Re: [kictanet] Fears About Safaricom (was M-PESA for E-Commerce)
One very important correction - I am apparently a Board Member of the KCCT not CCK. Please correct this. I did not ask for this. We are helping with the ICT development and I guess this is why I was appointed.. It is most unfair to continue to bring up the sms and sms connection to TKL. We refunded all who we charged incorrectly and we explained the lack of connectivity. I think debating issues this way when one can blatantly say things which are misleading does not encourage real debate about real issues. I will say no more on this list Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited BlackBerry powered by Safaricom ----- Original Message ----- From: kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: Michael Joseph Cc: skunkworks@my.co.ke <skunkworks@my.co.ke>; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; ke-users <ke-internetusers@bdix.net> Sent: Fri Mar 07 12:17:13 2008 Subject: [kictanet] Fears About Safaricom (was M-PESA for E-Commerce) Indeed Washington you listened and captured my response correctly. However, Michael Joseph has asked a new very worthy question to respond to "Alex: Why are you afraid?" 1. Michael Joseph, among other big Telco faces successfully made baby steps into government and so you will now be getting income and emoluments from taxpayers kitty! Nation cartoonist last year had an "MJ for President" cartoon and in retrospect I wonder how much of a joke that really was. You are now Board member appointed under State Corporations Act through Kenya of Gazette dated Friday, 29 February, 2008. He will be a colleague serving in a Board chaired by his "independent" market regulator CCK. Should not any right thinking person have reasons to be afraid? 2. Today, CCK in Kenya Gazette of 7th March 2008 notice, publishes by two companies ( Cykim Limited and Intelligent Contacts Solutions) applying for the protested VAS license. Why did CCK not wait for the issue to be first resolved before publishing this notice, unless it had already been decided? 3. Current CCK annual report says that the commission received just 17 consumer complaints in their last reporting year of which they were able to resolve only four. Perhaps its only me but, I find 17 complaints statistically abnormal considering the industry had over 10 million mobile phone users and 2.7 million internet users. Would anyone know if CCK were ISO 10002 compliant? I would appreciate that information very much.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
4. There have been very dark clouds over your past path. These include Mobitelea (and others whose fate now hangs in the balance without an opposition and now you in government now...), charging for undelivered services (such as sms) blocking access to other networks' services etc.. I have a couple... The problem is that Safaricom morphed into a scary uncaring giant fish swallowing anything on its way and CCK sits watching. Proposed solution: The continued loss of faith and now confidence in CCK demonstrated through above few examples is sufficiently compelling to warrant its disbandment and to be replaced by another Board made up of persons with consumer, public, wider industry, business, and particularly encouraging to SMEs. A new board that will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they represent the new Kenya we need where genuine Fair Play is practiced, everyone small and big have access to prosperity. The current CCK Board endorsed Michael Joseph to serve with them.... i.e. Regulator and regulated merged. I shall not be afraid for consumers and myself thereafter. Alex On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Michael Joseph <MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
Alex:
Why are you afraid? Bill asked a question and we answered it. We could have ignored it but we felt it was good to contribute. We are continuing to develop M-Pesa and this functionality has been in development for some time. We even see a direct connection to the internet for customers to pay on-line just by clicking a link to M-Pesa.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
Regards,
Michael
CEO Safaricom Limited
Hello MJ,
I think you slightly missed the point there. Gakuru is obviously right. It's only you who may not admit the facts regarding his fears, but I want to believe his fears are well founded. I am not playing Alex Gakuru's advocate but what I believe he meant to say was the fact that Safaricom would not be willing to let entities like the original poster of this thread to take advantage of a service like M-PESA in a way that Safaricom would feel is in direct competition with it. When I initially responded to Harrison Karanja Kairo, the OP, and mentioned that he could consult with the product's R&D team at Safaricom, I did say, in my initial response something like "I am not sure they are allowed/willing to work with you on this as I already see securityissues coming up". I was expressing the same fears as Alex in a "diplomatic" manner. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, but what Harrison Karanja had wanted was something akin to grabbing that magic code that accompies an M-PESA transaction and use it to validate a transaction. So, if only to prove Gakuru wrong, could you kindly ask Pauline Vaughan to help the OP (one, Harrison Karanja) with the necessary advise regarding his query? I don't think that will be easy for you, as you are likely to let go of something you see already as a great business product, no?
