On 17 October 2012 14:13, Barrack Otieno <
otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
> @ Alex on a lighter note watajua crown ni nini :-), if i was the new
> Inspector General of Police, i would find a way of collaborating with
> stakeholders to ensure that cyber security of the citizenry is guaranteed
> whilst respecting privacy something akin to community Policing, remember the
> days of subchiefs, my late grandmothers Sanyo Radio was once stolen and the
> villager was smoked out since the community members knew each other quiet
> well, in any case when you look at most mailing systems most system admins
> can see the emails that come through but they have to exercise a level of
> respect not to read through the mails, i think what we need to look at is to
> what extent should we sniff and is the citizenry comfortable i think we
> might need a national survey on this, CCK can do this.
>
> Best Regards
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Alex Comninos <
alex.comninos@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> @Barrack
>> I would propose that as a law enforcer in a functioning democracy with
>> respect for human rights, even when enforcing the law against hate
>> speech, I would not be above the law. Especially the supreme law of
>> the land (the constitution). I would have a very tough task of
>> balancing the provisions in the constitution against hate speech with
>> the right to privacy enshrined in article 31 of the constitution which
>> includes the right for people not to have their person, home or
>> property searched; their possessions seized; information relating to
>> their family or private affairs unnecessarily required or revealed; or
>> the privacy of their communications infringed.
>>
>> As a law enforcer, beholden to the constitution, I may even have to
>> investigate cybercafes or other law enforcement agencies for breaching
>> the right to privacy installing keyloggers.
>>
>> Barrack if you were a law enforcer, what would you do?
>>
>> On 17 October 2012 13:48, Barrack Otieno <
otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Assuming you were a law enforcer Alex what would you propose?
>> >
>> > Best Regards
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Alex Comninos <
alex.comninos@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> @Kivuva
>> >>
>> >> I stongly agree with your concerns. I would not want all cybercafe
>> >> owners monitoring my communications, and I would be very afraid of the
>> >> circumstances.
>> >>
>> >> I also worry about the costs this would impose on cybercafes, which
>> >> would be transferred to the consumers as barriers to access when
>> >> cybercafes either increase their prices, or simply stop operating
>> >> because they cannot deal with the costs.
>> >>
>> >> Furthermore alot of cybercafes operate in the informal economy, they
>> >> need to be integrated into the formal economy before this happens.
>> >> Demanding they install surveillance equipment would disincentivise
>> >> them to embark on such a process.
>> >>
>> >> Crime and hate speech are a big problem, but it cannot be solved
>> >> without a vast array of negative consequences by requiring
>> >> intermediaries to act as policeman.
>> >>
>> >> In the history of the postal service in most countries other than
>> >> totalitarian states, the post office (pre-information society
>> >> intermediaries) where never required to open every letter sent to
>> >> check it did not contain hate speech or planning of crimes. Imagine
>> >> the outrage. Would anyone on this list like to see the post-office
>> >> reading all their letters?
>> >>
>> >> On 17 October 2012 13:16, Kivuva <
Kivuva@transworldafrica.com> wrote:
>> >> > It seems we are entering the age of hyper-surveillance and
>> >> > monitoring.
>> >> > Personal freedom and space should be protected as we try to find a
>> >> > balance between prosecuting hate speech offenders and monitor peoples
>> >> > day to day lives. When NCIS says it will work with cyber cafes to
>> >> > curb
>> >> > vices, all I see is key-loggers installed in those workstations to
>> >> > track what patrons are doing. I acknowledge that the safety of the
>> >> > nation is important, but I fear what other uses such private
>> >> > information may have, especially if it falls in the wrong hands!
>> >> >
>> >> > On 17/10/2012, Grace Githaiga <
ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks Ali, Barrack and Jaco. The message is clear: the education
>> >> >> system as
>> >> >> well as intermediaries have a role in educating users of their
>> >> >> responsibility
>> >> >> online.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Listers, please feel free to
>> >> >> continue the debate under the thread of Hate
>> >> >> text messages/KICA Section 29.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Today, we focus our attention to prosecution
>> >> >> of online hate speech. The NCIC has threatened to prosecute online
>> >> >> hate
>> >> >> speech as political campaigns intensify ahead of the 2013 March
>> >> >> general
>> >> >> elections. The Chair of NCIS was quoted in
>> >> >> yesterday’s Daily Nation as saying that his Commission is working
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> cyber
>> >> >> cafes to monitor hate speech.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There seems to be uncertainty on what offences may happen on
>> >> >> communication networks and whether intermediaries would be liable or
>> >> >> not.
