Moses, The reason i called it misinformation is that the acting DG was on the media when the deal was being signed , unless i was watching Al Kajiado TV and i never heard anything like this, furthermore last year we had a Cyber Security Workshop hosted by CCK where all those issues were explained but i dont recall seeing brethren from the fourth estate, that is why i proposed that they should do more research, imho this kind of reporting can defeat the war on Cybersecurity since the people are an integral part of the Cyberworld. On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't be quick to call this 'misinformation'. Such systems have been deployed the world over,even by the biggest democracies! It all depends on the Government's objectives for doing this - they could go the U.S.A way and crack down on terrorism or they could go the China way and use it to oppress us!

On 21 March 2012 08:27, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

--- On Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this.

snip

mmmhhh...I think a better question to ask is whether you want the Government or Regulator to have this type of legal backing. Wearing my security hat, I can tell you for free that national cyber-security initiatives can never be effective using a "one-stakeholder, do it as I say" approach...(unless u are in China and related cousins like North Korea) Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget.  Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside".  Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...) A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of  the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress) Am not purely against security gadgets being installed.  Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?) If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as  being misquoted) .   walu.    --- On Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote: From: Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens? To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 5:07 PM To the best of my understanding,the story makes perfect sense! The government wants to implement N.E.W.S and ITU is helping it. One of ITU's objective is "To improve telecommunication infrastructure in the developing world and to establish worldwide standards". If part of "worldwide standards" is using telecommunications infrastructure to safeguard the security and interests of a country,they are the correct people to help in this. Moreover,seeing as ITU is part of the U.N,I would argue that they have the financial and technical might needed to do this. The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. On 21 March 2012 09:03, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: Moses, The reason i called it misinformation is that the acting DG was on the media when the deal was being signed , unless i was watching Al Kajiado TV  and i never heard anything like this, furthermore last year we had a Cyber Security Workshop hosted by CCK where all those issues were explained but i dont recall seeing brethren from the fourth estate, that is why i proposed that they should do more research, imho this kind of reporting can defeat the war on Cybersecurity since the people are an integral part of the Cyberworld. On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't be quick to call this 'misinformation'. Such systems have been

deployed the world over,even by the biggest democracies! It all depends on

the Government's objectives for doing this - they could go the U.S.A way

and crack down on terrorism or they could go the China way and use it to

oppress us!

On 21 March 2012 08:27, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Listers,

...

...

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled

...

by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research

...

before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during

...

the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the

...

text..

...

...

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your

...

personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set

...

in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal

...

with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a

...

system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in

...

Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and

...

telecommunications institutions to install it.

...

...

Do you think this is right?

...

...

Hope the concerned will react on time.

...

...

--

...

Barrack O. Otieno

...

+254721325277

...

+254-20-2498789

...

Skype: barrack.otieno

...

http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

...

_______________________________________________

...

Skunkworks mailing list

...

Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke

...

------------

...

List info, subscribe/unsubscribe

...

http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks

...

------------

...

...

Skunkworks Rules

...

http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94

...

------------

...

Other services @ http://my.co.ke

...

--

Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Kind Regards, Moses Muya. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Thanks Moses, in view of all this whats your proposed way forwad since we should not debate for the sake of it, i think CCK is just an implementing entity and we should not focus too much energy on it, what is the role of other stakeholders in countering Cyber threats in Kenya?, first i would wish to correct you when you talk of a one man show because i have been involved in various multistakeholder initiatives as a professional in Standards developement and as a member of the society through various fora that have been initiated by the regulator, there are many bodies such as ISACA, KEBS, CCK, playing key roles if you do a check On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:

First of all,good evening Sir!

mmmhhh...I think a better question to ask is whether you want the Government or Regulator to have this type of legal backing. Wearing my security hat, I can tell you for free that national cyber-security initiatives can never be effective using a "one-stakeholder, do it as I say" approach...(unless u are in China and related cousins like North Korea) *- In my opinion,after the Government has shown interest in something,they are very likely to pursue it to the end. As our former President would say,"Mpende msipende" (whether we want it or not) ,this system or a variant of the same will be installed! Actually,as we speak,the NSIS conducts various forms of electronic surveillance on us. The only choice we have is whether we will allow the Government to spy on us as they please without any grounds for doing that or whether we will force them to follow the correct legal channels. It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil. Btw,have you noticed how silent The CCK has been on this matter? They have not denied the existence of such a system.*