Gakuru did not at all say Safaricom is bad. Well, Safaricom is big, for sure as you say, and since you know it, let me also tell you that it's so big that it's getting out of control as you are no longer quite capable of efficiently "listening to the large number of clientele whenever they have problems". This has come up before during a discussion on outsourcing. So when you talk of "big", please also consider being "big" in serving the customers, and potential competitors like Harrison.
Just my 2 cents, which you can credit to my M-PESA account below:-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: mjoseph@safaricom.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mjoseph%40safaricom.co.... The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this email if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated. The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limited disclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequences that may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personal opinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromise or damage the integrity of the recipient's information technology systems. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately delete this email from your system.
True, Alex you owe an apology for exagarating MJs role as a 'government' employee. If he is 'guilty' of being a government (KCCT) Board Member, so too are several other prominent private sector players - Merali, Nesbit, F.Muhindi amongst other newly appointed KCCT Board members. And i think it would be a disservice to KCCT - the emerging national ICT Center of Excellence - if we scared away busy personalities that would add value under the pretext that they would then collude with the Regulator. Halloo! one need NOT be a government employee in order to collude with the Regulator... walu. --- Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
One very important correction - I am apparently a Board Member of the KCCT not CCK. Please correct this. I did not ask for this. We are helping with the ICT development and I guess this is why I was appointed..
It is most unfair to continue to bring up the sms and sms connection to TKL. We refunded all who we charged incorrectly and we explained the lack of connectivity.
I think debating issues this way when one can blatantly say things which are misleading does not encourage real debate about real issues.
I will say no more on this list
Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message ----- From:
kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke
<kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
To: Michael Joseph Cc: skunkworks@my.co.ke <skunkworks@my.co.ke>; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; ke-users <ke-internetusers@bdix.net> Sent: Fri Mar 07 12:17:13 2008 Subject: [kictanet] Fears About Safaricom (was M-PESA for E-Commerce)
Indeed Washington you listened and captured my response correctly. However, Michael Joseph has asked a new very worthy question to respond to "Alex: Why are you afraid?"
1. Michael Joseph, among other big Telco faces successfully made baby steps into government and so you will now be getting income and emoluments from taxpayers kitty! Nation cartoonist last year had an "MJ for President" cartoon and in retrospect I wonder how much of a joke that really was. You are now Board member appointed under State Corporations Act through Kenya of Gazette dated Friday, 29 February, 2008. He will be a colleague serving in a Board chaired by his "independent" market regulator CCK. Should not any right thinking person have reasons to be afraid?
2. Today, CCK in Kenya Gazette of 7th March 2008 notice, publishes by two companies ( Cykim Limited and Intelligent Contacts Solutions) applying for the protested VAS license. Why did CCK not wait for the issue to be first resolved before publishing this notice, unless it had already been decided?
3. Current CCK annual report says that the commission received just 17 consumer complaints in their last reporting year of which they were able to resolve only four. Perhaps its only me but, I find 17 complaints statistically abnormal considering the industry had over 10 million mobile phone users and 2.7 million internet users. Would anyone know if CCK were ISO 10002 compliant? I would appreciate that information very much.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
4. There have been very dark clouds over your past path. These include Mobitelea (and others whose fate now hangs in the balance without an opposition and now you in government now...), charging for undelivered services (such as sms) blocking access to other networks' services etc.. I have a couple... The problem is that Safaricom morphed into a scary uncaring giant fish swallowing anything on its way and CCK sits watching.
Proposed solution:
The continued loss of faith and now confidence in CCK demonstrated through above few examples is sufficiently compelling to warrant its disbandment and to be replaced by another Board made up of persons with consumer, public, wider industry, business, and particularly encouraging to SMEs. A new board that will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they represent the new Kenya we need where genuine Fair Play is practiced, everyone small and big have access to prosperity. The current CCK Board endorsed Michael Joseph to serve with them.... i.e. Regulator and regulated merged.
I shall not be afraid for consumers and myself thereafter.
