Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information, Communication and Technology leadership
@Kivuva, Am not advocating...am being realistic. I think every executive arm of government deserves to chose its "key" players -as long as they do so within acceptable standards and the sucessful candidate meets the minimum qualifications. The public advert will allow us to confirm the qualifications and provide assurance that the succesfull candidate at least went to school. Beyond that, the rest at this high level is really political and if you ask me it happens in all governments globally. That is why you and I are not CS and PS respectively - even though we both went to school. And its all fine because we were all invited to apply :-) walu. ------------------------------ On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:10 PM AST (Arabian) Kivuva wrote:
Mr. Walubengo, in broad daylight you are advocating we do a kangaroo shortlisting, interview, and appointment. :)
Why would anybody want to participate in the process with the end result already known?
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh
On 6 September 2013 09:12, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
------------------------------ **Ali Hussein <[email protected]> wrote,
@John, that's just it...it's not illegal..it may be challenged in court but it seems that the executive is acting within the confines of the law. ~~~~~~~ The unilateral appointment would indeed be "legal" as it is enshrined in the Legal notice. However, the clever lawyers would not be challenging the appointment (since it would be legal), but they would be challenging whether it is constitutional to "legalize" such an action of appointing without inviting other Kenyans to apply...(discrimination)
Remember that the constitution is the supreme law and any other law(Act, Legal Notice, Regulation, etc) that is contradictory to it is null and void. Am not a lawyer but I think that is where the court battle would be about. In the likely event that the courts find that the legal notice is in violation of the constitution, then by extension the appointment becomes null and void.
Problem is that this would take time and meanwhile whoever is appointed is likely to have his/her hands tied up and cannot transact ICT Authority business. Thats why I said, why bother with the risks? Just advertise the job, go through the motions and safely arrive at the same destination.
We did this successfully for our Cabinet Sec and PS, I still dont understand why it should become difficult for a CEO :-)
walu. ------------------------------ *From:* Ali Hussein <[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] *Cc:* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 AM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information, Communication and Technology leadership
@Kivuva
You are quite right.
@Walu, I believe the correct phrase is '*The end justifies the means'. :)*
@John, that's just it...it's not illegal..it may be challenged in court but it seems that the executive is acting within the confines of the law.
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kivuva <[email protected]> wrote:
Because we know who is being targeted for this position, and we know his attributes and leadership qualities, and we acknowledge this is just a onetime appointment, why don't we discuss the merits and de-merits of Dr. Victor Kyalo?
I feel there is something members want to say but are being held back by diplomacy.
Lets remember as it has been stated here previously, anybody holding this public office will still have to pass the test of LEADERSHIP and INTEGRITY as envisioned in the constitution
On 05/09/2013, Ali Hussein <[email protected]> wrote:
Listers
Sometimes expediency requires that there is continuity and institutional
memory carry over to allow for a smooth transition.
In this particular case the Ag.CEO provides an excellent reason for this. He
has the expertise, experience, qualifications and the political savvy ness
to navigate this new monster called the ICTA.
The CS may need to look at constituting a new board though.
I say let the new team move with expediency and judge it by the results.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 5, 2013, at 2:34 PM, "Judy M. Muli" <[email protected]> wrote:
Listers,
What happened to the hookup, to discuss some of these issues and forge a
united front.
Judy
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
wrote:
Thanks Walu.
Great analysis. You are right about the need to avoid unnecessary
litigation (read unnecessary negative publicity). Cofek already posted
the article on its site and you never know if it is considering following
up on the matter.
http://www.cofek.co.ke/index.php/14-news/253-tired-talk-of-presidential-exec...
.
I agree with you on the need to advertise this job and still get the
"right man/woman" for it. The CS should not allow the matter to be
determined by the courts.
May I suggest that you consider this topic for your Nation Blog next
week? This 2010 Constitution. Argh!
Rgds
GG
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 03:12:47 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
@GG
I see the comparison - and specifically the fact that the previous CEO of
the ICT Board was expected to be unilaterally selected by the Minister.
However, that was then(2006/7). Fast-forward to today (2013) - with the
notable development of the new constitution (2010).
This thing (Constitution 2010) changed so much - even the President today
cannot do stuff his predecessors used to do over a game of golf/beer/etc.
And so it would be the case for the Kenya ICT Authority - one cannot just
borrow a previous clause and paste it into a new, bigger and different
institution. ICT Authority (2013) is miles apart from ICT board (2007)
in form, nature, scope and mandate.
For example, ICT Board(2007) was an institution with an
"administratively" limited ministerial scope -that is why other
Ministries could afford to ignore them. Today the ICT Authority is an
animal with sweeping powers that cut across Ministries and govt agencies.
The CEO appointment therefore requires and is indeed given a more
rigorous approach in the legal notice.