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? *- Not at all! Judging by the fact that 103 websites were hacked by a junior student from Indonesia,I wouldn't depend on the Government to provide any security. I'm afraid we are on our own on this one and it's our responsibility as individuals to make sure we have the right policies within our organisations that will safeguard our ICT/Telecommunications infrastructure.*Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...) *- I agree. However,I think the kind of security that the Government is talking about is not limited to 'eSecurity' per se but rather criminal acts/terrorism planned using electronic means and executed 'offline'. For example,the system will flag a person who has been using an email address to plan an attack on building X in Nairobi. Law enforcement agencies will then follow up on this issue and possibly bring the culprit to book. I stand to be corrected on this one. *

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress) *- Proper legal frameworks? Saying the Government should not have this kind of power because they will misuse it is tantamount to saying the police should not be given guns since they are likely to shoot innocent civilians! It's all a matter of implementing proper laws and proper ethics on the Government's side.*

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?) *- I agree. On the political aspect of it,having 210 members of parliament to decide on anything will simply extend the time taken but won't necessarily stop something that has been rejected by the masses. As we have seen in the past,parliament does not choose what is best for the citizens but what is best for the members' survival,it all depends on political affiliations of the member moving the motion and those seeking to support or reject it. We have also seen how the promises of financial heavens can sway the opinions of the most sober-minded M.Ps! One more shocker, most of the politicians in the U.S who were in support of SOPA/PIPA did not have in-depth knowledge of how these laws would be implemented and their effects on the citizens. How much worse would it be in Kenya where ignorance is more prevalent?*

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .

On 21 March 2012 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote

...

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip

mmmhhh...I think a better question to ask is whether you want the Government or Regulator to have this type of legal backing. Wearing my security hat, I can tell you for free that national cyber-security initiatives can never be effective using a "one-stakeholder, do it as I say" approach...(unless u are in China and related cousins like North Korea)

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .

walu.

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens? To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 5:07 PM

To the best of my understanding,the story makes perfect sense! The government wants to implement N.E.W.S and ITU is helping it. One of ITU's objective is "To improve telecommunication infrastructure in the developing world and to establish worldwide standards". If part of "worldwide standards" is using telecommunications infrastructure to safeguard the security and interests of a country,they are the correct people to help in this. Moreover,seeing as ITU is part of the U.N,I would argue that they have the financial and technical might needed to do this. The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this.

On 21 March 2012 09:03, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Moses,

The reason i called it misinformation is that the acting DG was on the media when the deal was being signed , unless i was watching Al Kajiado TV and i never heard anything like this, furthermore last year we had a Cyber Security Workshop hosted by CCK where all those issues were explained but i dont recall seeing brethren from the fourth estate, that is why i proposed that they should do more research, imho this kind of reporting can defeat the war on Cybersecurity since the people are an integral part of the Cyberworld.

On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=mouzmuyer@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

I wouldn't be quick to call this 'misinformation'. Such systems have been deployed the world over,even by the biggest democracies! It all depends on the Government's objectives for doing this - they could go the U.S.A way and crack down on terrorism or they could go the China way and use it to oppress us!

On 21 March 2012 08:27, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

First of all,good evening Sir!

mmmhhh...I think a better question to ask is whether you want the Government or Regulator to have this type of legal backing. Wearing my security hat, I can tell you for free that national cyber-security initiatives can never be effective using a "one-stakeholder, do it as I say" approach...(unless u are in China and related cousins like North Korea) *- In my opinion,after the Government has shown interest in something,they are very likely to pursue it to the end. As our former President would say,"Mpende msipende" (whether we want it or not) ,this system or a variant of the same will be installed! Actually,as we speak,the NSIS conducts various forms of electronic surveillance on us. The only choice we have is whether we will allow the Government to spy on us as

