Hi, We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards. Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses. As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
As far as I know, the government did its best including postponing this process and also giving a three-month grace period for people to comply. That is what is called good governance. Now, anyone who was affected has only themselves to blame. James On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@James, I believe what Mr yawe is asking is whether there is a way to make the standards body accountable for its actions or lack thereof in ensuring that the goods we have on our shelves are of the recommended standard. If they are not in a position to do so, what chance does that Kenyan willing to purchase a product from a shop somewhere have of knowing whether that phone has attained the minimum required standard for safe use? At work you are charged with a responsibility in one way or another, and when things hit the fan. You need to explain. If there is no channel to come back and request for accountability from you, then there really is no deterrent to doing a shoddy job. 0.02 Sh. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:43 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
As far as I know, the government did its best including postponing this process and also giving a three-month grace period for people to comply.
That is what is called good governance.
Now, anyone who was affected has only themselves to blame.
James
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: the
tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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for
people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- ------------------------ the one thing microsoft word has taught me is that to make a point you have to use a bullet... ./ken
Simiyu Are you suggesting the "grey" phones switched off had KEBS mark of quality? James On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:05 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> wrote:
@James, I believe what Mr yawe is asking is whether there is a way to make the standards body accountable for its actions or lack thereof in ensuring that the goods we have on our shelves are of the recommended standard. If they are not in a position to do so, what chance does that Kenyan willing to purchase a product from a shop somewhere have of knowing whether that phone has attained the minimum required standard for safe use?
At work you are charged with a responsibility in one way or another, and when things hit the fan. You need to explain. If there is no channel to come back and request for accountability from you, then there really is no deterrent to doing a shoddy job.
0.02 Sh.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:43 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:
As far as I know, the government did its best including postponing this process and also giving a three-month grace period for people to comply.
That is what is called good governance.
Now, anyone who was affected has only themselves to blame.
James
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
--
------------------------
the one thing microsoft word has taught me is that to make a point you have to use a bullet...
./ken
Hello Bobby, The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets! On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Dear listers where is the so called Consumer Federation of Kenya in all this, what is there role anyways. I am a victim and am "innocent". ________________________________ From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> To: memakunat@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners Hello Bobby, The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets! On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
It's not possible to involve the CFK in this. It's not their responsibility to ensure that you always buy genuine merchandise! That is your personal responsibility. Everyone knows that cheap is expensive. If you bought this phone from a shop, take it back to them and lay a claim for indemnity, but read the fine print on the receipt they issued you with before you go back to them! On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:23 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com>wrote:
Dear listers where is the so called Consumer Federation of Kenya in all this, what is there role anyways. I am a victim and am "innocent".
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> *To:* memakunat@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:11 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
where is the so called Consumer Federation of Kenya in all this, what is there role anyways. I am a victim and am "innocent".
________________________________ From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> To: memakunat@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies
Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/odhiambo%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online
I just fail to understand what is fake and what is not fake. i have a samsung mobile phone that does not give me an imei number upon pressing the *#06#. then i check at the back and find the imei on the bar code then send it to the 1555 the it turns out that the phone is original. note that the phone was bought from a trusted supermarket. as much as its my responsibility to know what am buyintg at what point do you draw the line that a particular product is fake especially in the above situation. ________________________________ From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> To: memakunat@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners It's not possible to involve the CFK in this. It's not their responsibility to ensure that you always buy genuine merchandise! That is your personal responsibility. Everyone knows that cheap is expensive. If you bought this phone from a shop, take it back to them and lay a claim for indemnity, but read the fine print on the receipt they issued you with before you go back to them! On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:23 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com> wrote: Dear listers that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/memakunat%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Wash Your assertion that we ought to read the fine print does not always hold true since few can appreciate T&Cs. I was out off town on Friday and I can assure you I interacted with may folks who were worried stiff of losing there phones due to the switch off. 90% of that number cannot understand any fine print! KeBS and other related bodies must do there jobs as consumer protection ought to be in the spirit of there work. Nyaggs On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
It's not possible to involve the CFK in this. It's not their responsibility to ensure that you always buy genuine merchandise! That is your personal responsibility. Everyone knows that cheap is expensive. If you bought this phone from a shop, take it back to them and lay a claim for indemnity, but read the fine print on the receipt they issued you with before you go back to them!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:23 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com>wrote:
Dear listers where is the so called Consumer Federation of Kenya in all this, what is there role anyways. I am a victim and am "innocent".
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> *To:* memakunat@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:11 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Bosire, Are you trying to justify illiteracy as an excuse in these circumstances? Anyone who can use a phone is considered literate enough:-) Well, whoever goes to the shop to buy a phone shoulders the responsibility of reading and understanding the T&Cs. There is no excuse whatsoever. The literacy is assumed and NOT excused. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Nyagitari Bosire <nyagitari@gmail.com>wrote:
@Wash
Your assertion that we ought to read the fine print does not always hold true since few can appreciate T&Cs. I was out off town on Friday and I can assure you I interacted with may folks who were worried stiff of losing there phones due to the switch off. 90% of that number cannot understand any fine print! KeBS and other related bodies must do there jobs as consumer protection ought to be in the spirit of there work.
Nyaggs
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
It's not possible to involve the CFK in this. It's not their responsibility to ensure that you always buy genuine merchandise! That is your personal responsibility. Everyone knows that cheap is expensive. If you bought this phone from a shop, take it back to them and lay a claim for indemnity, but read the fine print on the receipt they issued you with before you go back to them!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:23 PM, meshack emakunat <memakunat@yahoo.com>wrote:
Dear listers where is the so called Consumer Federation of Kenya in all this, what is there role anyways. I am a victim and am "innocent".
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> *To:* memakunat@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:11 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Hi. Allow me to disagree. Dr Mutua would have done better. You seem to be an apologist for wrong decisions? You appear to always defend the status quo? Are you immune to change? Reason Kenyans passed a new Constitution was to deal with such hard nuts (corruption at borders) to crack! Understandably, and being practical, it won't be easy to eliminate it. But it won't take a genius to know that a lot of ground has shifted. In a nutshell, a credible online forum such as this one ought to give solutions and hope, however long it takes. I don't see it in you. I stand corrected. Nice weekend! Stephen Mutoro On Oct 2, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Stephen, I am very sure you know and understand what I am saying, and that it is something we have to live with. I am not an apologist and would be last person to defend the status quo, but my brother, there are always boundaries to everything! There are certain boundaries you'd rather not even attempt to cross. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Stephen Mutoro <smutoro@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi. Allow me to disagree. Dr Mutua would have done better. You seem to be an apologist for wrong decisions? You appear to always defend the status quo? Are you immune to change? Reason Kenyans passed a new Constitution was to deal with such hard nuts (corruption at borders) to crack! Understandably, and being practical, it won't be easy to eliminate it. But it won't take a genius to know that a lot of ground has shifted. In a nutshell, a credible online forum such as this one ought to give solutions and hope, however long it takes. I don't see it in you. I stand corrected. Nice weekend!
