mmhh. sounds quite yummy... a must watch I presume. Hope H.E. will find time and watch as well. walu. --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Wainaina Mungai <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya communications (amendment) Bill: Is media overacting? To: [email protected] Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 12:41 PM Might we be making a step forward....
I gather all TV stations shall televise the Live Debate on the Communications Bill tonight from 9:30pm
The idea is to have Paul Muite, David Makali face off with PS Ndemo, Hon. Poghisio.
Maybe we'll reach a middle ground tonight...instead of a trying to identify a "winner". There should be a point when we give an take...and maybe, tonight is the night ;-)
WM
Hi Gilda,
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Gilda Odera <[email protected]> wrote:
My greatest concern is that in all this back and forth accusations, the baby will well be thrown with the water.
...
Given that the ICT industry is in dire need of the electronic transaction
and data protection legal frameworks, amongst many other things in the proposed bill, why can't the contentious media issues be removed for further discussion so that other things can continue? The ICT industry has waited too long for this Bill. It was lumped with
there is too much at stake. Is it too much to ask
the contentious media issues from the Bill so the industry does not lose more time on this?How will those thousands of jobs be created if there is no agreement on the Bill. And how will media operate if the Bill is passed with such contentious issues?
I feel you.
Can government meet industry players halfway by removing the contentious issues and letting the Bill be assented to without
industries do not suffer and delays please. It has to be a give and take.
From other discussants contributions, it appears
of) government did this it'd be flouting due legislative process. i.e. breaking the law. I stand to be corrected.
Happy Holidays
----- Original Message ----- *From:* Mike Theuri <[email protected]> *To:* Gilda Odera <[email protected]> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:47 PM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenyacommunications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
Brian,
I hope that the media and other interested parties have taken a cue from the recent happenings and will now take time to study and understand the bill. Hopefully the media's petition via the PM was concrete and included alternative workable proposals. If it did not, the President and anyone else involved in taking appropriate action will not have much to work with.
I agree that K24 should be commended for demonstrating professionalism and leadership. A debate cannot be productive if opposite sides do not engage freely and openly, neither can it be helpful if either party is not fully informed so as to understand where the other side is coming from. For this reason the media would do well to understand the bill not for the famous clause but for its provisions and work from that standpoint.
It can also be hoped that all involved will take away valuable lessons on the need to be proactive in the legislative
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM, Brian Longwe
<[email protected]> wrote:
Mike,
I could not agree with you more. What we are
witnessing is rabid calls
for deletion of a legal clause that has been in existence since 1998, and isn't even part of the proposed amendments - without a proposed alternative.
It is abundantly clear that neither the media
civil society pundits or politicos that are baying in the streets have really taken time to read through any of this legislation, nor consider suitable alternatives.
I personally think that this episode will serve as a lesson for many - knee-jerk, reactionary statements that are
hyperbole can only lead to confusion and eventually embarassment.
I give a thumbs up to the likes of K24 who have taken a very neutral stand and chosen to air both sides of the story and work more towards enlightenment than further fuel the outright
that our airwaves have been awash with over the
Brian
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Mike
Theuri
<[email protected]>wrote:
Crystal,
Actually, the right to assemble, discuss in public and protest was never taken away by the Patriot act. Numerous
place over the Iraq war, Immigration etc since then and have been widely covered. Indeed if one was pay a visit to the environs of the White house, one will find no shortage of
of issues from Guantanamo by dressing in orange jump suits and locking themselves in cages, Darfur, Tibetans acting out torture methods, to calling the current US administration fascist or for its removal as long as they do not interfere with others freedoms by being disruptive. The Patriot Act still stands to date, however a few of its provisions have sunset and are no longer in law
process that pays attention to constituents views.
The separation of powers principle is best exemplified in the US. The Judiciary's independence is one that should be emulated in Kenya. The fact that unconstitutional laws can be challenged and struck down by the courts is itself a protection against the infringement of citizen and non-citizens rights. Take for instance cases such as
(Hamdan v. Rumsfeld) or the 5 Algerian Guantanamo detainees where the US Government did not win in both cases. The fact that members of congress have signaled their intent to restore habeus corpus rights to detainees is in itself an indication of standing up for
opinion may not agree with some principles of basic human rights. There is a lot of work and reform to be done locally, in ensuring that the different arms of Government can be as independent and those who are aggrieved by the legislature at least have an avenue of resort in which they can place their confidence to fairly strike down what could be considered unconstitutional.
