Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems
Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
Interesting, though I suppose that Safaricom has lots of vendor equipment apart from Cisco... -- Josiah Mugambi On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Okech <[email protected]> wrote:
Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on
On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@ Okech, Yawe, CISCO equipment supports BOTH open and closed/proprietary standards. Meaning a Cisco router can connect in a proprietary manner and/or open-standard manner (just enable the appropriate protocol). Same goes for Juniper routers and other leading vendors. Nobody - even the diehard M$oft makes closed systems anymore because that locks you out of the market (self-destructive). I tend to think the problem is not Cisco. Problem could be that Safcom Engineers have not been briefed sufficiently ;-) Finally, speaking from the teaching perspective...It is no longer just about teaching the principles. It is about teach BOTH principles and the application (read vendor-based-examples). walu. --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Okech <[email protected]> wrote: From: Okech <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:50 PM Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi, Hi Walu but I feel you misinterpreted by post, the issue is not the implementation of the standards but more the method of teaching where you concentrate on vendor specific implementations. A student needs to be knowledgeable enough on the basics to be able to quickly get up to speed with different vendors equipment. If this is not done then we are short changing our students and the larger workplace, this vendor specific training is what is affecting our developers who get vendor specific training from day one. What I am saying is that like with a college of accountancy that trains generic accounting we need to do the same with IT based training and in this instance routing and its related applications. I await the day when an advertisement for recruitment of an accountant requires only proficiency in Quickbooks or SAP and not an CPA or ACCA certification. A service provider in the current environment cannot afford to require specific vendor equipment for use by their clients as in my case an insistence on a Cisco router what if I prefer Juniper or D-Link does it then mean Safaricom will not be able to provide me with the service? Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 4 June, 2011 15:33:40 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems @ Okech, Yawe, CISCO equipment supports BOTH open and closed/proprietary standards. Meaning a Cisco router can connect in a proprietary manner and/or open-standard manner (just enable the appropriate protocol). Same goes for Juniper routers and other leading vendors. Nobody - even the diehard M$oft makes closed systems anymore because that locks you out of the market (self-destructive). I tend to think the problem is not Cisco. Problem could be that Safcom Engineers have not been briefed sufficiently ;-) Finally, speaking from the teaching perspective...It is no longer just about teaching the principles. It is about teach BOTH principles and the application (read vendor-based-examples). walu. --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Okech <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Okech <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:50 PM
Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on
On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system
as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need
to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only
be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them
the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL
compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the
corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as
well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles
that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I feel that Open Systems is the role of the university really. If Safaricom is heavy on Cisco, it only makes sense to invest in that particular training. Safaricom train staff to operate *Safaricom's* network not other open systems etc. If Safaricom were to make the shift from proprietary systems to Open systems it would then make sense for them to train the graduates in ubiquitous systems... It may not be an agreeable choice but it makes business sense, whether it's sustainable in the longer term is another kettle of fish altogether.... On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:07 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Hi Walu but I feel you misinterpreted by post, the issue is not the implementation of the standards but more the method of teaching where you concentrate on vendor specific implementations.
A student needs to be knowledgeable enough on the basics to be able to quickly get up to speed with different vendors equipment. If this is not done then we are short changing our students and the larger workplace, this vendor specific training is what is affecting our developers who get vendor specific training from day one.
What I am saying is that like with a college of accountancy that trains generic accounting we need to do the same with IT based training and in this instance routing and its related applications. I await the day when an advertisement for recruitment of an accountant requires only proficiency in Quickbooks or SAP and not an CPA or ACCA certification.
A service provider in the current environment cannot afford to require specific vendor equipment for use by their clients as in my case an insistence on a Cisco router what if I prefer Juniper or D-Link does it then mean Safaricom will not be able to provide me with the service?
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
------------------------------ *From:* Walubengo J <[email protected]> *To:* [email protected]
*Cc:* [email protected] *Sent:* Sat, 4 June, 2011 15:33:40
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems
@ Okech, Yawe,
CISCO equipment supports BOTH open and closed/proprietary standards. Meaning a Cisco router can connect in a proprietary manner and/or open-standard manner (just enable the appropriate protocol). Same goes for Juniper routers and other leading vendors.
Nobody - even the diehard M$oft makes closed systems anymore because that locks you out of the market (self-destructive). I tend to think the problem is not Cisco. Problem could be that Safcom Engineers have not been briefed sufficiently ;-)
Finally, speaking from the teaching perspective...It is no longer just about teaching the principles. It is about teach BOTH principles and the application (read vendor-based-examples).
walu.