Stephen Mutoro
On Oct 2, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bobby,
The Kenyan border is quite porous - by design and I can tell you that there is very little you, as Bobby, can do to change that, because it is as difficult as fighting the Mafia - or come closer home, the hard drug menace. There are so many vested interests which make the border porous and this starts with the Border Agency officers and goes along top include the security officers, because at the top of the pyramid is a well-connected fellow. If you stop his merchandise from coming in, there are two possible scenarios: Either you get transferred or eliminated if you become a thorn in the flesh. That is why there is no reason to blame KEBS, because they don't quite police the borders - it isn't their mandate! Theirs is to verify/certify. You must be quite naive (kidding!) to expect KEBS to control imports sanctioned by fat cats<LOL> when they can't even enforce standards on foodstuff found in our supermarkets!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, robert yawe < <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent Kenya Union of Teachers (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT? In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearsons Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE. GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers. The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Irelands five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education? Ndemo.
I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT?
In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE.
GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers.
The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education?
Ndemo.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | *T*: +254 720 406 093 | *E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro |*Skype *: kariukiphares | *B*: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
We must move away from offering exams once a year to two or three times a year. This will enable fast learners to finish, move on and leave space for more learners. Further, examinations should never be a government core activity. This is why we have too many people with certificates but cannot help themselves. Learning is supposed to be pleasurable such that we can identify talent and nurture it. We have for example doctors without passion or ability but we continue to admit students to medical schools based on grades. We should never attempt to control education in any way. As Robinson says, children are not goods with sale by date. Learning is a process. Whether it takes you 12 years or 15 years to finish high school, it does not matter. What matters is whether you like what you are doing. Since we have IT availability throughout the country, we should start continuous assessment such that the final exam will constitute only 40%. This effectively will emasculate thousands of young girls who fall through the cracks simply because they are able to afford sanitary towels and stay in school. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:41:38 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT?
In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE.
GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers.
The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education?
Ndemo.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | *T*: +254 720 406 093 | *E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro |*Skype *: kariukiphares | *B*: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
+1, x100 :-) Your points sounded very much like a practicing teacher - and I perhaps you still are. As a Mwalimu, I see the hunger Kenyans have for a Certificate rather than for Knowledge. If there was a supermarket legally selling degrees, most of our Universities will be empty. At a lower level (Primary School), I sympathise with my Std 6 son, who comes home everyday with a ton of homework that when compared to my days in school - is just too much and too deep for his level (in other words, they are like cramming Std 7/8 work in order to perfect the same by the time they get there) And so my question has been, if our Kenyan kids have struggled through this crazy stuff, how comes we dont have so many Nobel Prize Winners? (well apart from our beloved, the late Prof. M. Waangai). Further, if our Kenyan kids have successfully emerged from this heavy academic load at Primary and Secondary levels, how comes they are not innovating at the University levels as much as the Koreans, Indians, Chinese, etc? The answer ofcourse is rote-learning. In other words, our kids are drilled to PASS but not to THINK. And it does not matter whether they are in Public or Private schools. As long as they must face the same hurdle at the end of the Primary and Secondary School, their target and mechanism to overcome is the same. Drill, Drill, Drill and then pass. So whereas providing technology to speed up marking of exams maybe good, it would be better to recast the whole philosophy of our Education System. Lets have a framework that allows learners to flow with their talent. We have contradictory examples like the Nameless and Wahu - great Kenyan Musicians who did (am avoiding to say "drilled") the "wrong" degrees. Nameless successfully did his BSc Arch and his wife BSc Mathematics. Both of them then parked their Certificates with their parents and then followed their dreams. If their talents had been identified and natured at the Primary level, we could be looking at many Kenyans who could be the next MJ or Miriam Makebas. walu. ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future We must move away from offering exams once a year to two or three times a year. This will enable fast learners to finish, move on and leave space for more learners. Further, examinations should never be a government core activity. This is why we have too many people with certificates but cannot help themselves. Learning is supposed to be pleasurable such that we can identify talent and nurture it. We have for example doctors without passion or ability but we continue to admit students to medical schools based on grades. We should never attempt to control education in any way. As Robinson says, children are not goods with sale by date. Learning is a process. Whether it takes you 12 years or 15 years to finish high school, it does not matter. What matters is whether you like what you are doing. Since we have IT availability throughout the country, we should start continuous assessment such that the final exam will constitute only 40%. This effectively will emasculate thousands of young girls who fall through the cracks simply because they are able to afford sanitary towels and stay in school. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® ________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:41:38 +0300 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent
Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT?
In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE.
GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers.
The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education?
Ndemo.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro |Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The perpetual merry-go-round has to be shorted for it to be fixed. The double intake and the rearrangement of the university semester is a step in the right direction I think. The two years wasted waiting to be admitted to university after sitting for KCSE are the most wasteful period in a students life. In my opinion J.A.B should also be abolished. The shotgun approach to applying for university is wasteful and drops people int courses they had no interest in pursuing. hence frustration, lethargy and the perpetual struggle to get into 'management' and the few specialists who are actually passionate get overworked. Let people apply personally to each department for the particular course they want to pursue. The primary school kids I see at 5AM walking to school go through a special kind of hell and only serves to teach suffering and perseverance in return for a grade. No fun no value. Its a precursor to the drab work life devoid of meaning, purpose and well being. Just walk in to most government offices and see how miserable the workers look. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
+1, x100 :-)
Your points sounded very much like a practicing teacher - and I perhaps you still are. As a Mwalimu, I see the hunger Kenyans have for a Certificate rather than for Knowledge. If there was a supermarket legally selling degrees, most of our Universities will be empty. At a lower level (Primary School), I sympathise with my Std 6 son, who comes home everyday with a ton of homework that when compared to my days in school - is just too much and too deep for his level (in other words, they are like cramming Std 7/8 work in order to perfect the same by the time they get there)
And so my question has been, if our Kenyan kids have struggled through this crazy stuff, how comes we dont have so many Nobel Prize Winners? (well apart from our beloved, the late Prof. M. Waangai). Further, if our Kenyan kids have successfully emerged from this heavy academic load at Primary and Secondary levels, how comes they are not innovating at the University levels as much as the Koreans, Indians, Chinese, etc?
The answer ofcourse is rote-learning. In other words, our kids are drilled to PASS but not to THINK. And it does not matter whether they are in Public or Private schools. As long as they must face the same hurdle at the end of the Primary and Secondary School, their target and mechanism to overcome is the same. Drill, Drill, Drill and then pass.
So whereas providing technology to speed up marking of exams maybe good, it would be better to recast the whole philosophy of our Education System. Lets have a framework that allows learners to flow with their talent. We have contradictory examples like the Nameless and Wahu - great Kenyan Musicians who did (am avoiding to say "drilled") the "wrong" degrees. Nameless successfully did his BSc Arch and his wife BSc Mathematics. Both of them then parked their Certificates with their parents and then followed their dreams. If their talents had been identified and natured at the Primary level, we could be looking at many Kenyans who could be the next MJ or Miriam Makebas.
walu.
