Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
Think HIV is more of a danger to us than churches in Kenya are. Serious churches (and very many do) require HIV tests before marrying people. This started in the 90's when Church Leaders found their members were getting together with others who did not disclose they were HIV infected. In less corrupt churches, HIV Tests became one of the conditions to be fulfilled before performing wedding ceremonies. So it is hard to see how an institution that helps check the spread of HIV can be a danger to Kenyan society. It is easier to hound Sheep instead of Political Wolves who steal Billions from the Kenyan public to finance their election campaigns and to support their close associates/mistresses. Am sure most Churches would cooperate with the Central and County Govts in building databases that would help check a major cause of turmoil in Kenya. Am not aware of any law that requires Kenyans to disclose their HIV status but it would help if we knew whether we are being conned or not. huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/05/china-marriage-database-p_n_804686.html -----Original Message----- From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 08:28 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks Daktari I agree about the preachers.... Can your Ministry or in this case CCK do something ? Or Cofek .... Kenyans need protection from these churches more than from telcos Thanks Sent from my iPhone 5 Trial Device On Apr 27, 2011, at 8:55 AM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
You sound like a pessimist. This administration has created more freedom reforms than the entire East Africa combined including the past two administrations in Kenya. And if it realy wanted to curtail such freedom, the New Costitution would not have passed.
We are aware that Kenyans are using social media to propagate hate messages. This is a moral issue and I know the basis of it. Here is the summary:
Over the Easter, I decided to record and listen to all the sermons from at least five TV stations. My conclusion. We are a drift (lost in the wilderness). some of the preachers should not preach to human beings. Here you find extortionists, liers and peddlers of deception. Our theology is misplaced from what it is supposed to be. They promise a heaven yet we know we are supposed to make heaven here on earth.
We need a religious regulator in Kenya and demand for some reforms in this sector. We know Jesus went through Biblical Studies before he started to preach but what I saw was unqualified individuals pretending to preach. In the 16th century Europe, they were in our current state of deception, corruption, begging etc. It was the Protestant Ethic that shaped their destiny and led to the current idiologies in the West. Read the work of Martin Luther, John Calvin and the Puritans of England. This is what shaped the future of Europe.
We must now embrace the values in our new constitution and hopefully reform our religions to the extent that they can lead a moral revolution. Without this, no one individual can govern this country effectively. We must blame ourselves for the weaknesses we have. Honesty, intergrity, humility et
[The entire original message is not included]
Murigi... saying the church is good because it stops the spread of HIV ..... thats new. and if we look at the grand scheme of things, the church should not use sickness (HIV) to pick who gets hitched ... this is part of stigmatization of HIV patients ps: Did you vote with the "church" during the referendum ? Thanks On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 6:41 PM, S.Murigi Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Think HIV is more of a danger to us than churches in Kenya are. Serious churches (and very many do) require HIV tests before marrying people.
This started in the 90's when Church Leaders found their members were getting together with others who did not disclose they were HIV infected. In less corrupt churches, HIV Tests became one of the conditions to be fulfilled before performing wedding ceremonies.
So it is hard to see how an institution that helps check the spread of HIV can be a danger to Kenyan society.
It is easier to hound Sheep instead of Political Wolves who steal Billions from the Kenyan public to finance their election campaigns and to support their close associates/mistresses.
Am sure most Churches would cooperate with the Central and County Govts in building databases that would help check a major cause of turmoil in Kenya.
Am not aware of any law that requires Kenyans to disclose their HIV status but it would help if we knew whether we are being conned or not.
huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/05/china-marriage-database-p_n_804686.html
-----Original Message----- From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 08:28 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
Daktari
I agree about the preachers.... Can your Ministry or in this case CCK do something ?
Or Cofek .... Kenyans need protection from these churches more than from telcos
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone 5 Trial Device
On Apr 27, 2011, at 8:55 AM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
You sound like a pessimist. This administration has created more freedom reforms than the entire East Africa combined including the past two administrations in Kenya. And if it realy wanted to curtail such freedom, the New Costitution would not have passed.
We are aware that Kenyans are using social media to propagate hate messages. This is a moral issue and I know the basis of it. Here is the summary:
Over the Easter, I decided to record and listen to all the sermons from at least five TV stations. My conclusion. We are a drift (lost in the wilderness). some of the preachers should not preach to human beings. Here you find extortionists, liers and peddlers of deception. Our theology is misplaced from what it is supposed to be. They promise a heaven yet we know we are supposed to make heaven here on earth.
