On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Hello listers, The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community. My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ. Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
Hi Moses, It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that. The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way. Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen. I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric. Regards On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
Send kictanet mailing list submissions to kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
You can reach the person managing the list at kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno
Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation. The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights. While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows: “A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.” @Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process. Regards, 2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about
cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow
LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept
overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: the the them that
safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F < https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today! On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>>:
Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about
cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow
LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept
overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as
safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke');> wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mildandred@gmail.com');>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kensimiyu@gmail.com');>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content
whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kensimiyu@gmail.com');> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kensimiyu@gmail.com');>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');> <mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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bandwidth,
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kensimiyu@gmail.com');>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');> <mailto: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> wrote: the the them that producer precedents precedents precedents precedents
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
On legality, it is pertinent to mention that slavery was once legal and widely accepted in Western society. So was discrimination against people of black origins. Locally, it was widely accepted and in some parts of society, it still is acceptable for a woman's sexuality to be policed and controlled by others. We may not like what homosexuals do, but it is wrong to go into their lives to try dictate how they should be like the rest of us. A Ugandan refugee was recently murdered in Kenya. https://sebaspace.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/an-lgbt-death-in-kenya-to-wake-up... "Moral" signals from state bodies like KFCB go a long way in reinforcing that persecution of such people is totally okay. Perhaps the question is, is it ethical? On Wednesday, 24 February 2016, Mildred Achoch via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke');>> wrote:
Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content
whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com
< https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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< https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kensimiyu%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are
here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: producer precedents precedents platform privacy, do platform privacy, do precedents precedents platform privacy, do platform privacy, do
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
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I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again. What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc). In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine. Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-) walu. From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today! On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation. The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights. While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows: “A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.” @Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process. Regards, 2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>: Hi Moses, It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that. The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way. Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen. I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric. Regards On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F -- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony. As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes. Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.
What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).
In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.
Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)
walu.
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/ <http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/>. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>: Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://6815998D-D848-44B6-A72E-726DED68EB6D>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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@Mose, We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember? Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design. Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples. ...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-) Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong. Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers. walu. From: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony. As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes. Moses. On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote: I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again. What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc). In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine. Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-) walu. From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today! On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation. The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights. While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows: “A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.” @Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process. Regards, 2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>: Hi Moses, It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that. The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way. Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen. I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric. Regards On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F -- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja | PGP: 0x1529552F
This is interesting even to KICTANet because the Internet is already the new frontier for Human Rights contestations. However, seeing as the list is quite diverse, let me buy you coffee anytime we take this discussion further. Cheers!
On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@Mose,
We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember?
Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design.
Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples.
...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-)
Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers.
walu.
From: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony.
As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:
I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.
What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).
In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.
Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)
walu.
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <mailto:mildandred@gmail.com>>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com <mailto:mosekaranja@gmail.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/ <http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/>. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>: Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> wrote:
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1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Walu, IMHO the greatest Human Right is love your neighbor as you love your self, the rest are derivatives that can be interpreted diversely. Sorry Mose but i take sides with His Excellency the President on this matter when he stood beside POTUS at State House Nairobi. Regards On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is interesting even to KICTANet because the Internet is already the new frontier for Human Rights contestations. However, seeing as the list is quite diverse, let me buy you coffee anytime we take this discussion further.
Cheers!
On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@Mose,
We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember?
Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design.
Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples.
...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-)
Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers.
walu.
From: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony.
As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:
I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.
What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).
In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.
Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)
walu.
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <mailto:mildandred@gmail.com>>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com <mailto:mosekaranja@gmail.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/ <http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/>. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>: Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/> <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
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Barrack, I agree that taking the "non-issue" approach on the now popular video would have served all better. Tarehe 24 Feb 2016 18:18, "Barrack Otieno via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> aliandika:
Walu,
IMHO the greatest Human Right is love your neighbor as you love your self, the rest are derivatives that can be interpreted diversely. Sorry Mose but i take sides with His Excellency the President on this matter when he stood beside POTUS at State House Nairobi.
Regards
This is interesting even to KICTANet because the Internet is already the new frontier for Human Rights contestations. However, seeing as the list is quite diverse, let me buy you coffee anytime we take this discussion further.
Cheers!
On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
@Mose,
We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember?
Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design.
Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples.
...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-)
Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers.
walu.
From: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony.
As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com>> wrote:
I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.
What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).
In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.
Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)
walu.
