the corner every time the government wants to do something! Let's rather view this issue without jaundiced eyes and let's help the government in this endeavour. I'm sure the Mandarins at MOICT are reading these conversations with the interest they deserve. Regards *Ali Hussein* Fintech | Digital Transformation Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 2:47 PM Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

@ Ali, imho the myriad of payment solutions were a response to challenges citizens face when making the payments. I see the presidents point in minimizing leakage of funds. I think this act returns us to the days of Kenswitch.

Best Regards

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:40, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

Curious. How would this government decision stifle innovation? On the contrary, this creates a great opportunity for the Fintech Ecosystem to innovate on top of the Gateway.

Here's my concern (and I suppose that's the reason some people are going to court! 😅) :-

For how long are we going to pay for payments? Why would someone charge you for making a payment? This is not something we have asked as Kenyans...time we do!

Ali Hussein

Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm Barrack Otieno via KICTANet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

@mwendwaKivuva asks. What level of autonomy do State Corporations have? I guess that’s the prerogative of the government to decide. I see the point in JBs comments and @ Ali Hussein’s comments as well. Just wondering for debates sake again whether such a move would stifle innovation in the fintech sector since government is a major spender.

Best Regards

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:25, Ohaga JB via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Listers, > > Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President > Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a > single Paybill number. > > The petitioners want it quashed for want of > kegality/Constitutionality because: > > - That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other > Statutory Act. > - That there was no public participation regarding the same > - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and > National government services. > > We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system > resolved by the way? > > Regards, > > JG > > _______________________________________________ > KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at: > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ > YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ > > KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and > institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. > KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and > Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars > of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder > Engagement. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's > times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or > personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your > wares or qualifications. > > KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy > engagement platform. > -- Best Regards, ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwendwa-kivuva _______________________________________________ KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at: https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/

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Barrack I think you have the history of Fintech in this country all mixed up! 😅 We can't take away the role that Kenswitch played in this history. It wasn't part of the problem. It was part of the solution. Regards *Ali Hussein* Fintech | Digital Transformation Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 8:49 AM Barrack Otieno <barrack@kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

@Ali Hussein <ahussein@kictanet.or.ke> Fintech evolved in part because of the deficiencies of Ken Switch. I think for us to create a culture of innovation we need openness and all manner of solutions. I think his excellency the president is trying to address the issue of revenue leakage and wastage. Corruption has mutated into malware. It is perpetrated through Social Engineering. Dealing with it requires approaches similar to those deployed in mitigating Cyber Security.

Best Regards

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023, 1:07 pm Ali Hussein via KICTANet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

I don't really understand what you mean by the 'the days of Kenswitch'. Kenswitch was great progress in its days and I'd say one of the earlier attempts at bringing Fintech to the general public.

I'd suggest we don't throw the baby with the bath water. My final word on this:-

1. One government gateway is not a phenomenon that is unique to Kenya. Singapore, the UK, and India are some of the examples that this has been implemented. Let me reiterate - We DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR PAYMENTS. Fees for Payments are a race to zero. This will happen even in the private sector. Consolidation into a Unified Govt Payment Gateway is efficient. In fact, far from what my brother, Victor Kapiyo, may think...😅 a payment gateway is not equivalent to a bank account so let's not compare apples to oranges.

2. Execution, Execution, Execution. That is the problem. So guys, let's not see goblins around the corner every time the government wants to do something! Let's rather view this issue without jaundiced eyes and let's help the government in this endeavour.

I'm sure the Mandarins at MOICT are reading these conversations with the interest they deserve.

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 2:47 PM Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

@ Ali, imho the myriad of payment solutions were a response to challenges citizens face when making the payments. I see the presidents point in minimizing leakage of funds. I think this act returns us to the days of Kenswitch.

Best Regards

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:40, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

Curious. How would this government decision stifle innovation? On the contrary, this creates a great opportunity for the Fintech Ecosystem to innovate on top of the Gateway.

Here's my concern (and I suppose that's the reason some people are going to court! 😅) :-

For how long are we going to pay for payments? Why would someone charge you for making a payment? This is not something we have asked as Kenyans...time we do!

Ali Hussein

Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm Barrack Otieno via KICTANet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

@mwendwaKivuva asks. What level of autonomy do State Corporations have? I guess that’s the prerogative of the government to decide. I see the point in JBs comments and @ Ali Hussein’s comments as well. Just wondering for debates sake again whether such a move would stifle innovation in the fintech sector since government is a major spender.

Best Regards

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:25, Ohaga JB via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Thanks Ali.

I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner that the President's directive will.

One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the air.

The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep paying it.

Regards, JB.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. > I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having > said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment > Gateway:- > > 1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. > 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work > out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the > very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for > 'alternative' payment models. > 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court > case issue! > > Regards > > *Ali Hussein* > > Fintech | Digital Transformation > > > Tel: +254 713 601113 > > Twitter: @AliHKassim > > LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> > <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> > > > > > > > > > > > Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are > purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the > organizations that I work with. > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > >> For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public >> entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do >> state agencies have in running their operations? >> >> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> Listers, >>> >>> Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President >>> Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a >>> single Paybill number. >>> >>> The petitioners want it quashed for want of >>> kegality/Constitutionality because: >>> >>> - That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other >>> Statutory Act. >>> - That there was no public participation regarding the same >>> - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and >>> National government services. >>> >>> We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system >>> resolved by the way? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> JG >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>> kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >>> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >>> >>> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >>> >>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >>> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >>> YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >>> >>> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >>> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >>> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >>> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >>> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >>> Engagement. >>> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >>> wares or qualifications. >>> >>> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy >>> engagement platform. >>> >> -- >> Best Regards, >> ______________________ >> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwendwa-kivuva >> _______________________________________________ >> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >> >> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >> >> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >> YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >> >> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >> Engagement. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >> wares or qualifications. >> >> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy >> engagement platform. >> > _______________________________________________ > KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at: > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ > YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ > > KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and > institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. > KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and > Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars > of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder > Engagement. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's > times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or > personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your > wares or qualifications. > > KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy > engagement platform. > _______________________________________________ KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at: https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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_______________________________________________ KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at: https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

That said, there seems to be hue and cry over implementation of the Presidents order. Brings to the fore your sentiments on project management. There is lack of communication on how the directive should be implemented leading to frustrations to those seeking government services. Best Regards On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 7:41 AM Barrack Otieno via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Goodmorning @Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> I think the history of Fintech in Kenya would make an interesting read, i would love to see a debate around some of the deficiencies in the pioneering solutions that catapulted mobile money. I have seen studies on why for example mpesa has not picked up very well in Jurisdictions with well oiled card based systems. (I believe this is the approach from a laymans term that was largely fronted by the likes of Kenswitch) but we still had many unbanked who we managed to bring to the fore through mobile banking solutions build around the infrastructure established by the mobile network operators. Anyway, since i am not an expert in the space, i would like to get more insights on the history to debunk any misinformation i may have.

Best Regards

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 6:05 AM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

I think you have the history of Fintech in this country all mixed up! 😅

We can't take away the role that Kenswitch played in this history. It wasn't part of the problem. It was part of the solution.

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 8:49 AM Barrack Otieno <barrack@kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

@Ali Hussein <ahussein@kictanet.or.ke> Fintech evolved in part because of the deficiencies of Ken Switch. I think for us to create a culture of innovation we need openness and all manner of solutions. I think his excellency the president is trying to address the issue of revenue leakage and wastage. Corruption has mutated into malware. It is perpetrated through Social Engineering. Dealing with it requires approaches similar to those deployed in mitigating Cyber Security.

Best Regards

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023, 1:07 pm Ali Hussein via KICTANet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

I don't really understand what you mean by the 'the days of Kenswitch'. Kenswitch was great progress in its days and I'd say one of the earlier attempts at bringing Fintech to the general public.

I'd suggest we don't throw the baby with the bath water. My final word on this:-

1. One government gateway is not a phenomenon that is unique to Kenya. Singapore, the UK, and India are some of the examples that this has been implemented. Let me reiterate - We DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR PAYMENTS. Fees for Payments are a race to zero. This will happen even in the private sector. Consolidation into a Unified Govt Payment Gateway is efficient. In fact, far from what my brother, Victor Kapiyo, may think...😅 a payment gateway is not equivalent to a bank account so let's not compare apples to oranges.

2. Execution, Execution, Execution. That is the problem. So guys, let's not see goblins around the corner every time the government wants to do something! Let's rather view this issue without jaundiced eyes and let's help the government in this endeavour.

I'm sure the Mandarins at MOICT are reading these conversations with the interest they deserve.

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 2:47 PM Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

@ Ali, imho the myriad of payment solutions were a response to challenges citizens face when making the payments. I see the presidents point in minimizing leakage of funds. I think this act returns us to the days of Kenswitch.

Best Regards

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:40, Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> wrote:

...

Barrack

Curious. How would this government decision stifle innovation? On the contrary, this creates a great opportunity for the Fintech Ecosystem to innovate on top of the Gateway.

Here's my concern (and I suppose that's the reason some people are going to court! 😅) :-

For how long are we going to pay for payments? Why would someone charge you for making a payment? This is not something we have asked as Kenyans...time we do!

Ali Hussein

Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm Barrack Otieno via KICTANet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> @mwendwaKivuva asks. What level of autonomy do State Corporations > have? I guess that’s the prerogative of the government to decide. I see the > point in JBs comments and @ Ali Hussein’s comments as well. Just wondering > for debates sake again whether such a move would stifle innovation in the > fintech sector since government is a major spender. > > Best Regards > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 13:25, Ohaga JB via KICTANet < > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > >> Thanks Ali. >> >> I, however, beg to differ that this should be designated as a >> nuisance case. Public participation ought to have been conducted for such a >> far reaching decision to be undertaken. Senior Mwenda has asked whether >> public participation is sought when public entities open/close accounts, >> the answer here is an emphatic no, because those decisions are often >> limited to the administrative elements of those specific institutions, they >> do not affect the entire government revenue collection system in a manner >> that the President's directive will. >> >> One question that I've been thinking about that relates to this is, >> when counties collect their own revenue, they usually retain that for usage >> within the counties themselves. So what happens when the national govt >> decides that revenue will be collected in one pot? What happens to the >> county specific revenue? What will be the mechanism for accessing this >> money by the counties? Remember, county share of the revenue is often 3 to >> 4 months late, and what helps counties run in the interim is the own >> revenue that they collect. But if this is not the position in the >> President's directive, then this needs to be clarified, which is why that >> court case is timely. There are way too many unanswered questions up in the >> air. >> >> The directive might be well intentioned and might actually be good, >> per Ali's point, but it needs to be backed by law and citizens need to have >> a say on how their revenue is collected and managed. As Thatcher loved to >> remind us, t*here is no such thing as public money, there is only >> taxpayers' money* and tax payers should have a say on mechanisms >> for collection and management of their money if they're expected to keep >> paying it. >> >> Regards, >> JB. >> >> On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:50 PM Ali Hussein via KICTANet < >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva >>> <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance >>> case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this >>> issue of the Government Payment Gateway:- >>> >>> 1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. >>> 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy >>> work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or >>> at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for >>> 'alternative' payment models. >>> 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court >>> case issue! >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> *Ali Hussein* >>> >>> Fintech | Digital Transformation >>> >>> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113 >>> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim >>> >>> LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> >>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are >>> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the >>> organizations that I work with. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a >>>> public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy >>>> do state agencies have in running their operations? >>>> >>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President >>>>> Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a >>>>> single Paybill number. >>>>> >>>>> The petitioners want it quashed for want of >>>>> kegality/Constitutionality because: >>>>> >>>>> - That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other >>>>> Statutory Act. >>>>> - That there was no public participation regarding the same >>>>> - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and >>>>> National government services. >>>>> >>>>> We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system >>>>> resolved by the way? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> JG >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>> kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >>>>> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >>>>> >>>>> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >>>>> >>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >>>>> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >>>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >>>>> YouTube: >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >>>>> >>>>> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >>>>> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >>>>> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >>>>> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >>>>> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >>>>> Engagement. >>>>> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >>>>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >>>>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >>>>> wares or qualifications. >>>>> >>>>> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT >>>>> policy engagement platform. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best Regards, >>>> ______________________ >>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwendwa-kivuva >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>> kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >>>> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >>>> >>>> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >>>> >>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >>>> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >>>> YouTube: >>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >>>> >>>> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >>>> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >>>> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >>>> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >>>> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >>>> Engagement. >>>> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >>>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >>>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >>>> wares or qualifications. >>>> >>>> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT >>>> policy engagement platform. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>> kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >>> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >>> >>> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >>> >>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >>> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >>> YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >>> >>> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >>> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >>> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >>> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >>> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >>> Engagement. >>> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >>> wares or qualifications. >>> >>> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy >>> engagement platform. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> Unsubscribe or change your options at: >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ >> >> Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ >> >> Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ >> Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ >> YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ >> >> KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and >> institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. >> KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and >> Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars >> of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder >> Engagement. >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's >> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or >> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your >> wares or qualifications. >> >> KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy >> engagement platform. >> > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > +254721325277 > +254733206359 > Skype: barrack.otieno > PGP ID: 0x2611D86A > > > > > _______________________________________________ > KICTANet mailing list -- kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > To unsubscribe send an email to kictanet-leave@lists.kictanet.or.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at: > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Mailing List Posts Online: https://posts.kictanet.or.ke/ > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/KICTANet/ > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ > Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KICTANet/ > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kictanet/ > YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbcLVjnPtTGBEeYLGUb2Yow/ > > KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and > institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. > KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and > Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars > of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder > Engagement. > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's > times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or > personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your > wares or qualifications. > > KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy > engagement platform. > -- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

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Ososti Hence the reason why this initiative is a good one, nah? 😅 Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 1:45 pm Peter Osotsi, <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Ali;

Did you know now you can't pay for NHIF via the phone? A company has to pay to the NHIF branch or go to the bank. So thats a million steps behind. So many other government agencies will prefer a bank wire or transfer or some sort of going to the bank to have statutory forms stamped. Again, thats a huge step backwards.

So why are state agencies opting for this route? Nobody knows where the money for their statutory contributions are going. How will the money be distinguished and if a state agency is paralysed financially how long will the collecting agency disburse the funds to the distressed state agency? In the case of NHIF and NSSF those are not income to the state but employee contributions. So why would they end up in the same pot as parking fees?

Lastly, why would the government want to use only one digital wallet for their funds considering the government has been running in a serious budget deficit, which is widening? Why should, say, city hall beg a cash strapped central government for money accrued for parking in Nairobi?

It doesn'tmake sense.

Peter

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 12:56, Ali Hussein via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

That is a great point, @Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>. I actually think that this is a *nuisance case*. However, having said that here are my thoughts about this issue of the Government Payment Gateway:-

1. It's a great initiative and one we should support. 2. Unfortunately, whoever is implementing this is making shoddy work out of it! This will eventually deprive the government of revenue or at the very least delay revenue and create unnecessary opportunities for 'alternative' payment models. 3. This is a Project Management and execution issue, not a court case issue!

Regards

*Ali Hussein*

Fintech | Digital Transformation

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

LinkedIn: Ali's Profile <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:21 PM Mwendwa Kivuva via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

For the sake of debate, is there public participation when a public entity is opening or closing a bank account? What level of autonomy do state agencies have in running their operations?

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 at 16:30, James Mbugua via KICTANet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

...

Listers,

Two petitioners have gone to Court seeking to reverse President Ruto's directive for all government services to be paid for through a single Paybill number.

The petitioners want it quashed for want of kegality/Constitutionality because:

- That the directive is not grounded in the PFM or any other Statutory Act. - That there was no public participation regarding the same - That it does not distinguish, as it should between County and National government services.

We're the Court cases regarding the eCitizen payments system resolved by the way?

Regards,

JG

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

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KICTANet is a multi-stakeholder Think Tank for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. KICTANet is a catalyst for reform in the Information and Communication Technology sector. Its work is guided by four pillars of Policy Advocacy, Capacity Building, Research, and Stakeholder Engagement.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

KICTANet - The Power of Communities, is Kenya's premier ICT policy engagement platform.

--

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