>> >> >> Such
>> >> >> intermediaries as Safaricom have come up with rules that will be
>> >> >> applied
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> political advertising on its network; while Nation Media has NMG
>> >> >> blog
>> >> >> rules
>> >> >> (see
>> >> >>
http://www.nation.co.ke/meta/-/1194/1132038/-/88lbspz/-/index.html).
>> >> >> NMG is
>> >> >> cautious in particular after being sued
>> >> >> for comments made by a reader on its blog on a story about Uhuru
>> >> >> Kenyatta.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Is it advisable for these intermediaries to take caution or
>> >> >> encourage
>> >> >> self regulation or what should they do?
>> >> >> How successful do you think the NCIC will be in prosecuting online
>> >> >> hate
>> >> >> speech?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Over to you Listers.RgdsGG
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29
>> >> >> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:20:46 +0200
>> >> >> From:
j.dutoit@unesco.org
>> >> >> To:
ggithaiga@hotmail.com
>> >> >> CC:
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke;
isoc@orion.my.co.ke
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear Grace, The education system definitely has a role to play in
>> >> >> media
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> information literacy, but I would argue that it is also in the
>> >> >> interest
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the intermediaries to get involved in such education initiatives.
>> >> >> Best
>> >> >> regardsJaco -------------------------------------------------Jaco DU
>> >> >> TOITAdviser for Communication & InformationUNESCO Regional Office
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> Eastern AfricaUnited Nations Avenue, UNON, Gigiri (Room C-104) P.O.
>> >> >> Box
>> >> >> 30592-00100, Nairobi, Kenya Tel: +254 (0)20 762 2346/2566 Fax +254
>> >> >> (0)20 762
>> >> >> 2750 Mobile: +254 (0)728 610 912
Email:j.dutoit@unesco.org,
>> >> >> Website:
http://www.unesco-nairobi.org From: kictanet
>> >> >> [mailto:
kictanet-bounces+j.dutoit=
unesco.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
>> >> >> On
>> >> >> Behalf
>> >> >> Of Grace Githaiga
>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 16 October, 2012 3:57 PM
>> >> >> To: Du Toit, Jaco
>> >> >> Cc:
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke;
isoc@orion.my.co.ke
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29 Thanks
>> >> >> Barrack,
>> >> >> Jaco and Kariuki for your views. Jaco, we note your point on the
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> users to take responsibility on what they post and the need for
>> >> >> information
>> >> >> and media literacy for users. Barrack is of the same opinion that
>> >> >> there
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> need for an education of users on their responsibility online. If I
>> >> >> may
>> >> >> ask
>> >> >> both of you, who would be responsible for conducting this sort of
>> >> >> education?
>> >> >> Kariuki, you make a very good point about what may have informed the
>> >> >> introduction section 29 of KICA namely the facsimile. Considering
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> technology has evolved and the internet is no longer in infancy,
>> >> >> what
>> >> >> would
>> >> >> you recommend for this section? Listers, lets here more input from
>> >> >> you.
>> >> >> RgdsGraceDate: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:47:13 +0300
>> >> >> From:
otieno.barrack@gmail.com
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29
>> >> >> CC:
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke;
isoc@orion.my.co.ke
>> >> >> To:
ggithaiga@hotmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> GG,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Intermediaries are liable to a certain extent, when a computer
>> >> >> broadcasts
>> >> >> spam, its IP address is blacklisted and users might not be able to
>> >> >> use
>> >> >> it to
>> >> >> send mail until corrective measures are taken. I beleive this is
>> >> >> meant
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> ensure that the Intermediary is responsible for the content
>> >> >> emanating
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> the network? if this is the case, why shouldn't the government which
>> >> >> has a
>> >> >> responsibility over the safety and security of every citizen not
>> >> >> take
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> intermediary to court to produce the the real culprit? Imagine what
>> >> >> would
>> >> >> have happened in the the recent case when a child was kidnapped from
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> City
>> >> >> Church if the Intermediary had not been of assistance to the state
>> >> >> agencies,
>> >> >> now that the populace understands the value of the Internet we
>> >> >> should
>> >> >> start
>> >> >> educating them about their rights responsibility on the net same
>> >> >> case
>> >> >> applies to the Intermediaries, if this issues are not enshrined in
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> law
>> >> >> it will be total chaos (looking at it from a government perspective)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best RegardsOn Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:58 AM, John Kariuki
>> >> >> <
ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:Grace,Listers,Section 29 of
>> >> >> KICA
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> first introduced in Kenya law in 1998 at the infancy of the Internet
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> Kenya and was based mainly on experience of Facsimile.It was, in my
>> >> >> view, at
>> >> >> that time not intended for intermediaries.However,if today a smart
>> >> >> lawyer
>> >> >> can adduce pursuasive evidence in court that indeed the intermediary
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> actually the 'sender' not mere 'carrier', I see no reason why he
>> >> >> may
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> secure a conviction based on KICA section 29. John Kariuki. From:
>> >> >> Grace