From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com <mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <mailto:mildandred@gmail.com ; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com <mailto:mosekaranja@gmail.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/ <http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/>. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>: Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and
who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they
with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video
Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video
Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
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From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video
Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/> <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/ <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video
Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1> <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <applewebdata://F8418D6E-A20A-4C50-BC37-3E231139DDE1>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
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On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: those live - - privacy, privacy, - - privacy, privacy,
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respect
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
We loose sobriety in the argument when we bring religion to the fore. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
@Walu, yes! Let the debate focus on ICTs. RgdsGrace Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:50:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: jwalu@yahoo.com; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com @Mose, We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember? Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design. Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples. ...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-) Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong. Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers. walu. From: Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> To: Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony. As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes. Moses. On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)walu. From: Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com>; Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation. The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights. While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process. Regards, 2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:Hi Moses, It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that. The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way. Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen. I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric. Regards On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about the cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow the LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept them overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as that safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html>index.html <http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a-week-to-take-down-gay-song-video/-/539550/3089994/-/v8r0e2z/-/index.html> It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi KenyaSkype: gracebomuTwitter: @Bomu<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>PGP ID : 0x33A3450F -- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com____________________________... mailing listkictanet@lists.kictanet.or.kehttps://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanetUnsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.comThe Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. ---Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja | PGP: 0x1529552F _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This blog post may be of interest to this discussion: The Internet that enables human rights won't continue by accident <https://teamsammut.com/blog/2015/07/the-rights-enabling-internet-wont-continue-by-accident.html> https://teamsammut.com/blog/2015/07/the-rights-enabling-internet-wont-contin... Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Walu, yes! Let the debate focus on ICTs.
Rgds Grace
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:50:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: jwalu@yahoo.com; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
@Mose,
We ALL have the SAME divine references. This is what makes us human, remember?
Different cultures, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, African Traditionalist and even Atheists agree to the presence of a supreme being who inscribes what is right and what is wrong in your conscience. It doesnt matter how many times one may want to 'erase' their conscience, human beings ALL know what is right what is wrong - by design.
Actually there is a whole science behind all these..Its called Theology. One can actually logically to prove that what is right and what is wrong is universal. But sometimes we do not need any science..we just need examples.
...Theft is wrong - no matter how raw/immature, sophisticated or advanced your culture may purport to be. Even in post-Christian Europe of today, they still do not encourage stealing...though they encourage everything else in the name of freedoms/human rights etc :-)
Anyway I digress, but my point is that the Fundamental Truth does not vary according to cultures, because it was written in your heart/soul/spirit/being in the beginning. You can ran away from it (through passing man-made laws, fashion, peer pressure, etc), but deep down your mind, it will always speak to you and nag you about what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, we may need a cup of coffee on this debate...because it may go out of ICTs and I risk spamming Listers.
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> *To:* Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] On Homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Walu, With all due respect to the divine references, I think what is right cannot be defined by what is ‘divine’ on so many levels top of them being that we have no common divine to ensure harmony.
As Grace observed, when consensus eludes us, we refer back to the Constitution (through the Judiciary or such). The Kenyan Constitution is very clear; there is no State religion. On this matter therefore, the constitution is supreme. In reality though, cultural regimes dominate. That is where the challenge is and if the tool that is the Internet is to deliver the human rights and equality promise, then we ought to work on the repressive cultural regimes.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
I had a tweef (twitter fight) on this one. I concluded and do so here again.
What is legal is not always right (think Prostitution? Abortion?) . Additionally, what is deemed illegal could infact be right (think Mau mau, Nelson Mandela aparthied struggle?, etc).
In short the question of being legal/illegal is man-made, what you and me (actually our not so reliable MPs) decide. However being Right/Wrong is divine.
Sometimes the legal and divine are on the same page. Occassionally they are not. At that point its your individual choice to side with either man-made laws or divine laws. Mutua may have sided with the divine. He may not succeed, but we pay him to try :-)
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* Mildred Achoch via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com>; Mose Karanja < mosekaranja@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:01 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] On homosexuality and Information Controls: Laws and Culture
Thank you Moses, Grace et al. I have learned a lot today!
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Moses, thank you for reminding us of our duty towards a more inclusive society. KFCB "banned" the song as "homosexuality is illegal". Infact, the proximate videos on YouTube have (non homosexual) content that many Kenyan parents would rate "after high school age" but these are not a target of the ban. The video is opportune as it forces us to start this conversation.