------------------------------ *From:* "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> *To:* jwalu@yahoo.com *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Sent:* Friday, October 5, 2012 6:13 PM
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
We must move away from offering exams once a year to two or three times a year. This will enable fast learners to finish, move on and leave space for more learners. Further, examinations should never be a government core activity. This is why we have too many people with certificates but cannot help themselves.
Learning is supposed to be pleasurable such that we can identify talent and nurture it. We have for example doctors without passion or ability but we continue to admit students to medical schools based on grades.
We should never attempt to control education in any way. As Robinson says, children are not goods with sale by date. Learning is a process. Whether it takes you 12 years or 15 years to finish high school, it does not matter. What matters is whether you like what you are doing.
Since we have IT availability throughout the country, we should start continuous assessment such that the final exam will constitute only 40%. This effectively will emasculate thousands of young girls who fall through the cracks simply because they are able to afford sanitary towels and stay in school.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------ *From: * Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> *Date: *Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:41:38 +0300 *To: *<bitange@jambo.co.ke> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools.
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT?
In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE.
GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers.
The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education?
Ndemo.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| *T*: +254 720 406 093 | *E*: pkariuki@gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro |*Skype *: kariukiphares | *B*: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
True. Learning should be pleasurable. Now it is stressful, unnecessarily competitive and commercialized. Oloo Janak. ________________________________ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: williamjanak@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future We must move away from offering exams once a year to two or three times a year. This will enable fast learners to finish, move on and leave space for more learners. Further, examinations should never be a government core activity. This is why we have too many people with certificates but cannot help themselves. Learning is supposed to be pleasurable such that we can identify talent and nurture it. We have for example doctors without passion or ability but we continue to admit students to medical schools based on grades. We should never attempt to control education in any way. As Robinson says, children are not goods with sale by date. Learning is a process. Whether it takes you 12 years or 15 years to finish high school, it does not matter. What matters is whether you like what you are doing. Since we have IT availability throughout the country, we should start continuous assessment such that the final exam will constitute only 40%. This effectively will emasculate thousands of young girls who fall through the cracks simply because they are able to afford sanitary towels and stay in school. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® ________________________________ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:41:38 +0300 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent
Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT?
In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE.
GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers.
The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education?
Ndemo.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro |Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/williamjanak%40yahoo.c... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@ Mwangi, I agree with you - JAB should be abolished or its role redefined. A year ago, I went to pick my son after his final KSCE paper and was drawn towards the school’s notice board, where he and other students were busy going through the longest list of courses offered by public universities in Kenya. The school had asked them to pick whichever courses matched their ‘expected’ grade. I saw boys select courses based on the ‘big’ titles e.g. anthropology – without any idea what the courses entail! I believe the problem is lack of career guidance in our schools. In a recent conference on Careers & Mentorship, ‘appointed’ career teachers expressed their frustrations at the lack of resources to guide the students. They feel overwhelmed and frustrated, especially because they do not have the right information to guide the students as expected. In one rural school, for example, the career teacher asked the Form 2 students to go home and agree with their parents what subjects to pick/drop at Form 3! My question is, how does a school expect a semi-literate parent in rural Kenya to guide their children on subject choices? We need to learn from what Canada and the US are doing. Over 15 years ago, schools introduced games that stimulate the imagination of students by exploring their dreams about future lifestyles. Students are assisted to draw job profiles based on their dreams and learn why educational achievement is necessary to reach that position. By playing these games, students are able to relate their school experience to career choices, learn to make informed learning and life choices, discover personal skills and talents, relate learning to earning etc. Anyone interested in learning more about these tools, please contact me directly. Esther From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+emuchiri=andestbites.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of william janak Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 7:58 PM To: emuchiri@andestbites.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future True. Learning should be pleasurable. Now it is stressful, unnecessarily competitive and commercialized. Oloo Janak. _____ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: williamjanak@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future We must move away from offering exams once a year to two or three times a year. This will enable fast learners to finish, move on and leave space for more learners. Further, examinations should never be a government core activity. This is why we have too many people with certificates but cannot help themselves. Learning is supposed to be pleasurable such that we can identify talent and nurture it. We have for example doctors without passion or ability but we continue to admit students to medical schools based on grades. We should never attempt to control education in any way. As Robinson says, children are not goods with sale by date. Learning is a process. Whether it takes you 12 years or 15 years to finish high school, it does not matter. What matters is whether you like what you are doing. Since we have IT availability throughout the country, we should start continuous assessment such that the final exam will constitute only 40%. This effectively will emasculate thousands of young girls who fall through the cracks simply because they are able to afford sanitary towels and stay in school. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® _____ From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:41:38 +0300 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future I agree... Though what's really worrying at this point is the education bill, that's aiming to control private schools. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote: Ken Robinson says that schools have killed creativity. From the recent Kenya Union of Teachers’ (KNUT) strike it was evident that we are lacking in creativity. Three weeks of strike threatened the effectiveness of the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) like never before. Why is KNEC linked to KNUT? In 2010 GCSE candidates took their exam towards the end June and the results were out by August. More than 700,000 students worldwide did mathematics and English while other subjects averaged more than 350,000 candidates. At the same time about 360,000 sat for the KCSE in the same year between October and November but the results came out at the end of February. In other words marking our exams took twice as much as it took the Pearson’s Group (a private entity) to mark GCSE. GCSE exams are marked by retired teachers as well as other qualified people. It is a contract for which you are paid 800 pounds for the three to four weeks exercise. They heavily use IT to process the exams and some papers are marked by computers. The company offers a variety of qualifications, including A Levels (GCEs), Edexel (which is one of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’s five main examination boards and the BTEC suit of examination qualifications. It also offers work-based learning qualifications – including BTEC Apprenticeships through Pearson Work Based Learning, awarding over 1.5 million certificates to students around the world every year. Since we benchmark on everything, is it not time we started to benchmark on our education? Ndemo. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/pkariuki%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Warm Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/williamjanak%40yahoo.c... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor. Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around. I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work? I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect. The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop? Let us reform our educational system. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Daktari Your postings are very poignant in the sense that as we move towards a knowledge economy we seem to have forfeited the most important and basic foundation that will lead us there - our education system. There is a lot right and wrong about the current system. Free Primary education for all is and will continue to be a brilliant idea. However, when we then starve our school system of funding what then are the majority of Kenyans to do? I remember my mother's stories about my grandfather's household in a far flung place called Vanga, in Kwale District way back in the late fifties and early sixties. He was a Primary School Headmaster. The household lacked for nothing in terms of groceries and other foods. Not because he was a rich man but because the villagers would ensure he and his family lacked for nothing so that he can focus on running the primary school for the betterment of their kids!! How do we today treat our teachers? The teaching profession has now become sort of a place of 'last resort' what then do we expect when teachers strike? How do we expect a teacher who earns 10k to focus on teaching our children? Let's for a moment look at the current higher education system. There are many universities mushrooming all over the place. Is that necessarily a good thing? There is a mid tier gap that continues to grow as we transform all our tertiary institutions from the polytechnics to the village colleges into universities!! We then proceed to produce half backed graduates who are neither ready for the job market or to create jobs as entrepreneurs. The moment that a business man decides that a university is a new revenue stream for his business empire is the moment we loose the essence of nationhood and future generations. Why are great universities great? Because in my opinion they are the greatest Multi-Stakeholder Organizations every created - Blending the profit motive with doing good seamlessly and eternally. A few names come to mind. Stanford (without which Silicon Valley and great companies like Cisco, Yahoo & Google may not have had the chance to exist), IMD and Harvard. These great institutions of higher learning exist not to earn a profit but to further mankind's pursuit of excellence. If they make money in the process (and they do) it's a by product of what they do not their 'Reason for Being'. Access to ICT. A few weeks ago I wrote on this list about a school I visited behind Runda, in the informal sector next to Mji wa Huruma, the old people's home. There's couple friend of mine who decided to start a high school for the very underprivileged community. They have done the best they could and I was impressed. What depressed me was the fact that most of those students had never had access to the information superhighway. How then do we prepare our young people for a world that now literally lives online? Are we as leaders being fair to ourselves and our country and future generations? When a country like ours that is on the map worldwide for our developments in the mobile and ICT Sectors can still have pockets in our school system that have been totally forgotten? Here in Nairobi no less!! What happens in the counties is something that we may not even be ready to face... I fear sometimes that we sit in our cushy chairs in Nairobi, conduct online discourse and forget the work that still needs to be done to get our beloved country to the lofty heights of Vision 2030. Ali Hussein +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Oct 5, 2012, at 11:24 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor.
Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around.
I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?
I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect.
The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop?
Let us reform our educational system.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hussein, Thanks for the comment. Your granfather was a passionate teacher hence the community felt indebted and subsidized the Government. Today in Kenya we do not have commited teachers. They have no passion in their work. They are commercial education workers. They are the foundation of the problem. For years I have tried to help uplift education in the village I was born in. Here I try to subsidize a number of projects including paying incentives to teachers. Unfortunately, it has never worked. Most teachers come from the village. They go to school after taking care of their farms and other household chores. During the harvet period they do not attend to students at all. Some hire unemployed locals to sit in for them when they travel or there is heavy work at home. They are the matatu owners, tukutuku owners and more recently motor bike transport owners. They are effectively business men and women. Trouble is that you cannot seek their removal because they are all related to one another. From the head teacher to the chairman of the parent teachers association and even the District Education Officers. Whereas we can blame the Government for the system, we must blame the teachers and parents too for neglecting students. Most parents have abdicated their responsibilities and want to blame somebody on their failures. How do you explain a situation where a school has never taken a student to University of the past 10 years? Should we not have a performance contract in whatever system? A Havard Business Review paper says that only 20% of any community have a learning disposition. This does not mean the remaining 80% is useless but one we can equip with skills rather than forced academic exercise. In Germany the ratio of academics to technicians fall within the estimates of these research. There is also a movement called the 21st Century Learning Disposition. Here you begin to understand that even leadership starts with the learning systems. For example, if truely we want to deal with corruption, we must start with the way we learn and incorporate such topics as leadership and responsibility, critical thinking and so on. It is important to know that we are not alone in trying to establish the correct balance in education but we should not be the last in joining such a movement. We therefore need to have ALL teachers transfered just like any civil servant. Rejuvinate our mid-level colleges and change the current system of education. These cannot be done if this debate remains a virtual exercise and by hoping that somebody somewhere will bring change. We all bear the responsibility of seeing change. Ndemo.
Daktari
Your postings are very poignant in the sense that as we move towards a knowledge economy we seem to have forfeited the most important and basic foundation that will lead us there - our education system. There is a lot right and wrong about the current system.
Free Primary education for all is and will continue to be a brilliant idea. However, when we then starve our school system of funding what then are the majority of Kenyans to do?
I remember my mother's stories about my grandfather's household in a far flung place called Vanga, in Kwale District way back in the late fifties and early sixties. He was a Primary School Headmaster. The household lacked for nothing in terms of groceries and other foods. Not because he was a rich man but because the villagers would ensure he and his family lacked for nothing so that he can focus on running the primary school for the betterment of their kids!!
How do we today treat our teachers? The teaching profession has now become sort of a place of 'last resort' what then do we expect when teachers strike? How do we expect a teacher who earns 10k to focus on teaching our children?
Let's for a moment look at the current higher education system. There are many universities mushrooming all over the place. Is that necessarily a good thing? There is a mid tier gap that continues to grow as we transform all our tertiary institutions from the polytechnics to the village colleges into universities!! We then proceed to produce half backed graduates who are neither ready for the job market or to create jobs as entrepreneurs.
The moment that a business man decides that a university is a new revenue stream for his business empire is the moment we loose the essence of nationhood and future generations. Why are great universities great? Because in my opinion they are the greatest Multi-Stakeholder Organizations every created - Blending the profit motive with doing good seamlessly and eternally. A few names come to mind. Stanford (without which Silicon Valley and great companies like Cisco, Yahoo & Google may not have had the chance to exist), IMD and Harvard. These great institutions of higher learning exist not to earn a profit but to further mankind's pursuit of excellence. If they make money in the process (and they do) it's a by product of what they do not their 'Reason for Being'.
Access to ICT. A few weeks ago I wrote on this list about a school I visited behind Runda, in the informal sector next to Mji wa Huruma, the old people's home. There's couple friend of mine who decided to start a high school for the very underprivileged community. They have done the best they could and I was impressed. What depressed me was the fact that most of those students had never had access to the information superhighway. How then do we prepare our young people for a world that now literally lives online? Are we as leaders being fair to ourselves and our country and future generations? When a country like ours that is on the map worldwide for our developments in the mobile and ICT Sectors can still have pockets in our school system that have been totally forgotten? Here in Nairobi no less!! What happens in the counties is something that we may not even be ready to face...
I fear sometimes that we sit in our cushy chairs in Nairobi, conduct online discourse and forget the work that still needs to be done to get our beloved country to the lofty heights of Vision 2030.
Ali Hussein
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2012, at 11:24 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor.
Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around.
I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?
I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect.
The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop?
Let us reform our educational system.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
...and ethics. Sent from my iPhone On 2012-10-06, at 8:45 AM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
For example, if truely we want to deal with corruption, we must start with the way we learn and incorporate such topics as leadership and responsibility, critical thinking and so on
I thought you might be interested in some views concerning educatio On Oct 6, 2012 4:39 PM, <bitange@jambo.co.ke> wrote:
Hussein, Thanks for the comment. Your granfather was a passionate teacher hence the community felt indebted and subsidized the Government. Today in Kenya we do not have commited teachers. They have no passion in their work. They are commercial education workers. They are the foundation of the problem.
