Brian, I still stick to my guns on this issue, our 4 cement companies used to make noise about the whole cost of energy and some even threatened to relocate to cheaper locations. They are all still here and we have more and more people coming to share the cake, a cement kiln requires more power than your optimised data centre will ever need. So let us stop using road side statements to justify a position UNEP had at one time indicated that Nairobi was too unsafe, there were frequent water and power outages, and a high cost of living in Nairobi suggesting that they wanted to relocate - President Kibaki in no uncertain terms asked them to go right ahead and as they say the rest is history. We need to stop looking at issues in isolated pockets and try and get a panoramic view of a situation, Konza up until I started shouting in the wilderness was being looked at in a silo (Ministry of Information) has confirmed by the PS in his statement that he was unaware of the procedure for carrying out a development. If Konza is definitely a National project then it needs to be approached holistically and the best place would have been within the chief coordinator's office a.k.a Prime Ministry but since that did not happen and the office stands dissolved the next home for the project will have to be The Office of the President. I digress, the issue of high energy costs can be easily mitigated by other elements which I will not go into right now, we need to look at it like a manufacturing process where what matters is the price of the end product but tweaking the various components to achieve the expected price. Instead of trying to get stats on Google's data centre power requirements why not ask Safaricom, I am sure there is someone with the requisite pay grade to give us the answer to that question. Also note that Google does not virtualise therefore making their data centres more power hungry than new top of the line blade servers would need. Lets also not forget that we are talking about setting up data centres to serve just a few million users, I am currently retrofitting a data centre to make it more energy efficient and if the state of that particular data centre is anything to go by then most of the energy being consumed is being dissipated as heat. There are now entire data centres running off-grid utilising solar & wind with DC powered servers, a few months ago there was a demonstration of an outdoor off-grid data centre at the UNEP complex, with such initiatives why do we keep thinking that the only source of power must be KPLC? Last time I checked no one had received a bill from the almighty for the use of solar and wind, but I might be wrong if you are aware of anyone who has please send me a copy. I have a client who I advised many months ago to relocate his mail servers back here but they kept repeating the statements that I keep hearing on this post, by people who should know better, well today I have had to supply them with several Safaricom 3G modems as their ISP is as good as off the grid. Why do we keep insisting that we are setting up for overseas customers, Kenya is the hub for Central and Western Africa a market that is more than sufficient to cut our teeth on after which Goggle (who have already installed a cache server locally) and their elk will soon come knocking. Industrialisation, innovation and intelligence begins at home, even the great Osho Rajnesh once said "seek not from without but first from within" Regards Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> To: robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012, 9:56 Subject: Re: [kictanet] [KICTAnet] TEAMS | EASSY Fiber Cables Cut? SEACOM | LION? Dear Robert, Like it or not Nicholas' point is fundamentally true. Let's go back to Internet 101: You either have eyeballs or you have content. If you have content, the eyeballs will need to get to you so you need to sit your content somewhere accessible, affordable and secure. If you have eyeballs you need to provide them with a means to get to the content or else they will go to someone else who can. The problem with Kenya is not just that our energy is expensive. The biggest problem is that it simply is not enough. Ask Dr. Ndemo or Paul Kukubo what one of the leading questions any content owner asks when they come visiting to find out what all the buzz is about Kenya and whether they should consider putting up here? Yes, you got it - "can you meet our energy needs?" Without a fail in every case the answer is "no". This is an issue that needs to be considered very carefully if we intend to be a serious contender on the global scene. Tried to find online stats about the average energy usage of a Google data centet but apparently these are well kept secrets. But I remember hearing sometime back that a single Google data center uses more energy than the city of Nairobi(sic). Regards, Brian On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:33 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Nicholas,
I strongly disagree with you on the issue of developing local hosting capacity, the only way we can reduce our reliance on the marine cable and also to give the rest of the world reason to keep us lit is if we have content to offer.
Eugene makes a valid point in saying that we are spending hundreds of millions to make round trips on the internet it is essential that we carry out a true cost of connectivity analysis after which I will assure you that we shall still be better off setting up local data centres even with the high electricity costs.
The world also needs to look for disaster recovery locations in safe heavens, Egypt might have lower energy costs but as it seems now its status as a safe destination has become questionable what is the worlds alternative if not Kenya with or without its high energy costs?
Until recently I wore shoes made by Bata, recently I visited one of their shops to pick a new pair just to realise that it was made in China after which my loyalty weaned and now I will look at other stores that do not have local manufacturing capacity.
Safaricom might enjoy the lower costs of hosting MPesa in Germany but when they are forced to route their traffic over expensive satellite connections suddenly the savings do not seem has lucrative.
Regards
Build local, use local, grow local and be local
Robert Yawe KAY System Technologies Ltd Phoenix House, 6th Floor P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200 Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
----- Original Message ----- From: Nicholas J Dear <ndear@sundayafternoon.me.uk> To: robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, 28 February 2012, 17:07 Subject: Re: [kictanet] [KICTAnet] TEAMS | EASSY Fiber Cables Cut? SEACOM | LION?
This only makes sense if it makes sense to build data centres in Kenya - I don't believe it does.
If you look at all the recent major data centre build outs (Apple, Google) - they're either happening where there is enormous amounts of cheap energy, or where it's extremely cold. Kenya doesn't have either of these features and I can't see how it's going to generate large quantities of cheap energy any time soon.
N.