Alex
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Michael Joseph
wrote:
Alex:
Why are you afraid? Bill asked a question and we answered it. We could have ignored it but we felt it was good to contribute. We are continuing to develop M-Pesa and this functionality has been in development for some time. We even see a direct connection to the internet for customers to pay on-line just by clicking a link to M-Pesa.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
Regards,
Michael
CEO Safaricom Limited
Hello MJ,
I think you slightly missed the point there. Gakuru is obviously right. It's only you who may not admit the facts regarding his fears, but I want to believe his fears are well founded. I am not playing Alex Gakuru's advocate but what I believe he meant to say was the fact that Safaricom would not be willing to let entities like the original poster of this thread to take advantage of a service like M-PESA in a way that Safaricom would feel is in direct competition with it. When I initially responded to Harrison Karanja Kairo,
that he could consult with the product's R&D team at Safaricom, I did say, in my initial response something like "I am not sure
<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> the OP, and mentioned they are
allowed/willing to work with you on this as I already see securityissues coming up". I was expressing the same fears as Alex in a "diplomatic" manner. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, but what Harrison Karanja had wanted was something akin to grabbing that magic code that accompies an M-PESA transaction and use it to validate a transaction. So, if only to prove Gakuru wrong, could you kindly ask Pauline Vaughan to help the OP (one, Harrison Karanja) with the necessary advise regarding his query? I don't
=== message truncated ===> _______________________________________________
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Not the first time Alex is griping about board appointments. It seems that as long as it is not 'he' who is the appointee or involved in appointing then there is mischief afoot. ? . ? . I also take issue with the blatant abuse of this list for dispensing lies, half-truths and flat=out rumours. Mr. Joseph deserves an apology. We cannot afford to lose his input and insight into relevant ICT issues because of incessant misbegotten ranting. More discipline on this list please! Brian On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 07:37:30 -0800 (PST), John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
True, Alex you owe an apology for exagarating MJs role as a 'government' employee. If he is 'guilty' of being a government (KCCT) Board Member, so too are several other prominent private sector players - Merali, Nesbit, F.Muhindi amongst other newly appointed KCCT Board members.
And i think it would be a disservice to KCCT - the emerging national ICT Center of Excellence - if we scared away busy personalities that would add value under the pretext that they would then collude with the Regulator. Halloo! one need NOT be a government employee in order to collude with the Regulator...
walu. --- Michael Joseph <MJoseph@Safaricom.co.ke> wrote:
One very important correction - I am apparently a Board Member of the KCCT not CCK. Please correct this. I did not ask for this. We are helping with the ICT development and I guess this is why I was appointed..
It is most unfair to continue to bring up the sms and sms connection to TKL. We refunded all who we charged incorrectly and we explained the lack of connectivity.
I think debating issues this way when one can blatantly say things which are misleading does not encourage real debate about real issues.
I will say no more on this list
Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message ----- From:
kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke
<kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
To: Michael Joseph Cc: skunkworks@my.co.ke <skunkworks@my.co.ke>; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>; ke-users <ke-internetusers@bdix.net> Sent: Fri Mar 07 12:17:13 2008 Subject: [kictanet] Fears About Safaricom (was M-PESA for E-Commerce)
Indeed Washington you listened and captured my response correctly. However, Michael Joseph has asked a new very worthy question to respond to "Alex: Why are you afraid?"
1. Michael Joseph, among other big Telco faces successfully made baby steps into government and so you will now be getting income and emoluments from taxpayers kitty! Nation cartoonist last year had an "MJ for President" cartoon and in retrospect I wonder how much of a joke that really was. You are now Board member appointed under State Corporations Act through Kenya of Gazette dated Friday, 29 February, 2008. He will be a colleague serving in a Board chaired by his "independent" market regulator CCK. Should not any right thinking person have reasons to be afraid?
2. Today, CCK in Kenya Gazette of 7th March 2008 notice, publishes by two companies ( Cykim Limited and Intelligent Contacts Solutions) applying for the protested VAS license. Why did CCK not wait for the issue to be first resolved before publishing this notice, unless it had already been decided?
