I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment. For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%. The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available. The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available. Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most. I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future. Regards Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom ----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Competition? 3 cables does NOT = competition. As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future. Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas? Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates. walu. --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers best friend.
In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging, and pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves out arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to fuel more competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural.
Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be talking to us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology innovation and entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August).
I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans regards hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?"
See the attached image.
Regards,
Alex
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the country, the one sure thing that always worked was competition. In the case of the cables, I think the competitive pressures are much more for the operators as the investment (stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both Seacom and Teams have more than three times the current bandwidth demand. That means the wiser operators will not only be the ones that are first to market, but those that give the right price to attract the economies of scale
back their investment. Any operator that delays this
much more future cost to convincing consumers to get onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and what will be interesting is which operators are able to see things from a long-term perspective and win the market. The fact that some operators have a much broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost and the game now is who can get the user numbers on their network. Any short-term gains by an operator through higer prices will cost them significantly more in the long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Waudo,
Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was
money by close to 40% (i think). So you and me have a 40% say or demand that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. But you and me (tax payers) have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only
shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the famous SAT3 cable on the west-african cost that had little impact on
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com> wrote: the many years we they need to ever get process will only have this more interesting put up with Tax payers the individual pricing? the individual
shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% below satellite in order to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. 15 years later, the prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. That is called Business- increasing shareholders value and yes nobody should apologies for that)
In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and CCK can shout as much as they want and they have every right not to care. BUT with TEAMS you and i do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with shares on both cables can be compelled to reduce prices because if push comes to shove Safcom can say their data is strictly running on the (private) SEACOM cable which is exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can chose to say TEAMS is simply it back-up route.
Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here and its going to be very interesting...
walu.
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mjoseph@safaricom.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mjoseph%40safaricom.co.... ##################################################################################### NOTE: The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this email if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated. The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limited disclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequences that may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personal opinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromise or damage the integrity of the recipient�s information technology systems. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately delete this email from your system.Unless expressly stated by a duly authorised officer of Safaricom Limited nothing contained in this email message may be construed as being an offer to contract or an acceptance of an offer capable of constituting a contract between Safaricom Limited and any recipient(s) of this email. #####################################################################################
online responses On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Michael Joseph<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
If it may assist, my online policy is to disregard ungrounded comments from "only virtual" annonymii - never seen in real-life for it's awfully tempting to hide behind anonymous e-IDs solely to pelt quite unpleasant words.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
Proof that competition works. Regulator has indicated their future attention to strengthening competition environment and consumer protection. I am comfortable with that- now it's just to ensure it happens.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future.
Retreat? - a bad move~) Engage "reasonables" and ignore "outrageous" walu:
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
add Orange will soon also have their own from Indian Ocean islands. add O3B, We'll get somewhere...
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
I think the *real* problem is that, as usual, in Kenya nobody teaches us or prepares the public on "how-to-lose." The public is ever so subjected to "runners-up" hypes - e.g. 2007 elections, now fibre/cheap Internet, therefore, when eventually things do not turn out as expected, anger easily turns into something else- understandable given the promises made. The important thing is not to lose sight of the long term and try to be 3C (Cool, Calm, Collected) then device interventions, calmly~) cheers,
Maybe its time to split these list. Businesses and Civil Society actors. They will never see things the same. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Gakuru Alex<alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
online responses
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Michael Joseph<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
If it may assist, my online policy is to disregard ungrounded comments from "only virtual" annonymii - never seen in real-life for it's awfully tempting to hide behind anonymous e-IDs solely to pelt quite unpleasant words.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
Proof that competition works. Regulator has indicated their future attention to strengthening competition environment and consumer protection. I am comfortable with that- now it's just to ensure it happens.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future.
Retreat? - a bad move~) Engage "reasonables" and ignore "outrageous"
walu:
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
add Orange will soon also have their own from Indian Ocean islands. add O3B, We'll get somewhere...
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
Billy I would rather you address the issues raised instead of sideshows. We are all in ICT and the businessmen must listen also to the consumers ndugu. Thats when we will have a full society. Lets not have an apartheid here. OH
-----Original Message----- From: billkagai@gmail.com Sent: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:29:19 -0400 To: onyango@inbox.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
Maybe its time to split these list. Businesses and Civil Society actors. They will never see things the same.
