Listers. Interesting article. KITOS, hope you are listening... Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector. But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far. Read on http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/... Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
Kenya could have abolished all taxes and levies on ICT products long ago by signing the WTO Information Technology Agreement (htttp://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/inftec_e/inftec_e.htm) but for some reason this appears never to have happened. Presumably the EA Common Tariffs became a complication or maybe there is lack of knowledge about the Agreement. The purpose of the Agreement is for signatory countries to eliminate all forms of levies on ICT products. Two days ago Obama was in China and the biggest news out of that trip is that he managed to get the Chinese to sign onto this Agreement http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbrinkley/2014/11/11/u-s-and-china-agree-to-t... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014, at 05:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
Ali Hussein
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com[1]
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Links: 1. http://www.alyhussein.com/
Waudo Thanks for that information. Very useful. The industry and possibly the ICT Ministry need to come together and lobby the necessary arms of government to ensure that we out brakes on the reverse gears... Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad
On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:58 PM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Kenya could have abolished all taxes and levies on ICT products long ago by signing the WTO Information Technology Agreement (htttp://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/inftec_e/inftec_e.htm) but for some reason this appears never to have happened. Presumably the EA Common Tariffs became a complication or maybe there is lack of knowledge about the Agreement. The purpose of the Agreement is for signatory countries to eliminate all forms of levies on ICT products. Two days ago Obama was in China and the biggest news out of that trip is that he managed to get the Chinese to sign onto this Agreement http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbrinkley/2014/11/11/u-s-and-china-agree-to-t...
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014, at 05:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet wrote: Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
Ali Hussein
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Kenya Airways records Sh12.5bn loss the month that Naikuni leaves ( http://www.businesstoday.co.ke/news/news/1415873413/kq-flies-new-sh125-billi... ). Is he jumping out of a nose-diving plane? I don't envy the new guy, Mr Mbuvi Ngunze. Best Regards, Luke Mulunda Managing Editor www.businesstoday.co.ke Tel: 0722680459 / 0733737337 On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:16 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Waudo Thanks for that information. Very useful. The industry and possibly the ICT Ministry need to come together and lobby the necessary arms of government to ensure that we out brakes on the reverse gears... Ali Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:58 PM, waudo siganga via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Kenya could have abolished all taxes and levies on ICT products long ago by signing the WTO Information Technology Agreement(htttp://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/inftec_e/inftec_e.htm) but for some reason this appears never to have happened. Presumably the EA Common Tariffs became a complication or maybe there is lack of knowledge about the Agreement. The purpose of the Agreement is for signatory countries to eliminate all forms of levies on ICT products. Two days ago Obama was in China and the biggest news out of that trip is that he managed to get the Chinese to sign onto this Agreement http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbrinkley/2014/11/11/u-s-and-china-agree-to-t... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014, at 05:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet wrote: Listers. Interesting article. KITOS, hope you are listening... Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector. But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far. Read on http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/... Hussein +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________kictanet mailing listkictanet@lists.kictanet.or.kehttps://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmulunda%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Listers, Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation? As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off. However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth. Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy. Taxation can and should address that. If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to. Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan ( http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... ) Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no places to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do) So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology. Regards On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/... *Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation. Best Regards On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan ( http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... )
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no places to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/... *Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
My 2 cents on the dumping ground issue: 1. It is more of an import workflow issue than it is a taxation issue. By import workflow this means that are we really evaluating if the products that get to market have the quality assurance? For instance e-waste control policy is a mechanism that has worked. 2. So has it been a dumping ground for things that have revolutionized the market in positive ways. When Huawei IDEOS came in we were amongst the first countries to benefit. More and more people started adopting smart phones and connecting to the grid, which to me is a huge market space created for small to medium enterprise businesses to scale applications and do more business. This was actually much better for the economy. And let us admit it, that phone had and still has good quality feedback from people who have bought it. Ahmed On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
Ahmed, I was involved in a National Workshop at the Kenya Bureu of Standards in September, the Standard should be ready soon. We actually came up with a draft standard that will be used to handle the e- waste challenge and refurbished computers to mitigate the challenge of electronic products being dumped into our market. NEMA is also doing something about the same challenge. Regards On 11/13/14, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy <ultimateprogramer@gmail.com> wrote:
My 2 cents on the dumping ground issue:
1. It is more of an import workflow issue than it is a taxation issue. By import workflow this means that are we really evaluating if the products that get to market have the quality assurance? For instance e-waste control policy is a mechanism that has worked. 2. So has it been a dumping ground for things that have revolutionized the market in positive ways. When Huawei IDEOS came in we were amongst the first countries to benefit. More and more people started adopting smart phones and connecting to the grid, which to me is a huge market space created for small to medium enterprise businesses to scale applications and do more business. This was actually much better for the economy. And let us admit it, that phone had and still has good quality feedback from people who have bought it.