What raised the storm is why the need to exempt the 1st CEO from this
rigorous approach? My unsolicited advise would be for the CS to ignore
the clause, advertise the job (open it up for everyone) - and still get
(his?) the right man/woman for the job. After all, he has or can create
the required "magnanimity" (opposite of Tyranny :-) of the numbers in
the Board.
The other route is vulnerable to too much and unnecessary litigation that
may cripple the ICT Authority for years before it gets started. E.g
Someone can file a suit to determine whether the contentious clause goes
against the constitutional provision for non-discrimination. While the
suit is being determined ICT Authority will remain crippled/handicapped
for years.
walu.
From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
@ Walu,
For comparison purposes, see legal notice legal Notice 26 of 2007
http://www.kenyalaw.org/klr/index.php?id=568 (STATE CORPORATION KENYA
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY BOARD 2007)
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:13:46 +0000
Thanks Loise for sharing the legal notice.
@ Yawe you are right. That is the nature of the notice. You do not need
to be subjected to public scrutiny:) (On a light note, it is a pity since
I would be interested to know your inside manenos).
@ Brian, Walu, and Alice
I have just skimmed through the notice and in matters of the ICT
Authority appointments (both board and first CEO) it actually gives the
CS carte blanche. There may not be a row after all! Maybe some mischief
at the drafting process of the notice which ensured that it ignored
article 10 of the constitution which lays emphasis on consulting in
policy making processes. @ Kapiyo, @ Grace Bomu, what are your comments?
Rgds
GG
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:58:31 +0100
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
Hi,
There goes my opportunity to be appointed without having to jump through
hoops that require me to answer questions from my questionable past.
Regards
Robert Yawe
KAY System Technologies Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor
P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 15:02
Subject: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
A row is simmering in the Ministry of Information, Communication and
Technology over a law that gives the Cabinet secretary power to make
unilateral appointment.
Executive Order No. 2 of 2013 by President Uhuru Kenyatta on the
reorganisation of government that establishes the Information and
Communications Technology Authority ( ICTA) gives the ICT Cabinet
Secretary power to appoint the CEO of the authority without involving the
board.
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu, Your points are valid/constitutional. Our constitution was not written by business or program executives - who understand the concepts or effectiveness and efficiency very well. It was primarily written by "experts" in protests/arguments, who may not be experienced in building an organization. We need someone who can work with the relevant authorities without breaking the Law. If he/she messes up, then the KICTA Board, Parliament and Judiciary can deal with them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Chief_Information_Officer_of_the_United... Blessings Murigi / Stanley Muraya *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city." Prov 16:32* On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
@Kivuva,
Am not advocating...am being realistic. I think every executive arm of government deserves to chose its "key" players -as long as they do so within acceptable standards and the sucessful candidate meets the minimum qualifications.
The public advert will allow us to confirm the qualifications and provide assurance that the succesfull candidate at least went to school. Beyond that, the rest at this high level is really political and if you ask me it happens in all governments globally.
That is why you and I are not CS and PS respectively - even though we both went to school. And its all fine because we were all invited to apply :-)
walu.
------------------------------ On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:10 PM AST (Arabian) Kivuva wrote:
Mr. Walubengo, in broad daylight you are advocating we do a kangaroo shortlisting, interview, and appointment. :)
Why would anybody want to participate in the process with the end result already known?
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh google ID | Skype ID: lordmwesh
On 6 September 2013 09:12, Walubengo J <[email protected]> wrote:
------------------------------ **Ali Hussein <[email protected]> wrote,
@John, that's just it...it's not illegal..it may be challenged in court but it seems that the executive is acting within the confines of the law. ~~~~~~~ The unilateral appointment would indeed be "legal" as it is enshrined in the Legal notice. However, the clever lawyers would not be challenging the appointment (since it would be legal), but they would be challenging whether it is constitutional to "legalize" such an action of appointing without inviting other Kenyans to apply...(discrimination)
Remember that the constitution is the supreme law and any other law(Act, Legal Notice, Regulation, etc) that is contradictory to it is null and void. Am not a lawyer but I think that is where the court battle would be about. In the likely event that the courts find that the legal notice is in violation of the constitution, then by extension the appointment becomes null and void.
Problem is that this would take time and meanwhile whoever is appointed is likely to have his/her hands tied up and cannot transact ICT Authority business. Thats why I said, why bother with the risks? Just advertise the job, go through the motions and safely arrive at the same destination.
We did this successfully for our Cabinet Sec and PS, I still dont understand why it should become difficult for a CEO :-)
walu. ------------------------------ *From:* Ali Hussein <[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] *Cc:* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 AM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information, Communication and Technology leadership
@Kivuva
You are quite right.
@Walu, I believe the correct phrase is '*The end justifies the means'. :)*
@John, that's just it...it's not illegal..it may be challenged in court but it seems that the executive is acting within the confines of the law.
Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Kivuva <[email protected]> wrote:
Because we know who is being targeted for this position, and we know his attributes and leadership qualities, and we acknowledge this is just a onetime appointment, why don't we discuss the merits and de-merits of Dr. Victor Kyalo?
I feel there is something members want to say but are being held back by diplomacy.
Lets remember as it has been stated here previously, anybody holding this public office will still have to pass the test of LEADERSHIP and INTEGRITY as envisioned in the constitution
On 05/09/2013, Ali Hussein <[email protected]> wrote:
Listers
Sometimes expediency requires that there is continuity and institutional
memory carry over to allow for a smooth transition.
In this particular case the Ag.CEO provides an excellent reason for this. He
has the expertise, experience, qualifications and the political savvy ness
to navigate this new monster called the ICTA.
The CS may need to look at constituting a new board though.
I say let the new team move with expediency and judge it by the results.
Regards
Ali Hussein
CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd
Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd
+254 713 601113/ 0770 906375
"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 5, 2013, at 2:34 PM, "Judy M. Muli" <[email protected]> wrote:
Listers,
What happened to the hookup, to discuss some of these issues and forge a
united front.
Judy
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
wrote:
Thanks Walu.
Great analysis. You are right about the need to avoid unnecessary
litigation (read unnecessary negative publicity). Cofek already posted
the article on its site and you never know if it is considering following
up on the matter.
http://www.cofek.co.ke/index.php/14-news/253-tired-talk-of-presidential-exec...
.
I agree with you on the need to advertise this job and still get the
"right man/woman" for it. The CS should not allow the matter to be
determined by the courts.
May I suggest that you consider this topic for your Nation Blog next
week? This 2010 Constitution. Argh!
Rgds
GG
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 03:12:47 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
@GG
I see the comparison - and specifically the fact that the previous CEO
of
the ICT Board was expected to be unilaterally selected by the Minister.
However, that was then(2006/7). Fast-forward to today (2013) - with the
notable development of the new constitution (2010).
This thing (Constitution 2010) changed so much - even the President
today
cannot do stuff his predecessors used to do over a game of
golf/beer/etc.
And so it would be the case for the Kenya ICT Authority - one cannot
just
borrow a previous clause and paste it into a new, bigger and different
institution. ICT Authority (2013) is miles apart from ICT board (2007)
in form, nature, scope and mandate.
For example, ICT Board(2007) was an institution with an
"administratively" limited ministerial scope -that is why other
Ministries could afford to ignore them. Today the ICT Authority is an
animal with sweeping powers that cut across Ministries and govt
agencies.
The CEO appointment therefore requires and is indeed given a more
rigorous approach in the legal notice.
What raised the storm is why the need to exempt the 1st CEO from this
rigorous approach? My unsolicited advise would be for the CS to ignore
the clause, advertise the job (open it up for everyone) - and still get
(his?) the right man/woman for the job. After all, he has or can create
the required "magnanimity" (opposite of Tyranny :-) of the numbers in
the Board.
The other route is vulnerable to too much and unnecessary litigation
that
may cripple the ICT Authority for years before it gets started. E.g
Someone can file a suit to determine whether the contentious clause goes
against the constitutional provision for non-discrimination. While the
suit is being determined ICT Authority will remain crippled/handicapped
for years.
walu.
From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
@ Walu,
For comparison purposes, see legal notice legal Notice 26 of 2007
http://www.kenyalaw.org/klr/index.php?id=568 (STATE CORPORATION KENYA
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY BOARD 2007)
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:13:46 +0000
Thanks Loise for sharing the legal notice.
@ Yawe you are right. That is the nature of the notice. You do not need
to be subjected to public scrutiny:) (On a light note, it is a pity
since
I would be interested to know your inside manenos).
@ Brian, Walu, and Alice
I have just skimmed through the notice and in matters of the ICT
Authority appointments (both board and first CEO) it actually gives the
CS carte blanche. There may not be a row after all! Maybe some mischief
at the drafting process of the notice which ensured that it ignored
article 10 of the constitution which lays emphasis on consulting in
policy making processes. @ Kapiyo, @ Grace Bomu, what are your comments?
Rgds
GG
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:58:31 +0100
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
Hi,
There goes my opportunity to be appointed without having to jump through
hoops that require me to answer questions from my questionable past.
Regards
Robert Yawe
KAY System Technologies Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor
P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
From: Grace Githaiga <[email protected]>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 15:02
Subject: [kictanet] Row simmers over order on new Information,
Communication and Technology leadership
A row is simmering in the Ministry of Information, Communication and
Technology over a law that gives the Cabinet secretary power to make
unilateral appointment.
Executive Order No. 2 of 2013 by President Uhuru Kenyatta on the
reorganisation of government that establishes the Information and
Communications Technology Authority ( ICTA) gives the ICT Cabinet
Secretary power to appoint the CEO of the authority without involving
the
board.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva twitter.com/lordmwesh kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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participants (2)
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S.M. Muraya -
Walubengo J