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Gakuru Alex<alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
online responses
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Michael Joseph<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
If it may assist, my online policy is to disregard ungrounded comments from "only virtual" annonymii - never seen in real-life for it's awfully tempting to hide behind anonymous e-IDs solely to pelt quite unpleasant words.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
Proof that competition works. Regulator has indicated their future attention to strengthening competition environment and consumer protection. I am comfortable with that- now it's just to ensure it happens.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future.
Retreat? - a bad move~) Engage "reasonables" and ignore "outrageous"
walu:
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
add Orange will soon also have their own from Indian Ocean islands. add O3B, We'll get somewhere...
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: onyango@inbox.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/onyango%40inbox.com
Ndugu Joseph Can you be specific on who used bad language on you or is ignorant? I think that you are skirting issues here and wishing them away. I also dont know if you want us to book appointment with your office everytime we have one because of your online policy? What I asked were very specific and I still need to know when Kenyan currency started expiring. I am ready to book an appointment with you if thats the only way you would address them. OH
-----Original Message----- From: alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com Sent: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:45:15 +0300 To: onyango@inbox.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
online responses
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Michael Joseph<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
If it may assist, my online policy is to disregard ungrounded comments from "only virtual" annonymii - never seen in real-life for it's awfully tempting to hide behind anonymous e-IDs solely to pelt quite unpleasant words.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
Proof that competition works. Regulator has indicated their future attention to strengthening competition environment and consumer protection. I am comfortable with that- now it's just to ensure it happens.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future.
Retreat? - a bad move~) Engage "reasonables" and ignore "outrageous"
walu:
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
add Orange will soon also have their own from Indian Ocean islands. add O3B, We'll get somewhere...
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
I think the *real* problem is that, as usual, in Kenya nobody teaches us or prepares the public on "how-to-lose." The public is ever so subjected to "runners-up" hypes - e.g. 2007 elections, now fibre/cheap Internet, therefore, when eventually things do not turn out as expected, anger easily turns into something else- understandable given the promises made.
The important thing is not to lose sight of the long term and try to be 3C (Cool, Calm, Collected) then device interventions, calmly~)
cheers,
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This message was sent to: onyango@inbox.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/onyango%40inbox.com
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Dear list, I've been trying very hard to hold back on my comments and probably the last for a while. I'm your average techie and believe safaricom pricing is not an issue at this early stage. What is important and extremely positive is that Safaricom become the FIRST operator in the entire country to bring the new world to our data networks. While there should be discussion about pricing, NO other operator nor ISP has so far given kenyans access to the much needed undersea cable capacity, besides 1-4 month projections about providing the capacity. Price comparisons will only happen if others follow suite but as we now know, this is delayed for a few months. This delay is not positive and this is what the discussion should be about. As of July 25th morning 2009, Safaricom become the pioneer in delivery of seacom data capacity from the global arena. This is the most historic moment for some of us in the networks world. And for that, Mr Michael Joseph and Safaricom take the lead while others follow. Its that simple and in my book, such operators as Safaricom deserve plenty of positiveness! Incase you were not aware, there are two type of networks in kenya at the moment : Real Broadband ( Safaricom ) and Unknown Broadband ( Other players ) . Let the other players learn something from Safaricom. I can probably write a full page on this, but will refrain. If my comments have erred, kindly do take them as an amatuer's response to this thread. With Rgds.