We need a religious regulator in Kenya and demand for some reforms in this sector. We know Jesus went through Biblical Studies before he started to preach but what I saw was unqualified individuals pretending to preach. In the 16th century Europe, they were in our current state of deception, corruption, begging etc. It was the Protestant Ethic that shaped their destiny and led to the current idiologies in the West. Read the work of Martin Luther, John Calvin and the Puritans of England. This is what shaped the future of Europe.
We must now embrace the values in our new constitution and hopefully reform our religions to the extent that they can lead a moral revolution. Without this, no one individual can govern this country effectively. We must blame ourselves for the weaknesses we have. Honesty, intergrity, humility et
[The entire original message is not included]
I don't think it is right to imagine that all money given to the Church end up in pockets of a few. I think most of the churches, or at least all mainstream churches have strict management of collections. Most of them ensure funds go to right use as Murigi as pointed out. Of course most of them have no TV airing and I guess that is why it is easy to imagine the television preachers are the main representatives of the Church in Kenya. Cleophas On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
Murigi...
saying the church is good because it stops the spread of HIV ..... thats new. and if we look at the grand scheme of things, the church should not use sickness (HIV) to pick who gets hitched ... this is part of stigmatization of HIV patients
ps: Did you vote with the "church" during the referendum ?
Thanks
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 6:41 PM, S.Murigi Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
Think HIV is more of a danger to us than churches in Kenya are. Serious churches (and very many do) require HIV tests before marrying people.
This started in the 90's when Church Leaders found their members were getting together with others who did not disclose they were HIV infected. In less corrupt churches, HIV Tests became one of the conditions to be fulfilled before performing wedding ceremonies.
So it is hard to see how an institution that helps check the spread of HIV can be a danger to Kenyan society.
It is easier to hound Sheep instead of Political Wolves who steal Billions from the Kenyan public to finance their election campaigns and to support their close associates/mistresses.
Am sure most Churches would cooperate with the Central and County Govts in building databases that would help check a major cause of turmoil in Kenya.
Am not aware of any law that requires Kenyans to disclose their HIV status but it would help if we knew whether we are being conned or not.
huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/05/china-marriage-database-p_n_804686.html
-----Original Message----- From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 08:28 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
Daktari
I agree about the preachers.... Can your Ministry or in this case CCK do something ?
Or Cofek .... Kenyans need protection from these churches more than from telcos
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone 5 Trial Device
On Apr 27, 2011, at 8:55 AM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
You sound like a pessimist. This administration has created more freedom reforms than the entire East Africa combined including the past two administrations in Kenya. And if it realy wanted to curtail such freedom, the New Costitution would not have passed.
We are aware that Kenyans are using social media to propagate hate messages. This is a moral issue and I know the basis of it. Here is the summary:
Over the Easter, I decided to record and listen to all the sermons from at least five TV stations. My conclusion. We are a drift (lost in the wilderness). some of the preachers should not preach to human beings. Here you find extortionists, liers and peddlers of deception. Our theology is misplaced from what it is supposed to be. They promise a heaven yet we know we are supposed to make heaven here on earth.
We need a religious regulator in Kenya and demand for some reforms in this sector. We know Jesus went through Biblical Studies before he started to preach but what I saw was unqualified individuals pretending to preach. In the 16th century Europe, they were in our current state of deception, corruption, begging etc. It was the Protestant Ethic that shaped their destiny and led to the current idiologies in the West. Read the work of Martin Luther, John Calvin and the Puritans of England. This is what shaped the future of Europe.
We must now embrace the values in our new constitution and hopefully reform our religions to the extent that they can lead a moral revolution. Without this, no one individual can govern this country effectively. We must blame ourselves for the weaknesses we have. Honesty, intergrity, humility et
[The entire original message is not included]
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Sincerely, Cleophas Barmasai "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age..." (Titus 2:11,12, NKJV)
@cbarmasai Well noted. @agosta Who said churches do not marry HIV infected people? Should churches be like bars or night clubs that intoxicate people into getting together without knowing each others HIV status? Sorry, could not vote in favor of gay marriage. http://www.gaykenya.com/news/3851.html On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Cleophas Barmasai <cbarmasai@gmail.com>wrote:
I don't think it is right to imagine that all money given to the Church end up in pockets of a few. I think most of the churches, or at least all mainstream churches have strict management of collections. Most of them ensure funds go to right use as Murigi as pointed out. Of course most of them have no TV airing and I guess that is why it is easy to imagine the television preachers are the main representatives of the Church in Kenya.
