Re: [kictanet] Netflix KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Linda Please see my responses against your comments Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda Amazon Tech Heights. Org
Hi all, I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services. Please, let us be clear what we are talking about. Best regards, Brian On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Linda
Please see my responses against your comments
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda *Amazon Tech Heights. Org*
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
In related matters, has anyone accessed the KFCB Film Classification Manual? It would be interesting to understand the parameters followed in classifying films. Regards, 2016-01-13 13:06 GMT+03:00 Brian Munyao Longwe via kictanet < [email protected]>:
Hi all,
I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services.
Please, let us be clear what we are talking about.
Best regards,
Brian
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Linda
Please see my responses against your comments
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda *Amazon Tech Heights. Org*
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
On Jan 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Brian Munyao Longwe via kictanet" < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the
people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. Although we would really like them to "come to Kenya", and probably setup a local cache. The economics of international data transit. .
Brian Umesema kama watu kumi. (Spoken like 10 wise men) Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 1:06 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services.
Please, let us be clear what we are talking about.
Best regards,
Brian
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote: Linda
Please see my responses against your comments
Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda Amazon Tech Heights. Org
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
Hi, As a new member to the list has been amazing to read the various points of view on this matter. My take is that i feel that regulators are losing touch with reality by failing to engage relevant stakeholders before decisions are made. My first concern is do we have research teams in our regulatory bodies who actually sit and advice on modern trends before they come up with opinions which lead to regulations? If so do they have the right people assisting them to get the correct and relevant information? Do they engage in research to see how other jurisdictions have handled the issues and maybe question if they can make improvements or at least make informed decisions? As a lawyer there is an intrinsic understanding of the fact that regulations must be responsive to the trends of the day otherwise the law becomes an ass(the donkey's relative). There must be a push to ensure that there is a reasonable approach to all issues and in my opinion the communication authority is acting like a voice of reason. To show the levels of disconnect by the KFCB they even used an analogy of radicalization to justify the regulation of Netflix. Someone somewhere is clearly not doing their homework. Yes there is a need to ensure morality but I doubt reacting like a high handed pariah state will help. If Netflix begins to partner with local providers then regulation will be justified however if they continue as an over the top (OTT) service then the regulators have no jurisdiction. Roemary Koech-Kimwatu +254718181644/771632344 Linkein:Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Brian
Umesema kama watu kumi. (Spoken like 10 wise men)
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 1:06 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services.
Please, let us be clear what we are talking about.
Best regards,
Brian
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Linda
Please see my responses against your comments
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda *Amazon Tech Heights. Org*
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co...
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
I think the issue of engagement with key relevant stakeholders in the tech sector is something that is very commonly mentioned in this discussion group. Or am I seeing this myself? On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi, As a new member to the list has been amazing to read the various points of view on this matter.
My take is that i feel that regulators are losing touch with reality by failing to engage relevant stakeholders before decisions are made. My first concern is do we have research teams in our regulatory bodies who actually sit and advice on modern trends before they come up with opinions which lead to regulations? If so do they have the right people assisting them to get the correct and relevant information? Do they engage in research to see how other jurisdictions have handled the issues and maybe question if they can make improvements or at least make informed decisions?
As a lawyer there is an intrinsic understanding of the fact that regulations must be responsive to the trends of the day otherwise the law becomes an ass(the donkey's relative).
There must be a push to ensure that there is a reasonable approach to all issues and in my opinion the communication authority is acting like a voice of reason. To show the levels of disconnect by the KFCB they even used an analogy of radicalization to justify the regulation of Netflix. Someone somewhere is clearly not doing their homework.
Yes there is a need to ensure morality but I doubt reacting like a high handed pariah state will help. If Netflix begins to partner with local providers then regulation will be justified however if they continue as an over the top (OTT) service then the regulators have no jurisdiction.
Roemary Koech-Kimwatu +254718181644/771632344 Linkein:Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Brian
Umesema kama watu kumi. (Spoken like 10 wise men)
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 1:06 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services.
Please, let us be clear what we are talking about.
Best regards,
Brian
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < [email protected]> wrote:
Linda
Please see my responses against your comments
*Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
Sent from my iPad
On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote:
I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows:
One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms.
Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc?
Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content?
Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have.
Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask?
Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'!
Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges?
Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script.
As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country.
Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein.