I agree that this information is publicly available and I can share what I found based on some research I am currently involved in. If I am wrong, kindly update as it will also help with our research. As you can see I have already deleted a few from TEAMS. Thanks Nyaki: TEAMS Shareholders Kenya government (20%) France Telecom (10%) Access Kenya (1.25 %) Safaricom (22.5%) Kenya Data Networks (10%) Inhand Equip Ltd (1.25 %) Econet Wireless Kenya ltd (10%) Wananchi Telecom (5%) Flashcom (1.25 %) Telkom Kenya (22.5 %) Jamii Telecom (3.75%) Fibrent Africa of Uganda. (1.25 %) Seacom shareholders Industrial Promotion Services– an arm of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (25%) Convergence Partners (12.5%) Venfin Limited (25 %) Shanduka Group (12.5%). International Herakles Telecom with (25%) EASSy Shareholders Sudan: Sudatel Tanzania: Tanzania Telecommunications Company Limited Djibouti: Djibouti Telecom Madagascar: Telma Somalia: Dalkom Mozambique: Telecommunication de Mozambique Kenya: Telkom Kenya Pan-African telecom trade association: ATU South Africa: Telkom SA, Neotel, MTN Group ________________________________ From: Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:00:48 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment. For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%. The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available. The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available. Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most. I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future. Regards Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom ----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Competition? 3 cables does NOT = competition. As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future. Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas? Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates. walu. --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers best friend.
In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging, and pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves out arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to fuel more competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural.
Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be talking to us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology innovation and entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August).
I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans regards hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?"
See the attached image.
Regards,
Alex
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the country, the one sure thing that always worked was competition. In the case of the cables, I think the competitive pressures are much more for the operators as the investment (stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both Seacom and Teams have more than three times the current bandwidth demand. That means the wiser operators will not only be the ones that are first to market, but those that give the right price to attract the economies of scale
back their investment. Any operator that delays this
much more future cost to convincing consumers to get onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and what will be interesting is which operators are able to see things from a long-term perspective and win the market. The fact that some operators have a much broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost and the game now is who can get the user numbers on their network. Any short-term gains by an operator through higer prices will cost them significantly more in the long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Waudo,
Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was
money by close to 40% (i think). Â So you and me have a 40% say or demand that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. Â But you and me (tax payers) have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only
shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the famous SAT3 cable on the west-african cost that had little impact on
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com> wrote: the many years we they need to ever get process will only have this more interesting put up with Tax payers the individual pricing? the individual
shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% below satellite in order to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. Â 15 years later, the prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. Â That is called Business- increasing shareholders value and yes nobody should apologies for that)
In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and CCK can shout as much as they want and they have every right not to care. Â BUT with TEAMS you and i do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with shares on both cables can be compelled to reduce prices because if push comes to shove Safcom can say their data is strictly running on the (private) SEACOM cable which is exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can chose to say TEAMS is simply it back-up route.
Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here and its going to be very interesting...
walu.
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mjoseph@safaricom.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mjoseph%40safaricom.co.... ________________________________ Note: The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this email if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated. The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limited disclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequences that may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personal opinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromise or damage the integrity of the recipient’s information technology systems. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately delete this email from your system.Unless expressly stated by a duly authorised officer of Safaricom Limited nothing contained in this email message may be construed as being an offer to contract or an acceptance of an offer capable of constituting a contract between Safaricom Limited and any recipient(s) of this email. ________________________________
Walu, The Ownership table below looks fairly accurate in comparison to data available online on Wikipedia (Follow url :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAMS_(cable_system) however Wikipedia may not be an authority in terms of source of the information. S. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com>wrote:
I agree that this information is publicly available and I can share what I found based on some research I am currently involved in. If I am wrong, kindly update as it will also help with our research. As you can see I have already deleted a few from TEAMS. Thanks Nyaki:
TEAMS Shareholders
Kenya government (20%)
France Telecom (10%)
Access Kenya (1.25 %)
Safaricom (22.5%)
Kenya Data Networks (10%)
Inhand Equip Ltd (1.25 %)
Econet Wireless Kenya ltd (10%)
Wananchi Telecom (5%)
Flashcom (1.25 %)
Telkom Kenya (22.5 %)
Jamii Telecom (3.75%)
Fibrent Africa of Uganda. (1.25 %)
Seacom shareholders
Industrial Promotion Services– an arm of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (25%)
Convergence Partners (12.5%)
Venfin Limited (25 %)
Shanduka Group (12.5%).
International Herakles Telecom with (25%)
EASSy Shareholders
Sudan: Sudatel
Tanzania: Tanzania Telecommunications Company Limited
Djibouti: Djibouti Telecom
Madagascar: Telma
Somalia: Dalkom
Mozambique: Telecommunication de Mozambique
Kenya: Telkom Kenya
Pan-African telecom trade association: ATU
South Africa: Telkom SA, Neotel, MTN Group
------------------------------ *
From:* Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> *To:* elizaslider@yahoo.com *Cc:* kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:00:48 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%.
