Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting
Hi Eric and Washington, There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily pay for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting companies access to the IXP. One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; a) Local part $x per MB b) International part $x per MB c) Rack Space $x With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. This would make the business case better for most hosting business and they would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the internationally hosted sites via the ISP. Joe Mucheru
On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan <eric@afrispa.org> wrote:
Dear Mr. Washington,
You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to share some light on how to solve the problem.
It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business would develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost.
However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if we all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and host them locally, the demand would trigger supply.
On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with the generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand.
Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is that for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the attitudinal change.
Eric here
On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all,
I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out that the CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to monitor the service quality levels of the ISP's.
On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you guest it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no better they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of this web sites are?
The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which has some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director Kokubo.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 KEnya
It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can only be purchased by ISPs. One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing themselves enough.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
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Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now"
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-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks.
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA +254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) +254 722522135 Mobile http://www.google.com This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks.
Strange! I thought this is what we do since 4 years! A Rack Space, good enough for TBs of hosted Webspace is USD 250,- per month. The KIXP link is on fiber and international bandwidth can be bought separately! Rgds Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Mucheru To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting Hi Eric and Washington, There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily pay for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting companies access to the IXP. One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; a) Local part $x per MB b) International part $x per MB c) Rack Space $x With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. This would make the business case better for most hosting business and they would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the internationally hosted sites via the ISP. Joe Mucheru On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan <eric@afrispa.org> wrote: Dear Mr. Washington, You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to share some light on how to solve the problem. It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business would develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost. However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if we all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and host them locally, the demand would trigger supply. On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with the generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand. Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is that for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the attitudinal change. Eric here On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote: On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi all, I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out that the CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to monitor the service quality levels of the ISP's. On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you guest it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no better they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of this web sites are? The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which has some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director Kokubo. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 KEnya It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can only be purchased by ISPs. One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing themselves enough. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: eric@afrispa.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mucheru@google.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mucheru%40google.com -- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA +254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) +254 722522135 Mobile http://www.google.com This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks. -- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA +254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) +254 722522135 Mobile http://www.google.com This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 PM, Kai Wulff <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Strange!
I thought this is what we do since 4 years! A Rack Space, good enough for TBs of hosted Webspace is USD 250,- per month. The KIXP link is on fiber and international bandwidth can be bought separately!
Kai, Doesn't that still support (albeit partially) the cost factor? There is also the stability of the links (LL). KIXP is on fiber, but some participants' pipes are always full and inefficient. They invest more on Int'l traffic than local, just as you'd expect. I believe Mucheru's explanation would help out, but in general, ISP are still not that generous with their charges either. Before we lose track of the original post, there are definately pertinent reasons why even some ISPs still prefer to host outside, not just the webhosting companies, and it kinda comes back to what we all know - bandwidth charges - as the major reason.
----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Mucheru To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting
Hi Eric and Washington,
There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily pay for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting companies access to the IXP.
One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; a) Local part $x per MB b) International part $x per MB c) Rack Space $x
With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. This would make the business case better for most hosting business and they would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the internationally hosted sites via the ISP.
Joe Mucheru
On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan <eric@afrispa.org> wrote:
Dear Mr. Washington,
You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to
It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business would
develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost.
However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if we
all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and host them locally, the demand would trigger supply.
On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in
infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with the generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand.
Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is that
for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the attitudinal change.
Eric here
On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all,
I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out that
share some light on how to solve the problem. the
CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to monitor the service quality levels of the ISP's.
On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you guest it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no better they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of this web sites are?
The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which has some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director Kokubo.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 KEnya
It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can only be purchased by ISPs. One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing themselves enough.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: eric@afrispa.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org
Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now"
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This message was sent to: mucheru@google.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mucheru%40google.com
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks.
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
________________________________
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
I do agree with you Wash, though partially, look at Korea they have the most bandwidth and most of it is local because most of their content is hosted locally. We need to do the same and although Satellite bandwidth is expensive, economies of scale plus the time difference factor, that means most of the Diaspora use the bandwidth when we are asleep, could be factored in. My two cents! On Nov 26, 2007 6:41 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 PM, Kai Wulff <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Strange!
I thought this is what we do since 4 years! A Rack Space, good enough
for
TBs of hosted Webspace is USD 250,- per month. The KIXP link is on fiber and international bandwidth can be bought separately!
Kai, Doesn't that still support (albeit partially) the cost factor? There is also the stability of the links (LL). KIXP is on fiber, but some participants' pipes are always full and inefficient. They invest more on Int'l traffic than local, just as you'd expect. I believe Mucheru's explanation would help out, but in general, ISP are still not that generous with their charges either. Before we lose track of the original post, there are definately pertinent reasons why even some ISPs still prefer to host outside, not just the webhosting companies, and it kinda comes back to what we all know - bandwidth charges - as the major reason.
