Re: [kictanet] ICT ASSOCIATIONS MERGER
Hi listers, I have truly enjoyed this debate especially having been the first founding executive director of KENYA ICT FEDERATION (KIF) With other industry captains like mike eldon our founder chairman and all chairmen of the then 12 existing ICT associations i.e. 2003. our vision was exactly what this debate is about and we anchored KIF under KEPSA. as Dr. siganga said, there is no need of recreating the wheel. just contact Dr. kevit desai the KIF governor at KEPSA and ask him to adopt all ICT associations and stakeholders in KEPSA through KIF. believe me folks, if the ROMAN KING CONSTANTINE hadn t merged all christian sects and made himself the first POPE, christianity would not have survived 2000 years and be so successful in its mission good day all charles nduati On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:34 EEST Harry Delano wrote:
Al Kags,
That is why this town hall meeting may be important. Actually Harry (Hare), came up with a more brilliant idea that would require us to make this to be more of an evaluation process - that would create a "need" for either overhaul or improvement in structures and processes. This could be enacted by Govt, either through legislation, or an executive decision.
Mr. Kukubo, also had a good suggestion that we cast the net wider, to draw in as many stakeholers as we can. This, I suppose would be be a perfect chance for us, to tick each of these agencies off the list, enumerating their roles, mandate, and how this all should fit in the bigger picture across the national ICT Landscape. I suppose, we need to hold to account those tasked with a mandate..
So I suppose, the question we should be asking ourselves, is where do we first start - The town hall meeting..? And how do we cast this net wider for participation..?
Harry
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Al Kags Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:45 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Gilda, you are right that all organisations need to meet their obligations effectively. I wonder though whether some of them are not duplicated? especially some that we have seen listed on this thread?
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, <godera@skyweb.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Harry,
I believe the various organisations are all playing their own unique roles. Key thing is for each to meet it's obligations effectively. Tim Waema's proposal on the discussion of various organisations and their mandate is no doubt a good idea to get things cleared and for industry to continue giving their input so that the organisations are well designed.
Best,
Gilda
Quoting Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>:
S. Murigi,
Hey is it an ipad you typing on....?? Anyways, just on a lighter note...
So, what could be the best way forward? It seems, we just got a whole
of organizations out here, some of them I'm hearing for the 1st time..
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry> =comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of S.Murigi Muraya Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:25 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
About 2 years ago went to the KICTB offices then at Waiyaki Way. My
then was to find out what they were about.
Was referred to a visibly irritated fellow who was done with me in less
1 minute only telling me to check the KICTB website.
Have waited to see what they would come up with and am not too disappointed. For one they organize, co sponsor or market industry events that yuppies can be involved in without falling asleep. Being sort of experienced in the professional tech skills development field this can authoritatively say
myriad purpose than this
is one of the 'enabling situations' we have lacked locally.
We need skills but companies are not willing to train unethical techies who jump ship immediately after being sharpened. On the other hand techies are unable to effectively educate themselves without corporate or tech community support eg. www.ihub.co.ke
Training centers are not too doing well financially & cannot hire the best (often more experienced) techies because corporates are not training as much as they should. By working with industry giants (eg Google, Microsoft, Oracle) & their partners the KICTB is somehow helping educate techies via these industry events.
If anything, the KICTB needs to exist for this purpose -> to help build capacity in the local tech industry. They are exposing budding software entreprenuers to Indian outsourcing practices to name another 'situation' they are enabling. GITS, NCS etc do not do this as far as I know.
Nimechoka - typing on a mobile.
SMM
-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 16:52 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Dr. Siganga,
Your write up makes sense, i guess we have been mixing too many issues, in other words we handle government agencies and industry associations separately, sounds like the meeting is a welcome idea, i suggest government agencies first.
Regards
Hi Evans, all - we have discussed the issue of a statutory body to regulate ICT professionalism on this list in the past and the discussion did not go far. Some said that we would be interfering with "innovation". Some mentioned Bill Gates as a guy who has done much but does not have any professional qualification. Yet others had other stories (e.g. the three blind men story from Brian and his note to Walu on 7/7/08:
I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
On 10/9/08 on this list I re-introduced the topic of a statutory body such as LSK,ICPAK, ... to guide the ICT profession. In my mail I even included a "draft ICT Professionals Act". The idea received cold water except from Kamotho.
One distinction between "profession" and "Industry". In my mind I see statutory bodies as more regulating "profession" rather than "industry". Industry bodies are normally private sector initiatives formed by interested persons to achieve common goals. I can be surprised to hear the government being asked to help set up an "industry" association of any type. Private sector associations engage the government, so how can the same government be involved in their set up? The other axiomatic thing about associations is that the ones that do not deliver invariably die a natural death - and there are many examples of this in Kenya even within ICT. It is not difficult to set up a membership association (just like a Church or Club which are set up under
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: the same "Societies Act").
People cannot be stopped from setting up associations because the Constitution guarantees freedom of association. This means those who have any bright ideas that are not accommodated by existing associations cannot have an excuse or choose to take up the role of professional hecklers of existing associations.
Within ICT we agreed some years to accommodate multiple associations which then converge under KEPSA umbrella to offer a unified voice. This I think is working very well as recently exemplified at the Prime Minister's Round Table where ICT issues were very well articulated.
With regard to Prof's suggestion to discuss government agencies and private sector associations at the same meeting I think that would create much confusion and even opportunities for red herrings to be thrown around. It is mixing oranges and apples. The word "association" is actually a short form. The exact terminology is "membership association". An association is made up of members who voluntarily come together and run their interests. The members have their own channels to discuss their issues. It does not take much imagination to realize that someone who is NOT a "member" is unlikely to have overflowing goodwill towards (leave alone information about) the association. However, associations face a lot of challenges and a specific get together of associations to discuss best practices and ways of being sustainable and more effective would be welcome. The Business Advocacy Fund is for example doing a great and positive job in the direction of capacity building and funding. Well done to them. Another useful type of meeting is the type you refer to that was held at KICC a couple of years ago where associations can inform a wider audience about their activities and roles and, perhaps, recruit more members. Overall, an associations' meeting should be a focused one and not be mixed up with one for government agencies; and guest list should be expanded from Prof's limiting suggestion of "the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective" to include those which are effective so that others can learn from them as well.