The issue here is not to oppose surveillance wholesome (I understand- we live in a post 9/11 era), the issue is how will our privacy be protected from the potentially overzealous custodians of the system(s)? By that I mean, what will stop our "very competent" security organs from say selling the information they gather during their surveillance escapades to third parties who in turn will use it for political blackmail, business undercutting, etc? Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Kariuki Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:48 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? Listers, If we agree that preservation of security is the role of state organs and in the physical world Kenyans are willing to cede some "privacy" , by allowing to be searched,to have handbags opened and even produce ID cards; we need to ask ourselves why the state should not provide security in the virtual world especially in light of recent serious cyber threats in our country. Section 83C of Cap.411A mandates CCK to promote public confidence in the integrity and reliability of electronic records and electronic transactions. Can there be public confidence in electronic records and transactions without cyber security? And if state organs do not do it;Who will? John Kariuki _____ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2012, 7:45 Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? Thanks Moses, in view of all this whats your proposed way forwad since we should not debate for the sake of it, i think CCK is just an implementing entity and we should not focus too much energy on it, what is the role of other stakeholders in countering Cyber threats in Kenya?, first i would wish to correct you when you talk of a one man show because i have been involved in various multistakeholder initiatives as a professional in Standards developement and as a member of the society through various fora that have been initiated by the regulator, there are many bodies such as ISACA, KEBS, CCK, playing key roles if you do a check On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote: they

please without any grounds for doing that or whether we will force them to follow the correct legal channels. It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil. Btw,have you noticed how silent The CCK has been on this matter? They have not denied the existence of such a system.*

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? *- Not at all! Judging by the fact that 103 websites were hacked by a junior student from Indonesia,I wouldn't depend on the Government to provide any security. I'm afraid we are on our own on this one and it's our responsibility as individuals to make sure we have the right policies within our organisations that will safeguard our ICT/Telecommunications infrastructure.*Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...) *- I agree. However,I think the kind of security that the Government is talking about is not limited to 'eSecurity' per se but rather criminal acts/terrorism planned using electronic means and executed 'offline'. For example,the system will flag a person who has been using an email address to plan an attack on building X in Nairobi. Law enforcement agencies will then follow up on this issue and possibly bring the culprit to book. I stand to be corrected on this one. *

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress) *- Proper legal frameworks? Saying the Government should not have this kind of power because they will misuse it is tantamount to saying the police should not be given guns since they are likely to shoot innocent civilians! It's all a matter of implementing proper laws and proper ethics on the Government's side.*

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?) *- I agree. On the political aspect of it,having 210 members of parliament to decide on anything will simply extend the time taken but won't necessarily stop something that has been rejected by the masses. As we have seen in the past,parliament does not choose what is best for the citizens but what is best for the members' survival,it all depends on political affiliations of the member moving the motion and those seeking to support or reject it. We have also seen how the promises of financial heavens can sway the opinions of the most sober-minded M.Ps! One more shocker, most of the politicians in the U.S who were in support of SOPA/PIPA did not have in-depth knowledge of how these laws would be implemented and their effects on the citizens. How much worse would it be in Kenya where ignorance is more prevalent?*

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .

On 21 March 2012 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote

...

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip

mmmhhh...I think a better question to ask is whether you want the Government or Regulator to have this type of legal backing. Wearing my security hat, I can tell you for free that national cyber-security initiatives can never be effective using a "one-stakeholder, do it as I say" approach...(unless u are in China and related cousins like North Korea)

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .

walu.

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens? To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 5:07 PM

To the best of my understanding,the story makes perfect sense! The government wants to implement N.E.W.S and ITU is helping it. One of ITU's objective is "To improve telecommunication infrastructure in the developing world and to establish worldwide standards". If part of "worldwide standards" is using telecommunications infrastructure to safeguard the security and interests of a country,they are the correct people to help in this. Moreover,seeing as ITU is part of the U.N,I would argue that they have the financial and technical might needed to do this. The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this.

On 21 March 2012 09:03, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

Moses,

The reason i called it misinformation is that the acting DG was on the media when the deal was being signed , unless i was watching Al Kajiado TV and i never heard anything like this, furthermore last year we had a Cyber Security Workshop hosted by CCK where all those issues were explained but i dont recall seeing brethren from the fourth estate, that is why i proposed that they should do more research, imho this kind of reporting can defeat the war on Cybersecurity since the people are an integral part of the Cyberworld.

On 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=mouzmuyer@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

I wouldn't be quick to call this 'misinformation'. Such systems have been deployed the world over,even by the biggest democracies! It all depends on the Government's objectives for doing this - they could go the U.S.A way and crack down on terrorism or they could go the China way and use it to oppress us!

On 21 March 2012 08:27, Barrack Otieno

<otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

...

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list

Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke<http://mc/compose?to=Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>

...

...

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-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

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-- Kind Regards,

Moses Muya.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40ya hoo.co.uk The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote

...