For years I have tried to help uplift education in the village I was born in. Here I try to subsidize a number of projects including paying incentives to teachers. Unfortunately, it has never worked. Most teachers come from the village. They go to school after taking care of their farms and other household chores. During the harvet period they do not attend to students at all. Some hire unemployed locals to sit in for them when they travel or there is heavy work at home. They are the matatu owners, tukutuku owners and more recently motor bike transport owners. They are effectively business men and women. Trouble is that you cannot seek their removal because they are all related to one another. From the head teacher to the chairman of the parent teachers association and even the District Education Officers.
Whereas we can blame the Government for the system, we must blame the teachers and parents too for neglecting students. Most parents have abdicated their responsibilities and want to blame somebody on their failures. How do you explain a situation where a school has never taken a student to University of the past 10 years? Should we not have a performance contract in whatever system?
A Havard Business Review paper says that only 20% of any community have a learning disposition. This does not mean the remaining 80% is useless but one we can equip with skills rather than forced academic exercise. In Germany the ratio of academics to technicians fall within the estimates of these research. There is also a movement called the 21st Century Learning Disposition. Here you begin to understand that even leadership starts with the learning systems. For example, if truely we want to deal with corruption, we must start with the way we learn and incorporate such topics as leadership and responsibility, critical thinking and so on. It is important to know that we are not alone in trying to establish the correct balance in education but we should not be the last in joining such a movement.
We therefore need to have ALL teachers transfered just like any civil servant. Rejuvinate our mid-level colleges and change the current system of education. These cannot be done if this debate remains a virtual exercise and by hoping that somebody somewhere will bring change. We all bear the responsibility of seeing change.
Ndemo.
Daktari
Your postings are very poignant in the sense that as we move towards a knowledge economy we seem to have forfeited the most important and basic foundation that will lead us there - our education system. There is a lot right and wrong about the current system.
Free Primary education for all is and will continue to be a brilliant idea. However, when we then starve our school system of funding what then are the majority of Kenyans to do?
I remember my mother's stories about my grandfather's household in a far flung place called Vanga, in Kwale District way back in the late fifties and early sixties. He was a Primary School Headmaster. The household lacked for nothing in terms of groceries and other foods. Not because he was a rich man but because the villagers would ensure he and his family lacked for nothing so that he can focus on running the primary school for the betterment of their kids!!
How do we today treat our teachers? The teaching profession has now become sort of a place of 'last resort' what then do we expect when teachers strike? How do we expect a teacher who earns 10k to focus on teaching our children?
Let's for a moment look at the current higher education system. There are many universities mushrooming all over the place. Is that necessarily a good thing? There is a mid tier gap that continues to grow as we transform all our tertiary institutions from the polytechnics to the village colleges into universities!! We then proceed to produce half backed graduates who are neither ready for the job market or to create jobs as entrepreneurs.
The moment that a business man decides that a university is a new revenue stream for his business empire is the moment we loose the essence of nationhood and future generations. Why are great universities great? Because in my opinion they are the greatest Multi-Stakeholder Organizations every created - Blending the profit motive with doing good seamlessly and eternally. A few names come to mind. Stanford (without which Silicon Valley and great companies like Cisco, Yahoo & Google may not have had the chance to exist), IMD and Harvard. These great institutions of higher learning exist not to earn a profit but to further mankind's pursuit of excellence. If they make money in the process (and they do) it's a by product of what they do not their 'Reason for Being'.
Access to ICT. A few weeks ago I wrote on this list about a school I visited behind Runda, in the informal sector next to Mji wa Huruma, the old people's home. There's couple friend of mine who decided to start a high school for the very underprivileged community. They have done the best they could and I was impressed. What depressed me was the fact that most of those students had never had access to the information superhighway. How then do we prepare our young people for a world that now literally lives online? Are we as leaders being fair to ourselves and our country and future generations? When a country like ours that is on the map worldwide for our developments in the mobile and ICT Sectors can still have pockets in our school system that have been totally forgotten? Here in Nairobi no less!! What happens in the counties is something that we may not even be ready to face...
I fear sometimes that we sit in our cushy chairs in Nairobi, conduct online discourse and forget the work that still needs to be done to get our beloved country to the lofty heights of Vision 2030.
Ali Hussein
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2012, at 11:24 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor.
Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around.
I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?
I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect.
The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop?
Let us reform our educational system.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Dr.Ndemo, What we have been facing and are still facing in Kenya today is simply a collapse of the value system. EVERY single sector, public or private is experiencing what you have narrated below. The change must take place starting with each individual. It is true we all must bear the responsibility to bring change. Regards, Gilda Odera On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 16:45:55 +0300 (EAT), bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Hussein, Thanks for the comment. Your granfather was a passionate teacher hence the community felt indebted and subsidized the Government. Today in Kenya we do not have commited teachers. They have no passion in their work. They are commercial education workers. They are the foundation of the problem.
For years I have tried to help uplift education in the village I was born in. Here I try to subsidize a number of projects including paying incentives to teachers. Unfortunately, it has never worked. Most teachers come from the village. They go to school after taking care of their farms and other household chores. During the harvet period they do not attend to students at all. Some hire unemployed locals to sit in for them when they travel or there is heavy work at home. They are the matatu owners, tukutuku owners and more recently motor bike transport owners. They are effectively business men and women. Trouble is that you cannot seek their removal because they are all related to one another. From the head teacher to the chairman of the parent teachers association and even the District Education Officers.
Whereas we can blame the Government for the system, we must blame the teachers and parents too for neglecting students. Most parents have abdicated their responsibilities and want to blame somebody on their failures. How do you explain a situation where a school has never taken a student to University of the past 10 years? Should we not have a performance contract in whatever system?
A Havard Business Review paper says that only 20% of any community have a learning disposition. This does not mean the remaining 80% is useless but one we can equip with skills rather than forced academic exercise. In Germany the ratio of academics to technicians fall within the estimates of these research. There is also a movement called the 21st Century Learning Disposition. Here you begin to understand that even leadership starts with the learning systems. For example, if truely we want to deal with corruption, we must start with the way we learn and incorporate such topics as leadership and responsibility, critical thinking and so on. It is important to know that we are not alone in trying to establish the correct balance in education but we should not be the last in joining such a movement.
We therefore need to have ALL teachers transfered just like any civil servant. Rejuvinate our mid-level colleges and change the current system of education. These cannot be done if this debate remains a virtual exercise and by hoping that somebody somewhere will bring change. We all bear the responsibility of seeing change.
Ndemo.
Daktari
Your postings are very poignant in the sense that as we move towards a knowledge economy we seem to have forfeited the most important and basic foundation that will lead us there - our education system. There is a lot right and wrong about the current system.