At the same time excessive freedom and its abuse is dangerous, were Kenya the US, elements of the media who engaged in deliberate acts at the beginning of the year would be in court today being held civilly liable for their role in inciting violence that led to the deaths of civilians. Media elements that act recklessly and carry inappropriate content would be paying hefty fines that could easily bankrupt
their ways. Yet we find that even with such regulations, the US media has a level of freedom that is not quite paralleled around the world. I believe it is clear that the contentious section 88 has always been present, it is not new, and thus the Government cannot
suppress the people's voices. As with every system there need to be checks and balances, the media has called for deletion, an approach that faces legal hurdles, but the media has not been seen to come up with clear cut alternatives such as amendments that could make it very difficult if not impossible for section 88 to be abused,
could be lobbying for placement in the memorandum. The media fraternity might not be law makers but they could certainly spend amounts such as the Ksh. 2m spent on advertising a prayer meeting to explain in layman terms what *alternatives* as protections they want to be included in the bill. One way or another there will be laws that deal with the media, a reality the media should accept and work towards defining rather than wishing the inevitable goes away.
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Crystal Watley < [email protected]> wrote:
The Patriot Act was established in
terrorist activities and the Iraqi war to silence any public discussion or protest. The US government was able to make a list of organizations and people they considered to be "terrorists" and to use a variety of means powers to contain those they believed to be "dangerous to US interests". This Act was used to arrest many
activists, and to detain Muslims without trial for extended period of time at places like Guantanamo Bay. Every democratic government must respect human rights. The Patriot Act was a time bound piece of legislature and it has thus lapsed. Democratic governments should not attempt to use legislation to suppress the voice of
country where a minority of the
attempted and have often succeeded to dominate and control the population. We should learn from the lessons of history, rather than repeat the same mistakes.
Crystal
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:35 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> David, > I thought this UK law would make our section 88 look like an evening > game > of soccer. From the Independent. > > 23 November 2003 > > Sweeping measures to deal with terrorist attacks and other emergencies > are > to be announced this week, giving
> civil > liberties in times of crisis, and evacuate threatened areas, restrict > people's movements and confiscate property. > > The Civil Contingencies Bill, which covers every kind of disaster from > terrorism to the weather, will be
> laws > since the early part of the last century, replacing legislation which > saw > the UK through a world war and the IRA bombing campaign. > > Some of the proposals in the draft version of the Bill, drawn up in > the > summer, have alarmed civil rights activists, notably a clause that > gives > the Government the power to suspend parts or all of the Human Rights > Act > without a vote by MPs. > > Once an emergency has been
> order the destruction of property, order people to evacuate an area or > ban > them from travelling, and "prohibit assemblies of specified kinds" and > "other specified activities". > > If these rules had been in force during the Iraq war, critics say, > they > could have been used to to ban street demonstrations, making anyone > who > travelled to protest guilty of a criminal offence. After a major > terrorist > attack, forums made up of local councils, the emergency services and > utility companies would be put in charge of trying to get shattered > communities back together. > > > Ndemo. > > > > > > Ok. Thanks. > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > > > Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:04 > > To: <[email protected]> > > Cc: <[email protected]>; KICTAnet ICT Policy > > Discussions<[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya > > communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting? > > > > > > David, > > There was a hitch. It will be in all papers tomorrow and will > > ensure > you > > get the soft copy. > > > > > > Ndemo. > > > > > > > >> > >> I have treid to find the amended bill online with no success; was > >> it > >> uploaded as promised? someone please? > >> david > >> > >> > >> _______________ > >> > >> "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, > >> I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." > >> â€" Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist > >> _______________ > >> > >> PO Box 3234 > >> 00200 Nairobi, Kenya > >> cell: +254 722 517 540 > >> > >> > >> --- On Mon, 12/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya > >>> communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting? > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < > [email protected]> > >>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 1:04 AM > >>> Mike, > >>> Thank you for your objective views. You know very well > >>> that there are > >>> thousands of youth out there who have patiently waited for > >>> this bill to > >>> allow them trade on-line. Now Media calls theirs. > >>> > >>> The outcomes of the Kriegler and Waki would hopefully deal > >>> with political > >>> impunity. Who will deal with media impunity? In my view > >>> we must push > >>> this Bill to ensure