Cleophas
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
Murigi...
saying the church is good because it stops the spread of HIV ..... thats new. and if we look at the grand scheme of things, the church should not use sickness (HIV) to pick who gets hitched ... this is part of stigmatization of HIV patients
ps: Did you vote with the "church" during the referendum ?
Thanks
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 6:41 PM, S.Murigi Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com
wrote:
Think HIV is more of a danger to us than churches in Kenya are. Serious churches (and very many do) require HIV tests before marrying people.
This started in the 90's when Church Leaders found their members were getting together with others who did not disclose they were HIV infected. In less corrupt churches, HIV Tests became one of the conditions to be fulfilled before performing wedding ceremonies.
So it is hard to see how an institution that helps check the spread of HIV can be a danger to Kenyan society.
It is easier to hound Sheep instead of Political Wolves who steal Billions from the Kenyan public to finance their election campaigns and to support their close associates/mistresses.
Am sure most Churches would cooperate with the Central and County Govts in building databases that would help check a major cause of turmoil in Kenya.
Am not aware of any law that requires Kenyans to disclose their HIV status but it would help if we knew whether we are being conned or not.
huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/05/china-marriage-database-p_n_804686.html
-----Original Message----- From: Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 08:28 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks
Daktari
I agree about the preachers.... Can your Ministry or in this case CCK do something ?
Or Cofek .... Kenyans need protection from these churches more than from telcos
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone 5 Trial Device
On Apr 27, 2011, at 8:55 AM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
You sound like a pessimist. This administration has created more freedom reforms than the entire East Africa combined including the past two administrations in Kenya. And if it realy wanted to curtail such freedom, the New Costitution would not have passed.
We are aware that Kenyans are using social media to propagate hate messages. This is a moral issue and I know the basis of it. Here is the summary:
Over the Easter, I decided to record and listen to all the sermons from at least five TV stations. My conclusion. We are a drift (lost in the wilderness). some of the preachers should not preach to human beings. Here you find extortionists, liers and peddlers of deception. Our theology is misplaced from what it is supposed to be. They promise a heaven yet we know we are supposed to make heaven here on earth.
We need a religious regulator in Kenya and demand for some reforms in this sector. We know Jesus went through Biblical Studies before he started to preach but what I saw was unqualified individuals pretending to preach. In the 16th century Europe, they were in our current state of deception, corruption, begging etc. It was the Protestant Ethic that shaped their destiny and led to the current idiologies in the West. Read the work of Martin Luther, John Calvin and the Puritans of England. This is what shaped the future of Europe.
We must now embrace the values in our new constitution and hopefully reform our religions to the extent that they can lead a moral revolution. Without this, no one individual can govern this country effectively. We must blame ourselves for the weaknesses we have. Honesty, intergrity, humility et
[The entire original message is not included]
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Sincerely,
Cleophas Barmasai "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age..." (Titus 2:11,12, NKJV)
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Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.c...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I have raised the same issue with NCCK and other mainstream Churches. To say the least I was even more shocked to learn that some are being used to "clean" money obtained corruptly. In today's anti corruption meeting the issue was extensively discussed. Mainstrean Churches are of the view that KRA at least should ensure that proper audits are done and that the sources of funds are credible. Some religious groups also called some commission responsible for religious activities. While we need prudence in tax expenditure, we must also look into all aspects of tax evasion including flimsy exemptions from the NGO sector. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Cleophas Barmasai <cbarmasai@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:48:18 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Certainly. During the referendum campaigns, it was widely reported and believed that some of the religious groups got money from suspect sources from outside Kenya for the anti-katiba (abortion and kadhi courts) campaigns. A spotlight in this sector is in order. Oloo Janak --- On Fri, 4/29/11, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: From: bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks To: williamjanak@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 4:28 PM I have raised the same issue with NCCK and other mainstream Churches. To say the least I was even more shocked to learn that some are being used to "clean" money obtained corruptly. In today's anti corruption meeting the issue was extensively discussed. Mainstrean Churches are of the view that KRA at least should ensure that proper audits are done and that the sources of funds are credible. Some religious groups also called some commission responsible for religious activities. While we need prudence in tax expenditure, we must also look into all aspects of tax evasion including flimsy exemptions from the NGO sector. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Cleophas Barmasai <cbarmasai@gmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:48:18 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] UCC attempts to block social networks _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/williamjanak%40yahoo.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (5)
-
Agosta Liko -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Cleophas Barmasai -
S.Murigi Muraya -
william janak