From the comments I have read on CS & MSPs, I believe Bill's point is

Hi, I believe the feeling by some members is that the KIP project and the KICTANet process need to be clear on whether a merger of email lists means a merger of processes & project plans. - If the merge of e-mail discussion list does not mean a merger of two projects/processes, then the answer is go-ahead. - If it means we merge processes, then let's first find out why KIP & KICTANet should be one (other than avoiding the duplication of emails). KICTANet has an evolving structure and plan of work. What is the KIP project up to? If those two differ, then merger would not be prudent. Is there anyone in a position to clarify the issues above? that private sector lobby groups (TESPOK, CSK, KIF et. al.) should not be considered as 'civil society'.and that KICTANet is not 'civil society' but rather, a 'multistakeholder forum' for CS, private sector et. al. to develop common positions and partnerships for action. Regards Wainaina What is civil society meant to bring to the ICT policy and implementation processes in Kenya? (Adapted from APC's (Karen Banks) CS presentation in Tokyo, May 2005) Civil Society provides "a space between the market & the State". Neither private sector nor government can play this role. The role of civil society within KICTANet and other processes shall include: - Accountability: keep political & market forces accountable to the needs of all members of society - Transparency: encourage social responsibility and good governance practice - People versus profit: advocate for development of social projects & activities that are critical but may not be 'fashionable' or profitable - Civil Society values: shaping vision of human-centred information societies based on human rights, sustainable development, social justice & empowerment -----Original Message----- From: bounce-kiplist-cl-117112@lyris.idrc.ca [mailto:bounce-kiplist-cl-117112@lyris.idrc.ca] On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 27 September 2005 10:45 To: KIPlist Cc: lelder@idrc.ca; lkirkham@idrc.or.ke Subject: Re: List Merger/amalgamation my suggestion is that the lists should be merged Brian On 27 Sep 2005, at 02:56, John Walubengo wrote:

Unbelievably to the point. These examples from Bill can never be any better...I now know what Civil Society should really be about...

My only problem is that I am not sure whether we have resolved the original issue:- Should we merge, cooperate or patner the two lists?

Either way, I must confess that I am glad that the issue has raised more questions than answers...

walu.

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Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> 09/26/05 07:26PM >>>

On 9/26/05, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:

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Hi Bill,

I agree with you that "organizations representing or improving the environment where private sector interests thrive cannot [necessarily] be justified as Civil Society". However I do not agree with your assertion that these organizations "do not care and neither would they address the social implications of their direct actions. " This is a very strong but wrong statement. The majority of successful organizations in the private sector run well documented social responsibilty programs, unless I have mis-understood you.

Hi Waudo,

You got me wrong!! Let me use two or three examples to illustrate my point on social implications.

1. We know that internet exchange points have been established, fibre has been rolled around the metropolis, direct VSATs licensed...and realistically...though debatable, internet costs should go down. Has this happened?? No!! Because we cannot expect organisations fighting regulatory and licensing affairs to also fight the battle for consumers. Real Civil Society has to take up the issue of pushing for consumer protection in a multi-stakeholder environment to force a price reduction.

2. When a mobile telephone company at any one time holds kshs 9.00 from each subscriber in their 3.1 million subscriber base..at any one time, that translates to kshs 27,900,000 at any one time. Whilst the mobile company might have good reasons for that, perhaps Civil Society can lobby that the interest accruing from that account is used to champion ICT or any other humanitarian rights equivalent to that amount. Telecommunication organisations might champion other interests but certainly not those that are in direct conflict with those of their members.

These are just but two fallacies (by example) that only true Civil Society can champion...if the proper support goes to the right organisations. But again, they are hypothetical.

[No persons are meant to be hurt in these examples and all characters are fictitious. Any resemblance to an entity that fits the description is purely by coincidence and any insinuation is highly regretted.]

--- Submitted by: Bildad Kagia <billkagai@gmail.com> 2005-09-26 12:31:37 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo@kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist- cl-102682Q@lyris.idrc.ca

--- Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo@kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-27 01:50:56 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [brian@pure-id.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist- cl-91321D@lyris.idrc.ca

-- Brian Longwe Tel: +254 20 316171 Chief Executive Officer Cell:+254 722 518744 InHand Limited Fax: +254 20 350157 Sharp Centre, Wambui Rd PO Box 43042-00100 Muthaiga, Nairobi http://www.inhand.co.ke KENYA Putting the world in your hand --- Submitted by: brian@inhand.co.ke 2005-09-27 02:46:48 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [wainaina.mungai@oneworld.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-117112D@lyris.idrc.ca