I believe that CS Mucheru has said he does not support this, and I recall he has said that this is purely driven by the sponsors of the bill in parliament. From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane=huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Frankline Sunday via kictanet Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 10:32 AM To: Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> Cc: Frankline Sunday <franklinesunday@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly yeah mucheru is very eager to push it through. let me follow up. thanks On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:01 AM Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: This thing has refused to die. On Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 09:52 David Indeje via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: [image.png] Kind Regards, David Indeje [https://cytonn.sheerhr.com/signature/icon/ico-phone.png] +254 (0) 711 385 945 | +254 (0) 734 024 856 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/w%40hapakenya.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/franklinesunday%40gmai... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Indeed. I fully agree this definition captures the entire population that uses a smartphone! Let alone that majority of jobs whether a 1 person business on the street or boda driver or a farmer in agriculture, or anyone working in any industry whatsoever is increasingly using digital no matter if they think they are an ICT practitioner or not. Do we need a certificate to write with pen and paper or use a calculator? Why do we need one to type or use excel or sell online? Let's be clear there is already a very effective market based mechanism in certifications that are OPTIONAL and offered by acadamia as well as private actors anywhere around the world, including delivered online globally. Let's also be clear that the market recognises and rewards experience based on references etc without needing any certification or likewise. From:Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> To:KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Cc:Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> Date:2021-02-19 14:20:34 Subject:Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly This is correct - he has stated as much in public Facebook posts. I encourage people to read that bill and in addition to at least one submission I know is going in complete with 13 and a half thousand signatures on it - every single submission against this absolute innovation killing industry harming insanity would be useful. In summary the way I see this A.) it would result in some of the most experienced people in the industry being forced out of the country to be able to work B.) there is no proper definition of an ict professional that does not cover everything from the secretary that uses excel to input numbers to the most advanced programmer - the definition in there covers virtually anyone in a modern job C.) the bill has no provision in it for bringing in external trainers and consultants and hence damages the industry by working against international knowledge sharing D.) the bill is death to cooperative international innovation E.) the bill creates serious and deep problems with inter company staff transfers or people in multi-nationals coming in to work on intra-company projects that require external resource F.) the bill could potentially put a lot of people out of work damaging the overall tax base G.) there has been zero cited evidence of the need for this bill or the positive impact it would have in the industry - no studies cited - no fact based assertions - nothing but speculation that is in my view a naked attempt at a money grab H.) the law is entirely impractical as regards enforcement - since in the days of remote work a person affected by this can just leave the country and work remotely and be exempt - while again having negative affect on the taxation base. Plenty more points which I will get to but that’s a quick summary of the headline points against this absurdity Andrew Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Adam Lane via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 12:17:48 PM To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly I believe that CS Mucheru has said he does not support this, and I recall he has said that this is purely driven by the sponsors of the bill in parliament. From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane=huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Frankline Sunday via kictanet Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 10:32 AM To: Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> Cc: Frankline Sunday <franklinesunday@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly yeah mucheru is very eager to push it through. let me follow up. thanks On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:01 AM Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: This thing has refused to die. On Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 09:52 David Indeje via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: [image.png] Kind Regards, David Indeje [https://cytonn.sheerhr.com/signature/icon/ico-phone.png] +254 (0) 711 385 945 | +254 (0) 734 024 856 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/w%40hapakenya.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/franklinesunday%40gmai... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

SPOT ON! *Ali Hussein* Digital Transformation Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 3:37 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

As another question,

And I’ve asked this in other forums as well – but considering the number of legal folk on this list – I figured I’d ask for further opinion here.

Does the ICT practitioner bill not run directly afoul of article 33.1 of the constitution – which states:

(1) Every person has the right to freedom of expression, which includes--

(a) freedom to seek, receive or impart information or ideas; (b) freedom of artistic creativity; and (c) academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.

Now – surely that is the very essence of ICT – particularly in the roles of designers, consultants and anyone working with information. The I in ICT alone stands for information.

Comments? I am no lawyer – so I may be well off track – but I’d like to hear opinions on this

Andrew

*From:* Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> *Sent:* Friday, 19 February 2021 14:28 *To:* Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject:* RE: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly

Indeed. I fully agree this definition captures the entire population that uses a smartphone! Let alone that majority of jobs whether a 1 person business on the street or boda driver or a farmer in agriculture, or anyone working in any industry whatsoever is increasingly using digital no matter if they think they are an ICT practitioner or not. Do we need a certificate to write with pen and paper or use a calculator? Why do we need one to type or use excel or sell online?

