Re: [kictanet] [PK] Kshs 8.5 billion on just CCTV cameras within Nairobi?
Listers sorry for cross posting: Dear Omtata, Ill begin with a statement I read somewhere: "An elephant is a rat built to government specifications". That Said & Done, the person answerable to us on this matter must, and has to be the PS , Daktari Ndemo. The assumption has to be that Due diligence was followed (or should have been followed) and procurement of these gadgets involved the necessary ministries for technology oversight. That said, I doubt that the procured equipment was of the order that you find on Kimathi street or other local suppliers. As interested parties in the security of the nation, I would assume that only military grade equipment would do, where various organs, NSIS, KDOD & other uniforms would put in requirements for this that would then be added up to determine the scope. Considering our military is a highly secretive one, and that procurements come to be heard of years later, and factoring in the fact that while latest trends show that our learnings have been to the east when procuring hardware, we still maintain a "joined in the hip" relationship with some western leaning nations such as Israel. It would therefore not be inimaginable that some obscure "additions" might have been added onto the mix to do more specific tasks than just "seeing". In which case then securing these 51 installations, getting the relevant persons trained to the right skill set and running interferance would easily hit that mark. but who knows, maybe we have an unmanned predator hovering over the city doing all this. On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com>wrote:
Is there anybody familiar with this issue of CCTV cameras within cities? It is reported the we will be spending Kshs 8.5 billion on CCTV cameras within Nairobi, in just 51 locations!?... One expert told me this: "One high tech camera costs about kshs. 60,000. If you multiply this with 51, you get kshs. 3.06m. Assuming each will be controlled by a Mac computer, kshs.250k by 51 you get kshs.12.7m. If you add even 100m for installation and other expenses. There is no way it could amount to kshs.8.5 billion!!!"
On the procurement of public goods and services, the Constitution declares in Article 227(1) that: "When a State organ or any other public entity contracts for goods or services, it shall do so in accordance with a system that is fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective."
Regards,
Omtatah
--
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While I am not an expert, and think that Ksh8.5 billion is too much, one location does not mean having only one camera per location. For example, if you take Kimathi Street as one location, we will need a number of cameras in/on numerous/different buildings, facilities etc. facing different directions. This may be one explanation. But again, I am no expert. Just a thought. George Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00 Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58 george@afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join us at AFRINIC-17 for our Public Policy Meeting in Khartoum, Sudan, on 24 – 29 November 2012 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Listers sorry for cross posting:
Dear Omtata, Ill begin with a statement I read somewhere: "An elephant is a rat built to government specifications".
That Said & Done, the person answerable to us on this matter must, and has to be the PS , Daktari Ndemo. The assumption has to be that Due diligence was followed (or should have been followed) and procurement of these gadgets involved the necessary ministries for technology oversight. That said, I doubt that the procured equipment was of the order that you find on Kimathi street or other local suppliers. As interested parties in the security of the nation, I would assume that only military grade equipment would do, where various organs, NSIS, KDOD & other uniforms would put in requirements for this that would then be added up to determine the scope.
Considering our military is a highly secretive one, and that procurements come to be heard of years later, and factoring in the fact that while latest trends show that our learnings have been to the east when procuring hardware, we still maintain a "joined in the hip" relationship with some western leaning nations such as Israel. It would therefore not be inimaginable that some obscure "additions" might have been added onto the mix to do more specific tasks than just "seeing". In which case then securing these 51 installations, getting the relevant persons trained to the right skill set and running interferance would easily hit that mark.
but who knows, maybe we have an unmanned predator hovering over the city doing all this.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com> wrote: Is there anybody familiar with this issue of CCTV cameras within cities? It is reported the we will be spending Kshs 8.5 billion on CCTV cameras within Nairobi, in just 51 locations!?... One expert told me this: "One high tech camera costs about kshs. 60,000. If you multiply this with 51, you get kshs. 3.06m. Assuming each will be controlled by a Mac computer, kshs.250k by 51 you get kshs.12.7m. If you add even 100m for installation and other expenses. There is no way it could amount to kshs.8.5 billion!!!"