> >>> to corrupt our > >>> children's minds. > >>> > >>> Ndemo. > >>> > >>> > >>> > Dr. Ndemo, > >>> > > >>> > I hope that the media note that they are on the wrong > >>> path and move to > >>> > change their approach. In hindsight they might realize > >>> that the issues at > >>> > hand could have been tackled differently.The > >>> media's most recent actions > >>> > only make it more difficult to resolve the very same > >>> issues they are > >>> > protesting. > >>> > > >>> > The Nation's editorial perhaps represents the > >>> divergence in views between > >>> > the media owners, their supporters and responsible > >>> journalists who may > >>> > have > >>> > seen that things are steering in a dangerous > >>> direction. As the matter > >>> > drags > >>> > on, various elements will try to take advantage and > >>> jump onto the > >>> > bandwagon > >>> > to further certain agendas. It is this catalyst that > >>> is worrisome, as > >>> > there > >>> > is the
> >>> somehow been tied to > >>> > economic issues,
> >>> misused by those who have > >>> > little to do with the media. > >>> > > >>> > The country has many volatile problems that should not > >>> be exploited, some > >>> > of > >>> > those jumping onto the media bandwagon may be seeking > >>> to detract from > >>> > matters facing
> >>> mind that can only > >>> > progress if they are disguised as media and economic > >>> issues. The media > >>> > hopefully is looking at these issues in a responsible > >>> manner, will > >>> > exercise > >>> > diplomacy and engage the Government in a civil way as > >>> the best way to > >>> > resolve the impasse. There are many Kenyans suffering > >>> today from matters > >>> > not > >>> > within their control, it is a dangerous thing for the > >>> media to act in a > >>> > way > >>> > that could easily stir these masses to non-civil > >>> action as measures are > >>> > being taken to alleviate these problems. The media has > >>> a corporate > >>> > responsibility in ensuring that it exhausts all civil > >>> means of ensuring > >>> > the > >>> > matters are resolved. > >>> > > >>> > It is encouraging to know that the Government is open > >>> for discussion, but > >>> > there is only so much that the Government can do on > >>> legislative matters. > >>> > The > >>> > Government can draft, prepare and adjust laws but it > >>> cannot pass the same > >>> > in > >>> > parliament. The media must do more on its own in > >>> approaching not just key > >>> > leaders but
On 12/17/08, Gakuru Alex <[email protected]> wrote: the media acts and now the Government to remove these issues so both that if the (Executive arm process. practitioners, neither the based on speculation and lies and misrepresentation past few days. protests and marches have taken protesters demonstrating any number thanks to a refined legislative that of Bin Laden's driver principle even when popular them if they chose not change possibly be trying to now use it to these are the checks the media the United States in light of peaceful protesters, environmental the people. Kenya is not the only population with vested interests have the Government power to over-ride the biggest shake-up of emergency proclaimed by the Queen, the Government can that electronic media does not continue possibility that just as the media issue has the media issue could easily be them, others have personal agendas in ultimately the legislators who actually
> >>> vote to pass the same > >>> > laws. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 5:11 PM, > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Thanks Theuri, > >>> >> Since Government is open for discussion, diplomacy > >>> would yield better > >>> >> results. I have seen their action plan which by > >>> the way violates cck > >>> >> licence agreement it is not the best rout to take. > >>> Having spent all > >>> >> weekend > >>> >> using public resources (frequencies) to propagate > >>> violence, they should > >>> >> at > >>> >> least wait to hear from cck. > >>> >> > >>> >> If you read today's Nation editorial on how to > >>> end impunity including > >>> >> media > >>> >> impunity you wonder if they are the same people > >>> inciting the public to > >>> >> violence. > >>> >> > >>> >> Ndemo > >>> >> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) > >>> >> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>> >> From: "Mike Theuri" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> >> > >>> >> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:19:01 > >>> >> To: <[email protected]> > >>> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy > >>> Discussions<[email protected]> > >>> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya > >>> communications > >>> >> (amendment)Bill: Is media overacting? > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >>
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Voices of Africa [email protected] http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
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