3. Current CCK annual report says that the commission received just 17 consumer complaints in their last reporting year of which they were able to resolve only four. Perhaps its only me but, I find 17 complaints statistically abnormal considering the industry had over 10 million mobile phone users and 2.7 million internet users. Would anyone know if CCK were ISO 10002 compliant? I would appreciate that information very much.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
4. There have been very dark clouds over your past path. These include Mobitelea (and others whose fate now hangs in the balance without an opposition and now you in government now...), charging for undelivered services (such as sms) blocking access to other networks' services etc.. I have a couple... The problem is that Safaricom morphed into a scary uncaring giant fish swallowing anything on its way and CCK sits watching.
Proposed solution:
The continued loss of faith and now confidence in CCK demonstrated through above few examples is sufficiently compelling to warrant its disbandment and to be replaced by another Board made up of persons with consumer, public, wider industry, business, and particularly encouraging to SMEs. A new board that will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they represent the new Kenya we need where genuine Fair Play is practiced, everyone small and big have access to prosperity. The current CCK Board endorsed Michael Joseph to serve with them.... i.e. Regulator and regulated merged.
I shall not be afraid for consumers and myself thereafter.
Alex
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Michael Joseph
wrote:
Alex:
Why are you afraid? Bill asked a question and we answered it. We could have ignored it but we felt it was good to contribute. We are continuing to develop M-Pesa and this functionality has been in development for some time. We even see a direct connection to the internet for customers to pay on-line just by clicking a link to M-Pesa.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
Regards,
Michael
CEO Safaricom Limited
Hello MJ,
I think you slightly missed the point there. Gakuru is obviously right. It's only you who may not admit the facts regarding his fears, but I want to believe his fears are well founded. I am not playing Alex Gakuru's advocate but what I believe he meant to say was the fact that Safaricom would not be willing to let entities like the original poster of this thread to take advantage of a service like M-PESA in a way that Safaricom would feel is in direct competition with it. When I initially responded to Harrison Karanja Kairo,
that he could consult with the product's R&D team at Safaricom, I did say, in my initial response something like "I am not sure
<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> the OP, and mentioned they are
allowed/willing to work with you on this as I already see securityissues coming up". I was expressing the same fears as Alex in a "diplomatic" manner. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, but what Harrison Karanja had wanted was something akin to grabbing that magic code that accompies an M-PESA transaction and use it to validate a transaction. So, if only to prove Gakuru wrong, could you kindly ask Pauline Vaughan to help the OP (one, Harrison Karanja) with the necessary advise regarding his query? I don't
=== message truncated ===> _______________________________________________
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Hi, At this rate,H. Karanja Kairo may never get a solution to his challenge. Pauline Vaughan,of Safaricom is having a solution only that 'safaricom' suggests Karanja to be a user rather than a partner in developing the product/solution. ''If you are interested in utilizing this Functionality as a business, please don't hesitate to get in touch with myself or Joseck Mudiri - the M-PESA Business Development Manager.'' Each of them have big ideas regarding the product but each can never equal the synergy of both. I would suggest that the two coraborate and come up with a superior product for all Rgds Simon brian <brian@caret.net> wrote: Not the first time Alex is griping about board appointments. It seems that as long as it is not 'he' who is the appointee or involved in appointing then there is mischief afoot. ? . ? . I also take issue with the blatant abuse of this list for dispensing lies, half-truths and flat=out rumours. Mr. Joseph deserves an apology. We cannot afford to lose his input and insight into relevant ICT issues because of incessant misbegotten ranting. More discipline on this list please! Brian On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 07:37:30 -0800 (PST), John Walubengo wrote:
True, Alex you owe an apology for exagarating MJs role as a 'government' employee. If he is 'guilty' of being a government (KCCT) Board Member, so too are several other prominent private sector players - Merali, Nesbit, F.Muhindi amongst other newly appointed KCCT Board members.
And i think it would be a disservice to KCCT - the emerging national ICT Center of Excellence - if we scared away busy personalities that would add value under the pretext that they would then collude with the Regulator. Halloo! one need NOT be a government employee in order to collude with the Regulator...
walu. --- Michael Joseph wrote:
One very important correction - I am apparently a Board Member of the KCCT not CCK. Please correct this. I did not ask for this. We are helping with the ICT development and I guess this is why I was appointed..