Free Primary education for all is and will continue to be a brilliant idea. However, when we then starve our school system of funding what then are the majority of Kenyans to do?
I remember my mother's stories about my grandfather's household in a far flung place called Vanga, in Kwale District way back in the late fifties and early sixties. He was a Primary School Headmaster. The household lacked for nothing in terms of groceries and other foods. Not because he was a rich man but because the villagers would ensure he and his family lacked for nothing so that he can focus on running the primary school for the betterment of their kids!!
How do we today treat our teachers? The teaching profession has now become sort of a place of 'last resort' what then do we expect when teachers strike? How do we expect a teacher who earns 10k to focus on teaching our children?
Let's for a moment look at the current higher education system. There are many universities mushrooming all over the place. Is that necessarily a good thing? There is a mid tier gap that continues to grow as we transform all our tertiary institutions from the polytechnics to the village colleges into universities!! We then proceed to produce half backed graduates who are neither ready for the job market or to create jobs as entrepreneurs.
The moment that a business man decides that a university is a new revenue stream for his business empire is the moment we loose the essence of nationhood and future generations. Why are great universities great? Because in my opinion they are the greatest Multi-Stakeholder Organizations every created - Blending the profit motive with doing good seamlessly and eternally. A few names come to mind. Stanford (without which Silicon Valley and great companies like Cisco, Yahoo & Google may not have had the chance to exist), IMD and Harvard. These great institutions of higher learning exist not to earn a profit but to further mankind's pursuit of excellence. If they make money in the process (and they do) it's a by product of what they do not their 'Reason for Being'.
Access to ICT. A few weeks ago I wrote on this list about a school I visited behind Runda, in the informal sector next to Mji wa Huruma, the old people's home. There's couple friend of mine who decided to start a high school for the very underprivileged community. They have done the best they could and I was impressed. What depressed me was the fact that most of those students had never had access to the information superhighway. How then do we prepare our young people for a world that now literally lives online? Are we as leaders being fair to ourselves and our country and future generations? When a country like ours that is on the map worldwide for our developments in the mobile and ICT Sectors can still have pockets in our school system that have been totally forgotten? Here in Nairobi no less!! What happens in the counties is something that we may not even be ready to face...
I fear sometimes that we sit in our cushy chairs in Nairobi, conduct online discourse and forget the work that still needs to be done to get our beloved country to the lofty heights of Vision 2030.
Ali Hussein
+254 773/713 601113
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2012, at 11:24 PM, bitange@jambo.co.ke wrote:
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor.
Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around.
I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?
I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect.
The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop?
Let us reform our educational system.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Daktari Thanks for sharing your journey. I like what you said: "I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?" What if, during those days, there was a system that provided you with career information on Architecture? What if the system had a way of linking you with real architects who shared their real-life experiences and allowed you to job-shadow them? I am sure you would not have listened to your friends, and we would be admiring buildings in Nairobi designed by you! To me, linking our subjects (be it in high school or university) to the real world of work is what is missing. As we reform our education system, we must create these linkages - at the lowest level possible. Esther -----Original Message----- From: bitange@jambo.co.ke [mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:25 PM To: Esther Muchiri; kictanet Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor. Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around. I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work? I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect. The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop? Let us reform our educational system. Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Great thoughts! I went through a school in the Rift Valley just a few years back, under a head teacher we the considered "legendary", the late Kendagor (RIP). For me, of course we realized much later, he was an embodiment of a teacher. Pure dedication to the "cause", always looking to ensure his students excelled, from sports to of course class work. This was a man who would be up at 4 am to make sure all boys were in class in time for morning preps, who would reward excellence and correct wrong doing, by the cane of course. This was a man that practically all students then disliked, but whom much later we came to adore as he shaped most of us to be what we are. All ex-students agree that he takes most of the credit. And like Husseins grand father, this was a man whom parents (society) always made sure he had all support he required, the parents would go out of their way to guarantee he had access to whatever he required, whether purchase of an ambulance, funding for new structures name it...... Why? Because just like Husseins Grand Father, the parents realized the need to make sure he had all he required to ensure their children came out well schooled. Do I think we appreciate our teachers? Do I think our teachers are dedicated? I don't think so. We treat our teachers like the lowest cadre of profession. We give them 3k increment spread over 5 years and we expect ululation and jubilation from them. Could this be the reason why some teachers in Daktari's village are the biggest businessmen, who only teach once their businesses and farms are taken care of. Is it the case of them wanting to supplement what they earn, or is it just the case of being Kenyan? Kenyans especially in Africa are know for always seeing the opportunity. And all Kenyans, from the ministers, to pastors, to traffic police, to teachers to some university students will always have a side business. Is it our nature or is our social structure not developed enough to guarantee most of the skilled workers a comfortable life. With all universities competing to own buildings in the CBD, and having campuses in all regions, it has simply become the next big thing. From when the module 2 studies pioneered by UoN to now, its all now commercial and seeing who can attract the most private students who pay top shilling so the university can generate extra cash. Again, maybe just being Kenyan, but in my view in the wrong way. We have now obliterated almost all quality mid level colleges and polytechnics in the hurry to turn them into University Colleges. Whether they are doing a good job at education, is another story. But these are some of the factors that are turning the education sector into a commercial monster, not necessarily with good oversight to guarantee quality. As we try to better our education system (are we?) we need to look at all factors critically, enable our children to be painters and musicians without having the stigma at these "non-science" subjects. But again our social and economic structure must be able to support these careers. Have a splendid educative Sunday! On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Esther Muchiri <emuchiri@andestbites.com>wrote:
Daktari
Thanks for sharing your journey. I like what you said: "I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?"
What if, during those days, there was a system that provided you with career information on Architecture? What if the system had a way of linking you with real architects who shared their real-life experiences and allowed you to job-shadow them? I am sure you would not have listened to your friends, and we would be admiring buildings in Nairobi designed by you! To me, linking our subjects (be it in high school or university) to the real world of work is what is missing.
As we reform our education system, we must create these linkages - at the lowest level possible.
Esther
-----Original Message----- From: bitange@jambo.co.ke [mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:25 PM To: Esther Muchiri; kictanet Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
Esther, Career choice is much more complex than we all think. When I was in grades school, I wanted to be a teacher. Reason. Teachers were the only people who wore shoes in our village. When I broke my arm and taken to hospital, I saw a doctor for the first time and I loved what they did. They were more cleaner in their white overcoats. And so I wanted to be a doctor.
Later in life I came to Nairobi and visited an uncle who was a chief accountant. I wanted to an accountant too because my uncle seemed to be doing nothing but sitting and ordering people around.
I went to US for college. Here I was made to study courses that had nothing to do with my dreams. Courses like critical thinking, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history of art, music etc. These were required before you chose your career of choice. I fell in love with history of art studying architectural designs from such eras as Gothic, Baroque etc. I never pursued either history of Art or architecture because my friends stopped me. Asking me questions like where will you work?