On the procurement of public goods and services, the Constitution declares in Article 227(1) that: "When a State organ or any other public entity contracts for goods or services, it shall do so in accordance with a system that is fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective."
Regards,
Omtatah
-- ************************************************************************************************* Geniuses Training and Business Services Certificate and Diploma in Teaching, Training, Business Management & Entepreneurship, Legal Studies, Social Media & Marketing, Project Management, Multimedia Development, English and Literature Studies, Children Studies, Psychology, ICT Foundation Course Call 0705297307 or 0786695083 or Email to: info@geniusesltd.com
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Listers Of even more importance should be the concern with "securing the evidentiary value of the images". It will be critical to ensure that the chain of evidence is not tampered with, otherwise, the impact in securing convictions will be eroded. The management structure must be clear. Kind regards Eric Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+mealigula=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:28:25 To: <mealigula@gmail.com> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [PK] Kshs 8.5 billion on just CCTV cameras within Nairobi? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mealigula%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Omtatah, You do not have all the facts right. An Integrated Urban Surveillance System (IUSS) is not a simple cctv system that involves installation of cameras. It involves a state-of-the-art command/control center equipped with high end servers and other control equipment. The system includes a redundant command center having an exact setup as the main center. There is also a fiber network to be set up. The cameras are superior with in-built features like video analytics. There is storage. One year maintenance contract... The backbone of the system is an Intelligent Video Management System with attendant licences in-as-much-as it is based on open architecture. The budget is around KES 450 Million for all the above aspects including multiple cameras at the 51 locations. The KES 8 B is for future expansion to more locations within Nairobi and other cities. I am sure if you value the security of city residents and loss of billions annually due to poor traffic management you should be happy the government is doing something about it. This does not -- of course -- negate the need for accountability on the use of public funds. John On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] < arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Listers sorry for cross posting:
Dear Omtata, Ill begin with a statement I read somewhere: "An elephant is a rat built to government specifications".
That Said & Done, the person answerable to us on this matter must, and has to be the PS , Daktari Ndemo. The assumption has to be that Due diligence was followed (or should have been followed) and procurement of these gadgets involved the necessary ministries for technology oversight. That said, I doubt that the procured equipment was of the order that you find on Kimathi street or other local suppliers. As interested parties in the security of the nation, I would assume that only military grade equipment would do, where various organs, NSIS, KDOD & other uniforms would put in requirements for this that would then be added up to determine the scope.
Considering our military is a highly secretive one, and that procurements come to be heard of years later, and factoring in the fact that while latest trends show that our learnings have been to the east when procuring hardware, we still maintain a "joined in the hip" relationship with some western leaning nations such as Israel. It would therefore not be inimaginable that some obscure "additions" might have been added onto the mix to do more specific tasks than just "seeing". In which case then securing these 51 installations, getting the relevant persons trained to the right skill set and running interferance would easily hit that mark.
but who knows, maybe we have an unmanned predator hovering over the city doing all this.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com>wrote:
Is there anybody familiar with this issue of CCTV cameras within cities? It is reported the we will be spending Kshs 8.5 billion on CCTV cameras within Nairobi, in just 51 locations!?... One expert told me this: "One high tech camera costs about kshs. 60,000. If you multiply this with 51, you get kshs. 3.06m. Assuming each will be controlled by a Mac computer, kshs.250k by 51 you get kshs.12.7m. If you add even 100m for installation and other expenses. There is no way it could amount to kshs.8.5 billion!!!"
On the procurement of public goods and services, the Constitution declares in Article 227(1) that: "When a State organ or any other public entity contracts for goods or services, it shall do so in accordance with a system that is fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective."