--- On *Fri, 6/3/11, Okech <[email protected]>* wrote:
From: Okech <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:50 PM
Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on
On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in
equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: [email protected] | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Hi, Safaricom's back-end is there own business, but its in their best interest to make sure that they can interconnect seamlessly with other vendor equipment as client premises equipment (CPE). Restricting their skill set to a specific vendor and then forcing down the same to their clients is similar to running a petrol station and insisting that you will only sell fuel to Toyota cars or a TV station that insists they broadcast their signal directly. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 6 June, 2011 10:13:29 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems I feel that Open Systems is the role of the university really. If Safaricom is heavy on Cisco, it only makes sense to invest in that particular training. Safaricom train staff to operate *Safaricom's* network not other open systems etc. If Safaricom were to make the shift from proprietary systems to Open systems it would then make sense for them to train the graduates in ubiquitous systems... It may not be an agreeable choice but it makes business sense, whether it's sustainable in the longer term is another kettle of fish altogether.... On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:07 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: Hi,
Hi Walu but I feel you misinterpreted by post, the issue is not the implementation of the standards but more the method of teaching where you concentrate on vendor specific implementations.
A student needs to be knowledgeable enough on the basics to be able to quickly get up to speed with different vendors equipment. If this is not done then we are short changing our students and the larger workplace, this vendor specific training is what is affecting our developers who get vendor specific training from day one.
What I am saying is that like with a college of accountancy that trains generic accounting we need to do the same with IT based training and in this instance routing and its related applications. I await the day when an advertisement for recruitment of an accountant requires only proficiency in Quickbooks or SAP and not an CPA or ACCA certification.
A service provider in the current environment cannot afford to require specific vendor equipment for use by their clients as in my case an insistence on a Cisco router what if I prefer Juniper or D-Link does it then mean Safaricom will not be able to provide me with the service?
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Walubengo J <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 4 June, 2011 15:33:40
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems
@ Okech, Yawe,
CISCO equipment supports BOTH open and closed/proprietary standards. Meaning a Cisco router can connect in a proprietary manner and/or open-standard manner (just enable the appropriate protocol). Same goes for Juniper routers and other leading vendors.
Nobody - even the diehard M$oft makes closed systems anymore because that locks you out of the market (self-destructive). I tend to think the problem is not Cisco. Problem could be that Safcom Engineers have not been briefed sufficiently ;-)
Finally, speaking from the teaching perspective...It is no longer just about teaching the principles. It is about teach BOTH principles and the application (read vendor-based-examples).
walu.
--- On Fri, 6/3/11, Okech <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Okech <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Safaricom abhors open systems To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:50 PM
Robert, This a splendid advise both to parents, teachers, industrialist and students. However, I tend to believe that the idea is not new. The question is why are people glued to vendor specific courses, Cisco has conquered the world through a superb marketing strategy. To oust them thus requires a radical strategy that I leave for the listers to deliberate on
On Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM PDT robert yawe wrote:
Hi Listers,
I have always said that it is wrong to train IT students on proprietary system
as is happening with Cisco training that is being offered as a career path. Switching and routing principles are based on an open standard so students need
to have an appreciation of the technology and not a brand.
I have been having an interesting exchange with Safaricom on setting up a connection to their SMSC where their engineers insist that the solution can only
be implemented using a Cisco router.
From this experience it is clear that most of the engineers at Safaricom have
been trained on vendor specific and proprietary standards which has denied them
the flexibility to work with none Cisco equipment.
Safaricom has been a proponent of open systems by being open to various handsets, so it is shocking that as they move towards becoming a data service
provider they are opting to close their systems.
This attitude by Safaricom reminds me of Orange and their Livebox fiasco that
totally killed their broadband service yet all they had to do was allow any DSL
compliant equipment to be used on their network and used the funds tied in equipment on advertising and any other activity.
I hope this is just a hiccup in their transition and that we shall see a more
open minded organisation as they move towards being a serious contender in the
corporate data provision service.
For those of you with children or relatives basing their carriers on proprietary technologies please advice them to acquire generic education as
well otherwise they might find opportunities passing them by, its the principles
that matter. Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: [email protected] | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
participants (5)
-
Josiah Mugambi -
Okech -
Phares Kariuki -
robert yawe -
Walubengo J