> But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here...
You must be joking! Have you heard of medical systems controlled by
software? Air-traffic control systems? Airplane navigation systems?
Banking systems? Traffic-light systems? The microwave you use at home?
That little gadget that you depend on some much - the mobile phone?
No life at stake?
Have an informative day.
Saidi
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian and Waudi:
> But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here even though the
> medical and chemical practitioners - read chemists - would want us to
> believe it is so. Why do we want to suffocate the baby before it is born?
>
> If Kenya wants to compete with India and other countries in ICT, I urge you
> guys to leave the industry alone. This is akin to what CCK is doing to the
> telecommunications industry. They want to license people who can connect
> cables. How much knowledge does one need to connect an RJ45 cable to a PC?
> Likewise do we need to license PHP programmers? Will this give us the sense
> of security that we have the best programmers working today just because
> they have a license saying so? Need I dwell on my experience hiring MS
> licensed engineers and what I think about those MSCEs etc?
>
> My teachers used to say "think twice before you leap". This is a case where
> this adage needs to be heeded. There is the concept of collateral damage and
> an intended consequences. Please contemplate those.
>
> Joe
>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Very correct Waudi. That's why we have Paediatrics Association, a
>> Pyschiatrics Association, a Dental Board, an Obstetrics Society. You
>> have gotten the point clearly.
>>
>> Asante sana!
>>
>> B
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 07 Jul 2008, at 7:54 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Brian - I do not know what you are saying. The medical field, as
>> > another
>> > example, is wide and diverse - we have heart surgeons, ENT
>> > specialists,
>> > paeditricians, general practitioners, gynacologists, etc, etc. Are
>> > these
>> > people the same? Would you go to a gynacologist to solve your eye
>> > ailment? OK, let us forget about regulating or registering doctors. To
>> > wide, large and deep.
>> >
>> > Waudo
>> > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:00:54 +0300, "Brian Longwe" <blongwe@gmail.com>
>> > said:
>> >> Hi Walu,
>> >>
>> >> I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a
>> >> single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would
>> >> probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines
>> >> within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System
>> >> Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can
>> >> be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
>> >>
>> >> I would venture to suggest that ICT is very similar to the auto
>> >> industry - which is made up of so many different types of
>> >> stakeholders
>> >> (from multi-national vendors like GM to Owino my jua-kali fundi and a
>> >> plethora of linkages across insurance, finance, property, transport
>> >> etc...)
>> >>
>> >> Not that I intend to put your suggestions down - but to request a
>> >> slightly broader view of the animal called ICT.
>> >>
>> >> To illustrate this point I will wax poetic and share with you the
>> >> following poem by John Godfrey Saxe ( 1816-1887)
>> >>
>> >> The Blind men and the Elephant
>> >>
>> >> It was six men of Indostan
>> >> To learning much inclined,
>> >> Who went to see the Elephant
>> >> (Though all of them were blind),
>> >> That each by observation
>> >> Might satisfy his mind.
>> >>
>> >> The First approach'd the Elephant,
>> >> And happening to fall
>> >> Against his broad and sturdy side,
>> >> At once began to bawl:
>> >> "God bless me! but the Elephant
>> >> Is very like a wall!"
>> >>
>> >> The Second, feeling of the tusk,
>> >> Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
>> >> So very round and smooth and sharp?
>> >> To me 'tis mighty clear
>> >> This wonder of an Elephant
>> >> Is very like a spear!"
>> >>
>> >> The Third approached the animal,
>> >> And happening to take
>> >> The squirming trunk within his hands,
>> >> Thus boldly up and spake:
>> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
>> >> Is very like a snake!"
>> >>
>> >> The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
>> >> And felt about the knee.
>> >> "What most this wondrous beast is like
>> >> Is mighty plain," quoth he,
>> >> "'Tis clear enough the Elephant
>> >> Is very like a tree!"
>> >>
>> >> The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
>> >> Said: "E'en the blindest man
>> >> Can tell what this resembles most;
>> >> Deny the fact who can,
>> >> This marvel of an Elephant
>> >> Is very like a fan!"
