Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco. You can read more here (in Portuguese): http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu... <http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqueio-do-whatsapp-em-todo-brasil-por-48-horas.shtml> or here in English http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook> An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
Uber moment? Tell me more! WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.) "We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world." Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London<x-apple-data-detectors://0/1> | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco. You can read more here (in Portuguese): http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu... or here in English http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook<http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook> An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja<https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F<https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ebeleokobi%40fb.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ebele A new dispensation for global regulation is required. Unfortunately most (not all) regulators are still hung over from the rules when telegrams were the norm.. From bitcoins, to Uber to whatsapp I think it's too much for some of these old school apparatchiks to grasp.. Groups like Kictanet can help advance this new thinking in Africa.. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 17 Dec 2015, at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese): http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja | PGP: 0x1529552F
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Ebele, This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security. Following this keenly! Paul Roy. On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience." Roy.
I like. It's time for a new world order in communications especially voice. And more is yet to come. Let's keep thanking those furthering development of the Internet Protocol and even more those innovating around it. Where do you see telecommunications in future? Regulators are stuck here for way too long. Muthoni On Dec 17, 2015 1:32 PM, "Paul Roy via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't. The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'. Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
There have also been questions raised about the uber model.. It may work in some scenarios. It may not work so well in others. For instance, there have been claims of exploitation of drivers by uber itself. It was in the news a while back. Which may also be related to the corporate culture we have been used to seeing in the private sector. I think the important question to also ask is.. does the disruption mean anything in the bigger picture of things? Does it also point to the fact that we can also drastically re-visit how we do simple things like taxi rides and make them more efficient? Are there elements we are not looking at? So pros and cons do exist and I think healthy debates can chart the best ways forward for such disruptive new models. On 17 Dec 2015 14:49, "Mose Karanja via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu...
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . . Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London<x-apple-data-detectors://0/1> | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com<mailto:mosekaranja@gmail.com>> wrote: Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't. The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'. Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com<mailto:roykoikai@gmail.com>> wrote: Ebele, This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security. Following this keenly! Paul Roy. On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: Uber moment? Tell me more! WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.) "We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world." Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG ebeleokobi@fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote: A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco. You can read more here (in Portuguese): http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqueio-do-whatsapp-em-todo-brasil-por-48-horas.shtml<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwhatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbBtv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=> or here in English http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_2015_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=> An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Mose-5FKaranja&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=TFUayDnKWSQiLJ5A5taBBVg68OqLz-jB-sZLewQkGk4&e=> | PGP: 0x1529552F<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pgp.mit.edu_pks_lookup-3Fop-3Dindex-26fingerprint-3Don-26search-3D0x1529552F&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=o-aNMXG-3V1LbyMmFBOLebwzphVqejbK3fQZiyIeVeE&e=> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ebeleokobi%40fb.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_ebeleokobi-2540fb.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=vd2srCED3auO3LqOWReD7KwZph_GgDXPfCwES0juYsY&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_roykoikai-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=FNOnOAiZmoOvPU9Lag6YJfOw55HuNe2gUUnPAaN9Zw0&e=> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience." Roy.
