Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing.. This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable? that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering. True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community. that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models? Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the
Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free. And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of
long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones? those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of
a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones? those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero- rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/,
On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero- rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text- messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards,
Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London<x-apple-data-detectors://0/1> | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=>, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=ejTJSA1Ii_nH1yv4L-4D-9LsRNeZgcGaew0ikL4BIT8&e= Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=MIDOW1aUaio5OVMgPpueIyPPWgYumAkLegk3fK70_Qk&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? 2. What led to the creation of the team? 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive.
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo
On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=> , On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of
a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones? those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
From your participation guidelines:
- In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load. - Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any advertising purposes or shared with third parties. *Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?* *What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition?* Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition:
Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook.
Those legal terms contain this:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
*So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right??* Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here( http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. *Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?* Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hi Ebele,
Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed.
1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa?
2. What led to the creation of the team?
3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas?
4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same?
Please educate me
Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive.
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo
On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=> , On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion
of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Sidney Ochieng *Skype:* sidney.ochieng | *Twitter:* @princelySid | *Website: * http://sidneyochieng.co.ke
Thanks so much for these questions! Please see below, in line. [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <sidney.ochieng@gmail.com<mailto:sidney.ochieng@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
From your participation guidelines:
* In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load. * Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any advertising purposes or shared with third parties. Why isn't secure content explicitly supported? I am checking with our EMEA content partnerships team; will get back soonest. What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition? Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers creating sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data to advertise, or that share their data with third parties. Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest. Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook. Those legal terms contain this: For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it. So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right?? Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nanjira.com_2015_11_taking-2Dfree-2Dbasics-2Din-2Dkenya-2Don-2Da-2Dspin_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=tamyx3t5M9AFkipSkz16d77shVWhSd5eWqL4cGdnWkc&e=>) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites? Platform is actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant to be a light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for free, for people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world. It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all, meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to access-awareness and cost. Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? 2. What led to the creation of the team? 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=>, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=ejTJSA1Ii_nH1yv4L-4D-9LsRNeZgcGaew0ikL4BIT8&e= Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=MIDOW1aUaio5OVMgPpueIyPPWgYumAkLegk3fK70_Qk&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=N_5kdfZuq4MRPEdhwD8JKM-LMEjlMsYPpRyG6HBiJvM&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_otieno.barrack-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=ZVg9HTBqe3D2UV0LaFUV0VZLtJGxWPwBChg1Xy51VrU&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=N_5kdfZuq4MRPEdhwD8JKM-LMEjlMsYPpRyG6HBiJvM&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sidney.ochieng%40gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_sidney.ochieng-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=CKEellyjRFydleNtPGvQEXxrK2wFudEHAn4qSbSbM9k&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Sidney Ochieng Skype: sidney.ochieng | Twitter: @princelySid | Website: http://sidneyochieng.co.ke<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sidneyochieng.co.ke&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=0LuLKMt4VsHRi4QCra6YjT_42Ql84Ee7RpwHWz1qu4E&e=>
Good morning to allFacebook has made a positive move towards helping the poor communitiesWe offer secondary education on TV and use Facebook to push some videos and interaction. However a good number of our student have said they are not on Facebook because they can not afford internetWe would wish to be included in the program. How do we go about it Jane MuthigaDirector Elimu TV07231444259 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Thanks so much for these questions! Please see below, in line. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <sidney.ochieng@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Ebele,I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
From your participation guidelines:
- In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load. - Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by youfor any advertising purposes or shared with third parties. Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?I am checking with our EMEA content partnerships team; will get back soonest.What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition?Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers creating sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data to advertise, or that share their data with third parties. Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest. Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook. Those legal terms contain this: For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it. So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right?? Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?Platform is actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant to be a light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for free, for people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world. It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all, meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to access-awareness and cost. Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? 2. What led to the creation of the team? 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment: 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated. Kind Regards, Waudo On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=ejTJSA1Ii_nH1yv4L-4D-9LsRNeZgcGaew0ikL4BIT8&e= Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=MIDOW1aUaio5OVMgPpueIyPPWgYumAkLegk3fK70_Qk&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sidney.ochieng%40gmail... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, | Sidney Ochieng | | | | | | | | Skype: sidney.ochieng | Twitter: @princelySid |Website: http://sidneyochieng.co.ke | | | _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nnfeischools%40yahoo.c... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
That’s fantastic-education content is some of the most sought after for Free Basics. A couple of things- Can you please have your team take a look at Platform, and the technical specifications, here? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guideli... Then they can submit, here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org I will also connect you directly with our EMEA content lead! Thanks so much for writing, and for the work that you do. Best, Ebele [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: Network of non- formal Educational institutions <nnfeischools@yahoo.com<mailto:nnfeischools@yahoo.com>> Date: Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:17 AM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Good morning to all Facebook has made a positive move towards helping the poor communities We offer secondary education on TV and use Facebook to push some videos and interaction. However a good number of our student have said they are not on Facebook because they can not afford internet We would wish to be included in the program. How do we go about it Jane Muthiga Director Elimu TV 07231444259 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.yahoo.com_mobile_-3F.src-3DAndroid&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=zZ6qbsDNBO7gagtgwHhrMWvNzgNU5DpzRC0eOZG-nDw&s=BpGZdKAeTPcYw9quQkgR6rZRcrqxEAqe1W2k48Ir4a4&e=> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Thanks so much for these questions! Please see below, in line. [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<javascript:return>> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <sidney.ochieng@gmail.com<javascript:return>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
From your participation guidelines:
* In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load. * Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any advertising purposes or shared with third parties. Why isn't secure content explicitly supported? I am checking with our EMEA content partnerships team; will get back soonest. What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition? Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers creating sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data to advertise, or that share their data with third parties. Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest. Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook. Those legal terms contain this: For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it. So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right?? Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nanjira.com_2015_11_taking-2Dfree-2Dbasics-2Din-2Dkenya-2Don-2Da-2Dspin_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=tamyx3t5M9AFkipSkz16d77shVWhSd5eWqL4cGdnWkc&e=>) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites? Platform is actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant to be a light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for free, for people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world. It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all, meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to access-awareness and cost. Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s). On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> wrote: Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? 2. What led to the creation of the team? 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> wrote: Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<javascript:return> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return>> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=>, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<javascript:return> wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com<javascript:return>> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. 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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Regards, Sidney Ochieng Skype: sidney.ochieng | Twitter: @princelySid | Website: http://sidneyochieng.co.ke<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sidneyochieng.co.ke&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=0LuLKMt4VsHRi4QCra6YjT_42Ql84Ee7RpwHWz1qu4E&e=> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<javascript:return> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=zZ6qbsDNBO7gagtgwHhrMWvNzgNU5DpzRC0eOZG-nDw&s=QHyizZSHupRadMt7kza76snwrkDkkPXfR_AWd5cuHOQ&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nnfeischools%40yahoo.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_nnfeischools-2540yahoo.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=zZ6qbsDNBO7gagtgwHhrMWvNzgNU5DpzRC0eOZG-nDw&s=9ACgtzebdhRGlZ-bGGRT_Xm1di8LMOCVHqu4IodxcEo&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can
be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call
"kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015, at 02:46 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet wrote:
> That’s fantastic-education content is some of the most sought after
> for Free Basics. A couple of things- Can you please have your team
> take a look at Platform, and the technical specifications, here?
> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guidelines
> Then they can submit, here:
> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org
>
> I will also connect you directly with our EMEA content lead! Thanks so
> much for writing, and for the work that you do. Best, Ebele
>
> Description: Description: Description:
> cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630
>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
>
> ebeleokobi@fb.com
>
>
>
> From: Network of non- formal Educational institutions
> <nnfeischools@yahoo.com> Date: Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:17 AM To:
> KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
>
> Good morning to all Facebook has made a positive move towards helping
> the poor communities We offer secondary education on TV and use
> Facebook to push some videos and interaction. However a good number of
> our student have said they are not on Facebook because they can not
> afford internet We would wish to be included in the program. How do
> we go about it
>
> Jane Muthiga Director Elimu TV 07231444259 Sent from Yahoo Mail on
> Android[1]
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet
>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Thanks so much for these
>> questions! Please see below, in line. Description: Description:
>> Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630
>>
>> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
>> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
>> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
>>
>> ebeleokobi@fb.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: kictanet <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
>> JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
>> URL='_javascript:return_'. For more information on phishing click
>> here.*> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <*FastMail WARNING:
>> URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL
>> disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more information on
>> phishing click here.*> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on
>> your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For
>> more information on phishing click here.*> Date: Thursday, December
>> 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM To: Ebele Okobi <*FastMail WARNING: URL text
>> contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
>> Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more information on phishing
>> click here.*>
>> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
>> JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
>> URL='_javascript:return_'. For more information on phishing click
>> here.*> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa
>> Public Policy Team to KICTANet
>>
>> Ebele, I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather
>> exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:
>>
>From your participation guidelines: * In addition, secure content is not
supported and may not load.
>> * Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed
>> Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for
>> any advertising purposes or shared with third parties.
>>
>>
>> Why isn't secure content explicitly supported? I am checking with our
>> EMEA content partnerships team; will get back soonest. What is the
>> rationale for the data and reporting condition? Per my exhaustive
>> reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free Basics, and we do
>> not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of users of Free
>> Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers creating
>> sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data to
>> advertise, or that share their data with third parties.
>>
>> Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this
>> condition: What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say
>> different”? Can you please specify what you mean when you say the
>> FAQs “say different”? Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest.
>>
>>> Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the
>>> information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed
>>> by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms
>>> and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you
>>> and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your
>>> service will not apply to Facebook.
>>
>> Those legal terms contain this:
>>> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like
>>> photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the
>>> following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication
>>> settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-
>>> licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content
>>> that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This
>>> IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account
>>> unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not
>>> deleted it.
>>
>> So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean
>> for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook
>> chooses to exercise this right??
>>
>> Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(*FastMail
>> WARNING: URL text and host don't match, possible phishing attempt.
>> URL disabled. Original URL='_
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nanjira.com_2015_11_taking-2Dfree-2Dbasics-2Din-2Dkenya-2Don-2Da-2Dspin_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Cp8Zhr_tnbaqOM4LZRPNAn7V_mxOKDAh96-gN1NaFa4&s=tamyx3t5M9AFkipSkz16d77shVWhSd5eWqL4cGdnWkc&e=_'.
>> Original text='_
>> http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/_'.
>> For more information on phishing click here.*) about how the
>> platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is
>> this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen
>> platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide
>> content to these sites? Platform is actually set up for people to
>> create, but Free Basics is meant to be a light-weight product that
>> operators are willing to provide for free, for people new to the
>> Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant to be an on-ramp to the
>> Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people stay. The kind of
>> Internet access that supports content creation requires all kinds of
>> inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook alone
>> is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world.
>> It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are
>> countries with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government
>> investment in infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that
>> charges for Internet access in developing countries-it’s operators.
>> Are operators willing to provide unlimited access, for free, to
>> people? Should they? I think the primary thing to remember, per my
>> email is that Free Basics is not, at all, meant to be a holistic
>> answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a short/medium-term
>> way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to access-
>> awareness and cost.
>>
>> Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other
>> questions as I go through your response(s).
>>
>> On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <*FastMail
>> WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your
>> machine. URL disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more
>> information on phishing click here.*> wrote:
>>> Hi Ebele,
>>> Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question,
>>> some might have been partly addressed.
>>> 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa?
>>> 2. What led to the creation of the team?
>>> 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content
>>> and extending connectivity to marginalized areas?
>>> 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its
>>> position on the same?
>>> Please educate me
>>> Thanks
>>> On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <*FastMail
>>> WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your
>>> machine. URL disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more
>>> information on phishing click here.*> wrote:
>>>> Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along
>>>> with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my
>>>> response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist
>>>> together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't
>>>> survive.
>>>>
>>>> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
>>>> m.+44 (0) 771 156 1315
>>>>
>>>> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
>>>> *FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack
>>>> on your machine. URL disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'.
>>>> For more information on phishing click here.*
>>>>
>>>> 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <*FastMail
>>>> WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your
>>>> machine. URL disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more
>>>> information on phishing click here.*> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this
>>>>> Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid
>>>>> services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>>>>>> There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter
>>>>>> on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or
>>>>>> electricity: *FastMail WARNING: URL text and host don't match,
>>>>>> possible phishing attempt. URL disabled. Original URL='_
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=_'.
>>>>>> Original text='_
>>>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/_'.
>>>>>> For more information on phishing click here.*,
>>>>>> On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, *FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a
>>>>>> possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
>>>>>> Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more information on
>>>>>> phishing click here.* wrote:
>>>>>>> Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured.
>>>>>>> This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of
>>>>>>> asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on
>>>>>>> their view of net neutrality.