Regards,
Omtatah
--
************************************************************************************************* Geniuses Training and Business Services Certificate and Diploma in Teaching, Training, Business Management & Entepreneurship, Legal Studies, Social Media & Marketing, Project Management, Multimedia Development, English and Literature Studies, Children Studies, Psychology, ICT Foundation Course Call 0705297307 or 0786695083 or Email to: info@geniusesltd.com
************************************************************************************************* TO ADVERTISE HERE: email: amosogal @ gmail.com
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Hey Listers, Simple Maths at Sh. 8.8m seems to be high per location considering most of the areas will have the infrastructure ie the fibre in place etc. I am sure they are not planning lay more fibre, the could piggy back on the existing infrastructure it seems to be very expensive for what it is, if anybody has some statistics from other cities where this has been deployed like Dubai or Singapore, this could shed some light. Best Regards, Baiju Shah Tele2media Ltd Telemedia Africa Ltd Tel. +254701691570 email: baiju@tele2media.com On 29 Nov 2012, at 11:27, John Ochoti <jonsom.o@gmail.com> wrote: @Omtatah, You do not have all the facts right. An Integrated Urban Surveillance System (IUSS) is not a simple cctv system that involves installation of cameras. It involves a state-of-the-art command/control center equipped with high end servers and other control equipment. The system includes a redundant command center having an exact setup as the main center. There is also a fiber network to be set up. The cameras are superior with in-built features like video analytics. There is storage. One year maintenance contract... The backbone of the system is an Intelligent Video Management System with attendant licences in-as-much-as it is based on open architecture. The budget is around KES 450 Million for all the above aspects including multiple cameras at the 51 locations. The KES 8 B is for future expansion to more locations within Nairobi and other cities. I am sure if you value the security of city residents and loss of billions annually due to poor traffic management you should be happy the government is doing something about it. This does not -- of course -- negate the need for accountability on the use of public funds. John On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote: Listers sorry for cross posting: Dear Omtata, Ill begin with a statement I read somewhere: "An elephant is a rat built to government specifications". That Said & Done, the person answerable to us on this matter must, and has to be the PS , Daktari Ndemo. The assumption has to be that Due diligence was followed (or should have been followed) and procurement of these gadgets involved the necessary ministries for technology oversight. That said, I doubt that the procured equipment was of the order that you find on Kimathi street or other local suppliers. As interested parties in the security of the nation, I would assume that only military grade equipment would do, where various organs, NSIS, KDOD & other uniforms would put in requirements for this that would then be added up to determine the scope. Considering our military is a highly secretive one, and that procurements come to be heard of years later, and factoring in the fact that while latest trends show that our learnings have been to the east when procuring hardware, we still maintain a "joined in the hip" relationship with some western leaning nations such as Israel. It would therefore not be inimaginable that some obscure "additions" might have been added onto the mix to do more specific tasks than just "seeing". In which case then securing these 51 installations, getting the relevant persons trained to the right skill set and running interferance would easily hit that mark. but who knows, maybe we have an unmanned predator hovering over the city doing all this. On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com> wrote: Is there anybody familiar with this issue of CCTV cameras within cities? It is reported the we will be spending Kshs 8.5 billion on CCTV cameras within Nairobi, in just 51 locations!?... One expert told me this: "One high tech camera costs about kshs. 60,000. If you multiply this with 51, you get kshs. 3.06m. Assuming each will be controlled by a Mac computer, kshs.250k by 51 you get kshs.12.7m. If you add even 100m for installation and other expenses. There is no way it could amount to kshs.8.5 billion!!!" On the procurement of public goods and services, the Constitution declares in Article 227(1) that: "When a State organ or any other public entity contracts for goods or services, it shall do so in accordance with a system that is fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective." Regards, Omtatah -- ************************************************************************************************* Geniuses Training and Business Services Certificate and Diploma in Teaching, Training, Business Management & Entepreneurship, Legal Studies, Social Media & Marketing, Project Management, Multimedia Development, English and Literature Studies, Children Studies, Psychology, ICT Foundation Course Call 0705297307 or 0786695083 or Email to: info@geniusesltd.com ************************************************************************************************* TO ADVERTISE HERE: email: amosogal @ gmail.com ************************************************************************************************* To subscribe:progressive-kenyans+subscribe@googlegroups.com: Unsubscribe:progressive-kenyans+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com -- “The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy” _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jonsom.o%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Best, ~ John Ochoti _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/baiju%40tele2media.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
It is better to seek clarification than to draw conclusions without full information.Today even a semi-professional camera costs much much more than ksh.60,000.00m. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:28:25 To: <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [PK] Kshs 8.5 billion on just CCTV cameras within Nairobi? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40y... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I wonder how much the underlying realtime facial recognition infrastructure costs and the interface to the various systems such as registrar of persons and registrar of motor vehicles. Considering this is probably running on proprietary platforms designed to withstand sophisticated attacks, I'm not entirely surprised by that high cost. Muchiri ************************* sent from my mobile device. Semacraft Consulting Partners Nairobi, Kenya. On Nov 29, 2012 11:52 AM, <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It is better to seek clarification than to draw conclusions without full information.Today even a semi-professional camera costs much much more than ksh.60,000.00m. Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:28:25 To: <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [PK] Kshs 8.5 billion on just CCTV cameras within Nairobi?
