@Kagwe, Indeed Safcom (and other mobile operators) have the data. Infact they have more data about you and me than we can imagine. With what the have, they can trace out your route from home, to office to your preferred pub and if applicable your *plan b* :-). Further they know whom you talked to and for how long during the day, night and over the last six months. They also know how much you paid for your groceries/supermarket, water bills and power bills, taxi..etc. But its all fine as long as they do not share this data with 3rd parties. Same way your doctor knows your biological profile inside out. It's fine as long as he or she does not Blog about it. Also you lecturer knows how many supplimentaries you had or did not have... Its all fine since that data is collected for a specific purpose relating to their tasks. The moment it is shared to 3rd parties for other purposes - surveillance, tax, marketing, etc, it violates your privacy and requires court orders to sanction. This is the old essence of data protection. 'Old' because I recognise that the post-Google generation (Yr 2000+) seem not to give a hoot about data privacy. After all, they Snapchat, Instagram and Tweet whatever it is they are doing, eating, sleeping, showering and what have you. They seem not to have a private life, and so why try to data-protect it? Very interesting times we live in. walu.nb: KRA can actually access your '3rd party' data through court orders, but not as a matter of routine or standard working procedure. From: James Kagwe via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy in the sense we are discussing diminishes.Rgds, James KagweOn May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This is also a wake up call for all of us......In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform. @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing. Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000 From: jwalu@yahoo.com To: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: lnjogu@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats @Njogu, @Kivuva, Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise. KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter. Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns. Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm. Finally, they will visit your bank, local pub, gym and whatnot and demand the same information. This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-) walu. From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: Kivuva@transworldafrica.com To: lnjogu@hotmail.com
1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation Point of Sale or better still ERP. 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are not required to register for VAT
On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na m-pesa' dukas.
There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie. costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected - case in point - road tax
Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money transactions without a court order!
Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what is going to go on here.
This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are comfortably going *public* about it.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious how this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be encountered on Privacy issues.
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On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a few thousands?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300 Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats From: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke CC: nmutungu@gmail.com To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com
Listers,
KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who are not paying their fair share of taxes.
People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data to suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make purchases.
Full article here: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/... -- Grace L.N. Mutung'u Nairobi Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: @Bomu
<http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
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_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kagwejg%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.