>>>>>>> But find my attempt inline:
>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <*FastMail WARNING: URL
>>>>>>> text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL
>>>>>>> disabled. Original URL='_javascript:return_'. For more
>>>>>>> information on phishing click here.*> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
> Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
> 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been
> concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting
> it may leave one in not very good standing..
>>>>>>> This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an
>>>>>>> answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have
>>>>>>> determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating
>>>>>>> requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero
>>>>>>> rating.
>>>>>>> > 2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating
>>>>>>> > infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users
>>>>>>> > access to the Internet". Are other service providers,
>>>>>>> > including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee,
>>>>>>> > stopped or hindered from offering their services when some
>>>>>>> > companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at
>>>>>>> > the same time?
>>>>>>> This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling
>>>>>>> point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a
>>>>>>> data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated
>>>>>>> area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for
>>>>>>> using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
>>>>>>> > 3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of
>>>>>>> > Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet"
>>>>>>> > i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services
>>>>>>> > and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot
>>>>>>> > access that site/service from your country, meaning many
>>>>>>> > services providers already practise packet filtering.
>>>>>>> True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed,
>>>>>>> and there are different legislation from country to country on
>>>>>>> those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth
>>>>>>> trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises
>>>>>>> unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more
>>>>>>> resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe.
>>>>>>> Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in
>>>>>>> 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it
>>>>>>> hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
>>>>>>> So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in
>>>>>>> Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand.
>>>>>>> Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt
>>>>>>> is upto the community.
>>>>>>> > 4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but
>>>>>>> > probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best
>>>>>>> > market is the one where ALL service providers are given the
>>>>>>> > opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left
>>>>>>> > to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that
>>>>>>> > decide which companies and services survive and which wilt
>>>>>>> > along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by
>>>>>>> > barring certain services or business models?
>>>>>>> Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :).
>>>>>>> In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a
>>>>>>> consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer
>>>>>>> beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
>>>>>>> At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable
>>>>>>> in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready
>>>>>>> to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another
>>>>>>> country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one
>>>>>>> with affordable broadband will experience faster economic
>>>>>>> growth. This is just an hypothesis.
>>>>>>> > 5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of
>>>>>>> > Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said
>>>>>>> > it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use.
>>>>>>> > How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free"
>>>>>>> > as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only
>>>>>>> > offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
>>>>>>> Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region
>>>>>>> of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the
>>>>>>> next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown
>>>>>>> around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf,
>>>>>>> infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged
>>>>>>> when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet.
>>>>>>> Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
> On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
> the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I
> have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few
> shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
>>>>>>> And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say
>>>>>>> how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also
>>>>>>> organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like
>>>>>>> Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
> I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
> area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in
> advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
> Kind Regards,
>>>>>>>
> Waudo
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list
>> in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating
>> this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested
>> with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook
>> are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and
>> Akua for graciously joining this debate.
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
>> connectivity infrastructure?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even
>> those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free
>> basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to
>> smart phones?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
>> welcomed to the party?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
>> suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and
>> a few vanilla websites the Internet?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
>> internet to everyone?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> 10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion
>> of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the
>> Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world
>> have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that
>> the Internet provides?
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>> Mwendwa Kivuva
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in
>>>>> ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst
>>>>> for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT
>>>>> enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT
>>>> policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for
>>>> reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT
>>>> enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
>>>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
development.
>>>
>>>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sidney Ochieng Skype: sidney.ochieng | Twitter: @princelySid |
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On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can
be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi" Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation. Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month. http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-ma... On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can
be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation.
Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month.
http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-ma...
On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hello, All!!! I’m back from annual leave, which I spent running after (and barely keeping up with) the three active, insatiably curious and insanely opinionated small people that my husband I made. I’m happy to be back at work to have easier conversations. ;-) So-I think that reasonable people can absolutely differ on how they feel about Facebook’s campaign to get Indian users to engage in the policy conversation about Free Basics and zero rating. From Facebook’s perspective, it was an attempt to engage the very people who would be most affected in the debate, and to get them to participate. Again, I certainly think that people can disagree on whether/how people should have been directly engaged. BUT. Facebook did NOT orchestrate a distributed denial of service attack against TRAI, and insinuating that this is the case, per the original article posted here means the writer doesn’t have an understanding of what DDOS attacks actually are. For info, please see here-http://www.digitalattackmap.com/understanding-ddos/ or here- https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/faq-what-is-ddos-denial-of-service-attack.... DDOS attacks are technical attacks that overwhelm a target by building networks of infected computers, known as ‘botnets’ and then spreading malicious software through emails, websites and social media. Once infected, these machines can be controlled remotely, without their owners' knowledge, and used like an army to launch an attack against any target. Some botnets are millions of machines strong. Botnets generate huge floods of traffic, by sending more connection requests than a server can handle, or having computers send the victim huge amounts of random data to use up the target’s bandwidth. That is not, at all, what happened in India, and the fact that citizens sent both pro and con messages to policy makers seems, to me, to be exactly what we want citizens to do-engage with policy makers. In my view, even if they sent messages to TRAI saying no to Free Basics, that’s a win, because it’s citizens engaging in policy issues, and making their views known. Using the Interwebs and social media. ;-) So, again-fine to disagree with FB asking citizens to engage, but completely factually incorrect to say that TRAI was DDOSed. Words mean things, and that’s not what DDOS means. Happy new year, all-we really look forward to engaging with and learning more from this community in 2016!! Best, Ebele [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=> Blog: www.alyhussein.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.alyhussein.com_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=PlWEiH903VXZabYNBqwXuQoqsaGj5cIya8osx2-r4pY&e=> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation. Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month. http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-mark-zuckerbergs-generosity-cover-landgrab-facebooks-free-internet?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.economist.com_news_business-2Dand-2Dfinance_21685292-2Dcritics-2Dargue-2Dmark-2Dzuckerbergs-2Dgenerosity-2Dcover-2Dlandgrab-2Dfacebooks-2Dfree-2Dinternet-3Ffsrc-3Dscn_tw_te_bl_ed_facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=7lHadaJGLaQl7-IHj5OUtsBYRnbcqKR8K2b_ulYXQm4&e=> On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>> wrote: On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=23WFJWp7gson5M9H1hY8JBycDg0hDHe4iC77JJlcchE&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_info-2540alyhussein.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=NdynnqGJkgqXk6lO0nbmu7JQ2RlHAWVX0hjVZr6K5cs&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Interesting to hear the other side of the coin. Ebele, would you mind sharing any ongoing Community iniatives conducted by facebook in our region and the impact? Thank you On Jan 11, 2016 6:12 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello, All!!!