Great discussion, Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-) Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwhatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbBtv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_2015_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Mose-5FKaranja&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=TFUayDnKWSQiLJ5A5taBBVg68OqLz-jB-sZLewQkGk4&e=> | PGP: 0x1529552F <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pgp.mit.edu_pks_lookup-3Fop-3Dindex-26fingerprint-3Don-26search-3D0x1529552F&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=o-aNMXG-3V1LbyMmFBOLebwzphVqejbK3fQZiyIeVeE&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_listinfo_kictanet&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=fbEaBugqOJdceu29KdI4T4qHVQKNFIIP6oUg_WdmI0o&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given. Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit. On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2015/12/1719934-justica-determina-bloqu... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwhatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbBtv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/16/brazils-congress-has-shut-down-whatsapp-tonight-and-the-rest-of-the-social-web-could-be-next/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_2015_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh The best athletes never started as the best athletes. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad. This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya. Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line. Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN ebeleokobi@fb.com On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com .br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq 8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T 0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201 5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid -3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20 15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2 Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG 4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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Step one, Install Tor. Step two, ask Tor to allow all apps to use it. Step three, use tall for whatsapp. On 17 Dec 2015 20:11, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com
.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq 8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T 0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
< https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201
5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid -3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
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An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
The best athletes never started as the best athletes. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
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Ebele,I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place. I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ebeleokobi@fb.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com .br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq 8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T 0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201 5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid -3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20 15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2 Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG 4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
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The Safe Harbor principles cover your use case, other very complicated ones. They provide guidance and decisions on the adequacy of the protection of personal data when it is transferred to other countries Google uses very complex methods of data storage and security including obfuscation methods i.e they do not keep all of your files in one place but splits them up and stores them on multiple files on several machines in different locations & territories. That is why it is important to have renewed and sound framework for transatlantic data flows. Since technology trends are always ahead of the curve, it is our mandate to help our regulators and governments to come up with policies and framework that protect our interests. Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 23:28:58 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: ngigi@at.co.ke To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Lawrence, I think is a bit deeper if you scratch the surface a little... Suppose you have a company domiciled in US, which sets up an application hosted in servers in Irelend which is then accessed by a user in Kenya through a browser. Suppose GoK wants data the Kenyan user has stored in the servers in Ireland and which, let's assume, has very strict laws on user privacy, how would GoK go about it? Also, technically, when a user accesses an application hosted in a server through a browser, is the application running, as per our example, in Kenya / Ireland? Waithaka Ngigi Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanetSent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:27 PMTo: Ngigi WaithakaReply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy DiscussionsCc: Lawrence NjoguSubject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp Ebele,I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place. I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ebeleokobi@fb.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
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On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
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On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com .br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq 8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T 0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201 5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid -3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20 15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2 Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG 4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Case in point .. http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Africa-at-risk-as-rich-nations-plot-new-deal/-/... Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:32:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com The Safe Harbor principles cover your use case, other very complicated ones. They provide guidance and decisions on the adequacy of the protection of personal data when it is transferred to other countries Google uses very complex methods of data storage and security including obfuscation methods i.e they do not keep all of your files in one place but splits them up and stores them on multiple files on several machines in different locations & territories. That is why it is important to have renewed and sound framework for transatlantic data flows. Since technology trends are always ahead of the curve, it is our mandate to help our regulators and governments to come up with policies and framework that protect our interests. Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 23:28:58 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: ngigi@at.co.ke To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Lawrence, I think is a bit deeper if you scratch the surface a little... Suppose you have a company domiciled in US, which sets up an application hosted in servers in Irelend which is then accessed by a user in Kenya through a browser. Suppose GoK wants data the Kenyan user has stored in the servers in Ireland and which, let's assume, has very strict laws on user privacy, how would GoK go about it? Also, technically, when a user accesses an application hosted in a server through a browser, is the application running, as per our example, in Kenya / Ireland? Waithaka Ngigi Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanetSent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:27 PMTo: Ngigi WaithakaReply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy DiscussionsCc: Lawrence NjoguSubject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp Ebele,I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place. I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ebeleokobi@fb.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com .br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq 8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T 0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
or here in English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201 5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid -3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20 15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2 Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG 4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. --- Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
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<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pgp.mit.edu_pks_ lookup-3Fop-3Dindex-26fingerprint-3Don-26search-3D0x1529552F&d=CwMFaQ& c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE &m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=o-aNMXG-3V1LbyMmFBOLe bwzphVqejbK3fQZiyIeVeE&e=>
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So this story has taken a new dimension. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0W34WF Brazilian police arrested a senior Facebook Inc executive on Tuesday as a dispute escalated over a court's demand that the company provide data from its WhatsApp messaging service to help in a secretive drug-trafficking investigation. Court officials in Sergipe state confirmed that a judge had ordered the jailing of Facebook Vice President for Latin America Diego Dzodan. Federal police in Sao Paulo state said he was being held there for questioning. On Dec 18, 2015 3:53 AM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Case in point .. http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Africa-at-risk-as-rich-nations-plot-new-deal/-/...
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:32:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
The Safe Harbor principles cover your use case, other very complicated ones. They provide guidance and decisions on the adequacy of the protection of p <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_data>ersonal data when it is transferred to other countries
Google uses very complex methods of data storage and security including obfuscation methods i.e they do not keep all of your files in one place but splits them up and stores them on multiple files on several machines in different locations & territories. That is why it is important to have renewed and sound framework for transatlantic data flows.
Since technology trends are always ahead of the curve, it is our mandate to help our regulators and governments to come up with policies and framework that protect our interests.
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 23:28:58 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: ngigi@at.co.ke To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com
Lawrence,
I think is a bit deeper if you scratch the surface a little...
Suppose you have a company domiciled in US, which sets up an application hosted in servers in Irelend which is then accessed by a user in Kenya through a browser.
Suppose GoK wants data the Kenyan user has stored in the servers in Ireland and which, let's assume, has very strict laws on user privacy, how would GoK go about it?
Also, technically, when a user accesses an application hosted in a server through a browser, is the application running, as per our example, in Kenya / Ireland?
Waithaka Ngigi Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke *From: *Lawrence Njogu via kictanet *Sent: *Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:27 PM *To: *Ngigi Waithaka *Reply To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Cc: *Lawrence Njogu *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp
Ebele, I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place.
I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ebeleokobi@fb.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi
ne-user-data-refusal
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825
26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/
-2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on
same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> Uber moment? Tell me more! > > WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB >post > from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look >up > his > personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about >the > right to privacy.) > > "We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access >to > WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to > depend > on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world." > > Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa > > m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> > > 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG > > ebeleokobi@fb.com > > [image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] > > On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > > A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. > The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement > agencies on data handover. > The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show > whois > boss. > However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word > again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are >no > longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum >which > WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a >Telco. > > You can read more here (in Portuguese): > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com
.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh
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hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R
TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu
ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB >tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=> > > or here in English > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201
5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D
and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid
-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa
ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D
FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A
rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC >WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e= > >< https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20
15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2
Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci
d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp
aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB
ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG
4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x >rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=> > > An Uber-moment for WhatsApp. > --- > Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja > >< https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Mose
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This is non sensical and governments are flexing their muscles world wide to curb the new technology dispensation. Keen to see how this shapes up.. *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
So this story has taken a new dimension.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0W34WF
Brazilian police arrested a senior Facebook Inc executive on Tuesday as a dispute escalated over a court's demand that the company provide data from its WhatsApp messaging service to help in a secretive drug-trafficking investigation.
Court officials in Sergipe state confirmed that a judge had ordered the jailing of Facebook Vice President for Latin America Diego Dzodan. Federal police in Sao Paulo state said he was being held there for questioning. On Dec 18, 2015 3:53 AM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Case in point .. http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Africa-at-risk-as-rich-nations-plot-new-deal/-/...
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 19:32:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
The Safe Harbor principles cover your use case, other very complicated ones. They provide guidance and decisions on the adequacy of the protection of p <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_data>ersonal data when it is transferred to other countries
Google uses very complex methods of data storage and security including obfuscation methods i.e they do not keep all of your files in one place but splits them up and stores them on multiple files on several machines in different locations & territories. That is why it is important to have renewed and sound framework for transatlantic data flows.
Since technology trends are always ahead of the curve, it is our mandate to help our regulators and governments to come up with policies and framework that protect our interests.
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 23:28:58 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: ngigi@at.co.ke To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com
Lawrence,
I think is a bit deeper if you scratch the surface a little...
Suppose you have a company domiciled in US, which sets up an application hosted in servers in Irelend which is then accessed by a user in Kenya through a browser.
Suppose GoK wants data the Kenyan user has stored in the servers in Ireland and which, let's assume, has very strict laws on user privacy, how would GoK go about it?
Also, technically, when a user accesses an application hosted in a server through a browser, is the application running, as per our example, in Kenya / Ireland?
Waithaka Ngigi Alliance Technologies www.at.co.ke *From: *Lawrence Njogu via kictanet *Sent: *Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:27 PM *To: *Ngigi Waithaka *Reply To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions *Cc: *Lawrence Njogu *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp
Ebele, I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place.