----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Mucheru To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting
Hi Eric and Washington,
There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily pay for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting companies access to the IXP.
One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; a) Local part $x per MB b) International part $x per MB c) Rack Space $x
With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. This would make the business case better for most hosting business and they would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the internationally hosted sites via the ISP.
Joe Mucheru
On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan <eric@afrispa.org> wrote:
Dear Mr. Washington,
You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to
It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business
would develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost.
However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if
we all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and host them locally, the demand would trigger supply.
On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in
infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with
Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is
Eric here
On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all,
I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out
share some light on how to solve the problem. the generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand. that for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the attitudinal change. that the
CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to monitor the service quality levels of the ISP's.
On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you guest it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no better they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of this web sites are?
The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which has some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director Kokubo.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 KEnya
It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can only be purchased by ISPs. One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing themselves enough.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
This message was sent to: eric@afrispa.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org
Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now"
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-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to
wrong person. Thanks.
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mucheru%40google.com the the
wrong person. Thanks. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
________________________________
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
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-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA +254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) +254 722522135 Mobile http://www.google.com This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks.
The hosting issue also depends on the intended market\ audience. Why host a site locally which will have 80% of it's visitors coming from europe or the US. This will put low paying traffic on your expensive link. If the content is local and meant for local access then it makes sense to host it locally though again here you have the unreasonable local hosting charges that one compares with the $ 3.99 per month on some site in the US. If you think with your pocket and have the means to pay you will take the $3.99 deal against the local deal. The problem being here that if i do this it is ultimately the service provider who has the link and also the high hosting rates who surfers by delivering what could have been local content via the expensive link for a nominal benefit. I'm surprised that hosting companies do not have access to the KIXP. In UG though we are yet to have hosting companies asking for access the UIXP has a fully open door policy you just have to meet the IP requirements which are a registered block of IP's and a BGP capable router. Anyone should be able to peer, though what happens when you do that is that the incumbents and this time i mean all existing ISP's who peer will adjust their pricing to enable hosting companies to co-locate. Thus market forces will invetably come into play. It might be here that KIXP policys are contibuting to local high hosting costs. I might be wrong and stand to be corrected. regards Joseph Mucheru wrote:
I do agree with you Wash, though partially, look at Korea they have the most bandwidth and most of it is local because most of their content is hosted locally. We need to do the same and although Satellite bandwidth is expensive, economies of scale plus the time difference factor, that means most of the Diaspora use the bandwidth when we are asleep, could be factored in.
My two cents!
On Nov 26, 2007 6:41 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com <mailto:odhiambo@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 PM, Kai Wulff <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke <mailto:kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke>> wrote: > > > Strange! > > I thought this is what we do since 4 years! A Rack Space, good enough for > TBs of hosted Webspace is USD 250,- per month. The KIXP link is on fiber and > international bandwidth can be bought separately!
Kai, Doesn't that still support (albeit partially) the cost factor? There is also the stability of the links (LL). KIXP is on fiber, but some participants' pipes are always full and inefficient. They invest more on Int'l traffic than local, just as you'd expect. I believe Mucheru's explanation would help out, but in general, ISP are still not that generous with their charges either. Before we lose track of the original post, there are definately pertinent reasons why even some ISPs still prefer to host outside, not just the webhosting companies, and it kinda comes back to what we all know - bandwidth charges - as the major reason.