The legality of homosexuality is a question that has already been before the courts in Petition No 440 of 2012 available here http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/108412/. In this case, the government had declined to register an organisation for gay rights and the organisation went to court seeking to protect their rights.
While interpreting sections 162, 163 and 165 of the Penal Code, the court held as follows:
“A reading of the above provisions indicates that the Penal Code does not criminalise homosexuality, or the state of being homosexual, but only certain sexual acts“against the order of nature.”. That the State does not set out to prosecute people who confess to be lesbians and homosexuals in this country is a clear manifestation that such sexual orientation is not necessarily criminalised. What is deemed to be criminal under the above provision of the Penal Code is certain sexual conduct “against the order of nature”, but the provision does not define what the “order of nature” is.”
@Mildred, on your second question, I would hold that if we want to police content where there is no consensus on the illegality of the content, let it be through a judicial process.
Regards,
2016-02-24 14:13 GMT+03:00 Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
Hi Moses,
It goes back to our value systems as a Nation, what is considered moral offline should be considered moral online and vice versa. I think the mandate of the Kenya Film Classification Board is very clear and is based on our constitution and should be debated against that.
The Internet is just a tool even though we try to ascribe a lot of fanciness to it, it can be used to build or to destroy communities and nations. It is upon us to decide whether we want to hide under philosophical arguments or strengthen the value systems in our society which will in turn strengthen the very society we live in, we cannot hide our heads in the sand and accept everything that comes our way.
Over the weekend my car was hit while stationary in a traffic jam by a Matatu being driven by 'cool' young men. They bullied me to make way for their vehicle since they were in a hurry, the worst part is they never stopped to apologize even after damaging my car, fellow Kenyans on the road found this unacceptable and asked me to pursue the young men and have a word with them, i succeed in blocking them and found myself in a situation i did not anticipate. The driver was a childhood friend totally intoxicated and indulging in the same drug abuse as he was driving carrying 33 passengers, i will not even talk about the blaring music whose content we are all aware of. To make it worse the drove through two police checks with approximately seven policemen.
I suppose that is the Kenya we want, but we need to pose and reflect on our Social Fabric.
Regards
Hello listers,
The Internet has been a great platform for sexual minorities and those who work to defend their rights for organization, support groups and as safe haven from hostile offline environments. The video clip in question was uploaded, not sold on the streets of Nairobi, in part because the Internet is a safer platform for the LGBTQ community.
My thinking on this is not even a question of legality but rather about
cultural expectations we have in our country on this topic. If tomorrow
LGBTQ community successfully lodged a constitutional case on the illegality of the clauses incriminating their very identity, the people they live with in their neighbourhoods, schools, churches and mosques would not accept
overnight. It will take time and immense effort to build a critical mass who take our brothers and sisters who are sexual minorities as human beings. As human rights defenders, out role should then be to keep the Internet as
On 2/24/16, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: the the them that
safe haven for the LGBTQ.
Moses.
On Feb 24, 2016, at 12:23 PM, kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..." Today's Topics:
1. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (Mildred Achoch) 2. Re: Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News (simiyu mse)
From: Mildred Achoch <mildandred@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 11:59:52 AM EAT To: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hi Ken,
Let me ask some questions in an attempt to answer your question (and at the risk of opening a can of worms)
1. Note: I don't know the details of the laws regarding homosexuality in Kenya. My question is: in Kenya, is it illegal to practice homosexuality or is it illegal to BE a homosexual?
2. Related to the above question, as an artist/creative/content producer whose role in society is to hold up a mirror using my art, is it illegal to portray what is already happening in society? Crime is illegal yet Nairobi Halflife was not banned. :-)
It goes back to the muddy issue of morality. It seems in Kenya, some crimes are deemed more hazardous than others and these skewed views trickle down to censorship parameters.
The issue of obeying the laws of the land is also muddy, especially in this age of globalization. Is my online TV channel, which is available only on the Internet, hosted by a foreign country and with majority of viewers being non-Kenyans, subject to the laws of Kenya (only)?
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com <mailto:kensimiyu@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
From: simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Films board gives Google a week to take down gay song video - Corporate News Date: February 24, 2016 at 9:31:54 AM EAT To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Hello Mildred.
Excellent points and just as you said, if you support the infringement of one's right then its only a matter of time before the axe is trained on yours.
However, there is the element of promoting something that is illegal. Homosexuality is currently illegal in the country. The morality angle may be abit vague based on it's subjective nature but in terms of legality it is as clear as night and day.