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip

[snip]

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)

@Walu, We'd be electronically safer, yes. We are sniffing "Internet" and "internet" traffic. "Internet" here stands for Kenya<->Worldwide traffic while "internet" stands for Kenya<->Kenya (can be via KIXP of just within the operators network) traffic. For all intents and purposes, I believe the system is not supposed extend beyond those two scenarios, like sniffing traffic within a bank's system. You pushed it beyond the mandate of CCK by introducing traffic within RFC1918 confines. I believe the gadget applies only to those organizations which offer cyberspace based services to the public.

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)

This is not an issue. Even before the introduction of the gadget, I believe the govt has a way of asking an provider licensed under CCK to shut down their services, in the guise of national security, or be forced shut! You remember KTN case and the "if you rattle a snake"? God forbid we don't have such level of dictatorship in KE.

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)

Let ms also go ahead and say that you seem to have made a great assumption on that. It's not possible that only one (wo)man is going to be in charge of these gadgets. The security agencies are mostl likely the ones who are going to be going over the data collected with a toothcomb and magnifying glass, but remember there is a Police Oversight Authority and the Parliamentary Committee on Security who hold sway over the security agencies... I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally.

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .

Hehe... I think you presented an Academic paper, Walu. We have a new constitution which gives the people a lot more power than Moi ever imagined, lest you forget :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

@Harry, On this I would like to disagree. Our oversight bodies can (and should) boost their capacity to understand and guide by including people like Washington, Walu, McTim and others so that we can have a higher level of confidence. I think that is the direction and thrust in which this debate and this group should be aiming. Engage with government and offer expertise - let us be part of the solution, or even the entire solution! Brian On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>wrote:

@Wash,****

** **

Quite an assessment you got, this..****

** **

However, thisà “ *I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally*”, might****

not be practically enforceable by oversight bodies, based on one premise:- That they haven’t got any scant idea whatsoever on how the ****

underlying technology will work. You can expect this to also be treated as a national security secret, since hackivists/other rogue elements****

can use such info to strike if placed in the public domain.****

** **

I suppose, what we might need is to learn what the yet-to-be-delivered “Great Firewall” can do and not do. For instance, if it’s capabilities****

among others comprise ability to shutdown internet, censorship, or other such loopholes as industrial(read business), political espionage,****

then we have need to sound out/lobby (law makers perhaps), to toughen up laws against such blatant abuse..****

** **

Regards,****

Harry****

** **

** **

*From:* kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Odhiambo Washington *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:26 AM *To:* harry@comtelsys.co.ke

*Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security?****

** **

** **

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:****

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote

...

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip****

** **

[snip] ****

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)****

@Walu,

We'd be electronically safer, yes. We are sniffing "Internet" and "internet" traffic. "Internet" here stands for Kenya<->Worldwide traffic while "internet" stands for Kenya<->Kenya (can be via KIXP of just within the operators network) traffic. For all intents and purposes, I believe the system is not supposed extend beyond those two scenarios, like sniffing traffic within a bank's system. You pushed it beyond the mandate of CCK by introducing traffic within RFC1918 confines. I believe the gadget applies only to those organizations which offer cyberspace based services to the public. ****

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)****

This is not an issue. Even before the introduction of the gadget, I believe the govt has a way of asking an provider licensed under CCK to shut down their services, in the guise of national security, or be forced shut! You remember KTN case and the "if you rattle a snake"? God forbid we don't have such level of dictatorship in KE. ****

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)****

Let ms also go ahead and say that you seem to have made a great assumption on that. It's not possible that only one (wo)man is going to be in charge of these gadgets. The security agencies are mostl likely the ones who are going to be going over the data collected with a toothcomb and magnifying glass, but remember there is a Police Oversight Authority and the Parliamentary Committee on Security who hold sway over the security agencies... I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally.

****

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .****

Hehe... I think you presented an Academic paper, Walu. We have a new constitution which gives the people a lot more power than Moi ever imagined, lest you forget :-)****

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ****

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: +254715964281 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com "Give us clear vision that we may know where to stand and what to stand for, because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything."