I should have done what I wanted. To date I get mesmerised when I see any beautiful architectural designs. I had discovered my talent but listened to short sighted friends. They perhaps did not know just like I was confused. I would have been the best architect.
The import of my story is that our institutions rush our students far too fast to decide their lifelong careers. Today we have engineers and doctors working as bank clerks. This has led to hyper inflation of educational qualification. Where work that requires high school level it is done by graduates. Where we needed graduates we have doctoral candidates. Where will this inflation stop?
Let us reform our educational system.
Ndemo.
Sent from my BlackBerryR
-----Original Message----- From: "Esther Muchiri" <emuchiri@andestbites.com> Sender: "kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:42:42 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Education and Our Future
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Daktari, with all these brilliant ideas isnt it time you gunnred for the topmost seat? i definitely would mobilise to vote you in -- Edward Lusega
Yawe, is this a case where we should ask the intermediary to take responsibility and make the necessary refunds? Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:35:24 +0100 From: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Subject: [kictanet] KeBS to re-emburse fake phone owners CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Hi, We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards. Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses. As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function. Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
The switching off of the fake phones is enough indictment of the inability or lack of willingness in executing their mandate. Question though should be, in how many other areas is KeBS looking the other way? Nyaggs On Oct 2, 2012 11:56 AM, "robert yawe" <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
KEBS is not just looking the other way. From my own personal interaction with them, they are simply dysfunctional or maybe they don't have clear guidelines on what their operations should be like. However, we cannot entirely blame them for the proliferation of substandard merchandise into this country. Several agencies are involved and fat cats can easily circumvent (if not arm-twist) KEBS. We all know this. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Nyagitari Bosire <nyagitari@gmail.com>wrote:
The switching off of the fake phones is enough indictment of the inability or lack of willingness in executing their mandate. Question though should be, in how many other areas is KeBS looking the other way?
Nyaggs On Oct 2, 2012 11:56 AM, "robert yawe" <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
+1 Washington I know for a fact that a good number of motor vehicle spares are as authentic as pink unicorns... I've seen so much noise by certain consumer bodies and just as much noise by consumers about the quality of goods and services...but none of it ever comes together. Perhaps some consumer platforms are too small to offer mileage? But I digress...I suppose using this mailing list to gripe and kvetch (hoping for online activism?) makes it on topic :) On 2 October 2012 15:09, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
KEBS is not just looking the other way. From my own personal interaction with them, they are simply dysfunctional or maybe they don't have clear guidelines on what their operations should be like. However, we cannot entirely blame them for the proliferation of substandard merchandise into this country. Several agencies are involved and fat cats can easily circumvent (if not arm-twist) KEBS. We all know this.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Nyagitari Bosire <nyagitari@gmail.com> wrote:
The switching off of the fake phones is enough indictment of the inability or lack of willingness in executing their mandate. Question though should be, in how many other areas is KeBS looking the other way?
Nyaggs
On Oct 2, 2012 11:56 AM, "robert yawe" <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
We all wish the headline in tomorrows paper would be "KeBS to refund fake owners" as to the best of my knowledge they are mandated and funded by the tax payer to make sure that the items that come into the country meet certain required usage and safety standards.
Evert time I import IT items I am charged a fee for KeBS certification what do they do with the money collected if millions of fake (no IMEI numbers) mobile phones, many of which where shipped in container loads, passed right under their nooses.
As with most issues we have a tendency of barking up the wrong tree, suing CCK is dealing with a symptom instead of dealing with the core problem which is a standards body that does no work, its time we re-outsourced the function.
Regards
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Francis Hook +254 733 504561
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS. What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us. jgitau
My phone (with a safaricom line) is KeBS certified but has just been switched off. Checking the IMEI it is all 000000000.... Also just remembered the OS was upgraded by a Samsung certified vendor - 2 years ago. Whatever they did, they probably never restored the IMEI while upgrading the OS. Off to a safaricom shop which will probably refer me to the Samsung Disti [?] On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us.
jgitau
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
@Muraya, You appear to be distorting facts. I haven't seen any phone with a KeBS certification. I'll check the phone boxes again today. Whenever a phone is upgraded, there is never an interference with the IMEI, as it is stored in the NVRAM (I suppose that's the name) and is never part of the OS partition else those of us who install unofficial ROMs on these phones would have lost their IMEIs ages ago. You sure your phone isn't Smsung? :) On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com> wrote:
My phone (with a safaricom line) is KeBS certified but has just been switched off.
Checking the IMEI it is all 000000000....
Also just remembered the OS was upgraded by a Samsung certified vendor - 2 years ago.
Whatever they did, they probably never restored the IMEI while upgrading the OS.
Off to a safaricom shop which will probably refer me to the Samsung Disti [?]
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us.
jgitau
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Just to make a few points on this thread: First, for such phones it is pretty difficult for consumers to tell the difference between a real or fake. For example, buying a mobile from a street side shop in the likes of Luthuli Ave doesn't mean that it is illegal. Much stock from there is bought thorough the legal channels, also some of the Chinese brands are above board and even (as far as I understand) Dubai 'grey' market imports should still be functional. So I'm not sure how you would know, except of course if you buy a NokLa :-)..... Second, is KEBS the real evil in this case? There's a huge amount of stuff which comes into the country without being stamped and approved, that is a fact of life and that will continue. It seems better to target the smaller number of large mobile importers/wholesales and set out a stall. Otherwise in a few months time disabling over million phones will be for nothing when the counterfeit firms start implanting fake IMEIs Thanks Chris -- Christopher Foster PhD Researcher, Centre for Development Informatics (CDI) University of Manchester, UK On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Muraya,
You appear to be distorting facts. I haven't seen any phone with a KeBS certification. I'll check the phone boxes again today.
Whenever a phone is upgraded, there is never an interference with the IMEI, as it is stored in the NVRAM (I suppose that's the name) and is never part of the OS partition else those of us who install unofficial ROMs on these phones would have lost their IMEIs ages ago.
You sure your phone isn't Smsung? :)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
My phone (with a safaricom line) is KeBS certified but has just been switched off.
Checking the IMEI it is all 000000000....
Also just remembered the OS was upgraded by a Samsung certified vendor - 2 years ago.
Whatever they did, they probably never restored the IMEI while upgrading the OS.
Off to a safaricom shop which will probably refer me to the Samsung Disti [?]
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us.
jgitau
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Christopher Foster mob: 07751 537350 | skype: cgfoster
I think the strategy they are taking is in destroying the demand for the IMEI-less phones. No demand no sales, no import. Flawed yes but how would you go about it? I do not think letting KEBS off the hook is a good idea. Who's responsibility is it to ensure standards? If any KEBS inspector walked to Luthuli undercover and bought several handsets that were found to not be up to par then the institution has a mandate to confiscate and burn the damned things the way they do it with fake cigarettes. They are liable for the proliferation just like the border guys. Tell me why aren't toyota side mirrors stolen in Uganda? On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Chris Foster <cgfoster@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to make a few points on this thread:
First, for such phones it is pretty difficult for consumers to tell the difference between a real or fake.