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joseph Mucheru > To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke <mailto:kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:29 > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting > > Hi Eric and Washington, > > There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the > obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting > companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily pay > for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting > companies access to the IXP. > > One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; > a) Local part $x per MB > b) International part $x per MB > c) Rack Space $x > > With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and > be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. > This would make the business case better for most hosting business and they > would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is > still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the > internationally hosted sites via the ISP. > > Joe Mucheru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan < eric@afrispa.org <mailto:eric@afrispa.org>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Washington, > > > > > > > > > You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to > share some light on how to solve the problem. > > > > > > > > > It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business would > develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost. > > > > > > > > > However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if we > all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and > host them locally, the demand would trigger supply. > > > > > > > > > On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in > infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with the > generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand. > > > > > > > > > Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is that > for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so > in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the > attitudinal change. > > > > > > > > > Eric here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out that > the > > > CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to > monitor > > > the service quality levels of the ISP's. > > > > > > > > > On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio > > > streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you > guest > > > it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no > better > > > they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of > > > this web sites are? > > > > > > > > > The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which > has > > > some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director > Kokubo. > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > Robert Yawe > > > KAY System Technologies Ltd > > > Phoenix House, 6th Floor > > > P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 > > > KEnya > > > > > > > > > It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the > > > cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company > > > was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be > > > competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced > > > costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to > > > pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged > > > internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). > > > Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, > > > otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. > > > I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes > > > entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have > > > been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is > > > another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect > > > 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can > > > only be purchased by ISPs. > > > One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company > > > that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient > > > access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing > > > themselves enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Best regards, > > > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > > > Nairobi,KE > > > +254733744121/+254722743223 > > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > > > > > > "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" > > > --from a /. post > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > > > > This message was sent to: eric@afrispa.org <mailto:eric@afrispa.org> > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric M.K Osiakwan > > > Executive Secretary > > > AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org <http://www.afrispa.org>) > > > Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 > > > Fax: + 233.21.258811 > > > Cell: + 233.244.386792 > > > Handle: eosiakwan > > > Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North > > > Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North > > > Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ > > > Slang: "Tomorrow Now" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > This message was sent to: mucheru@google.com <mailto:mucheru@google.com> > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mucheru%40google.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Joe Mucheru > > Office Lead, East Africa > > Google Kenya > > 7th Floor, Purshottam Place > > Westlands Road > > P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands > > Nairobi, > > KENYA > > > > +254 20 360 1701 Office > > +254 20 360 1100 Fax > > +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) > > > > +254 722522135 Mobile > > > > > > http://www.google.com > > > > This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this > communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please > erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the > wrong person. Thanks. > > > > -- > Joe Mucheru > Office Lead, East Africa > Google Kenya > 7th Floor, Purshottam Place > Westlands Road > P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands > Nairobi, > KENYA > > +254 20 360 1701 Office > +254 20 360 1100 Fax > +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus) > > +254 722522135 Mobile > > > http://www.google.com > > This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this > communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please > erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the > wrong person. Thanks. > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > ________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke <mailto:kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: odhiambo@gmail.com <mailto:odhiambo@gmail.com> > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com > >
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
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-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hey, anybody attending the above ongoing conference. could we have someone blogging out the key events/highlights/announcements? walu. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
Hi Walu, In my view the BPO conference was a great event and well attended by both local and international business delegates, perhaps beyond the expectations of the organizers. I am yet to secure copies of speeches by both the PS (opening) and the Minister (closing) so can not comment about these two as I missed both due to unavoidable circumstances. Still I heard delegates praising Bitange Ndemo's opening speech. Nevertheless, I participated in most of the presentations and debates for the too days. Congrats to Sean and the team. A few issues that I captured were; O Kenyans are ready to invest into the business, NOT enough info requirements are readily available in the public domain. More public awareness job for BPO Society and the Kenya ICT Board. A lady delegate from UK expressed her concern that most people are asking for basic information. O It was clear from the international presenters that Kenya is currently NOT in the global picture. Even to be a leading player in Africa is going to be an uphill task. Take e.g. Ghana has over 3000 BPOs in place compared to Kenya's about 16 BPOs. Both ICT Board and the BPO Society have a lot of work ahead, without ignoring local opportunities. O A challenge to the Kenya by the international delegates is; there is need to sell Africa first before selling as a country, then move to individual companies. The likes of Kencall seem to have defied this order to be where they are today. O What can Kenya achieve before Fibre Optic reaches Mombasa. O One advantage for sure over the rest of Africa and India is; our girls and boys speak the Queens language better than the rest. Remember these are only my personal observations as we wait for Sean's briefing, guys want to hear more. Regards, Akich D. Kwach Director - Research & Operations ARCHWAY Technology Mobile:+254 722 742155 Tel: +254 20 4778026 e-mail: <mailto:kwach@archway-productions.com> kwach@archway-productions.com <http://www.archway-productions.com> www.archway-productions.com *** Market & Social Research for Development *** -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+kwach=archway-productions.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kwach=archway-productions.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of John Walubengo Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:08 AM To: kwach@archway-productions.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: [kictanet] Re : Any news from BPO confrence @ Safari Park, Nairobi,KE? Hey, anybody attending the above ongoing conference. could we have someone blogging out the key events/highlights/announcements? walu. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: kwach@archway-productions.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kwach%40archway-product ions.com
You think 250 USD for 4U is expensive? Ask London Telehouse! Surely, as long as the content is not relevant for the local market, then you will need international capacity (which is expensive ..) ... Kai -----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo Washington [mailto:odhiambo@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 18:42 To: Kai Wulff Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 PM, Kai Wulff <kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Strange!