@Edwin, Do you have any idea how the NSIS, for instance, does their work? Some of the ways they use, like the CIA, might sound unethical, but not necessarily unconstitutional. Actually, I don't see what is unconstitutional in this act of policing Cyberspace. If you don't stop Al Qaeda before they bomb their next target, and if you do by means of cyber policing, which of those two do you vote for? On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:41, Edwin Onchari <eonchari@lynxbits.com> wrote:

Just curious like many in this list are- how come no one from CCK or our esteemed usually vocal GoK officials on this list not made any comments on this at all? I have this unsettling gut feeling that this has been operational for a while now, which then makes it outright unconstitutional!! ****

** **

Edwin****

*From:* kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Harry Delano *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:01 AM *To:* Edwin

*Cc:* 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security?****

** **

@Wash,****

** **

Quite an assessment you got, this..****

** **

However, thisà “ *I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally*”, might****

not be practically enforceable by oversight bodies, based on one premise:- That they haven’t got any scant idea whatsoever on how the ****

underlying technology will work. You can expect this to also be treated as a national security secret, since hackivists/other rogue elements****

can use such info to strike if placed in the public domain.****

** **

I suppose, what we might need is to learn what the yet-to-be-delivered “Great Firewall” can do and not do. For instance, if it’s capabilities****

among others comprise ability to shutdown internet, censorship, or other such loopholes as industrial(read business), political espionage,****

then we have need to sound out/lobby (law makers perhaps), to toughen up laws against such blatant abuse..****

** **

Regards,****

Harry****

** **

** **

*From:* kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Odhiambo Washington *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:26 AM *To:* harry@comtelsys.co.ke *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security?****

** **

** **

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:****

--- On *Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com>* wrote

...

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip****

** **

[snip] ****

Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)****

@Walu,

We'd be electronically safer, yes. We are sniffing "Internet" and "internet" traffic. "Internet" here stands for Kenya<->Worldwide traffic while "internet" stands for Kenya<->Kenya (can be via KIXP of just within the operators network) traffic. For all intents and purposes, I believe the system is not supposed extend beyond those two scenarios, like sniffing traffic within a bank's system. You pushed it beyond the mandate of CCK by introducing traffic within RFC1918 confines. I believe the gadget applies only to those organizations which offer cyberspace based services to the public. ****

A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)****

This is not an issue. Even before the introduction of the gadget, I believe the govt has a way of asking an provider licensed under CCK to shut down their services, in the guise of national security, or be forced shut! You remember KTN case and the "if you rattle a snake"? God forbid we don't have such level of dictatorship in KE. ****

Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)****

Let ms also go ahead and say that you seem to have made a great assumption on that. It's not possible that only one (wo)man is going to be in charge of these gadgets. The security agencies are mostl likely the ones who are going to be going over the data collected with a toothcomb and magnifying glass, but remember there is a Police Oversight Authority and the Parliamentary Committee on Security who hold sway over the security agencies... I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally.

****

If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .****

Hehe... I think you presented an Academic paper, Walu. We have a new constitution which gives the people a lot more power than Moi ever imagined, lest you forget :-)****

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. **** ------------------------------

No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12* ***

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

It is now official, the clamp down is on officially Best Regards, Edwin -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of otieno.barrack@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:35 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? While seconding Wash, technology is always ahead of the law or policy environment, what if mpesa had waited for the law, would it be a global phenomena? Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+otieno.barrack=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:49:40 To: <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail. com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eonchari%40lynxbits.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12

@ Harry, For their sake, I hope so too; because if they have actually gone ahead and unilaterally rolled this out without any legal/constitutional framework, will be tantamount to blatantly abusing the rights of Kenyans and straight-up abusing of their offices! Hon. AG, I hope you are listening and advising your client Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Delano Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:56 AM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? @Edwin, Had a similar “numb” feeling... But perhaps, CCK are putting up their statement together, then they will address the forum & other stakeholders. Would be really a great start, to take the debate forward since presently we seem to be groping around in the dark. @Mblayo – Agreed.. Harry From: Edwin Onchari [mailto:eonchari@lynxbits.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:41 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: RE: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? Just curious like many in this list are- how come no one from CCK or our esteemed usually vocal GoK officials on this list not made any comments on this at all? I have this unsettling gut feeling that this has been operational for a while now, which then makes it outright unconstitutional!! Edwin From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Delano Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:01 AM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? @Wash, Quite an assessment you got, this.. However, thisà “ I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally”, might not be practically enforceable by oversight bodies, based on one premise:- That they haven’t got any scant idea whatsoever on how the underlying technology will work. You can expect this to also be treated as a national security secret, since hackivists/other rogue elements can use such info to strike if placed in the public domain. I suppose, what we might need is to learn what the yet-to-be-delivered “Great Firewall” can do and not do. For instance, if it’s capabilities among others comprise ability to shutdown internet, censorship, or other such loopholes as industrial(read business), political espionage, then we have need to sound out/lobby (law makers perhaps), to toughen up laws against such blatant abuse.. Regards, Harry From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Odhiambo Washington Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:26 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security? On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 18:49, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: --- On Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote

snip The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this. snip

[snip] Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...) @Walu, We'd be electronically safer, yes. We are sniffing "Internet" and "internet" traffic. "Internet" here stands for Kenya<->Worldwide traffic while "internet" stands for Kenya<->Kenya (can be via KIXP of just within the operators network) traffic. For all intents and purposes, I believe the system is not supposed extend beyond those two scenarios, like sniffing traffic within a bank's system. You pushed it beyond the mandate of CCK by introducing traffic within RFC1918 confines. I believe the gadget applies only to those organizations which offer cyberspace based services to the public. A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress) This is not an issue. Even before the introduction of the gadget, I believe the govt has a way of asking an provider licensed under CCK to shut down their services, in the guise of national security, or be forced shut! You remember KTN case and the "if you rattle a snake"? God forbid we don't have such level of dictatorship in KE. Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?) Let ms also go ahead and say that you seem to have made a great assumption on that. It's not possible that only one (wo)man is going to be in charge of these gadgets. The security agencies are mostl likely the ones who are going to be going over the data collected with a toothcomb and magnifying glass, but remember there is a Police Oversight Authority and the Parliamentary Committee on Security who hold sway over the security agencies... I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally. If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) . Hehe... I think you presented an Academic paper, Walu. We have a new constitution which gives the people a lot more power than Moi ever imagined, lest you forget :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12

David, It is good you are on board i beleive the correct position will be given by CCK since they also represent us in the ITU and i hope Mr. Mutua who is somewhere on the list is following the debate all i have is the street version as an interested stakeholder. Late last year we had this conference on Cyber Security organised by CCK in collaboration with the George Mason University one of the issues being discussed was this animal called Kenya Computer Emergency Response Centre aka KCERT. To the best of my understanding this is a national focal point that collects and collates data on impending Cyber Security attacks and works in collaboration with Sectoral CIRTS hosted by ISP's IXP's and other regulators. In that Conference we had guys from Police, Military, banking Sector, IXP's and the others (i mean the common man : where i belong). On doing further research i discovered that ITU is doing something similar on a global basis to counter global CyberSecurity hence this collaboration with our regulator which i saw on TV a couple of weeks back. As for the rest CCK will speak for itself since i havent seen any message on my mpesa line :-) On 3/21/12, Sound Africa Ltd <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

For my informaion, what is the correct position?

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+dmakali=yahoo.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:27:19 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: ke-users<ke-internetusers@bdix.net>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens?

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

David, lest we mix issues this has got nothing to do with spectrum allocation but Cyber Security, unless I am refering to the wrong press release. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: David Makali <dmakali@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:57:42 To: Barrack Otieno<otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Reply-To: David Makali <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: kictanet-bounces+dmakali=yahoo.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+dmakali=yahoo.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; ke-users<ke-internetusers@bdix.net>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? Barrack, what was your interpretation of the press release by cck last week?   _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 ________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: dmakali@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet-bounces+dmakali=yahoo.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke; ke-users <ke-internetusers@bdix.net>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? David, It is good you are on board i beleive the correct position will be given by CCK since they also represent us in the ITU and i hope Mr. Mutua who is somewhere on the list is following the debate all i have is the street version as an interested stakeholder. Late last year we had this conference on Cyber Security organised by CCK in collaboration with the George Mason University one of the issues being discussed was this animal called Kenya Computer Emergency Response Centre aka KCERT. To the best of my understanding this is a national focal point that collects and collates data on impending Cyber Security attacks and works in collaboration with Sectoral CIRTS hosted by ISP's IXP's and other regulators. In that Conference we had guys from Police, Military, banking Sector, IXP's and the others (i mean the common man : where i belong). On doing further research i discovered that ITU is doing something similar on a global basis to counter global CyberSecurity hence this collaboration with our regulator which i saw on TV a couple of weeks back. As for the rest CCK will speak for itself since i havent seen any message on my mpesa line  :-) On 3/21/12, Sound Africa Ltd <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

For my informaion, what is the correct position?

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+dmakali=yahoo.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:27:19 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: ke-users<ke-internetusers@bdix.net>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens?