>> >>
>> >> The Sixth no sooner had begun
>> >> About the beast to grope,
>> >> Then, seizing on the swinging tail
>> >> That fell within his scope,
>> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
>> >> Is very like a rope!"
>> >>
>> >> And so these men of Indostan
>> >> Disputed loud and long,
>> >> Each in his own opinion
>> >> Exceeding stiff and strong,
>> >> Though each was partly in the right,
>> >> And all were in the wrong!
>> >>
>> >> MORAL.
>> >>
>> >> So oft in theologic wars,
>> >> The disputants, I ween,
>> >> Rail on in utter ignorance
>> >> Of what each other mean,
>> >> And prate about an Elephant
>> >> Not one of them has seen!
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On 07 Jul 2008, at 12:45 PM, John Walubengo <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Marcel,
>> >>>
>> >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
>> >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF
>> >>> only? I wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?)
>> >>> or Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just
>> >>> to mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I
>> >>> beg to be enlightened.
>> >>>
>> >>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT
>> >>> Profession in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that IT is
>> >>> the only discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the same
>> >>> authority as LSK (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers
>> >>> of Kenya), Medical Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate
>> >>> the IT Profession.
>> >>>
>> >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a
>> >>> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start
>> >>> thinking of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to
>> >>> regulate the industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this,
>> >>> but they have been awfully quite except when they award prizes at
>> >>> the end of the year (Waudo I know u will kill me offline but I just
>> >>> had to say it!).
>> >>>
>> >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly in the
>> >>> Manufacturing sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as
>> >>> effective - particularly because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
>> >>> IT industry has been 'cloudy' for lack of a better word...Can for
>> >>> example CSK or ISACA be part of KEPSA without being part of KIF? I
>> >>> again need to be enlightened.
>> >>>
>> >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking loudly and saying that
>> >>> as we think of regulating electronic transactions, we also need to
>> >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am
>> >>> wrong. Particularly because regulation can and often leads to
>> >>> suppression...
>> >>>
>> >>> walu.
>> >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Marcel Werner <marcelcwerner@gmail.com>
>> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in>> >>>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com
>> >>>> Kenya
>> >>>> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>> >>>> KEPSA <http://www.kepsa.org/>. KIF is a legally>> >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -
>> >>>> Public Panel 19
>> >>>> June 2008
>> >>>>
>> >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
>> >>>> percent point growth
>> >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
>> >>>> This is contingent
>> >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
>> >>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>> >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
>> >>>> having a legal
>> >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
>> >>>> an anachronism
>> >>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
>> >>>> at a
>> >>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
>> >>>> external and internal
>> >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
>> >>>> strongly supports
>> >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
>> >>>> Information and
>> >>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
>> >>>> market and promotes
>> >>>> innovation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
>> >>>> electronic transactions
>> >>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
>> >>>> in the legal
>> >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
>> >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
>> >>>> electronic signature
>> >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce risks
>> >>>> -Remove e-commerce barriers
>> >>>> KIF has studied drafts currently circulating in the public
>> >>>> domain, the
>> >>>> Information and Communications Bill, 2008, and the
>> >>>> Electronic Transactions
>> >>>> Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which are of the highest
>> >>>> technical
>> >>>> standards. Public panels and hearings with sectors of the
>> >>>> economy (including
>> >>>> tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been held on 6th and 27th
>> >>>> May, 4th June and
>> >>>> 19th June. The Kenyan private sector has expressed
>> >>>> overwhelming support for
>> >>>> urgent legislation of e-commerce.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Suggested improvements in Bills - The public panels and
>> >>>> hearings to date
>> >>>> have yielded the following important issues for improvement
>> >>>> in the current
>> >>>> Bills:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Provisions on who can prosecute are missing
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Liability of Internet Service Providers must be
>> >>>> demarcated
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Clarification on which commercial documents are
>> >>>> excluded from
>> >>>> proposed legislation
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Eliminate any ambiguity on admissibility of
>> >>>> electronic evidence
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Need for data protection and privacy provisions
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - The Bills are more lenient on e-commerce fraud
>> >>>> than on
>> >>>> traditional fraud
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Remove inconsistencies in determining crimes and
>> >>>> punishments
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Provisions for the inclusion of cyber-crime
>> >>>> within the scope of
>> >>>> the Extradition Act
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Creation of an Administrator for e-commerce laws
>> >>>> whose functions
>> >>>> will be policy implementation and advisory, as a
>> >>>> multi-sectoral body with
>> >>>> industry associations including KIF, lead regulator
>> >>>> Communications
>> >>>> Commission of Kenya and co-regulator Central Bank of Kenya
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Gains in tourism, agriculture, healthcare
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Industry sectors, notably the tourism industry, are
>> >>>> expressing their desire
>> >>>> to see e-commerce covered by law. In tourism, on-line
>> >>>> travel bookings have
>> >>>> exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in Europe. Decline in
>> >>>> off-line bookings is
>> >>>> in ample evidence. Those destinations that cannot legally
>> >>>> support abundant
>> >>>> on-line booking, such as Kenya, will loose market share.