Waudo www.cskonline.org
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:38 -0500, ikua@lpakenya.org wrote:
Dear listers, Did we not have a similar meeting not too long ago? I think it was about two years or so. Cant remember who had organized it but it was there at KICC. Same theme of taking stock of all ICT bodies. Cant remember if the Government agencies were represented.
Not that I have a problem with yet another similar meeting, but we need to clearly set out what we want to achieve with that kind of gathering. Its common knowledge that the ICT industry is awash with all manner of associations/organizations and Government bodies. Isn't it time that we had the sort of organization that we see with other professions like Accountants and Lawyers etc? Isn't it time that the Government created a statutory industry association? This can easily be achieved by such legislation as the policy document presented by the PS the other day, or the Communications Act that was passed not too long ago.
Inasmuch as the Government so believes in the increasing importance that ICT plays in the economy, then its imperative that we have an industry body that would take care of all others, say like a CSK that is recognized by an Act of parliament.
Regards, Ikua
Quoting Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com>:
Dear all, The discussion needs to be on the institutional framework for ICTs in Kenya, not just on KICTB. It needs to cover KICTB, NCS and DEG/GITS. It also needs to include the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective. I can organize such a townhall meeting in Chiromo like the first one. However, for such a meeting to be useful, it needs to be preceded by some guided discussion on the same. Alternatively, one or two persons can prepare presenations to guide the discussions, with these presentations being made available earlier for participants to acquint with them. I am also prepared to be one of those persons. tim
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Daktari,
Thank you for setting the ball rolling, not sure i saw the document as well it must have been hijacked. A town hall meeting is a welcome idea i second it, Kippra felt sufficiently philanthropic before the last town hall meeting i wonder whether they can double their offer during this easter season, bwn Magolo can we count on you. Walu can set the agenda.
Regards
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote: > On 04/04/2010, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: >> Barrack, >> Several posts have come by on the role of ICT and I think it >> will be wise >> if we sorted this in a town hall meeting similar to one we had >> on Malili. >> Honestly it feels as though some Neanderthal decided to create >> these agencies without putting some thought to it. Criticisms >> are good only when you point out where there are gaps. >> >> The other day I posted a policy proposal for comments but only >> one person >> did respond. What it means then is that this forum ni ya >> kuchongoana tu. > > Dakitari, with due respect, would you mind resending the policy > proposals as a new thread so that interested parties may respond? > If sent within this thread, I'm afraid they'll be swallowed > along the way. > >> Which really is unfortunate. I have four other policy >> proposals that I really think should push through then arouse >> sufficient interest from the >> membership here. > > I also think you should send them so that we react to the contents! >> >> >> Ndemo. >> >> >>> This is truly "Jicho Pevu", i think some answers to this >>> questions are very much in order as we celebrate Easter, can >>> someone provide us with a list of all agencies involved in >>> ICTs and ICT4D so that we can do some tooth comb analysis, i >>> saw a post from Paul on what the board has achieved early >>> this year, that was very much in order we need something from NCS as well plus any other agencies. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Vitalis Olunga >>> <volunga@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> There is also another body , National Communications >>>> Secretarait. What is the diffrence between NCS and ICT Baord >>>> and how do the two bodies relate >>>> with respect to advisory services to the governement on ICT matters? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Vitalis >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> >>>> To: volunga@yahoo.com >>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 12:03:22 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I rest my case on this issue, the ICT Board is a monolith, >>>> Try reading this... (pdf file), as I feared it is mandated to >>>> do anything and everything under the sun that could be called >>>> ICT which includes your microwave oven and copier. >>>> Functions of Kenya ICT Board >>>> The core functions of Kenya ICT Board as documented in the >>>> Kenya Gazette >>>> Legal Notice No 26 of the May 2007: >>>> ? To advice the government on all relevant matters >>>> pertaining to development, coordination (remember the PM >>>> post) and promotion of ICT industries in the country. >>>> ? Promote both locally and internationally the opportunities >>>> for investments in ICT technology ? Facilitate and manage >>>> ICT industrial incubation parks and technology >>>> parks together with associated facilities on sites, estates and land. >>>> ? Partner with agents within and without the country to >>>> carry out such >>>> functions as it may consider necessary. >>>> ? To transform and empower society through deployment and >>>> use of ICTs. >>>> ? Carry out any other activity to promote and develop ICT >>>> products and >>>> services. >>>> Have a restful Easter as we await the limited range 4G, yes >>>> you guessed >>>> it I >>>> still have a 3G issue and I am in Nairobi. >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrac k%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Barrack O. Otieno >>> Geneva >>> Skype: barrack.otieno >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or >>> change your options at >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jam bo.co.ke >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous >>> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >>> --------------------------------------------- >>> "easy access to the world" >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content >> by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >> --------------------------------------------- >> "easy access to the world" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: solo.mburu@gmail.com Unsubscribe or >> change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu%40 gmail.com >> > > > -- > Solomon Mb?r? Kamau > P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi > Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 > > Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will > graze all the same way to the side of a hill! > > AND > > It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! > > http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com http://smiley2.wordpress.com > http://mburu.sikika.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Unsubscribe > or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrac k%40gmail.com >
-- Barrack O. Otieno Palais de Nations Genéve Skype: barrack.otieno
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Charles, At the risk of starting a religious debate, ...jst wanted to clarify. 1st Pope was never Constantine but St. Peter...in the 1st Century. Constantine came on the scene 300years later.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I ... walu. --- On Thu, 4/8/10, charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: charles nduati <charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT ASSOCIATIONS MERGER To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:49 AM Hi listers, I have truly enjoyed this debate especially having been the first founding executive director of KENYA ICT FEDERATION (KIF) With other industry captains like mike eldon our founder chairman and all chairmen of the then 12 existing ICT associations i.e. 2003. our vision was exactly what this debate is about and we anchored KIF under KEPSA. as Dr. siganga said, there is no need of recreating the wheel. just contact Dr. kevit desai the KIF governor at KEPSA and ask him to adopt all ICT associations and stakeholders in KEPSA through KIF. believe me folks, if the ROMAN KING CONSTANTINE hadn t merged all christian sects and made himself the first POPE, christianity would not have survived 2000 years and be so successful in its mission good day all charles nduati On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:34 EEST Harry Delano wrote:
Al Kags,
That is why this town hall meeting may be important. Actually Harry (Hare), came up with a more brilliant idea that would require us to make this to be more of an evaluation process - that would create a "need" for either overhaul or improvement in structures and processes. This could be enacted by Govt, either through legislation, or an executive decision.
