New subject: [ke-internetusers] Kenya communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?

15 Dec 2008

Brian, Mike et al,

I agree the contentious section 88 has been around since time immemorial - but it may have a different connotation when applied to broadcast media rather than its orginal narrow scope of (voice) telecommunication as in the Kenya Communication Act of 1998.

My point is still that media needs to be controlled but I am still undecided on whether we are overdoing it -i.e. using an AK-47 or Bazuka to clear a mosquito. Unfortunately, the full digital version of the ICT Bill is still missing online.  Leading me to imagine that maybe existing Policy requires that we buy the hard-copy from the Government Printers - welcome to the tensions between e-Governance and m-Governance (m-for MANUAL not Mobile ;-).

walu.

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Brian Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Brian Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
> To: jwalu@yahoo.com
> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
> Mike,
> 
> I could not agree with you more. What we are witnessing is
> rabid calls for
> deletion of a legal clause that has been in existence since
> 1998, and isn't
> even part of the proposed amendments - without a proposed
> alternative.
> 
> It is abundantly clear that neither the media
> practitioners, neither the
> civil society pundits or politicos that are baying in the
> streets have
> really taken time to read through any of this legislation,
> nor consider
> suitable alternatives.
> 
> I personally think that this episode will serve as a lesson
> for many -
> knee-jerk, reactionary statements that are based on
> speculation and
> hyperbole can only lead to confusion and eventually
> embarassment.
> 
> I give a thumbs up to the likes of K24 who have taken a
> very neutral stand
> and chosen to air both sides of the story and work more
> towards
> enlightenment than further fuel the outright lies and
> misrepresentation that
> our airwaves have been awash with over the past few days.
> 
> Brian
> 
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Mike Theuri
> <mike.theuri@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Crystal,
> >
> > Actually, the right to assemble, discuss in public and
> protest was never
> > taken away by the Patriot act. Numerous protests and
> marches have taken
> > place over the Iraq war, Immigration etc since then
> and have been
> > widely covered. Indeed if one was pay a visit to the
> environs of the White
> > house, one will find no shortage of protesters
> demonstrating any number of
> > issues from Guantanamo by dressing in orange jump
> suits and locking
> > themselves in cages, Darfur,  Tibetans acting out
> torture methods, to
> > calling the current US administration fascist or for
> its removal as long as
> > they do not interfere with others freedoms by being
> disruptive. The
> > Patriot Act still stands to date, however a few of its
> provisions
> > have sunset and are no longer in law thanks to a
> refined legislative process
> > that pays attention to constituents views.
> >
> > The separation of powers principle is best exemplified
> in the US. The
> > Judiciary's independence is one that should be
> emulated in Kenya. The fact
> > that unconstitutional laws can be challenged and
> struck down by the courts
> > is itself a protection against the infringement of
> citizen and non-citizens
> > rights. Take for instance cases such as that of Bin
> Laden's driver (Hamdan
> > v. Rumsfeld) or the 5 Algerian Guantanamo detainees
> where the US
> > Government did not win in both cases. The fact that
> members of congress have
> > signaled their intent to restore habeus corpus rights
> to detainees is in
> > itself an indication of standing up for principle even
> when popular opinion
> > may not agree with some principles of basic human
> rights. There is a lot of
> > work and reform to be done locally, in ensuring that
> the different arms of
> > Government can be as independent and those who are
> aggrieved by the
> > legislature at least have an avenue of resort in which
> they can place their
> > confidence to fairly strike down what could be
> considered unconstitutional.
> >
> > At the same time excessive freedom and its abuse is
> dangerous, were Kenya
> > the US, elements of the media who engaged in
> deliberate acts at the
> > beginning of the year would be in court today being
> held civilly liable for
> > their role in inciting violence that led to the deaths
> of civilians. Media
> > elements that act recklessly and carry inappropriate
> content would be paying
> > hefty fines that could easily bankrupt them if they
> chose not change their
> > ways. Yet we find that even with such regulations, the
> US media has a level
> > of freedom that is not quite paralleled around the
> world. I believe it is
> > clear that the contentious section 88 has always been
> present, it is not
> > new, and thus the Government cannot possibly be trying
> to now use it to
> > suppress the people's voices. As with every system
> there need to be checks
> > and balances, the media has called for deletion, an
> approach that faces
> > legal hurdles, but the media has not been seen to come
> up with clear cut
> > alternatives such as amendments that could make it
> very difficult if not
> > impossible for section 88 to be abused, these are the
> checks the media could
> > be lobbying for placement in the memorandum. The media
> fraternity might not
> > be law makers but they could certainly spend amounts
> such as the Ksh. 2m
> > spent on advertising a prayer meeting to explain in
> layman terms what
> > *alternatives* as protections they want to be included
> in the bill. One way
> > or another there will be laws that deal with the
> media, a reality the media