I’m back from annual leave, which I spent running after (and barely keeping up with) the three active, insatiably curious and insanely opinionated small people that my husband I made. I’m happy to be back at work to have easier conversations. ;-)
So-I think that reasonable people can absolutely differ on how they feel about Facebook’s campaign to get Indian users to engage in the policy conversation about Free Basics and zero rating. From Facebook’s perspective, it was an attempt to engage the very people who would be most affected in the debate, and to get them to participate. Again, I certainly think that people can disagree on whether/how people should have been directly engaged.
BUT. Facebook did NOT orchestrate a distributed denial of service attack against TRAI, and insinuating that this is the case, per the original article posted here means the writer doesn’t have an understanding of what DDOS attacks actually are. For info, please see here- http://www.digitalattackmap.com/understanding-ddos/ or here- https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/faq-what-is-ddos-denial-of-service-attack... .
DDOS attacks are technical attacks that overwhelm a target by building networks of infected computers, known as ‘botnets’ and then spreading malicious software through emails, websites and social media. Once infected, these machines can be controlled remotely, without their owners' knowledge, and used like an army to launch an attack against any target. Some botnets are millions of machines strong. Botnets generate huge floods of traffic, by sending more connection requests than a server can handle, or having computers send the victim huge amounts of random data to use up the target’s bandwidth.
That is not, at all, what happened in India, and the fact that citizens sent both pro and con messages to policy makers seems, to me, to be exactly what we want citizens to do-engage with policy makers. In my view, even if they sent messages to TRAI saying no to Free Basics, that’s a win, because it’s citizens engaging in policy issues, and making their views known. Using the Interwebs and social media. ;-)
So, again-fine to disagree with FB asking citizens to engage, but completely factually incorrect to say that TRAI was DDOSed. Words mean things, and that’s not what DDOS means.
Happy new year, all-we really look forward to engaging with and learning more from this community in 2016!!
Best, Ebele
[image: Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation.
Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month.
http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-ma... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.economist.com_news_business-2Dand-2Dfinance_21685292-2Dcritics-2Dargue-2Dmark-2Dzuckerbergs-2Dgenerosity-2Dcover-2Dlandgrab-2Dfacebooks-2Dfree-2Dinternet-3Ffsrc-3Dscn_tw_te_bl_ed_facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=7lHadaJGLaQl7-IHj5OUtsBYRnbcqKR8K2b_ulYXQm4&e=> On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools
can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=23WFJWp7gson5M9H1hY8JBycDg0hDHe4iC77JJlcchE&e=>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_info-2540alyhussein.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=NdynnqGJkgqXk6lO0nbmu7JQ2RlHAWVX0hjVZr6K5cs&e=>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Good morning! What exactly do you mean when you say community initiatives? And when you say region, do you mean all of Africa, or East Africa, or Kenya? I’ve previously described the Continent-wide plans related to connectivity (not Free Basics-the ones related to infrastructure connectivity)-is that what you mean? Or are you talking about things like child online safety, developer engagement, online violence against women, our politics and government trainings, our SMB engagement, the Africa Innovation Challenge—all described/announced on earlier threads-or are referring to something else? And when you say impact, it’s hard to know what you mean, given that everything we are doing across Africa is brand new or scoped for 2016. We launched our first ever office in an African country in June of 2015, and the head of the office started in September. Perhaps the best thing for me to ask is-do you have any thoughts/recommendations? Happy to hear about them! I will say, however, that I strongly believe that the best way that a company contributes to a community is by offering a product that is useful, by being an ethical business that upholds human rights standards, by treating employees fairly, etc. And I think every company can always get better at those things, including Facebook. That said, I do think that Facebook provides an unparalleled platform to connect people to ideas and people they care about, and I also think that the potential Facebook has to support community values like political engagement, transparency, education, health, good governance, and economic empowerment for small business across all of our respective countries is truly revolutionary. But grateful for specifics, per questions above! Best, Ebele [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2016 at 4:41 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Interesting to hear the other side of the coin. Ebele, would you mind sharing any ongoing Community iniatives conducted by facebook in our region and the impact? Thank you On Jan 11, 2016 6:12 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Hello, All!!! I’m back from annual leave, which I spent running after (and barely keeping up with) the three active, insatiably curious and insanely opinionated small people that my husband I made. I’m happy to be back at work to have easier conversations. ;-) So-I think that reasonable people can absolutely differ on how they feel about Facebook’s campaign to get Indian users to engage in the policy conversation about Free Basics and zero rating. From Facebook’s perspective, it was an attempt to engage the very people who would be most affected in the debate, and to get them to participate. Again, I certainly think that people can disagree on whether/how people should have been directly engaged. BUT. Facebook did NOT orchestrate a distributed denial of service attack against TRAI, and insinuating that this is the case, per the original article posted here means the writer doesn’t have an understanding of what DDOS attacks actually are. For info, please see here-http://www.digitalattackmap.com/understanding-ddos<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalattackmap.com_understanding-2Dddos&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=ed7K58EJ32Xx4WmB2sDk-qXhWwms8m9Bieb8DK0ojK4&e=>/ or here- https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/faq-what-is-ddos-denial-of-service-attacks-definition.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.stateoftheinternet.com_faq-2Dwhat-2Dis-2Dddos-2Ddenial-2Dof-2Dservice-2Dattacks-2Ddefinition.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=iuGHSfh-gLJljejH0L61KoKlx83Gp9rBREY_DfElfXI&e=>. DDOS attacks are technical attacks that overwhelm a target by building networks of infected computers, known as ‘botnets’ and then spreading malicious software through emails, websites and social media. Once infected, these machines can be controlled remotely, without their owners' knowledge, and used like an army to launch an attack against any target. Some botnets are millions of machines strong. Botnets generate huge floods of traffic, by sending more connection requests than a server can handle, or having computers send the victim huge amounts of random data to use up the target’s bandwidth. That is not, at all, what happened in India, and the fact that citizens sent both pro and con messages to policy makers seems, to me, to be exactly what we want citizens to do-engage with policy makers. In my view, even if they sent messages to TRAI saying no to Free Basics, that’s a win, because it’s citizens engaging in policy issues, and making their views known. Using the Interwebs and social media. ;-) So, again-fine to disagree with FB asking citizens to engage, but completely factually incorrect to say that TRAI was DDOSed. Words mean things, and that’s not what DDOS means. Happy new year, all-we really look forward to engaging with and learning more from this community in 2016!! Best, Ebele [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20771%20156%201315> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113<tel:%2B254%200713%20601113> / 0770906375<tel:0770906375> Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=> Blog: www.alyhussein.