Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Hi, The BPO environment is changing as a result of the financial crisis and the new found American menial work ethic so where do we stand as a destination of choice when even Obama made it clear that no more off-shoring until the unemployment levels reduce substantially. http://www.silicon.com/management/cio-insights/2010/09/30/offshoring-why-ind... So after reading this I am sure you will agree with me that the 2030 targets are not looking as rosy, our model should look at us being the preferred destination for BPO for African countries, we are already seeing it with the central depository system providing custodial services for Rwanda and the NSE working towards making the ATS available to other East African Countries. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
Hi Yawe, Even before the crisis, Kenya had barely made any mark as a Tier 3 destination. There has never been marketing of Kenya as a destination (a task that can only be undertaken by a government) for off/near-shore business and there has been little effort made to sensitize local businesses/governments to outsource. It is interesting that with the significant mention of BPO in vision 2030 strategy, not a cent was allocated has ever been allocated for the sector. There is at least 3 different government agencies (that I am aware of) that have in their TORs some element/version of BPO, but interestingly, they all pull in different directions, have half baked strategies in place, and have not made tangible contributions to the growth of the industry. So, throw in the good old politicking and inefficiencies in GOK, a growing competition (Philippines, Malaysia, Mexico)…Kenya is at the bottom of the pile when it comes to this game! Sadly Edwin From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 9:36 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Hi, The BPO environment is changing as a result of the financial crisis and the new found American menial work ethic so where do we stand as a destination of choice when even Obama made it clear that no more off-shoring until the unemployment levels reduce substantially. http://www.silicon.com/management/cio-insights/2010/09/30/offshoring-why-ind... So after reading this I am sure you will agree with me that the 2030 targets are not looking as rosy, our model should look at us being the preferred destination for BPO for African countries, we are already seeing it with the central depository system providing custodial services for Rwanda and the NSE working towards making the ATS available to other East African Countries. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3170 - Release Date: 10/01/10 06:34:00
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure. If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke
Hi Dr. Ndemo, My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc. That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below: 1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there. The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya. I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print. While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets. Best regards, Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure. If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eonchari%40lynxbits.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3171 - Release Date: 10/01/10 18:34:00
Edwin There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience. In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ? Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here. 3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500 The buck has to stop at the operators feet ..... On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Edwin There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience. In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ? Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here. 3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500 The buck has to stop at the operators feet ..... On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Robert No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better. All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through. As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet. About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?" There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ? Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part Thanks On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Listers, Interesting reading... I realise that for some reason, most people seem to expect that this young industry should already have caught up with those countries that started over 10 years before us- it does not work like that. Yes, we would like to see it much bigger but yes, a lot of "right" things have been done and put in place over the last four years. We cannot say the situation remains the same, we are in a better place. We need to remind ourselves that most of these countries you are all referring are much larger economies and have therefore leveraged on this. For instance, do you realise that in SA only 20% of the BPO industry comprise of outsourced centres? The rest are captives. In India and the Asian countries, they are making the bulk of their money from outsourced work from USA and Europe. Do we also realise that the Government could not oversell the country before the infrastructure was in place and that only happened recently? It is now time to sell the country but both at individual levels -your own company strategy and at Government level. Last week we hosted a NASSCOM delegation for the first time in Kenya. They were totally sold in and that word of mouth can only do great service to growing the ITES industry. It is the likes of companies like Airtel that create the ripple effect and once we have two more of such companies (see the IBM contract effect), the rest will trickle in and it becomes "easier" to sell your company's services. Incidentally there are many companies quietly operating in this space and the industry is not dead. Things will definitely be looking much better in not too long to come. Capacity building is necessary. The key thing is that it should be done in the right areas eg. finishing schools to get people ready to work rather than companies spending two months "finishing" the new employees. I do hope that is how the "capacity building" is being looked at. Otherwise I would say that we now need to see more budgets allocated for marketing/branding Kenya as an ITES destination BUT for goodness sake these budgets should be appropriately used so there are proper returns. And the private sector must surely be involved in this. Kind regards, Gilda Quoting Agosta Liko <[email protected]>:
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet
entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: the pocket