> > should accept and work towards defining rather than
> wishing the inevitable
> > goes away.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Crystal Watley <
> > crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The Patriot Act was established in the United
> States in light of terrorist
> >> activities and the Iraqi war to silence any public
> discussion or protest.
> >> The US government was able to make a list of
> organizations and people they
> >> considered to be "terrorists" and to use
> a variety of means powers to
> >> contain those they believed to be "dangerous
> to US interests". This Act was
> >> used to arrest many peaceful protesters,
> environmental activists, and to
> >> detain Muslims without trial for extended period
> of time at places like
> >> Guantanamo Bay. Every democratic government must
> respect human rights. The
> >> Patriot Act was a time bound piece of legislature
> and it has thus lapsed.
> >> Democratic governments should not attempt to use
> legislation to suppress the
> >> voice of the people. Kenya is not the only country
> where a minority of the
> >> population with vested interests have attempted
> and have often succeeded to
> >> dominate and control the population. We should
> learn from the lessons of
> >> history, rather than repeat the same mistakes.
> >>
> >> Crystal
> >>
> >>   On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:35 PM,
> <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  David,
> >>> I thought this UK law would make our section
> 88 look like an evening game
> >>> of soccer.  From the Independent.
> >>>
> >>> 23 November 2003
> >>>
> >>> Sweeping measures to deal with terrorist
> attacks and other emergencies
> >>> are
> >>> to be announced this week, giving the
> Government power to over-ride civil
> >>> liberties in times of crisis, and evacuate
> threatened areas, restrict
> >>> people's movements and confiscate
> property.
> >>>
> >>> The Civil Contingencies Bill, which covers
> every kind of disaster from
> >>> terrorism to the weather, will be the biggest
> shake-up of emergency laws
> >>> since the early part of the last century,
> replacing legislation which saw
> >>> the UK through a world war and the IRA bombing
> campaign.
> >>>
> >>> Some of the proposals in the draft version of
> the Bill, drawn up in the
> >>> summer, have alarmed civil rights activists,
> notably a clause that gives
> >>> the Government the power to suspend parts or
> all of the Human Rights Act
> >>> without a vote by MPs.
> >>>
> >>> Once an emergency has been proclaimed by the
> Queen, the Government can
> >>> order the destruction of property, order
> people to evacuate an area or
> >>> ban
> >>> them from travelling, and "prohibit
> assemblies of specified kinds" and
> >>> "other specified activities".
> >>>
> >>> If these rules had been in force during the
> Iraq war, critics say, they
> >>> could have been used to to ban street
> demonstrations, making anyone who
> >>> travelled to protest guilty of a criminal
> offence. After a major
> >>> terrorist
> >>> attack, forums made up of local councils, the
> emergency services and
> >>> utility companies would be put in charge of
> trying to get shattered
> >>> communities back together.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ndemo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Ok. Thanks.
> >>> >
> >>> > Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless
> device
> >>> >
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: bitange@jambo.co.ke
> >>> >
> >>> > Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:04
> >>> > To: <dmakali@yahoo.com>
> >>> > Cc: <bitange@jambo.co.ke>; KICTAnet
> ICT Policy
> >>> >
> Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> [ke-internetusers] Kenya
> >>> >      communications(amendment)Bill: Is
> media overacting?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > David,
> >>> > There was a hitch.  It will be in all
> papers tomorrow and will ensure
> >>> you
> >>> > get the soft copy.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Ndemo.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I have treid to find the amended bill
> online with no success; was it
> >>> >> uploaded as promised? someone please?
> >>> >> david
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> _______________
> >>> >>
> >>> >> "If my doctor told me I had only
> six minutes to live,
> >>> >> I wouldn't brood. I'd type a
> little faster."
> >>> >> â€" Isaac Asimo, Columbian
> Author and Scientist
> >>> >> _______________
> >>> >>
> >>> >> PO Box 3234
> >>> >> 00200 Nairobi, Kenya
> >>> >> cell: +254 722 517 540
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --- On Mon, 12/15/08,
> bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> From: bitange@jambo.co.ke
> <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> [ke-internetusers] Kenya
> >>> >>> communications(amendment)Bill: Is
> media overacting?
> >>> >>> To: dmakali@yahoo.com
> >>> >>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>> >
> >>> >>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008,
> 1:04 AM
> >>> >>> Mike,
> >>> >>> Thank you for your objective
> views.  You know very well
> >>> >>> that there are
> >>> >>> thousands of youth out there who
> have patiently waited for
> >>> >>> this bill to
> >>> >>> allow them trade on-line.  Now
> Media calls theirs.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The outcomes of the Kriegler and
> Waki would hopefully deal
> >>> >>> with political
> >>> >>> impunity.  Who will deal with
> media impunity?  In my view
> >>> >>> we must push
> >>> >>> this Bill to ensure that
> electronic media does not continue
> >>> >>> to corrupt our
> >>> >>> children's minds.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Ndemo.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> > Dr. Ndemo,