Mr. Kukubo, also had a good suggestion that we cast the net wider, to draw in as many stakeholers as we can. This, I suppose would be be a perfect chance for us, to tick each of these agencies off the list, enumerating their roles, mandate, and how this all should fit in the bigger picture across the national ICT Landscape. I suppose, we need to hold to account those tasked with a mandate..
So I suppose, the question we should be asking ourselves, is where do we first start - The town hall meeting..? And how do we cast this net wider for participation..?
Harry
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Al Kags Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:45 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Gilda, you are right that all organisations need to meet their obligations effectively. I wonder though whether some of them are not duplicated? especially some that we have seen listed on this thread?
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, <godera@skyweb.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Harry,
I believe the various organisations are all playing their own unique roles. Key thing is for each to meet it's obligations effectively. Tim Waema's proposal on the discussion of various organisations and their mandate is no doubt a good idea to get things cleared and for industry to continue giving their input so that the organisations are well designed.
Best,
Gilda
Quoting Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>:
S. Murigi,
Hey is it an ipad you typing on....?? Anyways, just on a lighter note...
So, what could be the best way forward? It seems, we just got a whole
of organizations out here, some of them I'm hearing for the 1st time..
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry> =comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of S.Murigi Muraya Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:25 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
About 2 years ago went to the KICTB offices then at Waiyaki Way. My
then was to find out what they were about.
Was referred to a visibly irritated fellow who was done with me in less
1 minute only telling me to check the KICTB website.
Have waited to see what they would come up with and am not too disappointed. For one they organize, co sponsor or market industry events that yuppies can be involved in without falling asleep. Being sort of experienced in the professional tech skills development field this can authoritatively say
myriad purpose than this
is one of the 'enabling situations' we have lacked locally.
We need skills but companies are not willing to train unethical techies who jump ship immediately after being sharpened. On the other hand techies are unable to effectively educate themselves without corporate or tech community support eg. www.ihub.co.ke
Training centers are not too doing well financially & cannot hire the best (often more experienced) techies because corporates are not training as much as they should. By working with industry giants (eg Google, Microsoft, Oracle) & their partners the KICTB is somehow helping educate techies via these industry events.
If anything, the KICTB needs to exist for this purpose -> to help build capacity in the local tech industry. They are exposing budding software entreprenuers to Indian outsourcing practices to name another 'situation' they are enabling. GITS, NCS etc do not do this as far as I know.
Nimechoka - typing on a mobile.
SMM
-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 16:52 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Dr. Siganga,
Your write up makes sense, i guess we have been mixing too many issues, in other words we handle government agencies and industry associations separately, sounds like the meeting is a welcome idea, i suggest government agencies first.
Regards
Hi Evans, all - we have discussed the issue of a statutory body to regulate ICT professionalism on this list in the past and the discussion did not go far. Some said that we would be interfering with "innovation". Some mentioned Bill Gates as a guy who has done much but does not have any professional qualification. Yet others had other stories (e.g. the three blind men story from Brian and his note to Walu on 7/7/08:
I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
On 10/9/08 on this list I re-introduced the topic of a statutory body such as LSK,ICPAK, ... to guide the ICT profession. In my mail I even included a "draft ICT Professionals Act". The idea received cold water except from Kamotho.
One distinction between "profession" and "Industry". In my mind I see statutory bodies as more regulating "profession" rather than "industry". Industry bodies are normally private sector initiatives formed by interested persons to achieve common goals. I can be surprised to hear the government being asked to help set up an "industry" association of any type. Private sector associations engage the government, so how can the same government be involved in their set up? The other axiomatic thing about associations is that the ones that do not deliver invariably die a natural death - and there are many examples of this in Kenya even within ICT. It is not difficult to set up a membership association (just like a Church or Club which are set up under
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: the same "Societies Act").
People cannot be stopped from setting up associations because the Constitution guarantees freedom of association. This means those who have any bright ideas that are not accommodated by existing associations cannot have an excuse or choose to take up the role of professional hecklers of existing associations.
Within ICT we agreed some years to accommodate multiple associations which then converge under KEPSA umbrella to offer a unified voice. This I think is working very well as recently exemplified at the Prime Minister's Round Table where ICT issues were very well articulated.
With regard to Prof's suggestion to discuss government agencies and private sector associations at the same meeting I think that would create much confusion and even opportunities for red herrings to be thrown around. It is mixing oranges and apples. The word "association" is actually a short form. The exact terminology is "membership association". An association is made up of members who voluntarily come together and run their interests. The members have their own channels to discuss their issues. It does not take much imagination to realize that someone who is NOT a "member" is unlikely to have overflowing goodwill towards (leave alone information about) the association. However, associations face a lot of challenges and a specific get together of associations to discuss best practices and ways of being sustainable and more effective would be welcome. The Business Advocacy Fund is for example doing a great and positive job in the direction of capacity building and funding. Well done to them. Another useful type of meeting is the type you refer to that was held at KICC a couple of years ago where associations can inform a wider audience about their activities and roles and, perhaps, recruit more members. Overall, an associations' meeting should be a focused one and not be mixed up with one for government agencies; and guest list should be expanded from Prof's limiting suggestion of "the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective" to include those which are effective so that others can learn from them as well.
Waudo www.cskonline.org
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:38 -0500, ikua@lpakenya.org wrote:
Dear listers, Did we not have a similar meeting not too long ago? I think it was about two years or so. Cant remember who had organized it but it was there at KICC. Same theme of taking stock of all ICT bodies. Cant remember if the Government agencies were represented.