I thought this is what we do since 4 years! A Rack Space, good enough for TBs of hosted Webspace is USD 250,- per month. The KIXP link is on fiber
and
international bandwidth can be bought separately!
----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Mucheru To: kai.wulff@kdn.co.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Faith in local web hosting
Hi Eric and Washington,
There is another way to look at this. Why is it cheaper overseas? the obvious answer is that bandwidth there is local. In which case the hosting companies are not charged high fees for bandwidth. The infact primarily
for peering with other networks. In our case we are yet to give hosting companies access to the IXP.
One way to solve this is for ISPs to provide an "unbundled" hosting service; a) Local part $x per MB b) International part $x per MB c) Rack Space $x
With such a setup it is much easier for webhosting companies to emerge and be very creative and at the same time compete with international players. This would make the business case better for most hosting business and
would not have to pay the high costs. Right now the high bandwidth cost is still paid for by the consumer since they still have to access the internationally hosted sites via the ISP.
Joe Mucheru
On Nov 26, 2007 7:48 AM, Eric Osiakwan <eric@afrispa.org> wrote:
Dear Mr. Washington,
You have stated the obvious which is the challenge but let me try to
share some light on how to solve the problem.
It is really a chicken an egg situation, the localhosting business
would develop based on demand but like you said demand is relative to cost.
However in the interest of developing our countries and continent if
we all commit to having country code top level domain (in this case .ke) and host them locally, the demand would trigger supply.
On the other hand if the local entrepreneurs can invest in
infrastructure and based on market study provide competitive rates (with
generic TLDs) then again the supply could trigger the demand.
Having said that, i have noticed something under the sun, which is
Eric here
On 26 Nov 2007, at 08:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007 8:03 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all,
I have raised this issue before when I did a search and found out that
for some reason African just dont like using what other Africans produce so in some ways the former strategy would work better if we deal with the attitudinal change. the
CCK web site was hosted overseas and thus how can we expect them to monitor the service quality levels of the ISP's.
On Sunday I visited the Kibaki web site, I experienced unstable audio streaming so I decided to find out where the site was hosted, yes you guest it overseas. The other 2 presidential candidates web sites are no better they are not locally hosted. Is this a reflection of who the targets of this web sites are?
The Kibaki site is developed by one 3Mice, if I remember right, which has some association with newly appointed ICT Board Managing Director Kokubo.
Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 KEnya
It's not the faith the people have in local hosting, but rather the cost factor. Last time I looked at this web hosting biz, one company was charging KES 1,000+VAT per month, which was what was though to be competitive. Another one entered into the fray with hype about reduced costing charges, but I am not sure how much business they managed to pick. All the same, their charges did not compare with what is charged internationally (I mean in Europe and the US). Websites is not something that has caught up with many Kenyans, otherwise the volumes would help sustain such businesses locally. I believe the lack of volumes is one of the factors that makes entities like 3Mice to host overseas. Top-notch Kenyan techies have been hosting their Blog with blogspot (overseas). Bandwidth costs is another. In Europe and the US, individuals can afford to connect 10MBps in their kitchens while in Kenya, that kind of bandwidth can only be purchased by ISPs. One last question though: Do you know any reliable webhosting company that hosts it's websites locally, and has reliable and efficient access to those websites? If there is one, they are not marketing themselves enough.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post
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This message was sent to: eric@afrispa.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org
Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA ( www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now"
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This message was sent to: mucheru@google.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mucheru%40google.com
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to
wrong person. Thanks.
-- Joe Mucheru Office Lead, East Africa Google Kenya 7th Floor, Purshottam Place Westlands Road P O Box 66217 - 00800 Westlands Nairobi, KENYA
+254 20 360 1701 Office +254 20 360 1100 Fax +254 20 360 1000 Switch Board (Regus)
+254 722522135 Mobile
This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to
Kai, Doesn't that still support (albeit partially) the cost factor? There is also the stability of the links (LL). KIXP is on fiber, but some participants' pipes are always full and inefficient. They invest more on Int'l traffic than local, just as you'd expect. I believe Mucheru's explanation would help out, but in general, ISP are still not that generous with their charges either. Before we lose track of the original post, there are definately pertinent reasons why even some ISPs still prefer to host outside, not just the webhosting companies, and it kinda comes back to what we all know - bandwidth charges - as the major reason. pay they the that the the
wrong person. Thanks. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
________________________________
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-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
participants (7)
-
badru Ntege -
John Walubengo -
Joseph Mucheru -
Kai U. Wulff -
Kai Wulff
-
Kwach -
Odhiambo Washington