full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to their possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis? Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Robert No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better. All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through. As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet. About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?" There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ? Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part Thanks On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Robert ... Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to their possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to
possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing
Marketing and branding Kenya as a BPO destination is yet to be achieved! So, government has yet to demonstrate (to the best of my knowledge) what it is doing to that end. IBM, Google, Microsoft, GE, Nokia, (the big IT investors), etc; are all Kenya as we speak, when are they going to buy into this grand plan of outsourcing to Kenya? Do we not have the workforce they are looking for? What is it that we do not have that they are looking for, so that we have it in place before 2030? Just wondering!! Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Agosta Liko Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:30 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Robert ... Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: their the
targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Edwin, It is very true that much more needs to be done on the marketing and branding aspects- much much more. It appears it is not seen as a priority yet it is key in awakening interest in outsourcing to Kenya. There's some high level sensitisation needed in this area and I believe it is "work in progress". Gilda Quoting Edwin Onchari <[email protected]>:
Marketing and branding Kenya as a BPO destination is yet to be achieved! So, government has yet to demonstrate (to the best of my knowledge) what it is doing to that end. IBM, Google, Microsoft, GE, Nokia, (the big IT investors), etc; are all Kenya as we speak, when are they going to buy into this grand plan of outsourcing to Kenya? Do we not have the workforce they are looking for? What is it that we do not have that they are looking for, so that we have it in place before 2030? Just wondering!!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Agosta Liko Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:30 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert ...
Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc
:)
Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to
possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: their the
targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Marketing and branding Kenya as a BPO destination is yet to be achieved! So, government has yet to demonstrate (to the best of my knowledge) what it is doing to that end. IBM, Google, Microsoft, GE, Nokia, (the big IT investors), etc; are all Kenya as we speak, when are they going to buy into this grand plan of outsourcing to Kenya? Do we not have the workforce they are looking for? What is it that we do not have that they are looking for, so that we have it in place before 2030? Just wondering!!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Agosta Liko Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:30 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert ...
Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc
:)
Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: their
possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving
4
and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making
a
drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber
upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out
Hi Gilda, In order to attain a fraction of the employment numbers that we are envisioning to be created by the sector by 2030, there definitely has to me a multi-pronged approach to this, and marketing (in any sector) has always been crucial. The industry leaders throughout the world have leveraged operator & government/industry-bodies joint marketing strategies- and this has in turn translated to work being sent to their countries. The image that a single operations (a BPO) projects out there is that of "lone ranger". No serious corporate is going to place work in a country that only has 2-3 operators! Too risky for them, ask them and they will tell you that. One of the very first questions that a client will ask is "how many BPOs are in Kenya, and how many staff are employed in the sector and for how many years". In a nutshell, if your operation had to cease to exist - who else is in Kenya that is experienced enough to handle the work"? Edwin Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:24 AM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Edwin, It is very true that much more needs to be done on the marketing and branding aspects- much much more. It appears it is not seen as a priority yet it is key in awakening interest in outsourcing to Kenya. There's some high level sensitisation needed in this area and I believe it is "work in progress". Gilda Quoting Edwin Onchari <[email protected]>: form the number link, there
consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing the targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Listers, Just two weeks ago, Edwin Onchari was the master of ceremony in a function where we were marketing our country to the Indian Investors. Most of you have read what IBM promised when the IBM President met with our President. They want a relationship with the Universities where they guarantee employment of up to 10,000 Kenyans. They along with Bharti want Land to put up the experience center as well as their HQ. We have firm commitment that some of GE work will be done out of Sameer Park. Google has employed a significant number of Kenyans and they continue to do so while we create the enabling environment. I am on my way to woo other big investors. MaCkinsey report indicated clearly that in BPO one can only break even at 250 seat capacity. As we sought to lease Sameer, I have said a million times that we shall use the facility to incubate local enterpreneurs to grow to the extent wher they can break even. This was partly implementing the MaCkinsey study. Just as I write Brand Kenya with ICT Board is in the UK and the US to recruit Kenyans in the diaspora to be our Ambassadors in marketing our country. The role of Government is to create the enabling environment for its citizens to thrive. We have havelargely created this environment. In my view if we continue with Kanu hangovers we shall not exploit that which President Kibaki's Government has done to its people. Let us not come to regret that we should have taken advantage of this environment. There is lots of opportunity to exploit and where one has no clue, we are ready to help. Ndemo.