Not that I have a problem with yet another similar meeting, but we need to clearly set out what we want to achieve with that kind of gathering. Its common knowledge that the ICT industry is awash with all manner of associations/organizations and Government bodies. Isn't it time that we had the sort of organization that we see with other professions like Accountants and Lawyers etc? Isn't it time that the Government created a statutory industry association? This can easily be achieved by such legislation as the policy document presented by the PS the other day, or the Communications Act that was passed not too long ago.
Inasmuch as the Government so believes in the increasing importance that ICT plays in the economy, then its imperative that we have an industry body that would take care of all others, say like a CSK that is recognized by an Act of parliament.
Regards, Ikua
Quoting Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com>:
Dear all, The discussion needs to be on the institutional framework for ICTs in Kenya, not just on KICTB. It needs to cover KICTB, NCS and DEG/GITS. It also needs to include the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective. I can organize such a townhall meeting in Chiromo like the first one. However, for such a meeting to be useful, it needs to be preceded by some guided discussion on the same. Alternatively, one or two persons can prepare presenations to guide the discussions, with these presentations being made available earlier for participants to acquint with them. I am also prepared to be one of those persons. tim
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Daktari,
Thank you for setting the ball rolling, not sure i saw the document as well it must have been hijacked. A town hall meeting is a welcome idea i second it, Kippra felt sufficiently philanthropic before the last town hall meeting i wonder whether they can double their offer during this easter season, bwn Magolo can we count on you. Walu can set the agenda.
Regards
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote: > On 04/04/2010, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: >> Barrack, >> Several posts have come by on the role of ICT and I think it >> will be wise >> if we sorted this in a town hall meeting similar to one we had >> on Malili. >> Honestly it feels as though some Neanderthal decided to create >> these agencies without putting some thought to it. Criticisms >> are good only when you point out where there are gaps. >> >> The other day I posted a policy proposal for comments but only >> one person >> did respond. What it means then is that this forum ni ya >> kuchongoana tu. > > Dakitari, with due respect, would you mind resending the policy > proposals as a new thread so that interested parties may respond? > If sent within this thread, I'm afraid they'll be swallowed > along the way. > >> Which really is unfortunate. I have four other policy >> proposals that I really think should push through then arouse >> sufficient interest from the >> membership here. > > I also think you should send them so that we react to the contents! >> >> >> Ndemo. >> >> >>> This is truly "Jicho Pevu", i think some answers to this >>> questions are very much in order as we celebrate Easter, can >>> someone provide us with a list of all agencies involved in >>> ICTs and ICT4D so that we can do some tooth comb analysis, i >>> saw a post from Paul on what the board has achieved early >>> this year, that was very much in order we need something from NCS as well plus any other agencies. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Vitalis Olunga >>> <volunga@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> There is also another body , National Communications >>>> Secretarait. What is the diffrence between NCS and ICT Baord >>>> and how do the two bodies relate >>>> with respect to advisory services to the governement on ICT matters? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Vitalis >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> >>>> To: volunga@yahoo.com >>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 12:03:22 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I rest my case on this issue, the ICT Board is a monolith, >>>> Try reading this... (pdf file), as I feared it is mandated to >>>> do anything and everything under the sun that could be called >>>> ICT which includes your microwave oven and copier. >>>> Functions of Kenya ICT Board >>>> The core functions of Kenya ICT Board as documented in the >>>> Kenya Gazette >>>> Legal Notice No 26 of the May 2007: >>>> ? To advice the government on all relevant matters >>>> pertaining to development, coordination (remember the PM >>>> post) and promotion of ICT industries in the country. >>>> ? Promote both locally and internationally the opportunities >>>> for investments in ICT technology ? Facilitate and manage >>>> ICT industrial incubation parks and technology >>>> parks together with associated facilities on sites, estates and land. >>>> ? Partner with agents within and without the country to >>>> carry out such >>>> functions as it may consider necessary. >>>> ? To transform and empower society through deployment and >>>> use of ICTs. >>>> ? Carry out any other activity to promote and develop ICT >>>> products and >>>> services. >>>> Have a restful Easter as we await the limited range 4G, yes >>>> you guessed >>>> it I >>>> still have a 3G issue and I am in Nairobi. >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrac k%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Barrack O. Otieno >>> Geneva >>> Skype: barrack.otieno >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe or >>> change your options at >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jam bo.co.ke >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous >>> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >>> --------------------------------------------- >>> "easy access to the world" >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content >> by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >> --------------------------------------------- >> "easy access to the world" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: solo.mburu@gmail.com Unsubscribe or >> change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu%40 gmail.com >> > > > -- > Solomon Mb?r? Kamau > P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi > Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 > > Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will > graze all the same way to the side of a hill! > > AND > > It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! > > http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com http://smiley2.wordpress.com > http://mburu.sikika.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com Unsubscribe > or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrac k%40gmail.com >
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Al Kags,
That is why this town hall meeting may be important. Actually Harry (Hare), came up with a more brilliant idea that would require us to make this to be more of an evaluation process - that would create a "need" for either overhaul or improvement in structures and processes. This could be enacted by Govt, either through legislation, or an executive decision.
Mr. Kukubo, also had a good suggestion that we cast the net wider, to draw in as many stakeholers as we can. This, I suppose would be be a perfect chance for us, to tick each of these agencies off the list, enumerating their roles, mandate, and how this all should fit in the bigger picture across the national ICT Landscape. I suppose, we need to hold to account those tasked with a mandate..
So I suppose, the question we should be asking ourselves, is where do we first start - The town hall meeting..? And how do we cast this net wider for participation..?
Harry
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Al Kags Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:45 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Gilda, you are right that all organisations need to meet their obligations effectively. I wonder though whether some of them are not duplicated? especially some that we have seen listed on this thread?
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, <godera@skyweb.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Harry,
I believe the various organisations are all playing their own unique roles. Key thing is for each to meet it's obligations effectively. Tim Waema's proposal on the discussion of various organisations and their mandate is no doubt a good idea to get things cleared and for industry to continue giving their input so that the organisations are well designed.