The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available.
The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future. Regards
Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke<kictanet-bounces+mjoseph= safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
walu.
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers best friend.
In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging, and pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves out arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to fuel more competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural.
Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be talking to us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology innovation and entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August).
I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans regards hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?"
See the attached image.
Regards,
Alex
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the country, the one sure thing that always worked was competition. In the case of the cables, I think the competitive pressures are much more for the operators as the investment (stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both Seacom and Teams have more than three times the current bandwidth demand. That means the wiser operators will not only be the ones that are first to market, but those that give the right price to attract the economies of scale
back their investment. Any operator that delays this
much more future cost to convincing consumers to get onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and what will be interesting is which operators are able to see things from a long-term perspective and win the market. The fact that some operators have a much broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost and the game now is who can get the user numbers on their network. Any short-term gains by an operator through higer prices will cost them significantly more in the long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Waudo,
Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was
money by close to 40% (i think). Â So you and me have a 40% say or demand that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. Â But you and me (tax payers) have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only
shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the famous SAT3 cable on the west-african cost that had little impact on
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com> wrote: the many years we they need to ever get process will only have this more interesting put up with Tax payers the individual pricing? the individual
shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% below satellite in order to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. Â 15 years later, the prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. Â That is called Business- increasing shareholders value and yes nobody should apologies for that)
In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and CCK can shout as much as they want and they have every right not to care. Â BUT with TEAMS you and i
do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with shares on both cables can be compelled to reduce prices because if push comes to shove Safcom can say their data is strictly running on the (private) SEACOM cable which is exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can chose to say TEAMS is simply it back-up route.
Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here and its going to be very interesting...
walu.
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Hi, For more sources on shareholding below are the links to the Seacom and Eassy web sites where there is a breakdown of who owns what. Teams are yet to develop their web site. Eassy: http://www.eassy.org/ http://www.wiocc.net/ Seacom: http://www.seacom.mu Have a good day, Tom Maliti Correspondent East Africa Bureau Direct line: +254 20 285 9109 Office line: +254 20 285 9000 +254 734 555 252 Fax: +254 20 2724726 Mobile +254 733 641 984 ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Sam Gatere Sent: 03 August 2009 21:18 To: Maliti, Tom Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Walu, The Ownership table below looks fairly accurate in comparison to data available online on Wikipedia (Follow url :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAMS_(cable_system) however Wikipedia may not be an authority in terms of source of the information. S. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote: I agree that this information is publicly available and I can share what I found based on some research I am currently involved in. If I am wrong, kindly update as it will also help with our research. As you can see I have already deleted a few from TEAMS. Thanks Nyaki: TEAMS Shareholders Kenya government (20%) France Telecom (10%) Access Kenya (1.25 %) Safaricom (22.5%) Kenya Data Networks (10%) Inhand Equip Ltd (1.25 %) Econet Wireless Kenya ltd (10%) Wananchi Telecom (5%) Flashcom (1.25 %) Telkom Kenya (22.5 %) Jamii Telecom (3.75%) Fibrent Africa of Uganda. (1.25 %) Seacom shareholders Industrial Promotion Services- an arm of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (25%) Convergence Partners (12.5%) Venfin Limited (25 %) Shanduka Group (12.5%). International Herakles Telecom with (25%) EASSy Shareholders Sudan: Sudatel Tanzania: Tanzania Telecommunications Company Limited Djibouti: Djibouti Telecom Madagascar: Telma Somalia: Dalkom Mozambique: Telecommunication de Mozambique Kenya: Telkom Kenya Pan-African telecom trade association: ATU South Africa: Telkom SA, Neotel, MTN Group ________________________________ From: Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:00:48 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment. For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%. The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available. The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available. Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most. I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future. Regards Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom ----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Competition? 3 cables does NOT = competition. As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future. Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas? Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates. walu. --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS > To: jwalu@yahoo.com > Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM > Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers > best friend. > > In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging, > and > pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves > out > arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to > fuel more > competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural. > > Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be > talking to > us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology > innovation and > entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August). > > I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans > regards > hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?" > > See the attached image. > > Regards, > > Alex > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com> > wrote: > > Walu, > > > > I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over > the many years we > > have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the > country, the one sure > > thing that always worked was competition. In the case > of the cables, I think > > the competitive pressures are much more for the > operators as the investment > > (stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both > Seacom and Teams have > > more than three times the current bandwidth demand. > That means the wiser > > operators will not only be the ones that are first to > market, but those that > > give the right price to attract the economies of scale > they need to ever get > > back their investment. Any operator that delays this > process will only have > > much more future cost to convincing consumers to get > onto their network. > > > > I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and > what will be > > interesting is which operators are able to see things > from a long-term > > perspective and win the market. The fact that some > operators have a much > > broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes > this more interesting > > and does not give outright victory to one. > > > > In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost > and the game now is who > > can get the user numbers on their network. Any > short-term gains by an > > operator through higer prices will cost them > significantly more in the > > long-run. > > > > my 2cts worth > > > > Joe Mucheru > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Waudo, > >> > >> Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was > put up with Tax payers > >> money by close to 40% (i think).  So you and me > have a 40% say or demand > >> that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. >  But you and me (tax payers) > >> have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM. > >> > >> SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only > the individual > >> shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the > famous SAT3 cable on the > >> west-african cost that had little impact on > pricing? the individual > >> shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% > below satellite in order > >> to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. >  15 years later, the > >> prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. >  That is called Business- > >> increasing shareholders value and yes nobody > should apologies for that) > >> > >> In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and > CCK can shout as much as > >> they want and they have every right not to care. >  BUT with TEAMS you and i > >> do have a say - however small it is or it maybe. > >> > >> And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with > shares on both cables > >> can be compelled to reduce prices because if push > comes to shove Safcom can > >> say their data is strictly running on the > (private) SEACOM cable which is > >> exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can > chose to say TEAMS is > >> simply it back-up route. > >> > >> Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here > and its going to be very > >> interesting... > >> > >> walu. > >> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mjoseph@safaricom.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mjoseph%40safaricom.co.... ________________________________ Note: The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this email if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated. The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limited disclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequences that may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personal opinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromise or damage the integrity of the recipient's information technology systems. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately delete this email from your system.Unless expressly stated by a duly authorised officer of Safaricom Limited nothing contained in this email message may be construed as being an offer to contract or an acceptance of an offer capable of constituting a contract between Safaricom Limited and any recipient(s) of this email. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: sam.gatere@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sam.gatere%40gmail.com The information contained in this communication is intended for the use of the designated recipients named above. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify The Associated Press immediately by telephone at +44-20-7482-7400 and delete this e-mail. Thank you. [IP_UK_DISC] msk dccc60c6d2c3a6438f0cf467d9a4938
Thanks but Tom, so is what I sent factually correct? Nyaki ________________________________ From: "Maliti, Tom" <tmaliti@ap.org> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:18:04 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Hi, For more sources on shareholding below are the links to the Seacom and Eassy web sites where there is a breakdown of who owns what. Teams are yet to develop their web site. Eassy: http://www.eassy.org/ http://www.wiocc.net/ Seacom: http://www.seacom.mu Have a good day, Tom Maliti Correspondent East Africa Bureau Direct line: +254 20 285 9109 Office line: +254 20 285 9000 +254 734 555 252 Fax: +254 20 2724726 Mobile +254 733 641 984 ________________________________ From: kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Sam Gatere Sent: 03 August 2009 21:18 To: Maliti, Tom Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS Walu, The Ownership table below looks fairly accurate in comparison to data available online on Wikipedia (Follow url :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAMS_(cable_system) however Wikipedia may not be an authority in terms of source of the information. S. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider@yahoo.com> wrote: I agree that this information is publicly available and I can share what
I found based on some research I am currently involved in. If I am wrong, kindly update as it will also help with our research. As you can see I have already deleted a few from TEAMS. Thanks Nyaki:
TEAMS Shareholders Kenya government (20%) France Telecom (10%) Access Kenya (1.25 %) Safaricom (22.5%) Kenya Data Networks (10%) Inhand Equip Ltd (1.25 %) Econet Wireless Kenya ltd (10%) Wananchi Telecom (5%) Flashcom (1.25 %) Telkom Kenya (22.5 %) Jamii Telecom
(3.75%) Fibrent Africa of Uganda. (1.25 %)
Seacom shareholders Industrial Promotion Services– an arm of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (25%) Convergence Partners (12.5%)
Venfin Limited (25 %) Shanduka Group (12.5%). International Herakles Telecom with (25%)
EASSy Shareholders Sudan: Sudatel Tanzania: Tanzania Telecommunications Company Limited Djibouti: Djibouti Telecom Madagascar: Telma
Somalia: Dalkom Mozambique: Telecommunication de Mozambique Kenya: Telkom Kenya Pan-African telecom trade association: ATU South Africa: Telkom SA, Neotel, MTN Group
________________________________
From: Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> To: elizaslider@yahoo.com
Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:00:48 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%.
