Great suggestions, I feel we can support the media but not in-toto. First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players. Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues. I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue. Wainaina On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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Dear all, K24 will air the interview I moderated with Harun Ndubi (lawyer & Chairman of Shelter Forum, etc) and Alex Gakuru (Kenya ICT Consumers Association). Tune in to K24 at 6:00pm today with several repeats of the same tomorrow morning. Details will be circulated. Wainaina On 1/5/09, John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Am watching the situation as it evolves - like many of you are. I did read Ndubi's earlier postings and I think they were quite balanced.

I am aware of the fury and anger from the media - but frankly speaking, I somewhat regret (truly remorseful) that am unable to share their fear (despite the bombardment). Could it be because am relatively thrilled with offerings in the ICT section at the expense of the 'disaster' that awaits us within the Broadcast section? Plse someone, tell me once more...

Am watching the situation as it evolves...

walu. nb: On a lighter note, Thabo Mbeki, former President, S.Africa signed their eTransaction Bill - electronically with his Digital Signature - I wonder if our man at hill did the same ;-)

--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:

...

From: Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:51 PM Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have

...

went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues

...

miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote: the bill signed. We even through the the Monty Hall

...

...

then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>

...

changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without

Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, proves that prior knowledge.

...

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media

...

are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on

personalities who I know the Kenya Communications

...

...

...

Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

...

This message was sent to: billkagai@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at

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TWITTER - http://www.twitter.com/bungesms

KABISSA.org - http://www.kabissa.org/about/news/member-spotlight-made-kenya-network

KAMPALA Workshop presentation - http://m4d.kcl.co.ug/sites/default/files/presentations/BungeSMS_MadeinKenyaN...

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Throughout the deliberations and of all the critiques about this comm. amendm. bill I have read, I have never come across anybody from this, well, ict sector, point out anything wrong with that bill or how it is dangerous to broadcasting, media freedom, democracy or privacy or freedom of expression. The ict sector is basically commerce driven, and motivated by selfish interests period. Unless it acquits itself of that tag or shows at least some passing interest in public good, I don't see much sense n the prodigious lamentations. And am not defending the press for its failings, which are not few. Its a matter of which is the fair devil to keep. For me, I would stand firm and preserve the media even with its folllies. Ict didn't help rescue this country from bad governance, corruption and tyranny. The media, or the more resilient sections, did and continue to. I can't see any replacement for it, esp in our current political situation. David Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: alice <alice@apc.org> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for. What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point. best alice p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: billkagai@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/billkagai%40gmail.com

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Muraya, I must disagree with your "education" right away. ICT folks should not begin to engage in the sort of partial arguments that the govt has tried to purvey from ps to president. First, there is no doubt that ict can aid, and even spur, good governance. But it is only a tool, however novel it can be. What is the point of havig a tool you cant use toa chieve the means of governance because you can't, after all, disseminate the information so gathered because the law prihibits it? More importantly, i shoud, disabuse anyone fo the notion that the media oppposed the entire bill's enactment. That position can only be extrapolated or inferred. It got to that point because someone - govt - was falshing the strawman argument you have just employed that after all, section 88 was not part of the amendment bill. Excuse me! Why wasn't it among the sections amended? Why should the govt define for us the field within which to play by deciding, aribtrarily and selectively, what sections of the Act to amend or leave intact to suit its whims? The argument from our end is that since this bill was amending the Act of 1998, why was the worst section of the same act being left intact when it had obviously been abused (as in the raid on The Standard Group,using mercenaries no less!). To argue that it was not part of the amendment is harkening to tired govt propaganda and duplicity. What the media asked for was an additional amendment brought in by the parliamentary committee (which had bought the idea), to repeal sect 88 and make it part of the amendment bill that Kibaki signed into law. Plus the manyn other clauses that tocuh on the independence of the commission, it being appointed exclusively by the minister (from our history such commissions end up suffering credibility crises?) After all, if you have read the preamble to the Bill (now Act) it said very clearly that this was a BIll for AN ACT of Parliament to amend the Kenya Communications Act, 1998, to make minor amendments to other statute law, and for connected purposes. We are not going to relent in the purusit of the right law for the media in this country. David "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 --- On Mon, 1/5/09, S.Murigi Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com> wrote:

From: S.Murigi Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law To: dmakali@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 11:19 AM Maybe we should start educating media practitioners on how e-transactions contribute to transparency in governance, trade and reduce crime and corruption - without any propaganda (half truths) that can cause civil war for that matter. The media did a very good job in pointing out what was wrong with the bill while we focused on what was right with it. We support both media freedom and regulation and rejecting the amendment bill was not going to get section 88 deleted now.

Our media professionals know best what our politicians are up to. Is it not better to have e-transactions codified in Kenyan law while waiting for sanity to prevail?

...

Throughout the deliberations and of all the critiques about this comm. amendm. bill I have read, I have never come across anybody from this, well, ict sector, point out anything wrong with that bill or how it is dangerous to broadcasting, media freedom, democracy or privacy or freedom of expression. The ict sector is basically commerce driven, and motivated by selfish interests period. Unless it acquits itself of that tag or shows at least some passing interest in public good, I don't see much sense n the

...

David

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: alice <alice@apc.org>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic

dmakali@yahoo.com wrote: prodigious lamentations. And am not defending the press for its failings, which are not few. Its a matter of which is the fair devil to keep. For me, I would stand firm and preserve the media even with its folllies. Ict didn't help rescue this country from bad governance, corruption and tyranny. The media, or the more resilient sections, did and continue to. I can't see any replacement for it, esp in our current political situation. perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

...

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that

will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

...

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of

the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let

...

...

"Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if

...

...

valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring

...

...

...

the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However,

...

...

...

out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to

...

...

...

miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in

...

...

...

whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall

Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>,

...

then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>

...

...

...

changing the decision increases the

...

...

...

66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in

go of the negative their arguments are the birth water together with the Media completely blacked the issues through the the very fast legal opinion proves that probability of getting it 'right' to the media achieve 'State of

...

...

...

Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

---

...

...

...

...

kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

...

This message was sent to:

billkagai@gmail.com

...

Unsubscribe or change your options at

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/billkagai%40gmail.com

...

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The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself. Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

My best understanding is that they used to call it 'convergence' but nowadays its referred to as the 'Networked Communication Envrionment' see Layer model presentation by Lisa Horner <http://www.freedomofexpression.org.uk/files/layer_model_nairobi_Lisa_Horner.ppt> (thus sorry Waundo I doubt how far back we could revert to 'stand-alone' legislation approaches?) for examples, what law would govern a webcaster? 'broadcasting' or 'telecommunications'? If 'telecommunication' would it be a 'mobile' or 'wireline' law? How about an online newspaper vs. it's printed version? etc.. etc.. And given the lengthy legislative processes, when would all those laws be enacted, piecemeal? In upholding Public Interest see <http://www.freedomofexpression.org.uk/resources/public+interest+principles+for+the+networked+communications+environment> regards, Alex On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our protestations. I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

> We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications > Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. > > Wainaina > > > >

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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Barrak, On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be having some answers though your answers are too complicated :) Let the debate continue

ok a suggestion,,, to make things easier, I propose you + Makali + Walu + Wainaina as co-moderators on a (week-long?) online discussion on the Act;) This way we shall all chip in our opinion on every section. Why dya say buddy? other listers views? regards, Alex

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our protestations. I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

> Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. > Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about > this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time > with government to introduce legislation for the sector? > > best > alice > > Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya. > >> We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications >> Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. >> >> Wainaina >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: billkagai@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/billkagai%40gmail.com > >

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

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Hi,   I agree with Alex's suggestion. We need a sober discussion devoid of the emotions and propaganda (power?) war between govt and media to understand the whole Act and not just the contentious broadcast section.   Regards,   Jotham K. Mwale --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote: From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law To: jokilimo@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 7:14 PM Barrak, On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be having some answers though your answers are too complicated :) Let the debate continue

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have

...

China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our

...

I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next)

...

...

Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of

...

...

Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I

...

...

understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the

...

...

this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop

...

...

...

reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic

...

...

...

is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end

...

...

...

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of

...

...

...

...

"Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy

...

...

...

...

a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have

...

...

...

...

...

went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and

...

...

...

...

...

Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>,

...

then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media

ok a suggestion,,, to make things easier, I propose you + Makali + Walu + Wainaina as co-moderators on a (week-long?) online discussion on the Act;) This way we shall all chip in our opinion on every section. Why dya say buddy? other listers views? regards, Alex personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! protestations. postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? this think I public: the "media bill" perspective. it point. the negative personalities to the bill signed. We even the Monty Hall personalities who I know

...

...

...

...

...

are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

> Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. > Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about > this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time > with government to introduce legislation for the sector? > > best > alice > > Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya. > >> We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications >> Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. >> >> Wainaina >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: billkagai@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/billkagai%40gmail.com > >

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http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c...

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

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All, Matters of representation still remain an issue of concern in Kenya. Mps mis-represent the constituents, people comments are not fully represented in the ongoing discussions; i.e. KCA among others, Its evident that ONLY Nairobians can tell at least what is happening as reception of even radio broadcasting stations in most parts of the Country is poor, this is one of the things the officials at the Media councill should also address. This still questions on representation. Can we get to working????????? Regards Loa.  ________________________________ From: Akich Kwach <kwach@archway-productions.com> To: jlobore@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 12:14:33 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law Hi All, I think it is time time we stopped blaiming our brother and sisters from the media. It is said that if you were in their shoes, you would be shouting loudest like them. I believe they have a point and I do agree with Dorcas Muthoni, the style or approach by the media team might be the problem. As they seek for freedom, they have to be visionery. I am reminded of the wise advice by Lyndon  Johnson, a former US president  "You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered." To set the records straight, I do support the signing of the Bill and the rest of the amendments can be lobbied for later. It is sad the Wanjikus, Atienos and Moraas outside Nairobi would find it difficult to know the benefits the new law carries because the same media that should have passed the message is still in a "mourning period". How can we help spread the message? I look forward to the discussions as stated by Walu Akich Kwach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: <kwach@archway-productions.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be having some answers though your answers are too complicated :) Let the debate continue On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM,  <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy.  But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail.  Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our protestations. I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM,  <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!?   Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications  (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the  "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications  (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs,  in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, >> ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together >> with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the >> drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his >> legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely >> blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. >> We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal >> opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger >> wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them >> simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar >> with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author >> and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, >> was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves >> that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' >> to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content >> and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State >> of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some >> head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior >> knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who >> I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your >> media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT >> [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not >> good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or >> not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this >> bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think >>> about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long >>> time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

  Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

> We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications > Act and support whatever  amendments may be justified. > > Wainaina > > > >

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kwach@archway-productions.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kwach%40archway-product... _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jlobore@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jlobore%40yahoo.com

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is

China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our

I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial

...

Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next)

...

Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of

...

Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I

...

understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the

...

this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are

...

the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic

...

...

is important that the communications "sector" adapts to

...

...

convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy

...

...

...

a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, >> ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together >> with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the >> drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his >> legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely >> blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. >> We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues

...

...

...

...

miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal >> opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger >> wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them >> simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar >> with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall

Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>,

...

then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author >> and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, >> was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves >> that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' >> to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content >> and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State >> of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some >> head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without

...

...

...

...

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media

...

...

...

...

are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your >> media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT >> [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not >> good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or >> not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this >> bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think >>> about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long >>> time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

> We can now look at the Media's concerns on

Hi All,   Just came across this view of our Act from Media Council of Tanzania.   http://www.dailynews.habarileo.co.tz/magazine/index.php?id=9330   Interesting.   Regards,   Jotham K. Mwale --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Akich Kwach <kwach@archway-productions.com> wrote: From: Akich Kwach <kwach@archway-productions.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law To: jokilimo@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:14 AM Hi All, I think it is time time we stopped blaiming our brother and sisters from the media. It is said that if you were in their shoes, you would be shouting loudest like them. I believe they have a point and I do agree with Dorcas Muthoni, the style or approach by the media team might be the problem. As they seek for freedom, they have to be visionery. I am reminded of the wise advice by Lyndon Johnson, a former US president "You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered." To set the records straight, I do support the signing of the Bill and the rest of the amendments can be lobbied for later. It is sad the Wanjikus, Atienos and Moraas outside Nairobi would find it difficult to know the benefits the new law carries because the same media that should have passed the message is still in a "mourning period". How can we help spread the message? I look forward to the discussions as stated by Walu Akich Kwach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: <kwach@archway-productions.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be having some answers though your answers are too complicated :) Let the debate continue On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote: the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! protestations. licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? this think I public: those that perspective. it this global personalities to through the prior >> knowledge. personalities who >> I know the Kenya Communications

...

...

...

...

...

> Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. > > Wainaina > > > >

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...

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kwach@archway-productions.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kwach%40archway-product... _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jokilimo@yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jokilimo%40yahoo.com

The Presidential directive to Hon. Poghisio & Hon. Amos Wako has set the pace for a new engagement strategy. Let's hope it brings to an end the "drama queen" strategy used by media owners so far. The media owners will need to present well thought-out memoranda devoid of propanganda. I hope they are ready to engage in the same way as the ICT sector did. The proposals by media owners must be subjected to objective debate in the longterm interests of the nation. Wainaina On 1/7/09, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina@madeinkenya.org> wrote:

It sounds like Tanzania has a very objective Media Council.

They recognise that the law is abit too tough but they believe the Kenyan media brought it upon themselves when they failed to self-regulate.

Through the one-sided campaign, it is clear that the media has no intention to implement true self-regulation. Individual media houses are now setting standards and walking away from the biased "group mind" approach to issues.

Let's hope that Kenya's Media Council will learn from Tanzanians.

Wainaina

On 1/7/09, Jotham Kilimo Mwale <jokilimo@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Hi All,

Just came across this view of our Act from Media Council of Tanzania.

http://www.dailynews.habarileo.co.tz/magazine/index.php?id=9330

Interesting.

Regards,

Jotham K. Mwale

--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Akich Kwach <kwach@archway-productions.com> wrote:

From: Akich Kwach <kwach@archway-productions.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law To: jokilimo@yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:14 AM

Hi All,

I think it is time time we stopped blaiming our brother and sisters from the media. It is said that if you were in their shoes, you would be shouting loudest like them. I believe they have a point and I do agree with Dorcas Muthoni, the style or approach by the media team might be the problem. As they seek for freedom, they have to be visionery. I am reminded of the wise advice by Lyndon Johnson, a former US president "You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered."

To set the records straight, I do support the signing of the Bill and the rest of the amendments can be lobbied for later. It is sad the Wanjikus, Atienos and Moraas outside Nairobi would find it difficult to know the benefits the new law carries because the same media that should have passed the message is still in a "mourning period". How can we help spread the message?

I look forward to the discussions as stated by Walu

Akich Kwach

----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: <kwach@archway-productions.com> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be having some answers though your answers are too complicated :) Let the debate continue

...

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is

...

China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our

...

I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial

...

...

Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next)

...

...

Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case

...

...

Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of

...

...

Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I

...

...

understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the

...

...

this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are

...

...

the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic

...

...

...

is important that the communications "sector" adapts to

...

...

...

convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy

...

...

...

...

a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

> The 4 fundamentals; > > 1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, >> ICT > sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together >> with > the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the >> drain. > And I think that was what many of us were asking for. > > 2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his >> legal > opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely >> blacked > out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. >> We even > went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues

...

...

...

...

> miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal >> opinion > whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous. > > 3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger >> wo/man > by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media > looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them >> simply > because they refused to side with us in our campaign. > > 4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar >> with > Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall > Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, > then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. > 4a) Sign Bill > 4b) Don't Sign Bill > 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense. > > Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, > assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author >> and > had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, >> was it > wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? > Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves >> that > changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' >> to > 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content >> and > support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State >> of > Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some >> head-up > before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without

...

...

...

...

> > Conclusion; > For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media

...

...

...

...

> are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your >> media > stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT >> [not > Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not >> good?? > This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or >> not, > since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this >> bill. We > did and the buck should stop with us!!! > > -- > Bildad Kagai > MD - MediaCorp Limited > Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor > Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue > P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 > Nairobi, Kenya > Tel. 254 20 272 8332 > Fax. Rendered Obsolete > S - 1°17'13.8" > E - 36°48'22.7" > www.mediacorp.co.ke > --- > > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote: > > >> Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. >> Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think >>> about >> this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long >>> time >> with government to introduce legislation for the sector? >> >> best >> alice >> >> Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya. >> >>> We can now look at the Media's concerns on

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote: the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! protestations. licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. this think I public: those that perspective. it this global personalities to through the prior >> knowledge. personalities who >> I know the Kenya Communications

...