I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: ebeleokobi@fb.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi
ne-user-data-refusal
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825
26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/
-2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on
same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators
were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing
are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ebele, > > This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around >privacy > vs. security. > > Following this keenly! > > Paul Roy. > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: > >> Uber moment? Tell me more! >> >> WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB >>post >> from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look >>up >> his >> personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about >>the >> right to privacy.) >> >> "We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access >>to >> WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to >> depend >> on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world." >> >> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa >> >> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315> >> >> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG >> >> ebeleokobi@fb.com >> >> [image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B] >> >> On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: >> >> A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. >> The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement >> agencies on data handover. >> The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show >> whois >> boss. >> However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word >> again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are >>no >> longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum >>which >> WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a >>Telco. >> >> You can read more here (in Portuguese): >> >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com
>.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh
>atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT
>tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq
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>m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw
>hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R
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>5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D
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>15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2
>Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci
>d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp
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>-5FKaranja&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa
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Ebele and Moses, I think we are speaking on the same script here, only different arrangement of thoughts. There is no country that is free from violating the rights and freedoms of human rights defenders. Even the most progressive countries. Snowden and Assange quickly comes to mind. But I don't remember a US company refusing data request from a court of competent jurisdiction (Read a US court). The company can go through all appeal mechanisms but when final ruling is made, they usually accent to the ruling. There are exceptions like Lavabit which opted to fold it's operations than hand over information the clients had entrusted it with. I also remember when Blackberry was placed between a rock and a hard place during the 2011 England riots, Research in Motion assisted British police in tracking rioters who used BBM, stating, "We comply with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act and co-operate fully with the Home Office and UK police forces." There is a series of reports that CIPESA has authored, with collaboration with partners like Kictanet that shows data requests from African countries to the Silicon valley blue chips. As far as I know, non was ever accented to. Moses, I'm generalising "silicon valley" because that is where most of the big boys come from. Of course Sype is owned by the guys at Redmond, and Blackberry from Ontario... You see here, the companies have to act with public interest in mind. Developing countries are frowned-at the many times their courts have asked for such data. Many of these countries are repressive regimes, and I don't necessarily support such requests. How do we handle such requests? I submit that the best option is to have international treaties on the same, but governments should not be left to their own devices. Some countries I cannot mention here are just terrible with their human rights records. Lets get something clear, I'm for protection of human rights defenders. And I'm for end to end encryption. Like what Lets Encrtpt is trying to achieve. I'm also for default encryption like what Google is doing with the new version of Android. My argument are based on the Manilla Principles on Intermediary liabilities spearheaded by Electronic Frontier Foundation and where Kictanet was part of the drafting team. If I'm not wrong, we said that all data requests should come with a court order. By the way EFF is one of the most prominent civil society organisations that are true to their word in protecting human rights and taking governments by the horn. This reminds me, just like Net Neutrality, Kenya does not have any meaningful legislation on Intermediary liabilities. Leo nimemwaga kizungu yangu yote. With all that good writing from Moses and Ebele. :-) On Dec 17, 2015 8:08 PM, "Ebele Okobi" <ebeleokobi@fb.com> wrote:
This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program, explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or over-broad.
This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy. Now, from a legal perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company. That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on line.
Links with more information- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi ne-user-data-refusal http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825 26071.html https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/ https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1 -2015&_net=transparency
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
ebeleokobi@fb.com
On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Great discussion,
Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
Regards On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Of course-got it! I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I do think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves were disrupters. . .
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja@gmail.com> wrote:
Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they are taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They hope(d) the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from the regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :) On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Ebele,
This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around privacy vs. security.
Following this keenly!
Paul Roy.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Uber moment? Tell me more!
WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB post from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look up his personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about the right to privacy.)
"We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access to WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to depend on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
ebeleokobi@fb.com
[image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown. The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement agencies on data handover. The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show whois boss. However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are no longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum which WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a Telco.
You can read more here (in Portuguese):
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com
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< https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20 15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2 Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG 4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
The best athletes never started as the best athletes. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (11)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
Barrack Otieno -
Dorcas Muthoni -
Ebele Okobi -
Gichuki John Chuksjonia -
Lawrence Njogu -
Mose Karanja -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Paul Roy -
Waithaka Ngigi