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.alyhussein.com_&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=PlWEiH903VXZabYNBqwXuQoqsaGj5cIya8osx2-r4pY&e=> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation. Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month. http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-mark-zuckerbergs-generosity-cover-landgrab-facebooks-free-internet?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.economist.com_news_business-2Dand-2Dfinance_21685292-2Dcritics-2Dargue-2Dmark-2Dzuckerbergs-2Dgenerosity-2Dcover-2Dlandgrab-2Dfacebooks-2Dfree-2Dinternet-3Ffsrc-3Dscn_tw_te_bl_ed_facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=7lHadaJGLaQl7-IHj5OUtsBYRnbcqKR8K2b_ulYXQm4&e=> On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>> wrote: On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=23WFJWp7gson5M9H1hY8JBycDg0hDHe4iC77JJlcchE&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_info-2540alyhussein.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=NdynnqGJkgqXk6lO0nbmu7JQ2RlHAWVX0hjVZr6K5cs&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=Z_-C4GTOx9P6o4b2bj32lSRop75Y__wtll5lxIPYafg&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_otieno.barrack-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=g1Ko1sdTsdmjtrjowgkTSslaPc7WiP1flQK6XlRSqi0&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Found this article which holds a rare view of Internet.org interesting. Claiming that Internet.org is a thinly veiled for-profit initiative masquerading as a philanthropic organization is a misguided notion http://www.iafrikan.com/2015/08/21/defending-internet-org/ On Monday, 11 January 2016, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Good morning! What exactly do you mean when you say community initiatives? And when you say region, do you mean all of Africa, or East Africa, or Kenya? I’ve previously described the Continent-wide plans related to connectivity (not Free Basics-the ones related to infrastructure connectivity)-is that what you mean? Or are you talking about things like child online safety, developer engagement, online violence against women, our politics and government trainings, our SMB engagement, the Africa Innovation Challenge—all described/announced on earlier threads-or are referring to something else? And when you say impact, it’s hard to know what you mean, given that everything we are doing across Africa is brand new or scoped for 2016. We launched our first ever office in an African country in June of 2015, and the head of the office started in September.
Perhaps the best thing for me to ask is-do you have any thoughts/recommendations? Happy to hear about them!
I will say, however, that I strongly believe that the best way that a company contributes to a community is by offering a product that is useful, by being an ethical business that upholds human rights standards, by treating employees fairly, etc. And I think every company can always get better at those things, including Facebook. That said, I do think that Facebook provides an unparalleled platform to connect people to ideas and people they care about, and I also think that the potential Facebook has to support community values like political engagement, transparency, education, health, good governance, and economic empowerment for small business across all of our respective countries is truly revolutionary.
But grateful for specifics, per questions above! Best, Ebele
[image: Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ebeleokobi@fb.com');>
From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','otieno.barrack@gmail.com');>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2016 at 4:41 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ebeleokobi@fb.com');>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Interesting to hear the other side of the coin. Ebele, would you mind sharing any ongoing Community iniatives conducted by facebook in our region and the impact?
Thank you On Jan 11, 2016 6:12 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> wrote:
Hello, All!!!
I’m back from annual leave, which I spent running after (and barely keeping up with) the three active, insatiably curious and insanely opinionated small people that my husband I made. I’m happy to be back at work to have easier conversations. ;-)
So-I think that reasonable people can absolutely differ on how they feel about Facebook’s campaign to get Indian users to engage in the policy conversation about Free Basics and zero rating. From Facebook’s perspective, it was an attempt to engage the very people who would be most affected in the debate, and to get them to participate. Again, I certainly think that people can disagree on whether/how people should have been directly engaged.
BUT. Facebook did NOT orchestrate a distributed denial of service attack against TRAI, and insinuating that this is the case, per the original article posted here means the writer doesn’t have an understanding of what DDOS attacks actually are. For info, please see here- http://www.digitalattackmap.com/understanding-ddos <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalattackmap.com_understanding-2Dddos&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=ed7K58EJ32Xx4WmB2sDk-qXhWwms8m9Bieb8DK0ojK4&e=>/ or here- https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/faq-what-is-ddos-denial-of-service-attack... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.stateoftheinternet.com_faq-2Dwhat-2Dis-2Dddos-2Ddenial-2Dof-2Dservice-2Dattacks-2Ddefinition.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=iuGHSfh-gLJljejH0L61KoKlx83Gp9rBREY_DfElfXI&e=> .
DDOS attacks are technical attacks that overwhelm a target by building networks of infected computers, known as ‘botnets’ and then spreading malicious software through emails, websites and social media. Once infected, these machines can be controlled remotely, without their owners' knowledge, and used like an army to launch an attack against any target. Some botnets are millions of machines strong. Botnets generate huge floods of traffic, by sending more connection requests than a server can handle, or having computers send the victim huge amounts of random data to use up the target’s bandwidth.
That is not, at all, what happened in India, and the fact that citizens sent both pro and con messages to policy makers seems, to me, to be exactly what we want citizens to do-engage with policy makers. In my view, even if they sent messages to TRAI saying no to Free Basics, that’s a win, because it’s citizens engaging in policy issues, and making their views known. Using the Interwebs and social media. ;-)
So, again-fine to disagree with FB asking citizens to engage, but completely factually incorrect to say that TRAI was DDOSed. Words mean things, and that’s not what DDOS means.
Happy new year, all-we really look forward to engaging with and learning more from this community in 2016!!
Best, Ebele
[image: Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ebeleokobi@fb.com');>
From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet-bounces%2Bebeleokobi%5Cx3dfb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ebeleokobi@fb.com');>> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ali@hussein.me.ke');>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website.
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=xwlLOdIblQQIc_KYDNwDlGBBrYAKdcUvsZ_-ENs_04M&e=>
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> wrote:
In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation.
Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month.
http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21685292-critics-argue-ma... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.economist.com_news_business-2Dand-2Dfinance_21685292-2Dcritics-2Dargue-2Dmark-2Dzuckerbergs-2Dgenerosity-2Dcover-2Dlandgrab-2Dfacebooks-2Dfree-2Dinternet-3Ffsrc-3Dscn_tw_te_bl_ed_facebooksfreeinternetprogrammehitsaroadblockinindia&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=X5jGnb8ciKQV_7MhlV7WiX9LVsPm_uvdbcY38tRwRds&s=7lHadaJGLaQl7-IHj5OUtsBYRnbcqKR8K2b_ulYXQm4&e=> On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Kivuva@transworldafrica.com');>> wrote:
On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools
can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
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Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your feedback and welcome back, i think you have answered most of my questions even though i was looking for success stories or feedback on some of the initiatives Facebook has engaged in Kenya Specifically and East Africa by extension. However, we are happy to hear what is happening in other Regions in Africa, West, North, Central and South since the information provides great insights. Best Regards On 1/11/16, Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
Good morning! What exactly do you mean when you say community initiatives? And when you say region, do you mean all of Africa, or East Africa, or Kenya? I’ve previously described the Continent-wide plans related to connectivity (not Free Basics-the ones related to infrastructure connectivity)-is that what you mean? Or are you talking about things like child online safety, developer engagement, online violence against women, our politics and government trainings, our SMB engagement, the Africa Innovation Challenge—all described/announced on earlier threads-or are referring to something else? And when you say impact, it’s hard to know what you mean, given that everything we are doing across Africa is brand new or scoped for 2016. We launched our first ever office in an African country in June of 2015, and the head of the office started in September.
Perhaps the best thing for me to ask is-do you have any thoughts/recommendations? Happy to hear about them!
I will say, however, that I strongly believe that the best way that a company contributes to a community is by offering a product that is useful, by being an ethical business that upholds human rights standards, by treating employees fairly, etc. And I think every company can always get better at those things, including Facebook. That said, I do think that Facebook provides an unparalleled platform to connect people to ideas and people they care about, and I also think that the potential Facebook has to support community values like political engagement, transparency, education, health, good governance, and economic empowerment for small business across all of our respective countries is truly revolutionary.
But grateful for specifics, per questions above! Best, Ebele
[Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com
From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2016 at 4:41 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Interesting to hear the other side of the coin. Ebele, would you mind sharing any ongoing Community iniatives conducted by facebook in our region and the impact?
Thank you
On Jan 11, 2016 6:12 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Hello, All!!!
I’m back from annual leave, which I spent running after (and barely keeping up with) the three active, insatiably curious and insanely opinionated small people that my husband I made. I’m happy to be back at work to have easier conversations. ;-)
So-I think that reasonable people can absolutely differ on how they feel about Facebook’s campaign to get Indian users to engage in the policy conversation about Free Basics and zero rating. From Facebook’s perspective, it was an attempt to engage the very people who would be most affected in the debate, and to get them to participate. Again, I certainly think that people can disagree on whether/how people should have been directly engaged.
BUT. Facebook did NOT orchestrate a distributed denial of service attack against TRAI, and insinuating that this is the case, per the original article posted here means the writer doesn’t have an understanding of what DDOS attacks actually are. For info, please see here-http://www.digitalattackmap.com/understanding-ddos<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalattackmap.com_understanding-2Dddos&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=ed7K58EJ32Xx4WmB2sDk-qXhWwms8m9Bieb8DK0ojK4&e=>/ or here- https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/faq-what-is-ddos-denial-of-service-attacks-definition.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.stateoftheinternet.com_faq-2Dwhat-2Dis-2Dddos-2Ddenial-2Dof-2Dservice-2Dattacks-2Ddefinition.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=GR2D5B3xjkNTPICmNLI-A81qbfL1zkq8fWzS36z-7-A&s=iuGHSfh-gLJljejH0L61KoKlx83Gp9rBREY_DfElfXI&e=>.
DDOS attacks are technical attacks that overwhelm a target by building networks of infected computers, known as ‘botnets’ and then spreading malicious software through emails, websites and social media. Once infected, these machines can be controlled remotely, without their owners' knowledge, and used like an army to launch an attack against any target. Some botnets are millions of machines strong. Botnets generate huge floods of traffic, by sending more connection requests than a server can handle, or having computers send the victim huge amounts of random data to use up the target’s bandwidth.
That is not, at all, what happened in India, and the fact that citizens sent both pro and con messages to policy makers seems, to me, to be exactly what we want citizens to do-engage with policy makers. In my view, even if they sent messages to TRAI saying no to Free Basics, that’s a win, because it’s citizens engaging in policy issues, and making their views known. Using the Interwebs and social media. ;-)
So, again-fine to disagree with FB asking citizens to engage, but completely factually incorrect to say that TRAI was DDOSed. Words mean things, and that’s not what DDOS means.
Happy new year, all-we really look forward to engaging with and learning more from this community in 2016!!
Best, Ebele [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20771%20156%201315> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>
From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM To: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Cc: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Even more important are the serious allegations of how Facebook is influencing public participation. One of these being a deliberate DDOS attack on the regulators website.
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113<tel:%2B254%200713%20601113> / 0770906375<tel:0770906375>
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Jan 2016, at 2:08 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
In December the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India suspended Free Basics in India pending the results of its public consultation.
Will free basics be allowed in India? We will know the verdict at the end of the month.