Regards
Linda *Amazon Tech Heights. Org*
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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@RosemaryYou raise an important issue here: research! I am not sure that even the sector regulator has such a department. Time to consider having this important department(s) so that whenever some pronouncements are made publicly, they can be supported with evidence. RgdsGG Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:32:39 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Netflix KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions From: [email protected] CC: [email protected] To: [email protected] Hi, As a new member to the list has been amazing to read the various points of view on this matter. My take is that i feel that regulators are losing touch with reality by failing to engage relevant stakeholders before decisions are made. My first concern is do we have research teams in our regulatory bodies who actually sit and advice on modern trends before they come up with opinions which lead to regulations? If so do they have the right people assisting them to get the correct and relevant information? Do they engage in research to see how other jurisdictions have handled the issues and maybe question if they can make improvements or at least make informed decisions? As a lawyer there is an intrinsic understanding of the fact that regulations must be responsive to the trends of the day otherwise the law becomes an ass(the donkey's relative). There must be a push to ensure that there is a reasonable approach to all issues and in my opinion the communication authority is acting like a voice of reason. To show the levels of disconnect by the KFCB they even used an analogy of radicalization to justify the regulation of Netflix. Someone somewhere is clearly not doing their homework. Yes there is a need to ensure morality but I doubt reacting like a high handed pariah state will help. If Netflix begins to partner with local providers then regulation will be justified however if they continue as an over the top (OTT) service then the regulators have no jurisdiction. Roemary Koech-Kimwatu +254718181644/771632344Linkein:Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote: Brian Umesema kama watu kumi. (Spoken like 10 wise men) Ali HusseinPrincipalHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 13 Jan 2016, at 1:06 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> wrote: Hi all, I think that one fundamental (and very important) point that most of the people demanding regulation for Netflix overlook is that Netflix has not "come to Kenya". They are not present in the country in any form or shape. They have simply "allowed" Kenyans access to their content - which is hosted outside of Kenya - in response to many years of demand. There is therefore no basis (legal or otherwise) for us to try impose any conditions on them regarding their services. Please, let us be clear what we are talking about. Best regards, Brian On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote: Linda Please see my responses against your comments Ali HusseinPrincipalHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi Sent from my iPad On 13 Jan 2016, at 8:10 AM, Linda Ochieng <[email protected]> wrote: I have been following your discussions here and my thoughts specifically on Netflix and online streaming are as follows: One, as a distributor of audio visual content, Netflix must adhere to the regulations governing distribution of such content in line with all the laws of the Republic of Kenya, irrespective of the type of medium they are using to make that content available to their target consumers. That is the only way the firm’s operations in the country can be legal. As you know, the law applies across the board and does not exempt foreign firms, or users of online platforms. Ali - Internet Governance issues are in play here and it's not cut and dried as you put. That's why you are seeing two regulators disagreeing. Why don't we then go ahead and also regulate all the other OTT (Over the Top) services like YouTube, Facebook video etc? Two, it is in interest of the country to protect our cyberspace against infiltration with content that is overly violent and damaging to our national values and morals and security. I a reliably informed that most of the movies distributed via some of these streaming services are rated as suitable for children, yet they have scenes that should not be shown to children. That is rather unfortunate, given that most of our children have access to the Internet. Whose interest are we protecting then when we support such content? Ali - There is no 'our cyberspace'. That's why it's called the World Wide Web. This suggestion to Balkanise the Internet is to the detriment of us all. We should fight it with all we have. Three and of even greater concern is the fact that British media reports have in fact indicated that some of the content circulating on these platforms requires secret codes to access, raising considerable suspicion as to what kind of information that is to be distributed in such an overt manner. What is the motive of making the information secret, beyond the subscription restrictions, we should ask? Ali - As Uhuru said - Policing should start with us. This business of us asking the government to decide for us everything even what we watch in our sitting rooms is a recipe for disaster. We don't want a Morality Police in our country. It starts with you and I. Let's desist from this mentality of 'Serikali saidia'! Four, there is concern over growing levels of pornographic material available in the country mainly originating from other countries. The source is online platforms. This should worry every good citizen. Radicalization is also one other major concern in online channels of content distribution. This is the reason why KFCB and CA should be given all the support they require by all stakeholders to ensure this kind of content is classified and regulated appropriately. In any case, who is not affected by these challenges? Ali - True. It starts with us. Regulators are not supposed to enter our homes and police us. It's instructive that KFCB and CA are reading from the same script. As I have said, everyone is bound by the law. As it is now, all content coming into the country is subject to the laws of Kenya. Without exception. Clearly then, if Netflix fails to submit their content for classification as expected by the law, their operations in Kenya will be illegal and must in that event face the full force of the laws of Kenya. Let us not be against regulation without considering its benefits to our country. Again true. However, regulators need to also understand that the script has changed. There is a new dispensation afoot. And they need to get on with the program. The days of the telegram are gone. The ITU as we know it also needs to reinvent itself. The CA fortunately is showing us positives (I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt when it comes to some of the decisions and draft laws they come up. After all we are not perfect!) and they really need to continue in the same vein. Regards LindaAmazon Tech Heights. Org _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
participants (7)
-
Ahmed Mohamed Maawy -
Ali Hussein -
Brian Munyao Longwe -
Grace Githaiga -
Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) -
Mwendwa Kivuva -
Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu