Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data Protection Bill?
As per the foregoing, it seems the law (though unsure which one) in Kenya, is developed on top-bottom approach, that the Draft Bill in discussion here, was not shared with stakeholders. Once it gets at the Cabinet, it's practically impossible to discuss it with the concerned. Maybe the new constitutional dispensation, if it sees light from on Wednesday next week, will change the whole process. There are two people onlist who I firmly believe can be of much help here: Dr. Ndemo and Eng. Rege. Both have access to any policy documents easily. As Mwololo has pointed out, it would be prudent to share the bill out so that we read from the same script. On 28/07/2010, Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo, The re-developed policy was never shared with stakeholders, at least as far as I can remember. Could you kindly share it. tm
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:23 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Hon. Rege, Indeed the AG cleared the Bill only to find out that the policy that developed it was not sufficient. We quickly developed the policy and sent it to Cabinet. It is waiting to go through the Cabinet Sub Committee Chaired by the PM before getting to Full Cabinet.
I know you can push it through from where it is at the moment.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dear Colleagues, I have been a way from civilization, campaigning for the "Yes" katiba for sometime now. In fact I am not supposed to be in Nairobi City today but came back for the IGF. Engineer John Kariuki, please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding that it would be prudent to have FOI Act before the Data Protection one? Two weeks ago I ran into the AG in Parliament. I asked him if the FOI has been cleared and ready for presentation on the floor of the House. His answer was that the document is with the Ministry. Dr Ndemo, please advise.
Kind regards Hon. James Rege, MP, Karachuonyo
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 26, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@ Ndemo,
I hear you. We must also find a way to educate our Cabinet that the phrase "1 day in Politics is a long time" does apply more in ICTs than in politics...If they endorse an ICT bill discussed four years ago, the ICT terrain would have changed significantly to warrant a review of the earlier discussions...
walu.
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft DataProtectionBill? To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: bitange@jambo.co.ke, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 4:03 PM
Walibengo, I am equallly frustrated because it takes at least four years to go through Cabinet, AG's office and Parliament. These are processes beyond my control.
Iy you recall, we merged the two FOIs, the Prof. Nyongo one and our own draft. We indeed agreed that I send to Cabinet. I have promised practically anyone I meet that the bill will soon be out of Cabinet soon. I am confident that it will happen one day since FOI for example is an agenda 4 item.
Regards
Ndemo.
Bwana PS,
true that these drafts were debated and i recall attending the forum at KSPS. Problem is this was a while back (2006-7) but the problem has always been that you never get to know what part of non-government stakeholders contributions were taken on board (went to the cabinet) and which parts were ignored.
Eventually ofcourse one will get to know the details when the Bill gets to the floor of Parliament. And then the real challenge starts in that if other stakeholders think that what is before parliament is not "inclusive" enough, they will try to influence MPs to change it accordingly. At that level ONLY the big "influential" stakeholders (read: donors/private sector) can get the attention of the MPs; let alone their "buy-in" to make changes (read: forget our famous wanjiku's input at this level)
Finally, even if the big stakeholders do get their changes in, if at all the Executive feels that those changes significantly alter their original policy objectives, they can always play the red card (veto) and take the whole process back to square1.
So in short, my submission is that it is always cheaper to build and probably more importantly confirm consensus at the beginning of the policy process rather than towards the end.
walu.
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft DataProtectionBill? To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 9:17 AM
We debated the FOI and Data Protection at School of Monetary studies. We shall as public have another go at it when it is published and gone through the first reading in Parliament.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: David Otwoma <otwomad@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:52:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data ProtectionBill?
Dear Edith,
Cabinet Memoranda are classified documents intended for tabling in Cabinet Meetings. These documents are regulated by strict rules issued by the Presidency ...when they are approved then the Bill goes to Parliament and is again in the public domain for your input as per Parliamentary procedures.
Enjoy your Furahi day all.
Kind regards
David
On 7/22/10, Edith Adera <eadera@idrc.or.ke> wrote:
Dr Ndemo,
Can it not be circulated to stakeholders for review? Wasn't a participatory process followed to draft it?
Edith
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+eadera=idrc.or.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eadera <kictanet-bounces%2Beadera>=idrc.or.ke @lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of bitange@jambo.co.ke Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:03 AM To: Edith Adera Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data ProtectionBill?
The draft bill is in Cabinet.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry(r)
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:57:59 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data Protection Bill?
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: eadera@idrc.or.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eadera%40idrc.or.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: otwomad@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otwomad%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jamesrege@rocketmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jamesrege%40rocketmail....
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: timwololo@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timwololo%40gmail.com
-- Sent from my mobile device Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau ***************************************************** Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
There was an ICT board initiative some months ago revolving around connected Government and e-government - delivery of service to the citizens. I like to think that it was not all talk. There is no reason for instance such drafts should not be online in a public wiki, broken down into sections so that people -- both the public and government can comment on the various sections and have those comment preserved there for posterity. A good example of how this would have helped if such an approach had been taken for the draft constitution. A passing alien would think this constitution only mentions abortion, homosexuality and land. I'm very sure that there are many good debates in other aspects but who has taken the trouble to capture and aggregate this feedback? There is nothing magical about the Cabinet. If anything I dare say the collective knowledge and experience in the industry trumps that of the Cabinet members so it is mystifying why more transparent engagement is not encouraged. On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
As per the foregoing, it seems the law (though unsure which one) in Kenya, is developed on top-bottom approach, that the Draft Bill in discussion here, was not shared with stakeholders.
Once it gets at the Cabinet, it's practically impossible to discuss it with the concerned. Maybe the new constitutional dispensation, if it sees light from on Wednesday next week, will change the whole process.
There are two people onlist who I firmly believe can be of much help here: Dr. Ndemo and Eng. Rege. Both have access to any policy documents easily. As Mwololo has pointed out, it would be prudent to share the bill out so that we read from the same script.
Those who were at Monetary studies can bear me witness that we indeed harmonized the FOI and its policy framework along with Data Protection and agreed to move them forward. The problem has been the delay. Further we always have time after the first reading to make some contributions. Regards Ndemo.
As per the foregoing, it seems the law (though unsure which one) in Kenya, is developed on top-bottom approach, that the Draft Bill in discussion here, was not shared with stakeholders.
Once it gets at the Cabinet, it's practically impossible to discuss it with the concerned. Maybe the new constitutional dispensation, if it sees light from on Wednesday next week, will change the whole process.
There are two people onlist who I firmly believe can be of much help here: Dr. Ndemo and Eng. Rege. Both have access to any policy documents easily. As Mwololo has pointed out, it would be prudent to share the bill out so that we read from the same script.
On 28/07/2010, Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo, The re-developed policy was never shared with stakeholders, at least as far as I can remember. Could you kindly share it. tm
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:23 AM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Hon. Rege, Indeed the AG cleared the Bill only to find out that the policy that developed it was not sufficient. We quickly developed the policy and sent it to Cabinet. It is waiting to go through the Cabinet Sub Committee Chaired by the PM before getting to Full Cabinet.
I know you can push it through from where it is at the moment.
Regards
Ndemo.
Dear Colleagues, I have been a way from civilization, campaigning for the "Yes" katiba for sometime now. In fact I am not supposed to be in Nairobi City today but came back for the IGF. Engineer John Kariuki, please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding that it would be prudent to have FOI Act before the Data Protection one? Two weeks ago I ran into the AG in Parliament. I asked him if the FOI has been cleared and ready for presentation on the floor of the House. His answer was that the document is with the Ministry. Dr Ndemo, please advise.
Kind regards Hon. James Rege, MP, Karachuonyo
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 26, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@ Ndemo,
I hear you. We must also find a way to educate our Cabinet that the phrase "1 day in Politics is a long time" does apply more in ICTs than in politics...If they endorse an ICT bill discussed four years ago, the ICT terrain would have changed significantly to warrant a review of the earlier discussions...
walu.
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft DataProtectionBill? To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: bitange@jambo.co.ke, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 4:03 PM
Walibengo, I am equallly frustrated because it takes at least four years to go through Cabinet, AG's office and Parliament. These are processes beyond my control.
Iy you recall, we merged the two FOIs, the Prof. Nyongo one and our own draft. We indeed agreed that I send to Cabinet. I have promised practically anyone I meet that the bill will soon be out of Cabinet soon. I am confident that it will happen one day since FOI for example is an agenda 4 item.
Regards
Ndemo.
Bwana PS,
true that these drafts were debated and i recall attending the forum at KSPS. Problem is this was a while back (2006-7) but the problem has always been that you never get to know what part of non-government stakeholders contributions were taken on board (went to the cabinet) and which parts were ignored.
Eventually ofcourse one will get to know the details when the Bill gets to the floor of Parliament. And then the real challenge starts in that if other stakeholders think that what is before parliament is not "inclusive" enough, they will try to influence MPs to change it accordingly. At that level ONLY the big "influential" stakeholders (read: donors/private sector) can get the attention of the MPs; let alone their "buy-in" to make changes (read: forget our famous wanjiku's input at this level)
Finally, even if the big stakeholders do get their changes in, if at all the Executive feels that those changes significantly alter their original policy objectives, they can always play the red card (veto) and take the whole process back to square1.
So in short, my submission is that it is always cheaper to build and probably more importantly confirm consensus at the beginning of the policy process rather than towards the end.
walu.
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft DataProtectionBill? To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 9:17 AM
We debated the FOI and Data Protection at School of Monetary studies. We shall as public have another go at it when it is published and gone through the first reading in Parliament.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: David Otwoma <otwomad@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:52:40 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data ProtectionBill?
Dear Edith,
Cabinet Memoranda are classified documents intended for tabling in Cabinet Meetings. These documents are regulated by strict rules issued by the Presidency ...when they are approved then the Bill goes to Parliament and is again in the public domain for your input as per Parliamentary procedures.
Enjoy your Furahi day all.
Kind regards
David
On 7/22/10, Edith Adera <eadera@idrc.or.ke> wrote:
Dr Ndemo,
Can it not be circulated to stakeholders for review? Wasn't a participatory process followed to draft it?
Edith
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+eadera=idrc.or.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eadera <kictanet-bounces%2Beadera>=idrc.or.ke @lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of bitange@jambo.co.ke Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:03 AM To: Edith Adera Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data ProtectionBill?
The draft bill is in Cabinet.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry(r)
-----Original Message----- From: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:57:59 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Privacy vs National Interest-Draft Data Protection Bill?
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: eadera@idrc.or.ke Unsubscribe or change
your
options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eadera%40idrc.or.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: otwomad@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otwomad%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jamesrege@rocketmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jamesrege%40rocketmail....
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: timwololo@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timwololo%40gmail.com
-- Sent from my mobile device
Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau
***************************************************** Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!
AND
It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"
participants (3)
-
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Rad! -
Solomon Mburu Kamau