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet- bounces+ndear=sundayafternoon.me.uk@lists.kictanet.or.k e [mailto:kictanet- bounces+ndear=sundayafternoon.me.uk@lists.kictanet.or.k e] On Behalf Of Eugene Lidede (Synergy) Sent: 28 February 2012 16:55 To: Nicholas J Dear Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' Subject: Re: [kictanet] [KICTAnet] TEAMS | EASSY Fiber Cables Cut? SEACOM | LION? Importance: High
+1 Michuki on your good points
1. Today we import more than 80% of the Internet traffic consumed in Kenya causing an "Internet Transit Deficit" where significantly less Internet traffic is generated locally than accessed from overseas, similar to what was experienced between Europe and the US during the late 1990's.
However, what constitutes this traffic? Is it local content held abroad or is it genuinely content that cannot otherwise be obtained/generated locally. If it is local content held abroad, of which I am convinced it is, what is the best solution pre-2030: more fiber - both under sea and terrestrial, more redundant landing stations, better behaved shipping lines or more capacity and enabling environment for local hosting and local content providers?
Considering a typical case where my suppliers are in Kenya, my means of production is in Kenya, my clients are in Kenya with an occasionally client or two from abroad. If I had an extra shilling to spend on my business, what would make more sense, reengineer my offering to attract more international clients or strengthen my local offering?
How is it that we are comfortable with our top publicly listed telco, Safaricom delivering traffic to our top publicly listed media house in the UK? What ought to be the focus of our policy makers, regulators and licensors: facilitating scenarios as these or formulating ways to reverse such? Are there any benefits of such traffic transactions happening here in Kenya say at KIXP? How much would it cost say Safaricom to host say NMG's suite of websites, even if free of charge, verses how much does it cost them in terms of procured capacity, to deliver NMG bound traffic to the UK? Are there any short/long term benefits? Can both firms and others be given tax incentives to facilitate the above as opposed draining money on software certifications, a duplication of what more tax-payer money is already successfully doing at public universities?
--
Growing up in the seventies and eighties was interesting... Across all homes I knew, my friends, my cousins and even the one I grew up in, the best of everything was not for regular use by the "locals". The best cutlery, the best linen, we even had a term "Sunday Best" to describe that one Kaunda suit that could only be worn on Sundays. Chicken was only to be served when there were visitors (read "foreigners"). Back then, things were done more for the benefit of "foreigners" than for the benefit of "locals" - or how do you explain those grandiose wooden chests in the living room with all manner of expensive cutlery on display while "locals" made do with plastic cups and recycled blue-band tins.
Fast forward 30 years, and yes only time has "changed". We the lads and lasses growing up in the seventies and eighties are now in our 30s, 40s and 50s and yes, we are policy makers but as you know old habits die hard and so do bad ones. Our preoccupation is on how to better facilitate delivery of traffic abroad for what has been generated locally and is to be consumed within our borders. This we see as good practice: pay for export of our locally produced content and pay some more for its delivery back home unmodified for consumption. We see no problem giving a foreign company most of our government data via opendata because they are more competent than locals in deciphering and analyzing the data on and about the locals
Why are we so preoccupied with the international market as though there are no business opportunities for locals?
If indeed ICT and ecommerce is the next economic frontier, "naomba sirkal"... Nkt!
Regards
-----Original Message----- From: kictanet- bounces+eugene=synergy.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet- bounces+eugene=synergy.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Michuki Mwangi Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:10 PM To: Eugene Lidede Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] TEAMS | EASSY Fibre Cables Cut? SEACOM | LION?
Brian
TEAMS general manager Joel Tanui said it will take
On 2/28/12 9:06 AM, James Mbugua wrote: three weeks
although that may be to avoid over promising.
I'm told Eassy also has a cut near Djibouti and is currently being repaired.
Operators now have no option but to switch to the very expensive Seacom. By some accounts it is three times as expensive as TEAMS.
Safaricom which carries 80 per cent of Kenya's internet traffic usually has 50 per cent going through TEAMS and has switched this to Seacom.
IMHO we need to have a clearer understanding of the bigger picture to set the long term goals and objectives.
1. Today we import more than 80% of the Internet traffic consumed in Kenya causing an "Internet Transit Deficit" where significantly less Internet traffic is generated locally than accessed from overseas, similar to what was experienced between Europe and the US during the late 1990's.
2. We are dependent on a single East-Bound path from "Nairobi - Mombasa - (Mumbai/Fujaira) before going to Europe. This is despite the fact that we have terrestrial capacity from Cape Town to Cairo to provide an North-bound path that would complement the longer path.
3. The BBC article did not mention that, with the Submarine cable cuts the Internet traffic between the East African Countries Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda are most adversely affected. My current tests are showing over 1sec latency from Nairobi to some networks in Tanzania, Rwanda and Uganda. This is despite the reality that Uganda and Rwanda are largely dependent on the terrestrial cables passing through Kenya onto the cables.
4. South bound Internet traffic (to Southern Africa) has acquires satellite like latencies (higher than 500ms). As a result of the cable cuts. There's more than sufficient capacity terrestrially but we still have to go to Europe before going back South.
If we can work towards resolving the above issues with concrete plans and solutions. It's likely that such cable cuts in the future will not cause the level of attention and anxiety that we see are experiencing today.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
Michuki.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: +254715964281 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com "Give us clear vision that we may know where to stand and what to stand for, because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything."