Re: [kictanet] ICT Bill is not going away
Listers, If ICT has no legal definition, it is then not unreasonable to conclude that what is going on is actually of no legal consequence and is an exercise in futility. John Kariuki. Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Stellar Murumba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Stellar Murumba <nstellarnelly@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Bill is not going away I like Tony's point On Monday, 1 August 2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: John, 'ICT' cannot be simply defined - it is the glue which now binds all aspects of business and personal life. We are ALL 'ICT Practitioners' - which is why the current attempt to legislate must fail. It is as nonsensical as introducing an 'Oxygen Breathers' bill, requiring all breathers of oxygen to be licenced annually with the 'Oxygen Breathers Board' Cheers, Tony On 01/08/2016, ngethe.kariuki2007 via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers, I have in the past on this list intimated that I have yet to find a legal definition of ICT.I have reason to believe that there is none unless advised otherwise by someone knowledgeable on the subject. If my understanding is correct, how then can anyone purport to legislate on a subject which has no legal definition?
John Kariuki
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message -------- From: Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Bill is not going away
Hi Elizabeth,
Its a shame indeed, we have a habit of leaders reaping where they did not sow, i am glad with the new constitutional dispensation there is no room for such leaders who happen to be erstwhile tenderpreneurs who reap at the expense of hardworking innovators, the ICT community should step up its game and say no to such leadership, time to take full control of the sector including the leaders we send to Parliament . Its a pity that the legislators claim they are not in a position to help stakeholders as reported, i think we should send the correct message they normally understand and send them out of bunge using twitter, 2017 is a few months away.
Regards
Regards
On 8/1/16, Elizabeth Rossiello via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I had a very frightening conversation on Thursday, where a self-proclaimed "Tech Person" and leader of a business networking association declared the following:
- "The techies of Kenya were getting out of control and taking over the direction of the country without supervision" - "Private businesses should choose their employees with the help of the government (via this bill's licensing and certification)" - "Kenya is happy to be the only country in the world [besides Ethiopia] with such stringent measures because it is a leader" -"Doctors need to be licensed and so do Techies"
... when I responded that I would have to fire 8 young Kenyan female employees who are well-paid and highly competent because they don't have the appropriate license, they said "the government should be involved in who you can hire."
I was shocked at the misinformation and views. This is akin to the way Trump supporters spew misinformation they receive from Fox News. Most of it seems to stem from a lack of knowledge on what defines a "techie" and what they are and are not capable of. It seems as some people think there is an army of robots about to take over this country from the innocents.
Who has been driving this narrative?
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Watila Alex via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
they are not being honest.
based on the views they have received they can recommend its withdrawal.
regards,
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
On Mon, 1 Aug, 2016 at 9:50, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
http://www.nation.co.ke/business/Our-hands-tied-in-ICT-Bill/996-3324824-5hai...
We need a proper public consultation on this, in the same way as the current Cybercrimes bill, and the recent ICT policy.
Just another thought that has not so far been raised: Engineers are also 'ICT Practitioners', so are some lawyers, so are some doctors, so are many other professions, which each already have their own registration. So they now must ALSO be registered as ICT practitioners?
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Elizabeth Rossiello CEO and Co-Founder *BitPESA* Nigeria: +234 909 345 4135 Kenya: +254 710 891 851 Skype: erossiello
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Tony White _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nstellarnelly%40gmail.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Sent from my iPhone
I think the tenderpreneurs are behind this bill, with the aim to control who gets tenders from the govt, and only legal intervention can stop them. On 1 August 2016 at 18:41, ngethe.kariuki2007 via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers, If ICT has no legal definition, it is then not unreasonable to conclude that what is going on is actually of no legal consequence and is an exercise in futility.
John Kariuki.
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message -------- From: Stellar Murumba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Stellar Murumba <nstellarnelly@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Bill is not going away
I like Tony's point
On Monday, 1 August 2016, Tony White via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
John, 'ICT' cannot be simply defined - it is the glue which now binds all aspects of business and personal life. We are ALL 'ICT Practitioners' - which is why the current attempt to legislate must fail. It is as nonsensical as introducing an 'Oxygen Breathers' bill, requiring all breathers of oxygen to be licenced annually with the 'Oxygen Breathers Board'
Cheers, Tony
Listers, I have in the past on this list intimated that I have yet to find a legal definition of ICT.I have reason to believe that there is none unless advised otherwise by someone knowledgeable on the subject. If my understanding is correct, how then can anyone purport to legislate on a subject which has no legal definition?
John Kariuki
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message -------- From: Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Bill is not going away
Hi Elizabeth,
Its a shame indeed, we have a habit of leaders reaping where they did not sow, i am glad with the new constitutional dispensation there is no room for such leaders who happen to be erstwhile tenderpreneurs who reap at the expense of hardworking innovators, the ICT community should step up its game and say no to such leadership, time to take full control of the sector including the leaders we send to Parliament . Its a pity that the legislators claim they are not in a position to help stakeholders as reported, i think we should send the correct message they normally understand and send them out of bunge using twitter, 2017 is a few months away.
Regards
Regards
On 8/1/16, Elizabeth Rossiello via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
I had a very frightening conversation on Thursday, where a self-proclaimed "Tech Person" and leader of a business networking association declared
following:
- "The techies of Kenya were getting out of control and taking over the direction of the country without supervision" - "Private businesses should choose their employees with the help of
government (via this bill's licensing and certification)" - "Kenya is happy to be the only country in the world [besides Ethiopia] with such stringent measures because it is a leader" -"Doctors need to be licensed and so do Techies"
... when I responded that I would have to fire 8 young Kenyan female employees who are well-paid and highly competent because they don't have the appropriate license, they said "the government should be involved in who you can hire."
I was shocked at the misinformation and views. This is akin to the way Trump supporters spew misinformation they receive from Fox News. Most of it seems to stem from a lack of knowledge on what defines a "techie" and what they are and are not capable of. It seems as some people think
is an army of robots about to take over this country from the innocents.
Who has been driving this narrative?
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Watila Alex via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
they are not being honest.
based on the views they have received they can recommend its withdrawal.
regards,
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
On Mon, 1 Aug, 2016 at 9:50, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
http://www.nation.co.ke/business/Our-hands-tied-in-ICT-Bill/996-3324824-5hai...
We need a proper public consultation on this, in the same way as the current Cybercrimes bill, and the recent ICT policy.
Just another thought that has not so far been raised: Engineers are also 'ICT Practitioners', so are some lawyers, so are some doctors, so are many other professions, which each already have their own registration. So they now must ALSO be registered as ICT practitioners?
-- Tony White
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
On 01/08/2016, ngethe.kariuki2007 via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: the the there platform privacy, do platform privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Elizabeth Rossiello CEO and Co-Founder *BitPESA* Nigeria: +234 909 345 4135 Kenya: +254 710 891 851 Skype: erossiello
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Tony White
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nstellarnelly%40gmail....
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Sent from my iPhone
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
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