Ahmed
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
Ahmed, Dumping does not necessarily imply low quality. As an example if we open our Sugar importation markets and Zero Rate import duty on Sugar imports, it doesn't mean we will get low quality Sugar from Brazil/Egypt, but there is a chance in short order all the Sugar factories in our western belts will close shop in short order. The Huwaei Ideos is not a bad phone, but maybe its introduction to the market market signed the death warrant for the Gilgil phone manufacturing plant. So what we did is open up our technology importation to anyone who has anything to offer in ICT and I hope we don't get surprised that in 10-20 years we wouldn't have any solid technology industry to talk about. Rgds On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
My 2 cents on the dumping ground issue:
1. It is more of an import workflow issue than it is a taxation issue. By import workflow this means that are we really evaluating if the products that get to market have the quality assurance? For instance e-waste control policy is a mechanism that has worked. 2. So has it been a dumping ground for things that have revolutionized the market in positive ways. When Huawei IDEOS came in we were amongst the first countries to benefit. More and more people started adopting smart phones and connecting to the grid, which to me is a huge market space created for small to medium enterprise businesses to scale applications and do more business. This was actually much better for the economy. And let us admit it, that phone had and still has good quality feedback from people who have bought it.
Ahmed
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
@ Ngigi, Maybe historians like John Walubengo would tell as why and how Gilgil Telecoms Industries was established as well as its successes and failures, this is the only local industry i can think of that i consider a success, any elders on the list to give us a background? Regards On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Ahmed,
Dumping does not necessarily imply low quality.
As an example if we open our Sugar importation markets and Zero Rate import duty on Sugar imports, it doesn't mean we will get low quality Sugar from Brazil/Egypt, but there is a chance in short order all the Sugar factories in our western belts will close shop in short order.
The Huwaei Ideos is not a bad phone, but maybe its introduction to the market market signed the death warrant for the Gilgil phone manufacturing plant.
So what we did is open up our technology importation to anyone who has anything to offer in ICT and I hope we don't get surprised that in 10-20 years we wouldn't have any solid technology industry to talk about.
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
My 2 cents on the dumping ground issue:
1. It is more of an import workflow issue than it is a taxation issue. By import workflow this means that are we really evaluating if the products that get to market have the quality assurance? For instance e-waste control policy is a mechanism that has worked. 2. So has it been a dumping ground for things that have revolutionized the market in positive ways. When Huawei IDEOS came in we were amongst the first countries to benefit. More and more people started adopting smart phones and connecting to the grid, which to me is a huge market space created for small to medium enterprise businesses to scale applications and do more business. This was actually much better for the economy. And let us admit it, that phone had and still has good quality feedback from people who have bought it.