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I hope that the media note
> that they are on the wrong
> >>> >>> path and move to
> >>> >>> > change their approach. In
> hindsight they might realize
> >>> >>> that the issues at
> >>> >>> > hand could have been tackled
> differently.The
> >>> >>> media's most recent actions
> >>> >>> > only make it more difficult
> to resolve the very same
> >>> >>> issues they are
> >>> >>> > protesting.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > The Nation's editorial
> perhaps represents the
> >>> >>> divergence in views between
> >>> >>> > the media owners, their
> supporters and responsible
> >>> >>> journalists who may
> >>> >>> > have
> >>> >>> > seen that things are
> steering in a dangerous
> >>> >>> direction. As the matter
> >>> >>> > drags
> >>> >>> > on, various elements will
> try to take advantage and
> >>> >>> jump onto the
> >>> >>> > bandwagon
> >>> >>> > to further certain agendas.
> It is this catalyst that
> >>> >>> is worrisome, as
> >>> >>> > there
> >>> >>> > is the possibility that just
> as the media issue has
> >>> >>> somehow been tied to
> >>> >>> > economic issues, the media
> issue could easily be
> >>> >>> misused by those who have
> >>> >>> > little to do with the media.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > The country has many
> volatile problems that should not
> >>> >>> be exploited, some
> >>> >>> > of
> >>> >>> > those jumping onto the media
> bandwagon may be seeking
> >>> >>> to detract from
> >>> >>> > matters facing them, others
> have personal agendas in
> >>> >>> mind that can only
> >>> >>> > progress if they are
> disguised as media and economic
> >>> >>> issues. The media
> >>> >>> > hopefully is looking at
> these issues in a responsible
> >>> >>> manner, will
> >>> >>> > exercise
> >>> >>> > diplomacy and engage the
> Government in a civil way as
> >>> >>> the best way to
> >>> >>> > resolve the impasse. There
> are many Kenyans suffering
> >>> >>> today from matters
> >>> >>> > not
> >>> >>> > within their control, it is
> a dangerous thing for the
> >>> >>> media to act in a
> >>> >>> > way
> >>> >>> > that could easily stir these
> masses to non-civil
> >>> >>> action as measures are
> >>> >>> > being taken to alleviate
> these problems. The media has
> >>> >>> a corporate
> >>> >>> > responsibility in ensuring
> that it exhausts all civil
> >>> >>> means of ensuring
> >>> >>> > the
> >>> >>> > matters are resolved.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > It is encouraging to know
> that the Government is open
> >>> >>> for discussion, but
> >>> >>> > there is only so much that
> the Government can do on
> >>> >>> legislative matters.
> >>> >>> > The
> >>> >>> > Government can draft,
> prepare and adjust laws but it
> >>> >>> cannot pass the same
> >>> >>> > in
> >>> >>> > parliament. The media must
> do more on its own in
> >>> >>> approaching not just key
> >>> >>> > leaders but ultimately the
> legislators who actually
> >>> >>> vote to pass the same
> >>> >>> > laws.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 5:11
> PM,
> >>> >>> <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
> wrote:
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >> Thanks Theuri,
> >>> >>> >> Since Government is open
> for discussion, diplomacy
> >>> >>> would yield better
> >>> >>> >> results.  I have seen
> their action plan which by
> >>> >>> the way violates cck
> >>> >>> >> licence agreement it is
> not the best rout to take.
> >>> >>>  Having spent all
> >>> >>> >> weekend
> >>> >>> >> using public resources
> (frequencies) to propagate
> >>> >>> violence, they should
> >>> >>> >> at
> >>> >>> >> least wait to hear from
> cck.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> If you read today's
> Nation editorial on how to
> >>> >>> end impunity including
> >>> >>> >> media
> >>> >>> >> impunity you wonder if
> they are the same people
> >>> >>> inciting the public to
> >>> >>> >> violence.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Ndemo
> >>> >>> >> Sent from my
> BlackBerry(R)
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> -----Original
> Message-----
> >>> >>> >> From: "Mike
> Theuri"
> >>> >>> <mike.theuri@gmail.com>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008
> 13:19:01
> >>> >>> >> To:
> <bitange@jambo.co.ke>
> >>> >>> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
> >>> >>>
> Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> [ke-internetusers] Kenya
> >>> >>> communications
> >>> >>> >>        (amendment)Bill:
> Is media overacting?
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>> >> kictanet mailing list
> >>> >>> >>
> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> This message was sent
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> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >
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> _______________________________________________
> >>> kictanet mailing list
> >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> This message was sent to:
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Crystal "Naliaka" Watley
> >> Voices of Africa
> >> crystal@voicesofafrica.org
> >> http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
> >>
> >> "You must be the change you wish to see"
> - Gandhi
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>
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> >>
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> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Munyao Longwe
> e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com
> cell:  + 254 722 518 744
> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?

bitange＠jambo.co.ke

Crystal Watley

Mike Theuri

Brian Longwe

John Walubengo

Edith Adera

Mike Theuri

Mike Theuri

Gilda Odera

Gakuru Alex

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participants (8)