Marketing and branding Kenya as a BPO destination is yet to be achieved! So, government has yet to demonstrate (to the best of my knowledge) what it is doing to that end. IBM, Google, Microsoft, GE, Nokia, (the big IT investors), etc; are all Kenya as we speak, when are they going to buy into this grand plan of outsourcing to Kenya? Do we not have the workforce they are looking for? What is it that we do not have that they are looking for, so that we have it in place before 2030? Just wondering!!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Agosta Liko Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:30 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert ...
Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc
:)
Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to
possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: their the
targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Well said. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sender: [email protected]: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:29:40 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Listers, Just two weeks ago, Edwin Onchari was the master of ceremony in a function where we were marketing our country to the Indian Investors. Most of you have read what IBM promised when the IBM President met with our President. They want a relationship with the Universities where they guarantee employment of up to 10,000 Kenyans. They along with Bharti want Land to put up the experience center as well as their HQ. We have firm commitment that some of GE work will be done out of Sameer Park. Google has employed a significant number of Kenyans and they continue to do so while we create the enabling environment. I am on my way to woo other big investors. MaCkinsey report indicated clearly that in BPO one can only break even at 250 seat capacity. As we sought to lease Sameer, I have said a million times that we shall use the facility to incubate local enterpreneurs to grow to the extent wher they can break even. This was partly implementing the MaCkinsey study. Just as I write Brand Kenya with ICT Board is in the UK and the US to recruit Kenyans in the diaspora to be our Ambassadors in marketing our country. The role of Government is to create the enabling environment for its citizens to thrive. We have havelargely created this environment. In my view if we continue with Kanu hangovers we shall not exploit that which President Kibaki's Government has done to its people. Let us not come to regret that we should have taken advantage of this environment. There is lots of opportunity to exploit and where one has no clue, we are ready to help. Ndemo.
Marketing and branding Kenya as a BPO destination is yet to be achieved! So, government has yet to demonstrate (to the best of my knowledge) what it is doing to that end. IBM, Google, Microsoft, GE, Nokia, (the big IT investors), etc; are all Kenya as we speak, when are they going to buy into this grand plan of outsourcing to Kenya? Do we not have the workforce they are looking for? What is it that we do not have that they are looking for, so that we have it in place before 2030? Just wondering!!
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Agosta Liko Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:30 AM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert ...
Once more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdA1ikkoEc
:)
Hi Liko, Thanks for the insightful post on your experiences it is always refreshing to listen to new ideas. You made something very clear that for most BPO jobs one does not need a university degree, do you therefore subscribe to the school of that the government should stop promising fresh graduates that the solution to
possible unemployment will be the BPO sector. It is scary when you hear a minister at a graduation telling the students that they will get a job in the BPO sector. You have indicated the 3,000 (1,200 at Safaricom) jobs currently created courtesy of the BPO industry yet we will have 450,000 leaving form 4 and 30,000 graduating from Universities this year alone making the number a drop in the ocean. Whatever you believe, I strongly feel the government is not doing enough, like with any new sector without the participation of government there will be sluggish or no growth. Investing in new sectors is what government is created for and not participation in mature markets an area that need to be divest. How long will it take your company to directly or indirectly create 10 new jobs & long would it take the government to do the same, but in this we digress. The critical question still remains where does Kenya stand in the new BPO order brought about by the financial crisis?
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: robert yawe <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 22:11:11 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Robert
No goal posts have shifted. The field is still the same and one can say it will be better.