Ahmed
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
Barrack, The rain started beating us when instant gratification became more important than our long-term health. The rain started beating us when the metrics for our success became how many users we have on Twitter, Facebook, Google, MSN as opposed to how many of our products & services are being sold and used in the US, UK, Germany and such markets. I like your example of the Gilgil Telecom plant. Tell me, what would have happened if we had made it as policy that any phone to be sold in the market for less than 20K had to be manufactured / assembled at the Gilgil plant under license? Maybe Samsung, would have balked at the idea, maybe Nokia would have as well, but I can bet you one current phone manufacturer would have taken up the offer. We would have maybe started with really ugly phones (wait, we all started with big ugly phones), but you could bet by now, that firm most likely would be manufacturing competitively for the local market as well as EA market and maybe internationally as well. But, what did we do instead? Over cocktails, graced by most major global telecom executives, we announced to the world that anyone and their 'grandfather' can import phones to our market.; lets open up our markets, lets remove all taxation. What did we get in return a million users on Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and our only phone manufacturing plant closed down for good. That is 'progress', African style. Rgds On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
Indeed Ngigi you couldnt have put it in a better way, In addition the government does'nt seem keen on bringing the sector together to harness our collective energy, i have lost count of how many times i have seen calls on this list for close collaboration between the public and private sector, we started well but some bad manners crept in. If we don't team up we will certainly go down together as a country. Regards On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:
Barrack,
The rain started beating us when instant gratification became more important than our long-term health. The rain started beating us when the metrics for our success became how many users we have on Twitter, Facebook, Google, MSN as opposed to how many of our products & services are being sold and used in the US, UK, Germany and such markets.
I like your example of the Gilgil Telecom plant. Tell me, what would have happened if we had made it as policy that any phone to be sold in the market for less than 20K had to be manufactured / assembled at the Gilgil plant under license?
Maybe Samsung, would have balked at the idea, maybe Nokia would have as well, but I can bet you one current phone manufacturer would have taken up the offer. We would have maybe started with really ugly phones (wait, we all started with big ugly phones), but you could bet by now, that firm most likely would be manufacturing competitively for the local market as well as EA market and maybe internationally as well.
But, what did we do instead? Over cocktails, graced by most major global telecom executives, we announced to the world that anyone and their 'grandfather' can import phones to our market.; lets open up our markets, lets remove all taxation.
What did we get in return a million users on Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and our only phone manufacturing plant closed down for good.
That is 'progress', African style.
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
Ngigi, The fact that a phone from far east (imported from a mass market producer, with shipping costs, thousands of miles away) could cause a local plant not to operate is really not a good indication for us. Again, it is not the taxation policy. Its really about what we need to do as a country to support innovation. And its not only at the policy level, its also in the civilian level. Ahmed On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Barrack,
The rain started beating us when instant gratification became more important than our long-term health. The rain started beating us when the metrics for our success became how many users we have on Twitter, Facebook, Google, MSN as opposed to how many of our products & services are being sold and used in the US, UK, Germany and such markets.
I like your example of the Gilgil Telecom plant. Tell me, what would have happened if we had made it as policy that any phone to be sold in the market for less than 20K had to be manufactured / assembled at the Gilgil plant under license?
Maybe Samsung, would have balked at the idea, maybe Nokia would have as well, but I can bet you one current phone manufacturer would have taken up the offer. We would have maybe started with really ugly phones (wait, we all started with big ugly phones), but you could bet by now, that firm most likely would be manufacturing competitively for the local market as well as EA market and maybe internationally as well.
But, what did we do instead? Over cocktails, graced by most major global telecom executives, we announced to the world that anyone and their 'grandfather' can import phones to our market.; lets open up our markets, lets remove all taxation.
What did we get in return a million users on Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and our only phone manufacturing plant closed down for good.
That is 'progress', African style.
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com
wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one thing at the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
Ahmed, It is that we are at an infant stage in technological development, while a few other countries are at the maturity stage. While we count our Facebook / Twitter users as technological achievement, a few countries are landing a spacecraft 500Million KMs away on a comet. So its no surprise that if we go head on with them, we will most certainly lose. I urge you to read a book such as this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1843310279/qid=1030373453/sr=2-1/ref=... which tries to explain how the rich countries got to where they are and what they are doing to maintain the status quo. A shorter version of this is found here http://www.paecon.net/PAEtexts/Chang1.htm Rgds On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy < ultimateprogramer@gmail.com> wrote:
Ngigi,
The fact that a phone from far east (imported from a mass market producer, with shipping costs, thousands of miles away) could cause a local plant not to operate is really not a good indication for us. Again, it is not the taxation policy. Its really about what we need to do as a country to support innovation. And its not only at the policy level, its also in the civilian level.