Whats your take on the matter being an online media stakeholder?
Kind regards.
./ken
The major problem is that there is no clear line as to what "morality" is. Each individual, each government has their take on what is moral. So who's right is it to say what is right and what is wrong? I do my best to support the freedom of even those whose opinions I do not agree with. Because when someone else's freedom is infringed upon then it's just a matter of time before my freedom is also infringed upon.
My very personal and biased answers to the questions asked:
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
In one word: yes. On the internet, the individual has more freedom to "switch off" what they don't want to view. Plus there are ways in which content providers can place restrictions so that minors etc cannot have access to controversial content. This is very personal to me because I currently have an online TV channel that shows content (rock music videos) that would normally not be shown on Kenyan TV.
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
In one word: no. The answer to this question is in the question :-) Parents/Caregivers need to do their duty.
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I have never watched nor plan to ever watch graphic Al-Shabaab videos but I still don't think they should have been taken down. Censorship is censorship. Today it will be graphic Al-Shabaab videos, tomorrow it will be "graphic" rock 'n' roll videos. Even graphic videos have a story to tell, a lesson to teach, a warning to give.
Just my two cents :-)
Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com <http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com/>
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Listers
This may be of interest.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
< http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a... index.html < http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Films-board-gives-Google-a...
It has become increasingly important for we as a nation to define our parameters when it comes to content.
1. Should we allow content online that we wouldn't even think about showing in our sitting rooms and public places?
2. Should the government be the morality cop when we as parents fail to do our duty?
3. Where does third party liability start and stop? There are precedents here by the way where Google has actually taken down graphic Al-Shabaab videos and the US Government ordering Google to take down the video - Innocence of Muslims.
I suspect there's no easy answer to these pressing issues.
Net Neutrality is becoming an issue that needs our attention - and quickly.
Ali Hussein Tel: +254 713 601113
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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-- Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel! http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
This debate takes us back to the debate we had on banning content contained in Netflix, and we asked why not ban Youtube and similar website? Well, it seems KFCB was listening. They have gone to YouTube. Now, I have done a very small unsolicited desktop research. I went to Alexa to see the top 100 most visited websites in Kenya. http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries;1/KE Of course I was expecting University websites, Library and research websites to lead the table. After all, Kenya is ranked as among the most research and innovation oriented countries in Africa. Shock on me. At Number 38 is xvideos, 64 is pornhub, 76 is bongacams. From those name alone, you can guess the content in the websites. I guess in some of the videos,the actors will not only be advocating for LGBT rights, they will be showcasing the acts that are "forbidden" by "us". There are many such websites with content that makes KFCB have sleepless nights. But who shall regulate the internet? These websites are very popular video sharing websites. and a big chunk of their content will not please KFCB. What is KFCB going to do about them? By the way, we have been complaining about the cost of Internet. Where do people get all the bandwidth? Please sambaza some to me. -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
Mwendwa, Thank you for the alexa research. Just to ask a direct question, do you in your professional capacity acknowledge that LGBTQ rights are human rights? That is a good place to start this conversation so we know where were are situated on this. Moses. KICTANet brings together people who are active on the promotion of technology in Kenya (and beyond). The enabling power of the Internet especially cannot happen if the vanguard of tech policy in Kenya
On Feb 24, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
This debate takes us back to the debate we had on banning content contained in Netflix, and we asked why not ban Youtube and similar website? Well, it seems KFCB was listening. They have gone to YouTube.
Now, I have done a very small unsolicited desktop research. I went to Alexa to see the top 100 most visited websites in Kenya. http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries;1/KE
Of course I was expecting University websites, Library and research websites to lead the table. After all, Kenya is ranked as among the most research and innovation oriented countries in Africa. Shock on me.
At Number 38 is xvideos, 64 is pornhub, 76 is bongacams. From those name alone, you can guess the content in the websites. I guess in some of the videos,the actors will not only be advocating for LGBT rights, they will be showcasing the acts that are "forbidden" by "us". There are many such websites with content that makes KFCB have sleepless nights. But who shall regulate the internet?
These websites are very popular video sharing websites. and a big chunk of their content will not please KFCB. What is KFCB going to do about them?
By the way, we have been complaining about the cost of Internet. Where do people get all the bandwidth? Please sambaza some to me.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
--- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
participants (8)
-
Barrack Otieno -
Dennis Kioko -
Grace Githaiga -
Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) -
Mildred Achoch -
Mose Karanja -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Walubengo J