It is most unfair to continue to bring up the sms and sms connection to TKL. We refunded all who we charged incorrectly and we explained the lack of connectivity.
I think debating issues this way when one can blatantly say things which are misleading does not encourage real debate about real issues.
I will say no more on this list
Michael Joseph CEO Safaricom Limited
BlackBerry powered by Safaricom
----- Original Message ----- From:
kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke
To: Michael Joseph Cc: skunkworks@my.co.ke ; kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke ; ke-users
Sent: Fri Mar 07 12:17:13 2008 Subject: [kictanet] Fears About Safaricom (was M-PESA for E-Commerce)
Indeed Washington you listened and captured my response correctly. However, Michael Joseph has asked a new very worthy question to respond to "Alex: Why are you afraid?"
1. Michael Joseph, among other big Telco faces successfully made baby steps into government and so you will now be getting income and emoluments from taxpayers kitty! Nation cartoonist last year had an "MJ for President" cartoon and in retrospect I wonder how much of a joke that really was. You are now Board member appointed under State Corporations Act through Kenya of Gazette dated Friday, 29 February, 2008. He will be a colleague serving in a Board chaired by his "independent" market regulator CCK. Should not any right thinking person have reasons to be afraid?
2. Today, CCK in Kenya Gazette of 7th March 2008 notice, publishes by two companies ( Cykim Limited and Intelligent Contacts Solutions) applying for the protested VAS license. Why did CCK not wait for the issue to be first resolved before publishing this notice, unless it had already been decided?
3. Current CCK annual report says that the commission received just 17 consumer complaints in their last reporting year of which they were able to resolve only four. Perhaps its only me but, I find 17 complaints statistically abnormal considering the industry had over 10 million mobile phone users and 2.7 million internet users. Would anyone know if CCK were ISO 10002 compliant? I would appreciate that information very much.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
4. There have been very dark clouds over your past path. These include Mobitelea (and others whose fate now hangs in the balance without an opposition and now you in government now...), charging for undelivered services (such as sms) blocking access to other networks' services etc.. I have a couple... The problem is that Safaricom morphed into a scary uncaring giant fish swallowing anything on its way and CCK sits watching.
Proposed solution:
The continued loss of faith and now confidence in CCK demonstrated through above few examples is sufficiently compelling to warrant its disbandment and to be replaced by another Board made up of persons with consumer, public, wider industry, business, and particularly encouraging to SMEs. A new board that will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they represent the new Kenya we need where genuine Fair Play is practiced, everyone small and big have access to prosperity. The current CCK Board endorsed Michael Joseph to serve with them.... i.e. Regulator and regulated merged.
I shall not be afraid for consumers and myself thereafter.
Alex
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Michael Joseph
wrote:
Alex:
Why are you afraid? Bill asked a question and we answered it. We could have ignored it but we felt it was good to contribute. We are continuing to develop M-Pesa and this functionality has been in development for some time. We even see a direct connection to the internet for customers to pay on-line just by clicking a link to M-Pesa.
Why is everything we do bad? Just because we are big? We got that way by listening to our customers and delivering products and services that they wanted and would use.
Regards,
Michael
CEO Safaricom Limited
Hello MJ,
I think you slightly missed the point there. Gakuru is obviously right. It's only you who may not admit the facts regarding his fears, but I want to believe his fears are well founded. I am not playing Alex Gakuru's advocate but what I believe he meant to say was the fact that Safaricom would not be willing to let entities like the original poster of this thread to take advantage of a service like M-PESA in a way that Safaricom would feel is in direct competition with it. When I initially responded to Harrison Karanja Kairo, the OP, and mentioned that he could consult with the product's R&D team at Safaricom, I did say, in my initial response something like "I am not sure they are allowed/willing to work with you on this as I already see securityissues coming up". I was expressing the same fears as Alex in a "diplomatic" manner. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, but what Harrison Karanja had wanted was something akin to grabbing that magic code that accompies an M-PESA transaction and use it to validate a transaction. So, if only to prove Gakuru wrong, could you kindly ask Pauline Vaughan to help the OP (one, Harrison Karanja) with the necessary advise regarding his query? I don't
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participants (4)
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brian -
John Walubengo -
Michael Joseph -
simon wachira