Best,
Gilda
Quoting Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>:
S. Murigi,
Hey is it an ipad you typing on....?? Anyways, just on a lighter note...
So, what could be the best way forward? It seems, we just got a whole
of organizations out here, some of them I'm hearing for the 1st time..
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry> =comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of S.Murigi Muraya Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:25 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
About 2 years ago went to the KICTB offices then at Waiyaki Way. My
then was to find out what they were about.
Was referred to a visibly irritated fellow who was done with me in less
1 minute only telling me to check the KICTB website.
Have waited to see what they would come up with and am not too disappointed. For one they organize, co sponsor or market industry events that yuppies can be involved in without falling asleep. Being sort of experienced in the professional tech skills development field this can authoritatively say
myriad purpose than this
is one of the 'enabling situations' we have lacked locally.
We need skills but companies are not willing to train unethical techies who jump ship immediately after being sharpened. On the other hand techies are unable to effectively educate themselves without corporate or tech community support eg. www.ihub.co.ke
Training centers are not too doing well financially & cannot hire the best (often more experienced) techies because corporates are not training as much as they should. By working with industry giants (eg Google, Microsoft, Oracle) & their partners the KICTB is somehow helping educate techies via these industry events.
If anything, the KICTB needs to exist for this purpose -> to help build capacity in the local tech industry. They are exposing budding software entreprenuers to Indian outsourcing practices to name another 'situation' they are enabling. GITS, NCS etc do not do this as far as I know.
Nimechoka - typing on a mobile.
SMM
-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 16:52 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Dr. Siganga,
Your write up makes sense, i guess we have been mixing too many issues, in other words we handle government agencies and industry associations separately, sounds like the meeting is a welcome idea, i suggest government agencies first.
Regards
Hi Evans, all - we have discussed the issue of a statutory body to regulate ICT professionalism on this list in the past and the discussion did not go far. Some said that we would be interfering with "innovation". Some mentioned Bill Gates as a guy who has done much but does not have any professional qualification. Yet others had other stories (e.g. the three blind men story from Brian and his note to Walu on 7/7/08:
I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
On 10/9/08 on this list I re-introduced the topic of a statutory body such as LSK,ICPAK, ... to guide the ICT profession. In my mail I even included a "draft ICT Professionals Act". The idea received cold water except from Kamotho.
One distinction between "profession" and "Industry". In my mind I see statutory bodies as more regulating "profession" rather than "industry". Industry bodies are normally private sector initiatives formed by interested persons to achieve common goals. I can be surprised to hear the government being asked to help set up an "industry" association of any type. Private sector associations engage the government, so how can the same government be involved in their set up? The other axiomatic thing about associations is that the ones that do not deliver invariably die a natural death - and there are many examples of this in Kenya even within ICT. It is not difficult to set up a membership association (just like a Church or Club which are set up under
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: the same "Societies Act").
People cannot be stopped from setting up associations because the Constitution guarantees freedom of association. This means those who have any bright ideas that are not accommodated by existing associations cannot have an excuse or choose to take up the role of professional hecklers of existing associations.
Within ICT we agreed some years to accommodate multiple associations which then converge under KEPSA umbrella to offer a unified voice. This I think is working very well as recently exemplified at the Prime Minister's Round Table where ICT issues were very well articulated.
With regard to Prof's suggestion to discuss government agencies and private sector associations at the same meeting I think that would create much confusion and even opportunities for red herrings to be thrown around. It is mixing oranges and apples. The word "association" is actually a short form. The exact terminology is "membership association". An association is made up of members who voluntarily come together and run their interests. The members have their own channels to discuss their issues. It does not take much imagination to realize that someone who is NOT a "member" is unlikely to have overflowing goodwill towards (leave alone information about) the association. However, associations face a lot of challenges and a specific get together of associations to discuss best practices and ways of being sustainable and more effective would be welcome. The Business Advocacy Fund is for example doing a great and positive job in the direction of capacity building and funding. Well done to
Hey Charles, This is quite a good initiative - however, it may also seem not so many people within this fraternity might be aware of the Federation. It would be good to sensitize and create an awareness regarding the role & objective of each specific organization we come up with. Looks to me this whole thing of "splinter" groups just bedevills almost every section of the society. Maybe so that we keep this whole debate focused and on course, let's have all the 'would-be' stakeholders, participating in such forums as "Kictanet", and the rest who are like-minded in their individual capacity - engage Govt, and other sectors, and deal.. This should foster progress, so that we do not let enclaves cloud up this noble purpose.. Harry -----Original Message----- From: charles nduati [mailto:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:49 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke; bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT ASSOCIATIONS MERGER Hi listers, I have truly enjoyed this debate especially having been the first founding executive director of KENYA ICT FEDERATION (KIF) With other industry captains like mike eldon our founder chairman and all chairmen of the then 12 existing ICT associations i.e. 2003. our vision was exactly what this debate is about and we anchored KIF under KEPSA. as Dr. siganga said, there is no need of recreating the wheel. just contact Dr. kevit desai the KIF governor at KEPSA and ask him to adopt all ICT associations and stakeholders in KEPSA through KIF. believe me folks, if the ROMAN KING CONSTANTINE hadn t merged all christian sects and made himself the first POPE, christianity would not have survived 2000 years and be so successful in its mission good day all charles nduati On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:34 EEST Harry Delano wrote: them.
Another useful type of meeting is the type you refer to that was held at KICC a couple of years ago where associations can inform a wider audience about their activities and roles and, perhaps, recruit more members. Overall, an associations' meeting should be a focused one and not be mixed up with one for government agencies; and guest list should be expanded from Prof's limiting suggestion of "the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective" to include those which are effective so that others can learn from them as well.
Waudo www.cskonline.org
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:38 -0500, ikua@lpakenya.org wrote:
Dear listers, Did we not have a similar meeting not too long ago? I think it was about two years or so. Cant remember who had organized it but it was there at KICC. Same theme of taking stock of all ICT bodies. Cant remember if the Government agencies were represented.
Not that I have a problem with yet another similar meeting, but we need to clearly set out what we want to achieve with that kind of gathering. Its common knowledge that the ICT industry is awash with all manner of associations/organizations and Government bodies. Isn't it time that we had the sort of organization that we see with other professions like Accountants and Lawyers etc? Isn't it time that the Government created a statutory industry association? This can easily be achieved by such legislation as the policy document presented by the PS the other day, or the Communications Act that was passed not too long ago.
Inasmuch as the Government so believes in the increasing importance that ICT plays in the economy, then its imperative that we have an industry body that would take care of all others, say like a CSK that is recognized by an Act of parliament.
Regards, Ikua
Quoting Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com>:
Dear all, The discussion needs to be on the institutional framework for ICTs in Kenya, not just on KICTB. It needs to cover KICTB, NCS and DEG/GITS. It also needs to include the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective. I can organize such a townhall meeting in Chiromo like the first one. However, for such a meeting to be useful, it needs to be preceded by some guided discussion on the same. Alternatively, one or two persons can prepare presenations to guide the discussions, with these presentations being made available earlier for participants to acquint with them. I am also prepared to be one of those persons. tim
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Daktari,
Thank you for setting the ball rolling, not sure i saw the document as well it must have been hijacked. A town hall meeting is a welcome idea i second it, Kippra felt sufficiently philanthropic before the last town hall meeting i wonder whether they can double their offer during this easter season, bwn Magolo can we count on you. Walu can set the agenda.
Regards
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote: > On 04/04/2010, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: >> Barrack, >> Several posts have come by on the role of ICT and I think it >> will be wise >> if we sorted this in a town hall meeting similar to one we >> had on Malili. >> Honestly it feels as though some Neanderthal decided to >> create these agencies without putting some thought to it. >> Criticisms are good only when you point out where there are gaps. >> >> The other day I posted a policy proposal for comments but >> only one person >> did respond. What it means then is that this forum ni ya >> kuchongoana tu. > > Dakitari, with due respect, would you mind resending the > policy proposals as a new thread so that interested parties may respond? > If sent within this thread, I'm afraid they'll be swallowed > along the way. > >> Which really is unfortunate. I have four other policy >> proposals that I really think should push through then >> arouse sufficient interest from the >> membership here. > > I also think you should send them so that we react to the contents! >> >> >> Ndemo. >> >> >>> This is truly "Jicho Pevu", i think some answers to this >>> questions are very much in order as we celebrate Easter, >>> can someone provide us with a list of all agencies involved >>> in ICTs and ICT4D so that we can do some tooth comb >>> analysis, i saw a post from Paul on what the board has >>> achieved early this year, that was very much in order we >>> need something from NCS as well plus any other agencies. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Vitalis Olunga >>> <volunga@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> There is also another body , National Communications >>>> Secretarait. What is the diffrence between NCS and ICT >>>> Baord and how do the two bodies relate >>>> with respect to advisory services to the governement on >>>> ICT matters? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Vitalis >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> >>>> To: volunga@yahoo.com >>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 12:03:22 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I rest my case on this issue, the ICT Board is a monolith, >>>> Try reading this... (pdf file), as I feared it is mandated >>>> to do anything and everything under the sun that could be >>>> called ICT which includes your microwave oven and copier. >>>> Functions of Kenya ICT Board The core functions of Kenya >>>> ICT Board as documented in the Kenya Gazette >>>> Legal Notice No 26 of the May 2007: >>>> ? To advice the government on all relevant matters >>>> pertaining to development, coordination (remember the PM >>>> post) and promotion of ICT industries in the country. >>>> ? Promote both locally and internationally the >>>> opportunities for investments in ICT technology ? >>>> Facilitate and manage ICT industrial incubation parks and technology >>>> parks together with associated facilities on sites, >>>> estates and land. >>>> ? Partner with agents within and without the country to >>>> carry out such >>>> functions as it may consider necessary. >>>> ? To transform and empower society through deployment and >>>> use of ICTs. >>>> ? Carry out any other activity to promote and develop ICT >>>> products and >>>> services. >>>> Have a restful Easter as we await the limited range 4G, >>>> yes you guessed >>>> it I >>>> still have a 3G issue and I am in Nairobi. >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.bar rac k%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Barrack O. Otieno >>> Geneva >>> Skype: barrack.otieno >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe >>> or change your options at >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40 jam bo.co.ke >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous >>> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >>> --------------------------------------------- >>> "easy access to the world" >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous >> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >> --------------------------------------------- >> "easy access to the world" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: solo.mburu@gmail.com Unsubscribe >> or change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu %40 gmail.com >> > > > -- > Solomon Mb?r? Kamau > P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi > Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 > > Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will > graze all the same way to the side of a hill! > > AND > > It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of > ambiguous generosity! > > http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com > http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.bar rac k%40gmail.com >
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This would be highly welcome. It also shows that as much as we accuse the Government of having a disjointed approach to ICT, we in the private sector are not doing any better. Maybe its time to eat our own dog food. Ikua Quoting Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>:
Hey Charles,
This is quite a good initiative - however, it may also seem not so many people within this fraternity might be aware of the Federation. It would be good to sensitize and create an awareness regarding the role & objective of each specific organization we come up with. Looks to me this whole thing of "splinter" groups just bedevills almost every section of the society. Maybe so that we keep this whole debate focused and on course, let's have all the 'would-be' stakeholders, participating in such forums as "Kictanet", and the rest who are like-minded in their individual capacity - engage Govt, and other sectors, and deal..
This should foster progress, so that we do not let enclaves cloud up this noble purpose..
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: charles nduati [mailto:charlesnduati2002@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:49 AM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke; bm@jkuates.jkuat.ac.ke Cc: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT ASSOCIATIONS MERGER
Hi listers,
I have truly enjoyed this debate especially having been the first founding executive director of KENYA ICT FEDERATION (KIF) With other industry captains like mike eldon our founder chairman and all chairmen of the then 12 existing ICT associations i.e. 2003. our vision was exactly what this debate is about and we anchored KIF under KEPSA. as Dr. siganga said, there is no need of recreating the wheel. just contact Dr. kevit desai the KIF governor at KEPSA and ask him to adopt all ICT associations and stakeholders in KEPSA through KIF.
believe me folks, if the ROMAN KING CONSTANTINE hadn t merged all christian sects and made himself the first POPE, christianity would not have survived 2000 years and be so successful in its mission
good day all
charles nduati
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:34 EEST Harry Delano wrote:
Al Kags,
That is why this town hall meeting may be important. Actually Harry (Hare), came up with a more brilliant idea that would require us to make this to be more of an evaluation process - that would create a "need" for either overhaul or improvement in structures and processes. This could be enacted by Govt, either through legislation, or an executive decision.
Mr. Kukubo, also had a good suggestion that we cast the net wider, to draw in as many stakeholers as we can. This, I suppose would be be a perfect chance for us, to tick each of these agencies off the list, enumerating their roles, mandate, and how this all should fit in the bigger picture across the national ICT Landscape. I suppose, we need to hold to account those tasked with a mandate..
So I suppose, the question we should be asking ourselves, is where do we first start - The town hall meeting..? And how do we cast this net wider for participation..?
Harry
_____
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Al Kags Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:45 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Gilda, you are right that all organisations need to meet their obligations effectively. I wonder though whether some of them are not duplicated? especially some that we have seen listed on this thread?
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, <godera@skyweb.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Harry,
I believe the various organisations are all playing their own unique roles. Key thing is for each to meet it's obligations effectively. Tim Waema's proposal on the discussion of various organisations and their mandate is no doubt a good idea to get things cleared and for industry to continue giving their input so that the organisations are well designed.
Best,
Gilda
Quoting Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>:
S. Murigi,
Hey is it an ipad you typing on....?? Anyways, just on a lighter note...
So, what could be the best way forward? It seems, we just got a whole
of organizations out here, some of them I'm hearing for the 1st time..
Harry
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry> =comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of S.Murigi Muraya Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:25 PM To: harry@comtelsys.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
About 2 years ago went to the KICTB offices then at Waiyaki Way. My
then was to find out what they were about.
Was referred to a visibly irritated fellow who was done with me in less
1 minute only telling me to check the KICTB website.
Have waited to see what they would come up with and am not too disappointed. For one they organize, co sponsor or market industry events that yuppies can be involved in without falling asleep. Being sort of experienced in the professional tech skills development field this can authoritatively say
is one of the 'enabling situations' we have lacked locally.
We need skills but companies are not willing to train unethical techies who jump ship immediately after being sharpened. On the other hand techies are unable to effectively educate themselves without corporate or tech community support eg. www.ihub.co.ke
Training centers are not too doing well financially & cannot hire the best (often more experienced) techies because corporates are not training as much as they should. By working with industry giants (eg Google, Microsoft, Oracle) & their partners the KICTB is somehow helping educate techies via these industry events.
If anything, the KICTB needs to exist for this purpose -> to help build capacity in the local tech industry. They are exposing budding software entreprenuers to Indian outsourcing practices to name another 'situation' they are enabling. GITS, NCS etc do not do this as far as I know.
Nimechoka - typing on a mobile.
SMM
-----Original Message----- From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 16:52 To: murigi.muraya@gmail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked
Dr. Siganga,
Your write up makes sense, i guess we have been mixing too many issues, in other words we handle government agencies and industry associations separately, sounds like the meeting is a welcome idea, i suggest government agencies first.
Regards
Hi Evans, all - we have discussed the issue of a statutory body to regulate ICT professionalism on this list in the past and the discussion did not go far. Some said that we would be interfering with "innovation". Some mentioned Bill Gates as a guy who has done much but does not have any professional qualification. Yet others had other stories (e.g. the three blind men story from Brian and his note to Walu on 7/7/08:
I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
On 10/9/08 on this list I re-introduced the topic of a statutory body such as LSK,ICPAK, ... to guide the ICT profession. In my mail I even included a "draft ICT Professionals Act". The idea received cold water except from Kamotho.
One distinction between "profession" and "Industry". In my mind I see statutory bodies as more regulating "profession" rather than "industry". Industry bodies are normally private sector initiatives formed by interested persons to achieve common goals. I can be surprised to hear the government being asked to help set up an "industry" association of any type. Private sector associations engage the government, so how can the same government be involved in their set up? The other axiomatic thing about associations is that the ones that do not deliver invariably die a natural death - and there are many examples of this in Kenya even within ICT. It is not difficult to set up a membership association (just like a Church or Club which are set up under
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: the same "Societies Act").
People cannot be stopped from setting up associations because the Constitution guarantees freedom of association. This means those who have any bright ideas that are not accommodated by existing associations cannot have an excuse or choose to take up the role of professional hecklers of existing associations.
Within ICT we agreed some years to accommodate multiple associations which then converge under KEPSA umbrella to offer a unified voice. This I think is working very well as recently exemplified at the Prime Minister's Round Table where ICT issues were very well articulated.
With regard to Prof's suggestion to discuss government agencies and private sector associations at the same meeting I think that would create much confusion and even opportunities for red herrings to be thrown around. It is mixing oranges and apples. The word "association" is actually a short form. The exact terminology is "membership association". An association is made up of members who voluntarily come together and run their interests. The members have their own channels to discuss their issues. It does not take much imagination to realize that someone who is NOT a "member" is unlikely to have overflowing goodwill towards (leave alone information about) the association. However, associations face a lot of challenges and a specific get together of associations to discuss best practices and ways of being sustainable and more effective would be welcome. The Business Advocacy Fund is for example doing a great and positive job in the direction of capacity building and funding. Well done to
myriad purpose than this them.
Another useful type of meeting is the type you refer to that was held at KICC a couple of years ago where associations can inform a wider audience about their activities and roles and, perhaps, recruit more members. Overall, an associations' meeting should be a focused one and not be mixed up with one for government agencies; and guest list should be expanded from Prof's limiting suggestion of "the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective" to include those which are effective so that others can learn from them as well.