>> >> >> Githaiga <
ggithaiga@hotmail.com>
>> >> >> To:
ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk
>> >> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2012, 1:02
>> >> >> Subject: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29 Good morning
>> >> >> Listers
>> >> >> I would like to thank Jane, Barrack and Topista for views expressed
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> yesterday's topic Shooting the messenger. They did express the need
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> place
>> >> >> some level of responsibility on both the source of the content and
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> host
>> >> >> platform. Further they underscored the need to have a good
>> >> >> information
>> >> >> system that operates under a sound policy framework if it is to be
>> >> >> useful to
>> >> >> society. Today we look at Section 29 of the KICA (improper use of
>> >> >> system)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
http://www.cck.go.ke/regulations/downloads/KenyaInformation-Communications-Act-Final.pdf
>> >> >> that is increasingly being used as a basis for criminal charges for
>> >> >> users of
>> >> >> technology based platforms. See example:
>> >> >>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q7VmsYNsqE 29. A person who by
>> >> >> means
>> >> >> of a
>> >> >> licensed telecommunication system— (a) sends a message or other
>> >> >> matter
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing
>> >> >> character;
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> (b) sends a message that he knows t
>> >> >> o be false for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or
>> >> >> needless
>> >> >> anxiety to another person commits an offence and shall be liable on
>> >> >> conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty thousand shillings, or to
>> >> >> imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both.
>> >> >> Could
>> >> >> misuse of an information system also be used to charge
>> >> >> intermediaries?
>> >> >> Would
>> >> >> this call for the training of the Kenya Police, DPP and Judiciary so
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> they understand the issues as they litigate and make rulings?
>> >> >> Listers,
>> >> >> lets
>> >> >> hear your views. Further, please feel free to go back to yesterday's
>> >> >> thread
>> >> >> on shooting the messenger if you would like to contribute. Have a
>> >> >> wonderful
>> >> >> day RgdsGG _______________________________________________
>> >> >> kictanet mailing list
>> >> >>
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40yahoo.co.uk
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> >> >> platform
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
>> >> >> ICT
>> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> >> development.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> >> >> behaviors
>> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> >> >> bandwidth,
>> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> >> >> privacy,
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> kictanet mailing list
>> >> >>
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> >> >> platform
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
>> >> >> ICT
>> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> >> development.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> >> >> behaviors
>> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> >> >> bandwidth,
>> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> >> >> privacy,
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Barrack O. Otieno
+254721325277+254-20-2498789
>> >> >> Skype: barrack.otienohttp://
www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing
>> >> >> list
>> >> >>
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> change
>> >> >> your options at
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com
>> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> >> >> platform
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
>> >> >> ICT
>> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> >> development.
>> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> >> >> behaviors
>> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> >> >> bandwidth,
>> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> >> >> privacy,
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > ______________________
>> >> > Mwendwa Kivuva
>> >> > For
>> >> > Business Development
>> >> > Transworld Computer Channels
>> >> > Cel:
0722402248
>> >> >
twitter.com/lordmwesh
>> >> >
transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing
>> >> >
kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > kictanet mailing list
>> >> >
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> >
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >> >
>> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >> >
>> >> >
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> >> > platform
>> >> > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
>> >> > ICT
>> >> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> > development.
>> >> >
>> >> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> >> > behaviors
>> >> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> >> > bandwidth,
>> >> > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> >> > privacy, do
>> >> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> kictanet mailing list
>> >>
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >>
>> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> >>
>> >>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> development.
>> >>
>> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> >> bandwidth,
>> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
>> >> do
>> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Barrack O. Otieno
>> >
+254721325277
>> >
+254-20-2498789
>> > Skype: barrack.otieno
>> >
http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>>
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Barrack O. Otieno
>
+254721325277
>
+254-20-2498789
> Skype: barrack.otieno
>
http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
>