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Muchiri, You now want tell us that proprietary systems are better suited to withstand sophisticated attacks? I suggest you get your facts right on security vis a vis Windows and Linux. On Nov 29, 2012 1:05 PM, "Muchiri Nyaggah" <muchiri@semacraft.com> wrote:
I wonder how much the underlying realtime facial recognition infrastructure costs and the interface to the various systems such as registrar of persons and registrar of motor vehicles.
Considering this is probably running on proprietary platforms designed to withstand sophisticated attacks, I'm not entirely surprised by that high cost.
Muchiri
************************* sent from my mobile device.
Semacraft Consulting Partners Nairobi, Kenya. On Nov 29, 2012 11:52 AM, <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It is better to seek clarification than to draw conclusions without full information.Today even a semi-professional camera costs much much more than ksh.60,000.00m. Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Areba Collins [ @BrainiacKE ® ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:28:25 To: <ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [PK] Kshs 8.5 billion on just CCTV cameras within Nairobi?
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Collins, We do not know the scope of this project. Regards Ndemo.
Listers sorry for cross posting:
Dear Omtata, Ill begin with a statement I read somewhere: "An elephant is a rat built to government specifications".
That Said & Done, the person answerable to us on this matter must, and has to be the PS , Daktari Ndemo. The assumption has to be that Due diligence was followed (or should have been followed) and procurement of these gadgets involved the necessary ministries for technology oversight. That said, I doubt that the procured equipment was of the order that you find on Kimathi street or other local suppliers. As interested parties in the security of the nation, I would assume that only military grade equipment would do, where various organs, NSIS, KDOD & other uniforms would put in requirements for this that would then be added up to determine the scope.
Considering our military is a highly secretive one, and that procurements come to be heard of years later, and factoring in the fact that while latest trends show that our learnings have been to the east when procuring hardware, we still maintain a "joined in the hip" relationship with some western leaning nations such as Israel. It would therefore not be inimaginable that some obscure "additions" might have been added onto the mix to do more specific tasks than just "seeing". In which case then securing these 51 installations, getting the relevant persons trained to the right skill set and running interferance would easily hit that mark.
but who knows, maybe we have an unmanned predator hovering over the city doing all this.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com>wrote:
Is there anybody familiar with this issue of CCTV cameras within cities? It is reported the we will be spending Kshs 8.5 billion on CCTV cameras within Nairobi, in just 51 locations!?... One expert told me this: "One high tech camera costs about kshs. 60,000. If you multiply this with 51, you get kshs. 3.06m. Assuming each will be controlled by a Mac computer, kshs.250k by 51 you get kshs.12.7m. If you add even 100m for installation and other expenses. There is no way it could amount to kshs.8.5 billion!!!"
On the procurement of public goods and services, the Constitution declares in Article 227(1) that: "When a State organ or any other public entity contracts for goods or services, it shall do so in accordance with a system that is fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective."
Regards,
Omtatah
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participants (9)
-
Areba Collins [ ＠BrainiacKE ® ] -
Baiju Shah -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Evans Ikua -
George Nyabuga -
John Ochoti -
mealigula＠gmail.com -
Muchiri Nyaggah -
ngethe.kariuki2007＠yahoo.co.uk