...

...

...

>>> Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. >>> >>> Wainaina >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: billkagai@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/billkagai%40gmail.com >> >>

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: kwach@archway-productions.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kwach%40archway-product...

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I believe if journalists/media invested more in professionalism, you would have more friends. I personally believe you went calling for such legislation. The spectrum, on which broadcasting runs, is a public resource, i must remind everyone. The government has full responsibility in ensuring that a public resource is consistently used for public good. A private enterprise, such as a broadcaster, riding on a public infrastructure, must conform with expected standards, otherwise, control or whatever you may call it, will be placed on you. I guess we all know about the matatu industry, chaos, recklessness, cartels, mungiki etc.., when the going gets tough, they all come calling on the government. I guess its the high time the media devised other constructive engagement strategies to get what they want other than trying dirty tricks they have used in the past. Makali, if you can prove to me that the media consistently speaks for us/public without vested interests, i would join you in the next march to parliament to demand an amendment. Simply, change tact and get what you want. I recently asked a journalist where they see Nairobi in 30 years, would it be like todays Tokyo, New York or Zurich? What image are they putting in our minds when they feed us with their content. Do they think they are building or destroying. Preaching hope or despair, promoting peace or conflict? The famous journalist did not have an answer. I hope the media will think about using their role more positively and giving the mwananchi hope. I have heard some media people claim they put governments in power and could very well put them out of power. A more constructive thing would be to remind mwananchi that the destiny of this country remains in the hands of each and everyone. Borrow a leaf from the ICT sector, the lobbying for greater capacity for Internal bandwidth is about to land three sub-marine cables into Kenya. The government has been a key sponsor of this project. Could the MOA tell us a little more on their plans for digital broadcasting and how they are constructively engaging the MoICT to move Kenya to the next level in terms of broadcasting. On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy. But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail. Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our protestations. I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David

Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use

...

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial

...

Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next)

...

Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger

...

Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves

...

...

...

...

changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote: licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!? postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. that head-up

...

...

...

...

before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

> We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications > Act and support whatever amendments may be justified. > > Wainaina > > > >

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-- Muthoni My Blog: http://rugongo.blogspot.com/ -------------------------------------------- Mahatma Gandhi once said:- First they ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, AND THEN YOU WIN!!!

Media coverage is also what the Media owners / media council shouls look act. Havinmg used the public resources, then all Kenyans should be able to received information aired irrespective of geographical coverage. regards, Loa.   ________________________________ From: Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni@gmail.com> To: jlobore@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 8:56:43 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law I believe if journalists/media invested more in professionalism, you would have more friends. I personally believe you went calling for such legislation. The spectrum, on which broadcasting runs, is a public resource, i must remind everyone. The government has full responsibility in ensuring that a public resource is consistently used for public good. A private enterprise, such as a broadcaster, riding on a public infrastructure, must conform with expected standards, otherwise, control or whatever you may call it, will be placed on you. I guess we all know about the matatu industry, chaos, recklessness, cartels, mungiki etc.., when the going gets tough, they all come calling on the government. I guess its the high time the media devised other constructive engagement strategies to get what they want other than trying dirty tricks they have used in the past. Makali, if you can prove to me that the media consistently speaks for us/public without vested interests, i would join you in the next march to parliament to demand an amendment. Simply, change tact and get what you want. I recently asked a journalist where they see Nairobi in 30 years, would it be like todays Tokyo, New York or Zurich? What image are they putting in our minds when they feed us with their content. Do they think they are building or destroying. Preaching hope or despair, promoting peace or conflict? The famous journalist did not have an answer. I hope the media will think about using their role more positively and giving the mwananchi hope. I have heard some media people claim they put governments in power and could very well put them out of power. A more constructive thing would  be to remind mwananchi that the destiny of this country remains in the hands of each and everyone. Borrow a leaf from the ICT sector, the lobbying for greater capacity for Internal bandwidth is about to land three sub-marine cables into Kenya. The government has been a key sponsor of this project. Could the MOA tell us a little more on their plans for digital broadcasting and how they are constructively engaging the MoICT to move Kenya to the next level in terms of broadcasting. On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote: Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy.  But that's it. So is freedom of speech and access to information. And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail.  Which? How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues out of that desperation! China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our protestations. I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps. David Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law Bwana Makali, I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana makali repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of problems and they need to be put into use On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM,  <dmakali@yahoo.com> wrote:

The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!?  Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal? Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning. Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end. Jog your memory. David Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00 To: <dmakali@yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications  (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the  "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications  (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs,  in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

 Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever  amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254726544442 +254733206359 www.issenconsult.com http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: dmuthoni@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com -- Muthoni My Blog: http://rugongo.blogspot.com/ -------------------------------------------- Mahatma Gandhi once said:- First they ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, AND THEN YOU WIN!!!

Dear Waudo and all, I hear you on this and it has been my position that convergence is a good thing but its only happening in technology and not law and therefore developing a convergence law was definitely going to pose major challenges, not just of acceptance but even its implementation. Having said that, I think Waudo is right again that we should be bold enough and seek a separate ministry for ICT that will be responsible for anything ICT in the country. This will bring all the agencies that are currently existing under one roof. I have in mind CCK, NCS, ICT Board, Directorate of eGov (OP), GITS (Treasury). And in this we propose to have a legally constituted consumer consultative board to look at consumer issues in the sector. Kindest regards Harry On 1/5/09 6:35 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote:

Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of this Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the "ICT Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications (Amendment) Bill 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I think I understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the public: this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that in future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to reach a stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory development processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do with ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this Law had successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions legislation simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT. For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an ICT only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had a Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be revived to focus on the interests of our media brothers. Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT" are those that the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be seen, even trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.

Waudo On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice" <alice@apc.org> said:

...

I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop the "media bill" reference. It is the Kenya Communications (Amendment) bill 2008, which covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic perspective. it is important that the communications "sector" adapts to this global convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for expansion of universal access to ICTs, in terms of reducing costs while stimulating economic and social growth. This can only be done through appropriate ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides for.

What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will come with this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end point.

best alice

p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.

...

Great suggestions,

I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.

First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of the negative "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively with other players.

Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy personalities to a forum where they can share how ICT issues have successfully been incorporated without the animosity that is common when advocating for media issues.

I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their arguments are valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by issue.

Wainaina

On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The 4 fundamentals;

1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT sector players felt this was akin to pouring the birth water together with the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did not go down the drain. And I think that was what many of us were asking for.

2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the Media completely blacked out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have the bill signed. We even went out of the way to show the remedies to the issues through the miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very fast legal opinion whose author requested we keep his/her identity anonymous.

3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man by showing solidarity in the front-line with our cousins in the Media looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply because they refused to side with us in our campaign.

4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If you are familiar with Newton's method of factoring variable change and the Monty Hall Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>, then we can analyse the options the President had mathematically. 4a) Sign Bill 4b) Don't Sign Bill 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.

Each option had a 33% probability of being the 'right' decision. So, assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he was not the author and had decided not to sign the bill following the Media owners petition, was it wise to change his decision from 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'?? Monty Hall <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that changing the decision increases the probability of getting it 'right' to 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in ICT] feel content and support ways of also making our brothers in the media achieve 'State of Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister of Finance some head-up before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.

Conclusion; For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media personalities who I know are on this list, why don't you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not Media] bill so that we can fight together against what we feel is not good?? This has nothing to do with whether the grand coalition will hold or not, since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We did and the buck should stop with us!!!

-- Bildad Kagai MD - MediaCorp Limited Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue P. O. Box 20311 - 00200 Nairobi, Kenya Tel. 254 20 272 8332 Fax. Rendered Obsolete S - 1°17'13.8" E - 36°48'22.7" www.mediacorp.co.ke ---

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice <alice@apc.org> wrote:

...

Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009. Now that the bill has been signed, what does the ICT industry think about this whole debate? especially those who have worked for such a long time with government to introduce legislation for the sector?

best alice

Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.

...

We can now look at the Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications Act and support whatever amendments may be justified.

Wainaina

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