Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one? but why,block it until the 31st of May???? can the internet be made to FORGET????? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12 Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure? Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote: Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one? but why,block it until the 31st of May???? can the internet be made to FORGET????? [1]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan _facebook_12 Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman /options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com References 1. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Waudo, does that justify blocking the whole face book????? I dont think So!!! Kind Regards, On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]>wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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-- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
Well Judy much as Civil Society and Private sector like thrive well under informal environments, governments world over thrive on formalities, i suppose thats where the gap needs to be bridged for Multistakeholderism to be universally accepted On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Judy Okite <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo, does that justify blocking the whole face book????? I dont think So!!! Kind Regards,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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-- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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I equate the ban to being arrested pending investigation :-) On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Barrack Otieno <[email protected]> wrote:
Well Judy much as Civil Society and Private sector like thrive well under informal environments, governments world over thrive on formalities, i suppose thats where the gap needs to be bridged for Multistakeholderism to be universally accepted
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Judy Okite <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo, does that justify blocking the whole face book????? I dont think So!!! Kind Regards,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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-- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan. Ultimately elected Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states. My point however was that some people mis-use the Internet in a way that others, including Governments, cannot ignore. Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:13 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote: Waudo, does that justify blocking the whole face book????? I dont think So!!! Kind Regards, On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[1][email protected]> wrote: Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure? Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[2][email protected]> wrote: Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one? but why,block it until the 31st of May???? can the internet be made to FORGET????? [3]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_fa cebook_12 Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [4][email protected] [5]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [6][email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at [7]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mail man/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c...
Thank you Dr. Siganga, I fully support the position taken in the Tunis agenda from a governance perspective , the issues of sovereignty depends on the territory, we might not be well positioned to justify the action taken by Pakistan though it might have its own merit. My thoughts On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan. Ultimately elected Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states. My point however was that some people mis-use the Internet in a way that others, including Governments, cannot ignore.
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:13 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo,
does that justify blocking the whole face book????? I dont think So!!!
Kind Regards,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo
On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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-- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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Waudo, On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan.
easily subverted by the use of proxies. Ultimately elected
Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states.
Good thing the TA is non-binding then ;-) -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
McTim - Correct on the first point. However your implied relief at the non-binding nature of the TA has an invalid premise as the TA ( Section35.a. which states "Policy authority for Internet-related public policy issues is the sovereign right of States") was just stating an obvious point and so the issue of binding is immaterial. It is like stating "the sun rises in the East". Pakistan is able to do what it is doing because the whole thing is intrinsically "binding" irrespective of any formal pronouncements. Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:39 +0300, "McTim" <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan.
easily subverted by the use of proxies.
Ultimately elected
Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states.
Good thing the TA is non-binding then ;-)
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Hi McTim - a colleague tells me that the TA ia a BINDING document that was SIGNED by Heads of State. Kind Regards, Waudo Siganga On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:39 +0300, "McTim" <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan.
easily subverted by the use of proxies.
Ultimately elected
Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states.
Good thing the TA is non-binding then ;-)
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Waudo, I think they are incorrect, I was there for the PrepComs and the negotiations on creating the document, as were several of us on this list. In any case, it is not an international treaty, ratified by parliaments, so has no force of international law, despite having a few signatures by the few Heads of State who were present. It is a consensus document, which can be interpreted to mean very different things depending on ones perspective. In this case for example, (and now YouTube banned in Pakistan according to the Beeb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10130195.stm) You and others see the sovereignty clause as paramount, when others such as myself, see clauses such as 42 and others as being contradictory to your views: "42. We reaffirm our commitment to the freedom to seek, receive, impart and use information, in particular, for the creation, accumulation and dissemination of knowledge." In other words, the TA can be used to justify just about anything, so it's not a useful doc to point to IMHO. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 3:07 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi McTim - a colleague tells me that the TA ia a BINDING document that was SIGNED by Heads of State.
Kind Regards, Waudo Siganga
On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:39 +0300, "McTim" <[email protected]> wrote:
Waudo,
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Judy - The Facebook is blocked only in Pakistan.
easily subverted by the use of proxies.
Ultimately elected
Governments are responsible for application of national laws as well as the welfare and security of the people they Govern. Even the Tunis agenda stated clearly that public policy regarding the Internet is the responsibility of souvreign states.
Good thing the TA is non-binding then ;-)
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Interesting question Judy yesterday i was priviledged to sit next to two gentlemen who were debating about types of content and rights of access. I picked out from one of them that the government has a right to know the type of content being fed to its people since it had an overall effect on the culture ways which the people operated in, of course the proponent was from government and i thought he had a valid argument should i have been in the same shoes nevertheless i am sure ther might be contrasting views on the same and a valid debate could arise. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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Hi Barack - I completely agree with you that "the government has a right to know the type of content being fed to its people". This also reminds me of the discussion we had on this list earlier this year regarding irresponsible broadcasting by some FM stations. Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:14 +0200, "Barrack Otieno" <[email protected]> wrote:
Interesting question Judy yesterday i was priviledged to sit next to two gentlemen who were debating about types of content and rights of access. I picked out from one of them that the government has a right to know the type of content being fed to its people since it had an overall effect on the culture ways which the people operated in, of course the proponent was from government and i thought he had a valid argument should i have been in the same shoes nevertheless i am sure ther might be contrasting views on the same and a valid debate could arise.
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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I am surprised such a question is being asked. Being insensitive and being unsettling is not illegal. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]>wrote:
Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure?
Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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Hi Rad - If someone is about to dive from a cliff do you have to go and check from the law books whether it is illegal before stopping him? You have to recognise danger without recourse to law books. In 1994 some guys set up radio stations in Rwanda that started broadcasting material that was was insensitive and unsettling. A similar situation was felt in Kenya during the last elections. Notwithstanding that, my understanding is that what was happening on facebook is illegal in Pakistan. Even in Kenya if you do it publicly you will be arrested at least for "acting in a manner likely to cause a breach of the peace". Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:06 +0300, "Rad!" <[email protected]> wrote: I am surprised such a question is being asked. Being insensitive and being unsettling is not illegal. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, waudo siganga <[1][email protected]> wrote: Judy - The blocking could be justified. Some people are mis-using the Internet. Why should someone come up with an insensitive and unsettling idea of running a competition to draw caricutures of a religious figure? Kind Regards, Waudo On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:53 +0300, "Judy Okite" <[2][email protected]> wrote: Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one? but why,block it until the 31st of May???? can the internet be made to FORGET????? [3]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_fa cebook_12 Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [4][email protected] [5]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [6][email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at [7]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mail man/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [8][email protected] [9]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [10][email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at [11]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conra dakunga%40gmail.com References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c... 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.co...
It boils down of course to the fine line between freedom of speech and infringement of rights. What might be insensitive to some is not to others. What world would we live in if everything we find objectionable is removed? I am a Christian by the way and personally would not like caricatures of God/Jesus drawn but should i force atheists/Muslims to abide by my personal views, especially if it is an artistic dispensation? And i disagree with you on the Rwanda example. There is a world of a difference between inviting caricatures and inciting people to kill each other. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:23 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi Rad - If someone is about to dive from a cliff do you have to go and check from the law books whether it is illegal before stopping him? You have to recognise danger without recourse to law books. In 1994 some guys set up radio stations in Rwanda that started broadcasting material that was was insensitive and unsettling. A similar situation was felt in Kenya during the last elections. Notwithstanding that, my understanding is that what was happening on facebook is illegal in Pakistan. Even in Kenya if you do it publicly you will be arrested at least for "acting in a manner likely to cause a breach of the peace".
Kind Regards, Waudo
"WORD", Conrad!!! Very well said! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rad! To: roland omoresemi Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Interesting read- Pakistan to block face book.... It boils down of course to the fine line between freedom of speech and infringement of rights. What might be insensitive to some is not to others. What world would we live in if everything we find objectionable is removed? I am a Christian by the way and personally would not like caricatures of God/Jesus drawn but should i force atheists/Muslims to abide by my personal views, especially if it is an artistic dispensation? And i disagree with you on the Rwanda example. There is a world of a difference between inviting caricatures and inciting people to kill each other. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:23 PM, waudo siganga <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Rad - If someone is about to dive from a cliff do you have to go and check from the law books whether it is illegal before stopping him? You have to recognise danger without recourse to law books. In 1994 some guys set up radio stations in Rwanda that started broadcasting material that was was insensitive and unsettling. A similar situation was felt in Kenya during the last elections. Notwithstanding that, my understanding is that what was happening on facebook is illegal in Pakistan. Even in Kenya if you do it publicly you will be arrested at least for "acting in a manner likely to cause a breach of the peace". Kind Regards, Waudo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roland%40tezzasolutions...
Here is Article 19's Reaction *Pakistan: Freedom of Expression on Internet Must be Respected* Decisions by a Pakistani High Court to ban numerous international websites and services violate international human rights law. The Lahore High Court on 19 May ordered the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority to block the social network website Facebook and hundreds of other pages in response to a Facebook user calling for an “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day”. The court later ordered the blocking of YouTube for the same reason. The ban has resulted in numerous other websites also being affected, including Flickr, Wikipedia, Google, Twitter, some parts of the BBC, and accessing the internet through the Blackberry mobile service. The Express Tribune has reported that the total number of blocked websites has reached 1,000. Participants of a media forum held yesterday in Karachi to discuss the ban were attacked by protesters accusing the organisers of blasphemy. Previously, Pakistan has banned access to YouTube, Blogspot and Flickr, along with sites relating to corruption by political officials, human rights abuses by the army, nationalist political parties and religious minorities. An attempt to block YouTube in 2008 resulted in most of Pakistan being cut off from the internet after Pakistan Telecom rerouted all YouTube visitors worldwide to a false site, leading to a massive overload of traffic and YouTube being blocked worldwide for a short time. A cybercrime law adopted in 2008 authorises the death penalty for some offenses. These expansive blocks of internet content violate Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which states that all individuals have a fundamental human right to “to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers … through any other media of his choice.” Pakistan signed the ICCPR in 2008. Any curbs on the right to free expression must be strictly limited. The curb must be provided by a law which is clear and understandable, the interference must pursue a legitimate aim as set out under Article 19(3) of the ICCPR, and the restrictions must be necessary and proportionate. The blocking of millions of pages is clearly disproportionate. “Leaders of countries around the world must understand that speech and information in new media such as the internet are equally protected under the fundamental right to freedom of expression,” says Dr Agnes Callamard, ARTICLE 19 Executive Director . “It is not lawful to ban millions of pages to prevent access to a few.” ARTICLE 19 calls on the government to remove all blocks that are not justifiable under international human rights law and to reform legislation that allows for blocks to be imposed without due consideration of the freedom of expression. NOTES TO EDITORS: • For more information please contact: David Banisar, Senior Legal Counsel, ARTICLE 19, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> +44 20 7324 2500 On 20 May 2010 12:53, Judy Okite <[email protected]> wrote:
Very radical move, I would say, but is it the right one?
but why,block it until the 31st of May????
can the internet be made to FORGET?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook_12
Kind Regards, -- “To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.” Kofi Annan
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-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) +254721898732 +254736091242 Kenya
participants (7)
-
Barrack Otieno -
Grace Bomu -
Judy Okite -
McTim -
Rad! -
Roland Omoresemi -
waudo siganga