All those baby boomers who lost their jobs after the global financial crisis are now competing with Indians, Malaysians etc etc etc. Even though the Democrats in US don't like outsourcing, the Republicans should make gains during the mid terms and it will become easier for businesses to get cost effective labor abroad. Same goes for Europe etc etc
The thing that concerns me is this focus on "capacity building" ... I don't understand which training one needs in order to answer a phone call :) ... and most of us who went to study abroad would attest to the fact that you could get a customer service job, shadow an experienced person for 3 days and you are picking calls .... Even IT jobs ... you did industry certs and broke through.
As I said, On Outsourcing the buck stops at the operators feet.
About "should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere?"
There are companies still working well in the sector ... and they will keep growing ... I am sure all have seen hard times, but hey - that's business. If we are to move elsewhere ... what about the 3000+ jobs created thus far ?
Bottom Line - On outsourcing.... lets not blame the government ... they have done and continue to do their part
Thanks
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:12 PM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Liko, I think you have misunderstood the question here, we are singing about how the BPO industry will help us meet the objectives of the 2030 agenda yet the entire playing field is changing and we do not seem to be realigning. As the goal posts keep shifting are we able to continue playing or should we just hang our boots and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere? Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________ From: Agosta Liko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, 3 October, 2010 17:51:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Edwin
There is a strategy and very true stuff in there. Lots of people are privy to what the mckinseys hv said etc etc. But to me, the main issue is execution and patience.
In my experience, clients don't care where you are (country) all they care about is can you deliver ?
Delivery becomes the issue and there is little the govt can do here.
3 years ago, a call to USA was 40shs per minute ....... Now it's 3shs, labor costs the same. Internet was usd6000 per mb (dedicated) .... I remember spending 400k just to get last mile fiber. Now 1mb is usd 500
The buck has to stop at the operators feet .....
On Sunday, October 3, 2010, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dr. Ndemo,
My apologies for not having highlighted the positives that the government has made in developing the ICT sector in general such as the Fiber link, upcoming ICT parks, EPZ status for BPOs, skills development, ICT frameworks, etc.
That said, my response here was in respect to placing Kenya as BPO destination on the global stage. The BPO awareness that Kenya has received over the last 6 years has been largely due to operator efforts (a handful of BPOs). My take is that the government should take up the country's marketing efforts more aggressively and as below:
1. Yes, sell to large IT investors and attract the IBMs of the IT world to set-up/collaborate in Kenya. We are all aware that there is some work to be done in this front to get the capacity to attract such big players, and this might take a while. 2. But also, target the lower lying fruit: Over 80% of the BPO market is dominated by mid-sized companies from key markets of Europe and North America-outsourcing. These organizations outsource small projects (1-50 seats), which cumulatively have translated to employing over 250,000 staff in the Philippines/Malaysia for example. That did not come from a handful of big players setting up shop in the Philippines alone at the start, but rather many small to mid-sized organizations sending work there.
The global BPO forums and symposiums always have tier3 destination governments in attendance, with the sole purpose of showcasing the operators in their countries, above and beyond, their conscious efforts of attracting big IT firms to set up shop in their countries. I could be gravely wrong here, but, going through all the major global BPO forums that have taken place in the last 3 years; Kenya has not featured in any of them (not by our government agencies at least). This means that very few firms out there consider Kenya as a viable destination to place work, or are even aware that fiber landed in Kenya.
I still strongly feel that unless we come up with a collaborative, well thought through BPO strategy, we'll miss creating the kind of employment numbers that we are envisioning in the 2030 blue print.
While it is not my intent to project negative energy, as a seasoned operator in the industry, I feel obliged to inform where I feel we are missing
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, robert yawe <[email protected]> wrote: their the
targets.
Best regards,
Edwin
Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a pocket full of holes. DAVID TOOMA
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: Edwin Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure.
If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
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Hi, As Edwin says we need to see more than just lip service from the GOK, I have also mentioned before that we need to see action such as a single toll free 0800 number to reach all government offices and agencies. This will mean that the GOK puts up a contact centre, standardise their websites so that there is a level of harmonisation on how information is presented. The National Data Centre recently advertised for in the press recently is a move in the right direction but we need to see more. For BPO is take route we need to generate 80% of the business locally, the foreign component is called the icing on the cake, eating icing alone can load to all kinds of problems like took decay, as it goes straight to the bottom line as the local contracts already meet the operations overhead. As I wrote before and I repeat again Kenya is the ideal destination for provision of BPO services to companies and governments in the East African region. I wish we can be able to convince companies like Orange/Telkom and Nairobi water to outsource some of their functions. As a country we started the BPO business on the wrong footing which is why the players in the industry kept crying about costs of international bandwidth, providing outsourcing services to Kenya Power or Min, of Communications does not require international connectivity, just an efficient peering point. It is myopic to think that we can take highly educated Kenyan graduates, unless it is during the pre graduation period, and have them work in the BPO sector unless you are confirming that our degrees are equivalent to an "O" level Cambridge certificate. If that is the government's strategy then forget 2030, we might as well just call the joint leaders of the UK together with the Queen and hand over our sovereignty as we shall be continuing the back peddling that began in 1963. We for a short while enjoyed a forward movement based on the momentum we had but soon after the gradient has been taking toll. All the leading BPO destinations apply the pareto rule which is why Indian companies can counter the USA directive about re-shoring of BPO services by setting up in the USA, this is only possible because of the local business in India. I ask you to read the book Bangalore Tigers to get a better understanding on what it takes to profit from the BPO business it is very different from calling tourists to see animals in the wild that we have never even feed. Where does Kenya stand? Dead in the water (please lets call a spade and spade) Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, 2 October, 2010 22:34:10 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand Fibre Landed in Kenya just last year. We do not have the facility to incubate upcoming enterprises or attract large IT Investors. We are still developing capacity. To go to market one has to have the product. GOK is aggressively digitalizing all its registries to encourage new applications. GOK has invested heavily on the ICT infrastructure. If we truely want to succeed and move ICT to another level, such negative energy is the last thing we need. Having made his criticism, perhaps Edwin should elaborate what he would have done under the circumstances or what he considers to be the right track to achieving vision 2030. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Edwin Onchari" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 22:54:04 To: <[email protected]> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.u...
Edwin How is this the Governments fault ? What about the operators, owners and their spokesmen ? The Government has and is still doing its part... {more than it is doing for other budding industries} Thanks On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Edwin Onchari <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Yawe,
Even before the crisis, Kenya had barely made any mark as a Tier 3 destination. There has never been marketing of Kenya as a destination (a task that can only be undertaken by a government) for off/near-shore business and there has been little effort made to sensitize local businesses/governments to outsource.
It is interesting that with the significant mention of BPO in vision 2030 strategy, not a cent was allocated has ever been allocated for the sector. There is at least 3 different government agencies (that I am aware of) that have in their TORs some element/version of BPO, but interestingly, they all pull in different directions, have half baked strategies in place, and have not made tangible contributions to the growth of the industry.
So, throw in the good old politicking and inefficiencies in GOK, a growing competition (Philippines, Malaysia, Mexico)…Kenya is at the bottom of the pile when it comes to this game! Sadly
Edwin
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of robert yawe Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 9:36 PM To: Edwin Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Out sourcing; where does Kenya stand
Hi,
The BPO environment is changing as a result of the financial crisis and the new found American menial work ethic so where do we stand as a destination of choice when even Obama made it clear that no more off-shoring until the unemployment levels reduce substantially.
http://www.silicon.com/management/cio-insights/2010/09/30/offshoring-why-ind...
So after reading this I am sure you will agree with me that the 2030 targets are not looking as rosy, our model should look at us being the preferred destination for BPO for African countries, we are already seeing it with the central depository system providing custodial services for Rwanda and the NSE working towards making the ATS available to other East African Countries.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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participants (6)
-
Agosta Liko -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
dmakali＠yahoo.com -
Edwin Onchari -
godera＠skyweb.co.ke -
robert yawe