On Dec 4, 2015 6:20 PM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com>> wrote:
On Dec 4, 2015 3:25 PM, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
Dr. Waudo, I'm between travels and responding is a little bit difficult, but I will at the next opportune time. I only want to appreciate the great work FB team in Africa has done, especially with community outreach and communication like this. It is very commendable.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
Answers below! [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 10:00 AM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? Our role is the same as our public policy colleagues around the world-we are ambassadors for Facebook in our markets, and ambassadors to Facebook on behalf of our markets. We engage with policy makers across Sub-Saharan Africa (we have a colleague who covers MENA) and with civil society, NGOs, and other policy influencers on policy issues that are relevant to our company. The list of issues is extremely long, but highlights include net neutrality, privacy/free expression, child safety, online violence against women, access policies (which include issues like spectrum allocation, right of way tax)-really, any policy issue that is connected with being a tech company and social media platform. 2. What led to the creation of the team? Same as with all of our other policy teams-business interest and opportunity should be supported with policy engagement. We launched our first Africa business office this past June, and our team supports our business and policy objectives. 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? I actually covered our connectivity plans fairly exhaustively in my first email—can you please have a look and come back to me if you have specific follow up questions? W/r to local content, I’m REALLY excited about this, because this is where I think there is so much opportunity to amplify great local content. We have hired, also per my first email, Emeka Afigbo, who is leading on content partnerships for Free Basics and will also lead on developer engagement across EMEA. We also have Dayo Olopade, who is leading on media partnerships for Facebook’s platform (so, not Free Basics), which will include news, entertainment, sport, etc.-she is joined by Michael Ohene-Djan, who leads on engagement with entertainment, specifically. To the extent that you have specific recommendations for any of those people/teams, do let me know, and I’d be happy to connect you. 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? I also covered this in my first email, but I am happy to re-state- We believe that services should not be throttled and access should not be degraded. We are in favor of an open Internet and business arrangements that provide Internet access to more people. We believe that zero-rating can be a powerful tool to aid competition-it is most often used by market challengers against entrenched incumbents. We do not believe that zero-rating of services, especially where the content provider a) does not own the “pipes”; b) does not pay operators for content to be zero-rated; c) offers the content to all operators on a non-exclusive basis; d) does not require operators to exclusively carry their content, zero-rated or not, does NOT violate net neutrality. If you have any specific questions, after reviewing the above or my previous email, happy to reply! Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=>, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=ejTJSA1Ii_nH1yv4L-4D-9LsRNeZgcGaew0ikL4BIT8&e= Unsubscribe or change your options at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=MIDOW1aUaio5OVMgPpueIyPPWgYumAkLegk3fK70_Qk&e= The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=BtBuRSpN-IAX2-_hijh_2OLpD0O-CKkCXzLEucfF3Xk&s=CRQ3oCaQ5MOvPxqPdefkRJpuXCz4WK6qjav4o3wO3wY&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_otieno.barrack-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=BtBuRSpN-IAX2-_hijh_2OLpD0O-CKkCXzLEucfF3Xk&s=yoXsjNt91cBc9qzUqVuqJ8zQ6tKIS0UGJBCbYZlG4mM&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Many thanks Ebele, Very usefull information. Regards On Dec 3, 2015 5:00 PM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
Answers below!
[image: Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 10:00 AM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Hi Ebele,
Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed.
1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? *Our role is the same as our public policy colleagues around the world-we are ambassadors for Facebook in our markets, and ambassadors to Facebook on behalf of our markets. We engage with policy makers across Sub-Saharan Africa (we have a colleague who covers MENA) and with civil society, NGOs, and other policy influencers on policy issues that are relevant to our company. The list of issues is extremely long, but highlights include net neutrality, privacy/free expression, child safety, online violence against women, access policies (which include issues like spectrum allocation, right of way tax)-really, any policy issue that is connected with being a tech company and social media platform.*
2. What led to the creation of the team? Same as with all of our other policy teams-business interest and opportunity should be supported with policy engagement. We launched our first Africa business office this past June, and our team supports our business and policy objectives.
3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? *I actually covered our connectivity plans fairly exhaustively in my first email—can you please have a look and come back to me if you have specific follow up questions? W/r to local content, I’m REALLY excited about this, because this is where I think there is so much opportunity to amplify great local content. We have hired, also per my first email, Emeka Afigbo, who is leading on content partnerships for Free Basics and will also lead on developer engagement across EMEA. We also have Dayo Olopade, who is leading on media partnerships for Facebook’s platform (so, not Free Basics), which will include news, entertainment, sport, etc.-she is joined by Michael Ohene-Djan, who leads on engagement with entertainment, specifically. To the extent that you have specific recommendations for any of those people/teams, do let me know, and I’d be happy to connect you.*
4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? *I also covered this in my first email, but I am happy to re-state-* *We believe that services should not be throttled and access should not be degraded.* *We are in favor of an open Internet and business arrangements that provide Internet access to more people. * *We believe that zero-rating can be a powerful tool to aid competition-it is most often used by market challengers against entrenched incumbents.* *We do not believe that zero-rating of services, especially where the content provider a) does not own the “pipes”; b) does not pay operators for content to be zero-rated; c) offers the content to all operators on a non-exclusive basis; d) does not require operators to exclusively carry their content, zero-rated or not, does NOT violate net neutrality.*
*If you have any specific questions, after reviewing the above or my previous email, happy to reply!*
Please educate me
Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive.
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo
On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=> , On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion
of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi Ebele, Those were great responses to questions on net-neutrality vs. zero rating.....and the commitment of Facebook to support delivery of affordable 'full internet'. My interest is in your engagement work on Spectrum Policy in connection to the efforts of the ConnectivityLab. Facebook has partnered with others in Ghana to pilot TV Whitespace as a connectivity solution for affordable rural broadband. Facebook's partner in Ghana includes Microsoft, which has supported the development of Mawingu Networks - a TVWS connectivity startup in Kenya. There is however no mention of TVWhitespace technology on Internet.org. With the above in mind; 1) What is the experience of Facebook in using TV Whitespace technology as an option to connect underserved areas? ...as opposed to the other connectivity approaches by ConnectivityLab. 2) With more African countries set to free-up analogue TV spectrum in the coming months as they migrate to Digital TV, are there plans by Facebook to promote the use of TVWhitespace spectrum as an affordable option to avail the 'full internet'? 3) Will the FreeBasics model be applied to the WiFi projects that use TV Whitespace spectrum to connect the underserved? 4) What policy barriers has Facebook faced (or barriers it foresees) in running TVWS connectivity projects in Ghana or launching a similar initiative in Kenya? Regards, Wainaina On 3 Dec 2015 17:30, "Barrack Otieno via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Many thanks Ebele,
Very usefull information.
Regards On Dec 3, 2015 5:00 PM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
Answers below!
[image: Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630]
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 10:00 AM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet
Hi Ebele,
Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed.
1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? *Our role is the same as our public policy colleagues around the world-we are ambassadors for Facebook in our markets, and ambassadors to Facebook on behalf of our markets. We engage with policy makers across Sub-Saharan Africa (we have a colleague who covers MENA) and with civil society, NGOs, and other policy influencers on policy issues that are relevant to our company. The list of issues is extremely long, but highlights include net neutrality, privacy/free expression, child safety, online violence against women, access policies (which include issues like spectrum allocation, right of way tax)-really, any policy issue that is connected with being a tech company and social media platform.*
2. What led to the creation of the team? Same as with all of our other policy teams-business interest and opportunity should be supported with policy engagement. We launched our first Africa business office this past June, and our team supports our business and policy objectives.