For example, buying a mobile from a street side shop in the likes of Luthuli Ave doesn't mean that it is illegal. Much stock from there is bought thorough the legal channels, also some of the Chinese brands are above board and even (as far as I understand) Dubai 'grey' market imports should still be functional. So I'm not sure how you would know, except of course if you buy a NokLa :-).....
Second, is KEBS the real evil in this case?
There's a huge amount of stuff which comes into the country without being stamped and approved, that is a fact of life and that will continue. It seems better to target the smaller number of large mobile importers/wholesales and set out a stall. Otherwise in a few months time disabling over million phones will be for nothing when the counterfeit firms start implanting fake IMEIs
Thanks Chris
-- Christopher Foster PhD Researcher, Centre for Development Informatics (CDI) University of Manchester, UK
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Muraya,
You appear to be distorting facts. I haven't seen any phone with a KeBS certification. I'll check the phone boxes again today.
Whenever a phone is upgraded, there is never an interference with the IMEI, as it is stored in the NVRAM (I suppose that's the name) and is never part of the OS partition else those of us who install unofficial ROMs on these phones would have lost their IMEIs ages ago.
You sure your phone isn't Smsung? :)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
My phone (with a safaricom line) is KeBS certified but has just been switched off.
Checking the IMEI it is all 000000000....
Also just remembered the OS was upgraded by a Samsung certified vendor - 2 years ago.
Whatever they did, they probably never restored the IMEI while upgrading the OS.
Off to a safaricom shop which will probably refer me to the Samsung Disti [?]
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us.
jgitau
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Christopher Foster mob: 07751 537350 | skype: cgfoster
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
Wash, Will also check the box. Have seen KeBS sticker on some boxes. Could have been phones bought at Safaricom (including an IDEOS that was stolen - this should be another thread) had KeBS stickers. Purchased the phone at Westgate (FoneExpress) 3 years ago this December. It came with a Samsung warranty that was honoured to upgrade the OS. The OS upgrade was one of the selling points on the box. We will see how it goes. On Oct 2, 2012 5:03 PM, "Odhiambo Washington" <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Muraya,
You appear to be distorting facts. I haven't seen any phone with a KeBS certification. I'll check the phone boxes again today.
Whenever a phone is upgraded, there is never an interference with the IMEI, as it is stored in the NVRAM (I suppose that's the name) and is never part of the OS partition else those of us who install unofficial ROMs on these phones would have lost their IMEIs ages ago.
You sure your phone isn't Smsung? :)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>wrote:
My phone (with a safaricom line) is KeBS certified but has just been switched off.
Checking the IMEI it is all 000000000....
Also just remembered the OS was upgraded by a Samsung certified vendor - 2 years ago.
Whatever they did, they probably never restored the IMEI while upgrading the OS.
Off to a safaricom shop which will probably refer me to the Samsung Disti [?]
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
What we need is proper consumer advocacy/education. For many many things. The consumers should know where to buy proper phones, and maybe some entity like cck should take on the task of educating us (which they do), carriers should ensure the sim is registered and an IMEI registers but they cant be expected to know which are fake/accurate either. in the end the consumer will bear the burden, if only to serve as a lesson. Then someone at our borders obviously fails us.
jgitau
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
+1. It could argued that operators should have never allowed invalid IMEIs to register on their networks in the first place, but this goes full circle, back to the CCK again - why the regulatory framework was not in place to prevent it in the first place. The basic features of the GSM core network could have been used to block services to counterfeits from the onset, thus reducing the burden on KEBs. That would have denied the counterfeits a foothold in the market in the first place. Several birds dead, killed with one regulatory stone. Regards, Steve
Bring this a little closer home, Steve. Where do you think KeBS was when all those substandard seatbelts were being imported? Where do you think KeBS was when all those substandard speed governors were being imported? They were very much there, and awake, but the fat cats wouldn't let them touch those imports, leave alone look at them! Someone said imports are pre-inspected/approved at source by agents of KeBS. It's just an entry in the statutes, probably. On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
+1. It could argued that operators should have never allowed invalid IMEIs to register on their networks in the first place, but this goes full circle, back to the CCK again - why the regulatory framework was not in place to prevent it in the first place.
The basic features of the GSM core network could have been used to block services to counterfeits from the onset, thus reducing the burden on KEBs. That would have denied the counterfeits a foothold in the market in the first place. Several birds dead, killed with one regulatory stone.
Regards, Steve
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
What about the anti-Counterfeit Agency? It should also be enjoined in this blame against KeBS and CCK. my 0.01 cents On 3 October 2012 13:02, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Bring this a little closer home, Steve.
Where do you think KeBS was when all those substandard seatbelts were being imported? Where do you think KeBS was when all those substandard speed governors were being imported?
They were very much there, and awake, but the fat cats wouldn't let them touch those imports, leave alone look at them!
Someone said imports are pre-inspected/approved at source by agents of KeBS. It's just an entry in the statutes, probably.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
+1. It could argued that operators should have never allowed invalid IMEIs to register on their networks in the first place, but this goes full circle, back to the CCK again - why the regulatory framework was not in place to prevent it in the first place.
The basic features of the GSM core network could have been used to block services to counterfeits from the onset, thus reducing the burden on KEBs. That would have denied the counterfeits a foothold in the market in the first place. Several birds dead, killed with one regulatory stone.
Regards, Steve
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Winning this one will be hard and fun to watch. Depending on the success criteria set, all fake phone manufacturers need to do is plug in an imei. Like 1112346 or whatever. They can be duplicates they won't care much. There is no benefit for a service provider in this. Its actually additional cost and a pain exchanging these imei database. Lots of benefit for law enforcement, great for 'original' phone manufacturers and btw what's original anyway?consumer? Who cares, just give us the rules to follow. ..remember when we had to deal with fake mac addresses? Same thing....I think sim registration and maybe forcing public ip per person tied to a registered device ( register all laptops?) will be the way to go or fancy dns like function tied to the registrar of persons and all my devices, their serials, ip,imei etc....:-).. Jgitau Sent from my iPad On 3 Oct 2012, at 12:44, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where KEBS failed. Unless the phones being switched off were actually certified by KEBS.
+1. It could argued that operators should have never allowed invalid IMEIs to register on their networks in the first place, but this goes full circle, back to the CCK again - why the regulatory framework was not in place to prevent it in the first place.
The basic features of the GSM core network could have been used to block services to counterfeits from the onset, thus reducing the burden on KEBs. That would have denied the counterfeits a foothold in the market in the first place. Several birds dead, killed with one regulatory stone.
Regards, Steve
participants (26)
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Ali Hussein -
Andy G -
Ben Akoh -
bitange＠jambo.co.ke -
Chris Foster -
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