The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available.
The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future. Regards
Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs (tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
walu.
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers best friend.
In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging, and pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves out arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to fuel more competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural.
Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be talking to us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology innovation and entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August).
I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans regards hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?"
See the attached image.
Regards,
Alex
wrote:
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than
the many years we
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the country, the one sure thing
of the cables, I
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com> that. Over that always worked was competition. In the case think
the competitive pressures are much more for the
(stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both Seacom and Teams have more than three times the current bandwidth demand. That means the wiser
operators will not only be the ones that are first to market, but
operators as the investment those that
give the right price to attract the economies of scale they need to ever get back their investment. Any operator that delays this process will only have much more future cost to convincing consumers to get onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and what will be interesting is which operators are able to see things from a long-term perspective and win the market. The fact that some operators have a much
broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes this more interesting
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost
can get the user numbers on their network. Any short-term gains by an operator through higer prices will cost them significantly more in the
long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM,
Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Waudo,
Difference -at least on
and the game now is who paper- is that TEAMS was
put up with Tax payers
money by close to 40% (i think). Â So you and me
that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. Â But you and me (tax
have a 40% say or demand payers)
have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
SEACOM was put up with 100% private money -
shareholders can decide on
west-african cost that had little impact on
only the individual pricing (remember the famous SAT3 cable on the pricing? the individual
shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% below satellite in order to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. Â 15 years later, the
prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. Â That is called Business-
increasing shareholders value and yes nobody should apologies for that)
In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and CCK can shout as much as they want and they have every right not to care. Â BUT with TEAMS you and i
do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with shares on both cables can be compelled to reduce prices because if push comes to shove Safcom can
say their data is strictly running on the (private) SEACOM cable which is
exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can chose to say TEAMS is simply it back-up route.
Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here and its going to be very
interesting...
walu.
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
kictanet mailing
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Michael J, Just gone through recent posts and i get the feeling it is MY post that seems to send you back into hibernation. Plse note that my comments have and will always be in good faith - even though they may sound provocative. In Academia we call this Critique-ing (as opposed to criticizing). It is an important part of the critical thinking process and serves to unveil and share knowledge (as it has just done with the sharing of published shareholding values in TEAMs, EAssy, SEACOM). But again not everyone is Academic, and not everyone is that gifted and successfull CEO or that good Politician, or that top Technocrat or that skillfull Internet Engineer, or that Media die-hard or that Consumer die-hard - just to mention a few of the profiles that have continued to define the KICTAnet Value simply by hanging in there - even when they felt totally misunderstood. walu. nb: on a happier note as you hibernate- I have finally pinged from .KE over the Safaricom modem and boy, the results indicate its 3times faster! I agree with Aki's comments. --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
From: Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:00 PM
Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
I think the allegations and language used on this list really discourage real informative comment.
For information the shareholders of the Teams cable, who are most of the telecom operators in Kenya, will own and manage the cable and will sell their capacity both wholesale and retail as they see fit. The GOK owns 20%.
The Seacom cable is owned by a separate set of shareholders and this info is publically available.