>> >>>> E-commerce in
>> >>>> agriculture will improve small-holder's living
>> >>>> standards. Great impact is
>> >>>> expected notably in the coffee sector that provides
>> >>>> livelihood to at least 5
>> >>>> million Kenyans, as well as in the dairy industry.
>> >>>> Healthcare efficiency and
>> >>>> affordability will improve by on-line health data
>> >>>> management systems.
>> >>>> Business operators in rural towns and rural centres have
>> >>>> also expressed keen
>> >>>> interest, as they see scope to address issues of trade
>> >>>> efficiency and
>> >>>> security in rural Kenya.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What is e-commerce
>> >>>>
>> >>>> E-commerce is a method of trading that replaces paper-based
>> >>>> documentation by
>> >>>> a mutually binding electronic protocol between buyers and
>> >>>> sellers.
>> >>>> E-commerce is gaining ground globally and has become an
>> >>>> irreversible trend.
>> >>>> Many trading partners are already practicing e-commerce, by
>> >>>> mutual
>> >>>> agreement, also in Kenya. However, e-commerce will reach
>> >>>> its full potential
>> >>>> when parties that do not know each other are able to trade
>> >>>> with full mutual
>> >>>> protection under the law. This will benefit large numbers
>> >>>> of consumers and
>> >>>> businesses, including small-holder farmers, tourism
>> >>>> operators, small-scale
>> >>>> industry and services providers in almost any business
>> >>>> sector.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> About KIF
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Kenya Information and Communication Technology
>> >>>> Federation (KIF)
>> >>>> represents the ICT industry with Government and with
>> >>>> private sector bodies
>> >>>> e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers and Kenya Private
>> >>>> Sector Alliance
>> >>>> Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke_______________________________________________>> >>>> registered membership based
>> >>>> Association, made up of trade associations and professional
>> >>>> bodies within
>> >>>> the national ICT industry, as well as commercial
>> >>>> corporations. KIF has been
>> >>>> accepted as the private sector voice of ICT by Government.
>> >>>> KIF contributes
>> >>>> ideas to key sectors like healthcare, education,
>> >>>> agriculture, construction
>> >>>> industry, and last but not least supports e-government
>> >>>> development. KIF is a
>> >>>> membership-driven organisation. Members bring issues on
>> >>>> public policy and
>> >>>> industry development forward for KIF to take action. Issues
>> >>>> include:
>> >>>> innovation promotion, education improvement, duties, taxes
>> >>>> and levies, rural
>> >>>> ICT investment. KIF has a strong and active network, with
>> >>>> excellent
>> >>>> relationships with all government agencies. KIF membership
>> >>>> is open for
>> >>>> market segment associations and individual companies.
>> >>>> Membership charges are
>> >>>> annual and based on company size. Contact:
>> >>>> secretariat@kif.or.ke, 020
>> >>>> 4440102
>> >>>> MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT Federation
>> >>>>
>> >>>> please send any business mail to:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> kictanet mailing list>> >>> This message was sent to: blongwe@gmail.com
>> >>>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This message was sent to: jwalu@yahoo.com
>> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%
>> >>>> 40yahoo.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work
>> > (Confucius).
>> >> --
>>
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>
>
> Joseph Manthi
> CEO
> MEO Ltd
> http://www.meoltd.com
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