Waudo www.cskonline.org
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:38 -0500, ikua@lpakenya.org wrote:
Dear listers, Did we not have a similar meeting not too long ago? I think it was about two years or so. Cant remember who had organized it but it was there at KICC. Same theme of taking stock of all ICT bodies. Cant remember if the Government agencies were represented.
Not that I have a problem with yet another similar meeting, but we need to clearly set out what we want to achieve with that kind of gathering. Its common knowledge that the ICT industry is awash with all manner of associations/organizations and Government bodies. Isn't it time that we had the sort of organization that we see with other professions like Accountants and Lawyers etc? Isn't it time that the Government created a statutory industry association? This can easily be achieved by such legislation as the policy document presented by the PS the other day, or the Communications Act that was passed not too long ago.
Inasmuch as the Government so believes in the increasing importance that ICT plays in the economy, then its imperative that we have an industry body that would take care of all others, say like a CSK that is recognized by an Act of parliament.
Regards, Ikua
Quoting Mwololo Tim <timwololo@gmail.com>:
Dear all, The discussion needs to be on the institutional framework for ICTs in Kenya, not just on KICTB. It needs to cover KICTB, NCS and DEG/GITS. It also needs to include the plethora of ICT industry associations that are not effective. I can organize such a townhall meeting in Chiromo like the first one. However, for such a meeting to be useful, it needs to be preceded by some guided discussion on the same. Alternatively, one or two persons can prepare presenations to guide the discussions, with these presentations being made available earlier for participants to acquint with them. I am also prepared to be one of those persons. tim
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
> Daktari, > > Thank you for setting the ball rolling, not sure i saw the > document as well it must have been hijacked. A town hall > meeting is a welcome idea i second it, Kippra felt sufficiently > philanthropic before the last town hall meeting i wonder > whether they can double their offer during this easter season, > bwn Magolo can we count on you. Walu can set the agenda. > > Regards > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau > <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 04/04/2010, bitange@jambo.co.ke <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: > >> Barrack, > >> Several posts have come by on the role of ICT and I think it > >> will be > wise > >> if we sorted this in a town hall meeting similar to one we > >> had on > Malili. > >> Honestly it feels as though some Neanderthal decided to > >> create these agencies without putting some thought to it. > >> Criticisms are good only when you point out where there are gaps. > >> > >> The other day I posted a policy proposal for comments but > >> only one > person > >> did respond. What it means then is that this forum ni ya > >> kuchongoana > tu. > > > > Dakitari, with due respect, would you mind resending the > > policy proposals as a new thread so that interested parties may respond? > > If sent within this thread, I'm afraid they'll be swallowed > > along the > way. > > > >> Which really is unfortunate. I have four other policy > >> proposals that I really think should push through then > >> arouse sufficient interest from > the > >> membership here. > > > > I also think you should send them so that we react to the contents! > >> > >> > >> Ndemo. > >> > >> > >>> This is truly "Jicho Pevu", i think some answers to this > >>> questions are very much in order as we celebrate Easter, > >>> can someone provide us with a list of all agencies involved > >>> in ICTs and ICT4D so that we can do some tooth comb > >>> analysis, i saw a post from Paul on what the board has > >>> achieved early this year, that was very much in order we > >>> need something from NCS as well plus any other agencies. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Vitalis Olunga > >>> <volunga@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >>>> There is also another body , National Communications > >>>> Secretarait. What is the diffrence between NCS and ICT > >>>> Baord and how do the two bodies > relate > >>>> with respect to advisory services to the governement on > >>>> ICT matters? > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Vitalis > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> > >>>> To: volunga@yahoo.com > >>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > >>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > >>>> Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 12:03:22 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Who is ICT Board? Hijacked > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I rest my case on this issue, the ICT Board is a monolith, > >>>> Try reading this... (pdf file), as I feared it is mandated > >>>> to do anything and everything under the sun that could be > >>>> called ICT which includes your microwave oven and copier. > >>>> Functions of Kenya ICT Board The core functions of Kenya > >>>> ICT Board as documented in the Kenya > Gazette > >>>> Legal Notice No 26 of the May 2007: > >>>> ? To advice the government on all relevant matters > >>>> pertaining to development, coordination (remember the PM > >>>> post) and promotion of ICT industries in the country. > >>>> ? Promote both locally and internationally the > >>>> opportunities for investments in ICT technology ? > >>>> Facilitate and manage ICT industrial incubation parks and > technology > >>>> parks together with associated facilities on sites, > >>>> estates and land. > >>>> ? Partner with agents within and without the country to > >>>> carry out > such > >>>> functions as it may consider necessary. > >>>> ? To transform and empower society through deployment and > >>>> use of > ICTs. > >>>> ? Carry out any other activity to promote and develop ICT > >>>> products > and > >>>> services. > >>>> Have a restful Easter as we await the limited range 4G, > >>>> yes you > guessed > >>>> it I > >>>> still have a 3G issue and I am in Nairobi. > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> kictanet mailing list > >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >>>> > >>>> This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com > >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >>>> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.bar > rac > k%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Barrack O. Otieno > >>> Geneva > >>> Skype: barrack.otieno > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> kictanet mailing list > >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >>> > >>> This message was sent to: bitange@jambo.co.ke Unsubscribe > >>> or change your options at > >>> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40 > jam > bo.co.ke > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------- > >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous > >>> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > >>> --------------------------------------------- > >>> "easy access to the world" > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------- > >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous > >> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > >> --------------------------------------------- > >> "easy access to the world" > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> This message was sent to: solo.mburu@gmail.com Unsubscribe > >> or change your options at > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu > %40 > gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Solomon Mb?r? Kamau > > P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi > > Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 > > > > Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will > > graze all the same way to the side of a hill! > > > > AND > > > > It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of > > ambiguous > generosity! > > > > http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com > > http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: otieno.barrack@gmail.com > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.bar > rac > k%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > Palais de Nations Genéve > Skype: barrack.otieno > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: timwololo@gmail.com Unsubscribe or > change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timwololo% > 40g > mail.com >
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participants (4)
-
charles nduati -
Harry Delano -
ikua＠lpakenya.org -
Walubengo J