Unbelievably to the point. These examples from Bill can never be any better...I now know what Civil Society should really be about... My only problem is that I am not sure whether we have resolved the original issue:- Should we merge, cooperate or patner the two lists? Either way, I must confess that I am glad that the issue has raised more questions than answers... walu.

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Bill Kagai <billkagai@gmail.com> 09/26/05 07:26PM >>> On 9/26/05, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com> wrote: Hi Bill,

I agree with you that "organizations representing or improving the environment where private sector interests thrive cannot [necessarily] be justified as Civil Society". However I do not agree with your assertion that these organizations "do not care and neither would they address the social implications of their direct actions. " This is a very strong but wrong statement. The majority of successful organizations in the private sector run well documented social responsibilty programs, unless I have mis-understood you.

Hi Waudo, You got me wrong!! Let me use two or three examples to illustrate my point on social implications. 1. We know that internet exchange points have been established, fibre has been rolled around the metropolis, direct VSATs licensed...and realistically...though debatable, internet costs should go down. Has this happened?? No!! Because we cannot expect organisations fighting regulatory and licensing affairs to also fight the battle for consumers. Real Civil Society has to take up the issue of pushing for consumer protection in a multi-stakeholder environment to force a price reduction. 2. When a mobile telephone company at any one time holds kshs 9.00 from each subscriber in their 3.1 million subscriber base..at any one time, that translates to kshs 27,900,000 at any one time. Whilst the mobile company might have good reasons for that, perhaps Civil Society can lobby that the interest accruing from that account is used to champion ICT or any other humanitarian rights equivalent to that amount. Telecommunication organisations might champion other interests but certainly not those that are in direct conflict with those of their members. These are just but two fallacies (by example) that only true Civil Society can champion...if the proper support goes to the right organisations. But again, they are hypothetical. [No persons are meant to be hurt in these examples and all characters are fictitious. Any resemblance to an entity that fits the description is purely by coincidence and any insinuation is highly regretted.] --- Submitted by: Bildad Kagia <billkagai@gmail.com> 2005-09-26 12:31:37 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo@kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-102682Q@lyris.idrc.ca