3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? *I actually covered our connectivity plans fairly exhaustively in my first email—can you please have a look and come back to me if you have specific follow up questions? W/r to local content, I’m REALLY excited about this, because this is where I think there is so much opportunity to amplify great local content. We have hired, also per my first email, Emeka Afigbo, who is leading on content partnerships for Free Basics and will also lead on developer engagement across EMEA. We also have Dayo Olopade, who is leading on media partnerships for Facebook’s platform (so, not Free Basics), which will include news, entertainment, sport, etc.-she is joined by Michael Ohene-Djan, who leads on engagement with entertainment, specifically. To the extent that you have specific recommendations for any of those people/teams, do let me know, and I’d be happy to connect you.*
4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? *I also covered this in my first email, but I am happy to re-state-* *We believe that services should not be throttled and access should not be degraded.* *We are in favor of an open Internet and business arrangements that provide Internet access to more people. * *We believe that zero-rating can be a powerful tool to aid competition-it is most often used by market challengers against entrenched incumbents.* *We do not believe that zero-rating of services, especially where the content provider a) does not own the “pipes”; b) does not pay operators for content to be zero-rated; c) offers the content to all operators on a non-exclusive basis; d) does not require operators to exclusively carry their content, zero-rated or not, does NOT violate net neutrality.*
*If you have any specific questions, after reviewing the above or my previous email, happy to reply!*
Please educate me
Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive.
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo
On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=> , On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com wrote:
Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
But find my attempt inline:
On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been
concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.
So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?
At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate. percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion
of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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Answers below- [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com From: <wainaina@madeinkenya.org<mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org>> on behalf of DigitalTVAfrica <wainaina@DigitalTVAfrica.com<mailto:wainaina@DigitalTVAfrica.com>> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 4:54 PM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>>, Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Hi Ebele, Those were great responses to questions on net-neutrality vs. zero rating.....and the commitment of Facebook to support delivery of affordable 'full internet'. My interest is in your engagement work on Spectrum Policy in connection to the efforts of the ConnectivityLab. Facebook has partnered with others in Ghana to pilot TV Whitespace as a connectivity solution for affordable rural broadband. Facebook's partner in Ghana includes Microsoft, which has supported the development of Mawingu Networks - a TVWS connectivity startup in Kenya. There is however no mention of TVWhitespace technology on Internet.org. With the above in mind; 1) What is the experience of Facebook in using TV Whitespace technology as an option to connect underserved areas? ...as opposed to the other connectivity approaches by ConnectivityLab. I think the overall point is that FB is agnostic as to the medium-we think that there are many different potential connectivity solutions, and we are working on pilots of many different technologies with different partners. I don’t think we have enough pilots to be able to give an opinion, but we look forward to learning more in 2016. 2) With more African countries set to free-up analogue TV spectrum in the coming months as they migrate to Digital TV, are there plans by Facebook to promote the use of TVWhitespace spectrum as an affordable option to avail the 'full internet'? Per above-we are agnostic-we wouldn’t necessarily promote one solution over another, as we believe it’s quite context-specific. AT the moment, we are a bit more focused on Aquila, express wi-fi, satellite back haul and a couple of other rural connectivity pilots, but we also note the excellent work that Microsoft is doing with TV Whitespace 3) Will the FreeBasics model be applied to the WiFi projects that use TV Whitespace spectrum to connect the underserved? What projects are you referring to? Our Express WiFi projects are not using TV White space. 4) What policy barriers has Facebook faced (or barriers it foresees) in running TVWS connectivity projects in Ghana or launching a similar initiative in Kenya? Per above, we are currently focused a bit more on the pilots outlined above at present. Regards, Wainaina On 3 Dec 2015 17:30, "Barrack Otieno via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Many thanks Ebele, Very usefull information. Regards On Dec 3, 2015 5:00 PM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> wrote: Answers below! [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01C8F888.8FCCE630] Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20771%20156%201315> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 10:00 AM To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to KICTANet Hi Ebele, Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed. 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa? Our role is the same as our public policy colleagues around the world-we are ambassadors for Facebook in our markets, and ambassadors to Facebook on behalf of our markets. We engage with policy makers across Sub-Saharan Africa (we have a colleague who covers MENA) and with civil society, NGOs, and other policy influencers on policy issues that are relevant to our company. The list of issues is extremely long, but highlights include net neutrality, privacy/free expression, child safety, online violence against women, access policies (which include issues like spectrum allocation, right of way tax)-really, any policy issue that is connected with being a tech company and social media platform. 2. What led to the creation of the team? Same as with all of our other policy teams-business interest and opportunity should be supported with policy engagement. We launched our first Africa business office this past June, and our team supports our business and policy objectives. 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas? I actually covered our connectivity plans fairly exhaustively in my first email—can you please have a look and come back to me if you have specific follow up questions? W/r to local content, I’m REALLY excited about this, because this is where I think there is so much opportunity to amplify great local content. We have hired, also per my first email, Emeka Afigbo, who is leading on content partnerships for Free Basics and will also lead on developer engagement across EMEA. We also have Dayo Olopade, who is leading on media partnerships for Facebook’s platform (so, not Free Basics), which will include news, entertainment, sport, etc.-she is joined by Michael Ohene-Djan, who leads on engagement with entertainment, specifically. To the extent that you have specific recommendations for any of those people/teams, do let me know, and I’d be happy to connect you. 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same? I also covered this in my first email, but I am happy to re-state- We believe that services should not be throttled and access should not be degraded. We are in favor of an open Internet and business arrangements that provide Internet access to more people. We believe that zero-rating can be a powerful tool to aid competition-it is most often used by market challengers against entrenched incumbents. We do not believe that zero-rating of services, especially where the content provider a) does not own the “pipes”; b) does not pay operators for content to be zero-rated; c) offers the content to all operators on a non-exclusive basis; d) does not require operators to exclusively carry their content, zero-rated or not, does NOT violate net neutrality. If you have any specific questions, after reviewing the above or my previous email, happy to reply! Please educate me Thanks On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't survive. Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. Waudo On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote: There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=>, On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, Kivuva@transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote: Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality. But find my attempt inline: On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com<mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com>> wrote:
Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..
This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero rating.
2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?
3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.
True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue. So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?
Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice? At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.
Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for free.
And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)
I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.
I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure?
4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?
6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?
9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?
10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
Sincerely,
Mwendwa Kivuva
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participants (9)
-
Ali Hussein -
Barrack Otieno -
Dennis Kioko -
DigitalTVAfrica -
Ebele Okobi -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Network of non- formal Educational institutions -
Sidney Ochieng -
waudo siganga