Ahmed
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Barrack,
The rain started beating us when instant gratification became more important than our long-term health. The rain started beating us when the metrics for our success became how many users we have on Twitter, Facebook, Google, MSN as opposed to how many of our products & services are being sold and used in the US, UK, Germany and such markets.
I like your example of the Gilgil Telecom plant. Tell me, what would have happened if we had made it as policy that any phone to be sold in the market for less than 20K had to be manufactured / assembled at the Gilgil plant under license?
Maybe Samsung, would have balked at the idea, maybe Nokia would have as well, but I can bet you one current phone manufacturer would have taken up the offer. We would have maybe started with really ugly phones (wait, we all started with big ugly phones), but you could bet by now, that firm most likely would be manufacturing competitively for the local market as well as EA market and maybe internationally as well.
But, what did we do instead? Over cocktails, graced by most major global telecom executives, we announced to the world that anyone and their 'grandfather' can import phones to our market.; lets open up our markets, lets remove all taxation.
What did we get in return a million users on Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and our only phone manufacturing plant closed down for good.
That is 'progress', African style.
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: thing at
the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
http://americanautocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto... places platform privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gm...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
-- *Regards,* *Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
Thank you for the data Ngigi. I have indeed also found some good info (did some very quick reading). To copy paste from the excerpt you provided: *The UK and the USA may be the more dramatic examples, but almost all the rest of the developed world today used tariffs, subsidies and other means to promote their industries in the earlier stages of their development. Cases like Germany, Japan, and Korea are well known in this respect. But even Sweden, which later came to represent the small open economy to many economists had also strategically used tariffs, subsidies, cartels, and state support for R&D to develop key industries, especially textile, steel, and engineering. * It is a known case that for instance economies of scale work to the advantage of countries like China and other giants. From the excerpt extract above, it explains how these economies invested in themselves and implemented the 2 major components I earlier mentioned: Policy frameworks and Civilian Frameworks. The case being I am not making an argument that we can compete, but we can take these steps to reach there. And before we reach there we need to invest in R&D, provide subsides, come up with cartels, have support frameworks and implement a strategic plan for 5 to 10 years. After which, we will be in a position to develop our own solutions to our own problems. Its not an easy thing, but it is achievable. The countries we import from did not wake up and get to where they are at by luck. They did exactly what the excerpt mentions. And that is what we need to foster. And if we have taxes impeding technology growth, its no longer a steep mountain to climb. It becomes a cliff. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi@at.co.ke> wrote:
Ahmed,
It is that we are at an infant stage in technological development, while a few other countries are at the maturity stage. While we count our Facebook / Twitter users as technological achievement, a few countries are landing a spacecraft 500Million KMs away on a comet.
So its no surprise that if we go head on with them, we will most certainly lose.
I urge you to read a book such as this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1843310279/qid=1030373453/sr=2-1/ref=... which tries to explain how the rich countries got to where they are and what they are doing to maintain the status quo.
A shorter version of this is found here http://www.paecon.net/PAEtexts/Chang1.htm
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy < ultimateprogramer@gmail.com> wrote:
Ngigi,
The fact that a phone from far east (imported from a mass market producer, with shipping costs, thousands of miles away) could cause a local plant not to operate is really not a good indication for us. Again, it is not the taxation policy. Its really about what we need to do as a country to support innovation. And its not only at the policy level, its also in the civilian level.
Ahmed
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Barrack,
The rain started beating us when instant gratification became more important than our long-term health. The rain started beating us when the metrics for our success became how many users we have on Twitter, Facebook, Google, MSN as opposed to how many of our products & services are being sold and used in the US, UK, Germany and such markets.
I like your example of the Gilgil Telecom plant. Tell me, what would have happened if we had made it as policy that any phone to be sold in the market for less than 20K had to be manufactured / assembled at the Gilgil plant under license?
Maybe Samsung, would have balked at the idea, maybe Nokia would have as well, but I can bet you one current phone manufacturer would have taken up the offer. We would have maybe started with really ugly phones (wait, we all started with big ugly phones), but you could bet by now, that firm most likely would be manufacturing competitively for the local market as well as EA market and maybe internationally as well.
But, what did we do instead? Over cocktails, graced by most major global telecom executives, we announced to the world that anyone and their 'grandfather' can import phones to our market.; lets open up our markets, lets remove all taxation.
What did we get in return a million users on Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and our only phone manufacturing plant closed down for good.
That is 'progress', African style.
Rgds
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did the rain start beating us?, we used to manufacture phones at Gilgil Telecom Industries, what happened to e-Mado?, indeed we need to study the pros' and cons of taxation on the technology sector. Probably we need a deliberately structured approach of introducing and managing the tax regimes to safeguard and nature the growth of the technology sector. The banking industry exploded when banking fees were reduced. One of the factors that made Mpesa Juicy was the low transaction costs compared to what banks were offering. Just drawing a laymans correlation.
Best Regards
Listers,
Taxation is *always* a double edged sword. In this instance, we would have to ask ourself what is the *NET* effect we want to achieve with the taxation?
As an example, our current and previous tax have been to increase ICT usage, at all costs. Lower the taxes and all the computers and software will become very cheap and affordable and ICT industry can take off.
However, that in my view doesn't have the necessary depth.
Take for example the local industry, every time you lower the taxes, and especially import taxes, you make it that much harder for your local industry to grow as it immediately faces stiff competition from the global players. Your market becomes the dumping ground for every multi-national who sell their products to your market cheap, and then immediately take off with all the profits without re-investing in the local economy.
Taxation can and should address that.
If you look at the policies of most of the developed nations, one
On 11/13/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: thing at
the center of their taxation policy is ensuring their local industries thrive and force outsiders on the very least to consider moving their manufacturing to their markets as that creates jobs and also leads to knowledge transfer. A good example of this, it is not by chance that most Japanese car manufacturers in the US have manufacturing plants in the US, policy (including taxation) forces them to.
Also it is not a coincidence that there are hardly any US cars bought in Japan (
)
Now, we could ask, what have our current taxation policies brought us: 1. High consumer usage of ICT 2. Non-Existent local high-technology sector (we wouldn't built our own Huwaei's, Motorolas, Samsungs as these multi-nationals are able to import goods into our markets with almost no taxation, hence making it almost impossible for a local to challenge them) 3. Non - existent high technology export (if we do not have local firms that can build technology solutions, we have nothing to export) 4. Engineers(Electronics, Electrical, Industrial Design) who have no
to work since there are not enough local firms that could use their core-services (and repairing broken fibre links is not what one spends 5years learning electronics in campus to do)
So we will remain a country of high ICT consumerism while being a dwarf in technology.
Regards
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Listers.
Interesting article.
KITOS, hope you are listening...
Kenya has in the past few years showed promise of renewed innovative capacity, especially in the Information Communication Technology (ICT) sector.
But the new tax regime precipitated by the East African Community (EAC) tax harmonisation is about to reverse all the gains we have made thus far.
Read on
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2516562/-/1xv3f7z/-/...
*Ali Hussein*
+254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
Sent from my iPad
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer
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-- *Regards,*
*Wait**haka Ngigi* Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod Building T + 254 (0) 20 2333 471 |Office Mobile: +254 786 28 28 28 | M + 254 737 811 000 www.at.co.ke
-- *Ahmed Maawy* Executive Director - M-Power (CBO) Shaper - Global Shapers Ambassador - Open Knowledge Director - Startup Grind Mombasa Software Developer - Volo Broadband (KE) +254 714 960 627 Skype: ultimateprogramer m-power.or.ke www.globalshapers.org <http://globalshapers.org/> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/> startupgrind.com www.volobroadband.com
participants (6)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
Barrack Otieno -
luke mulunda -
Ngigi Waithaka -
waudo siganga