The Eassy cable will be owned by another group of shareholders including a number of African telecom operators. This info is also publically available.
Not one shareholder will want to price themselves out of the market and, as another commentator mentioned earlier, the first to market with competitive prices will gain the most.
I broke my silence on this subject a few days ago and I regret it now as mostly the comments have been somewhat impolite, to put it mildly. I will refrain in future.
Regards
Michael Joseph
CEO
Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry® powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message -----
From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
To: Michael Joseph
Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Sat Aug 01 19:16:51 2009
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
Competition?
3 cables does NOT = competition.
As Waudo mentioned elsewhere in his posts, the big boys and girls sitting on TEAMs board are the same ones on SEACOM, EASSy and most likely anything else likely to land in Mombasa in the near future.
Basically you are looking at a conducive\cartel environment for fixing prices - think of our oil industry. Yes you have competition in the name of Agip, Total, Caltex, etc but has that brought down prices for gas?
Probably am being paranoid but I am waiting for the case study where public good won over private profits...maybe it will happen in another 4 months as the PS said. And when it happens it should should not be the misleading by 1-5% price drops. Ideally for the TEAMs
(tax-payers) cable you should be asking for the less than 100USD per MB prices that have been floated around over the recent years. And that should be per month rates NOT the punitive per byte of download rates.
walu.
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
To: jwalu@yahoo.com
Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:54 PM
Competition!! Yes indeed is consumers
best friend.
In fact, instead of staying out all night pinging, pinging,
and
pinging.. and nothing much changes...then burning ourselves
out
arguing on Seacom pricing, we should now strategise how to
fuel more
competition, confront next connectivity frontier-rural.
Skunkworks are pleased to inform you that PS Ndemo will be
talking to
us about the one million laptops stimulus, technology
innovation and
entrepreneurship- On Tuesday next week (4th August).
I intend to ask him "what would be the government's plans
regards
hooking Kenya up with http://www.o3bnetworks.com/?"
See the attached image.
Regards,
Alex
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Joseph Mucheru<mucheru@google.com>
wrote:
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over
the many years we
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the
country, the one sure
thing that always worked was competition. In the case
of the cables, I think
the competitive pressures are much more for the
operators as the investment
(stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both
Seacom and Teams have
more than three times the current bandwidth demand.
That means the wiser
operators will not only be the ones that are first to
market, but those that
give the right price to attract the economies of scale
they need to ever get
back their investment. Any operator that delays this
process will only have
much more future cost to convincing consumers to get
onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and
what will be
interesting is which operators are able to see things
from a long-term
perspective and win the market. The fact that some
operators have a much
broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes
this more interesting
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost
and the game now is who
can get the user numbers on their network. Any
short-term gains by an
operator through higer prices will cost them
significantly more in the
long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Waudo,
Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was
put up with Tax payers
money by close to 40% (i think). Â So you and me
have a 40% say or demand
that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost.
 But you and me (tax payers)
have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only
the individual
shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the
famous SAT3 cable on the
west-african cost that had little impact on
pricing? the individual
shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5%
below satellite in order
to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes.
 15 years later, the
prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs.
 That is called Business-
increasing shareholders value and yes nobody
should apologies for that)
In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and
CCK can shout as much as
they want and they have every right not to care.
 BUT with TEAMS you and i
do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with
shares on both cables
can be compelled to reduce prices because if push
comes to shove Safcom can
say their data is strictly running on the
(private) SEACOM cable which is
exempt from all the regulatory pressures. It can
chose to say TEAMS is
simply it back-up route.
Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here
and its going to be very
interesting...
walu.
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Note: The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this email if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated. The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limited disclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequences that may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personal opinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromise or damage the integrity of the recipient’s information technology systems. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately delete this email from your system.Unless expressly stated by a duly authorised officer of Safaricom Limited nothing contained in this email message may be construed as being an offer to contract or an acceptance of an offer capable of constituting a contract between Safaricom Limited and any recipient(s) of this email.
participants (9)
-
aki -
Bill Kagai -
Catherine Adeya -
Gakuru Alex -
Maliti, Tom -
Michael Joseph -
Onyango Hatari -
Sam Gatere -
Walubengo J