Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Standard Digital News : State warned on ditching copyrighted software
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont. You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years. Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there? The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers. Evans Ikua On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
Carefully read what I said Evans. I have not said either has more value than the other. What I am agains is both sides - open and closed - peddling FUD about the other and we are yet to resolve basic issues. Why must it be exclusively one or the other? I'm very sure opportunities exist for everyone. My day to day machine is a Mac. In which I run a windows and a Linux virtual machine. Each of which does a fantastic job serving my many requirements. I feel pretty sure this is the best solution to our problems - pragmatism On Monday, September 17, 2012, Evans Ikua wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe<
*---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
+1 Rad. think also about free to air TV and other options. To each their own. On 17 September 2012 12:07, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Carefully read what I said Evans. I have not said either has more value than the other.
What I am agains is both sides - open and closed - peddling FUD about the other and we are yet to resolve basic issues.
Why must it be exclusively one or the other? I'm very sure opportunities exist for everyone.
My day to day machine is a Mac. In which I run a windows and a Linux virtual machine. Each of which does a fantastic job serving my many requirements.
I feel pretty sure this is the best solution to our problems - pragmatism On Monday, September 17, 2012, Evans Ikua wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe<
---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,
lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/francis.hook%40gmail.c...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Francis Hook +254 733 504561
Good people Allow me to jump in on this heated discussion. 1. Fact: IBM invests about $1 billion every year on open source software research and development. 2. Fact: Linux Servers have long become a credible competitor to their proprietary competitors. 3. Fact: The biggest open source projects are still executed by Big Blue (IBM) and her established competitors who are more likely to win these projects (read big government projects) because they have established, well tested and grounded processes and standardised proprietary tools. (the underlining and boldness is deliberate) Ladies/Gentlemen what I am trying to say is that it doesn't matter what software you are offering clients. What matters is that the solution works at a cost effective (we have now included ROI in the equation) way for the customer. Let's as service providers focus on satisfying the customer. I suspect if we do this the question of open or proprietary will be secondary. Ali Hussein +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 12:07 PM, "Rad!" <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Carefully read what I said Evans. I have not said either has more value than the other.
What I am agains is both sides - open and closed - peddling FUD about the other and we are yet to resolve basic issues.
Why must it be exclusively one or the other? I'm very sure opportunities exist for everyone.
My day to day machine is a Mac. In which I run a windows and a Linux virtual machine. Each of which does a fantastic job serving my many requirements.
I feel pretty sure this is the best solution to our problems - pragmatism On Monday, September 17, 2012, Evans Ikua wrote: Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote: All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote: issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote: Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe< ---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua, lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (4)
-
Ali Hussein -
Evans Ikua -
Francis Hook -
Rad!