Let's be clear there is already a very effective market based mechanism in certifications that are OPTIONAL and offered by acadamia as well as private actors anywhere around the world, including delivered online globally.

Let's also be clear that the market recognises and rewards experience based on references etc without needing any certification or likewise.

*From:*Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>

*To:*KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>

*Cc:*Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com>

*Date:*2021-02-19 14:20:34

*Subject:*Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly

This is correct - he has stated as much in public Facebook posts.

I encourage people to read that bill and in addition to at least one submission I know is going in complete with 13 and a half thousand signatures on it - every single submission against this absolute innovation killing industry harming insanity would be useful.

In summary the way I see this

A.) it would result in some of the most experienced people in the industry being forced out of the country to be able to work

B.) there is no proper definition of an ict professional that does not cover everything from the secretary that uses excel to input numbers to the most advanced programmer - the definition in there covers virtually anyone in a modern job

C.) the bill has no provision in it for bringing in external trainers and consultants and hence damages the industry by working against international knowledge sharing

D.) the bill is death to cooperative international innovation

E.) the bill creates serious and deep problems with inter company staff transfers or people in multi-nationals coming in to work on intra-company projects that require external resource

F.) the bill could potentially put a lot of people out of work damaging the overall tax base

G.) there has been zero cited evidence of the need for this bill or the positive impact it would have in the industry - no studies cited - no fact based assertions - nothing but speculation that is in my view a naked attempt at a money grab

H.) the law is entirely impractical as regards enforcement - since in the days of remote work a person affected by this can just leave the country and work remotely and be exempt - while again having negative affect on the taxation base.

Plenty more points which I will get to but that’s a quick summary of the headline points against this absurdity

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ------------------------------

*From:* kictanet < kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Adam Lane via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2021 12:17:48 PM *To:* Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> *Cc:* Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly

I believe that CS Mucheru has said he does not support this, and I recall he has said that this is purely driven by the sponsors of the bill in parliament.

*From:* kictanet [ mailto:kictanet-bounces+adam.lane=huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+adam.lane=huawei.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On Behalf Of *Frankline Sunday via kictanet *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2021 10:32 AM *To:* Adam Lane <adam.lane@huawei.com> *Cc:* Frankline Sunday <franklinesunday@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly

yeah mucheru is very eager to push it through. let me follow up. thanks

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:01 AM Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

This thing has refused to die.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 09:52 David Indeje via kictanet, < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

[image: image.png]

*Kind Regards,*

*David Indeje *

+254 (0) 711 385 945 | +254 (0) 734 024 856

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

Good afternoon Listers, Tech Policy Discussion: ICT Practitioners Bill by lawyers hub is happening right now You can access it via zoom using the link https://lawyershub-org.zoom.us/w/89822587316?tk=8QPaLkouojcUO-bDcMZoaD02Df_W... <https://lawyershub-org.zoom.us/w/89822587316?tk=8QPaLkouojcUO-bDcMZoaD02Df_WXZ9z3UnYzazKagE.DQIAAAAU6dfptBY5cTRzRlBoNFJhMjJYUVpweFc4dTVRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA&uuid=WN_h_8OwhRDRzO7K09qCUn91A> &uuid=WN_h_8OwhRDRzO7K09qCUn91A Best Regards, Alex From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke> On Behalf Of awatila--- via kictanet Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 9:41 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Cc: awatila@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly Good morning, Looks like my school mate is looking for something to do after he stops being a nominated mp. Personal I already belong to an ICT professional association and have no interest in changing to this new one Regards, Alex Watila From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > On Behalf Of Wamathai (HapaKenya) via kictanet Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 9:59 AM To: awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Wamathai (HapaKenya) <w@hapakenya.com <mailto:w@hapakenya.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Practitioners Bill, call for comments/submissions to the National Assembly This thing has refused to die. On Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 09:52 David Indeje via kictanet, <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote: Kind Regards, David Indeje <https://cytonn.sheerhr.com/signature/icon/ico-phone.png> +254 (0) 711 385 945 | +254 (0) 734 024 856 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/ Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/w%40hapakenya.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.