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

sometimes i think, for all its flaws, we have to be thankful sometimes for the media. its our eyes.   _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 ________________________________ From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> To: dmakali@yahoo.com Cc: ke-internetusers@bdix.net; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? Barrack Here is the full story as carried by business daily. It may not be misinformation after all. CCK sparks row with fresh bid to spy on Internet users http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate+News/CCK+sparks+row+with+fresh+...   Rgds GG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World!

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:27:19 +0300 From: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Subject: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? CC: ke-internetusers@bdix.net; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

GG, I still feel this is sensationalism and not objective at all, recently there was hue and cry when the 101 .go.ke websites were hacked and I raised this point that we turn a blind eye to efforts being made locally and shout when problems occur, if you saw the reactions on social media you would agree with the point I am raising the perception out there is not the reality, having been involved in several initiatives dealing with Cybersecurity issues I can attest to the fact that there is resistance and one of the efforts we have been making is to create awareness with the right kind of information, I suppose the media has a moral obligation to do the same, I know our perceptions may be different but let's debate objectively. This article raises pertinent issues which we must embrace as a sector but what was posted on social media did not. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:42:54 To: <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: <ke-internetusers@bdix.net>; <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? Barrack Here is the full story as carried by business daily. It may not be misinformation after all. CCK sparks row with fresh bid to spy on Internet users http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate+News/CCK+sparks+row+with+fresh+... RgdsGG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have the strength to survive, you have the power to succeed. Life is all about choices we make depending upon the situation we are in. Go forth and rule the World!

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:27:19 +0300 From: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Subject: [kictanet] Media Misleading Citizens? CC: ke-internetusers@bdix.net; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com

Listers,

I just saw this on the wall of a popular media house and i am appalled by the misinformation, why can't our dear journalists do more research before publishing info, i see why Prof Nyong'o was so agitated during the Interview on Citizen TV, this is really dangerous? below is the text..

The Communications Commission of Kenya could have access to your personal internet content by July this year, if a plan they have set in motion succeeds. The CCK has signed a 32.6 million shilling deal with the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to install a system that will monitor all incoming and outgoing internet content in Kenya, and has already requested local internet service providers and telecommunications institutions to install it.

Do you think this is right?

Hope the concerned will react on time.

-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

On 3/21/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:

Barrack,

IMHO, the perception does not really matter. You are not trying to suggest that the reporter should have coated the bitter reality with a bit of sugar to make it palatable. Forget what people's perception & reaction would be. Look at whether it is legal, and most importantly if it makes sense.

But what if it is illegal, does it still make sense then? I

should believe that any Kenyan is free to challenge the process in court if they feel it violates their privacy as would have been defined in the statutes. If they feel Twitter and FaceBook is their way of redress, let it be:-) The objective is more important, if you ask me. It's simple. If anyone plays against the norms/rules, there must be a way of finding them and dealing with them. You see, Police gun down armed thugs every other day, which I believe is worse, but that's the surest way of handling the scenario. So is sniffing the surest way of apprehending cyber offenders. CIA does it, FBI does it, Kenya Police must do it. Because there isn't another way.

examining logs is one other way -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 19:14, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

On 3/21/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Barrack,

IMHO, the perception does not really matter. You are not trying to suggest that the reporter should have coated the bitter reality with a bit of sugar to make it palatable. Forget what people's perception & reaction would be. Look at whether it is legal, and most importantly if it makes sense.

But what if it is illegal, does it still make sense then?

Well, you challenge it in court. The thing is, there is no easy way for a particular individual to go and challenge this if they don't have proof of what is being done and how it affects them directly. However, I suppose by the time you have all the clues that it affects you directly, assuming thy have come after you, the evidence itself would have put you on the wrong side of everything:)

I

...

should believe that any Kenyan is free to challenge the process in court if they feel it violates their privacy as would have been defined in the statutes. If they feel Twitter and FaceBook is their way of redress, let it be:-) The objective is more important, if you ask me. It's simple. If anyone plays against the norms/rules, there must be a way of finding them and dealing with them. You see, Police gun down armed thugs every other day, which I believe is worse, but that's the surest way of handling the scenario. So is sniffing the surest way of apprehending cyber offenders. CIA does it, FBI does it, Kenya Police must do it. Because there isn't another way.

examining logs is one other way

Examining logs - I don't know what their equipment is capable of, but the last time I checked, logs did not contain the content, like email content. They'd provides clues though. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.