Hi This is what GSMA had to say about the matter; http://www.gsma.com/publicpolicy/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/GSMA-Security-Gr... On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Harry Delano via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Well summed up Walu...
Let's look at the positivity aspect of it, and possibly with the benefit of hindsight, adopt a gradual uptake to "test the waters"...
By the way who is giving the honorable legislators professional advice on this important Cyber security matter, as they decide the fate of the Thin-sim technology...?
Harry
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thanks Gicheru,
I was really getting woried...most of the security concerns raised by listers are the very same ones traditional banks raised against MPESA a few years ago. Luckily, the regulators then ignored them otherwise the global story of MPESA may never have been told let alone celebrated.
Folks, I am NOT saying there is NO issue with thin-SIM. There are, but I worry when we sound defeatist and perhaps scared to open a new story of mobile money. If Kenyans can't do, no one else in the world will.
Lets bring out the concerns, but with a view to resolving them rather than running away from them.
walu. shared secret: as an info-security professional, I was so paranoid about MPESA that I ended being what strategy books call - Laggards or more politely Late adopters. For years I was quite paralysed with my security analysis (analytic paralysis syndrome) and could dare not sign up. Eventually ofcourse I grudgingly signed up - but still get shivers when am sending that mobile money :-)
-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9/17/14, Martin Gicheru via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity Bank vs Safaricom :-Round 2 To: jwalu@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 2:00 PM
@Dennis: I don't see Equity Bank worried that they may be exposing consumers in the way you just presented, and this has not come out yet in an argument before. You realize that the same bank account has been accessible on the mobile phone via USSD shortcodes that most of these banks have that they call "mobile banking". On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Collins Areba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Come to think of this, Would this lead to a rise in Handset Locking to network under plans much like AT&T does elsewhere? Leading to a change in business model from exclusively traditional Prepay to Device Lock in. Or does the regulator intend to block the larger companies from doing this too?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Dennis Kioko via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: I've been using the Equitel SIM card for a few days. One of the things that people have been overlooking in the whole argument is that the Equitel SIM card virtually has your whole bank account sitting on it. So while we are frothing on the mouth over M-Pesa security, I would think that many people will have more money in their bank account than on the SIM card. No one seems to be talking about security on the users side - I mean, if the Thin-SIM's security is compromised, then your whole bank account is compromised.
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014, Martin Gicheru via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Also thinking about the part where the SIM card will need to be inactive while the other is active, I think Safaricom do have a legal point where they will have a technical outage as the user switches to second SIM. You know, unlike Dual-SIM which allows for dual standby, these two SIMs will not operate at the same time. That and the part where we still are not sure about data security as mentioned by Collins and Delano. Brings me to this: Who is supposed to test and verify that the thin SIM wont compromise on the security of the primary SIM and why hasn't this been done by now. If I was Safaricom I would worry about giving access to my customer usage habits, just like any subscribed service is able to access from their users to make their services better or like in the case of Google and the likes, serve better ads. Martin Gicheru On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Collins Areba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: Safaricom's Case seems grounded on the fact that The Thin Sim sits squarely in between your safaricom SIM card (that offers security layer to your accounts within the safaricom network) and the handset whose input devices you use to interact with their SIM. In theory therefore all keystrokes can therefore be "logged", For the Record I will not be putting anything in that phone that I use heavily for bank transactions because while not yet proven beyond reasonable doubt, Safaricom does have a point.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote: @ Harry D,
I did cover all your questions in the blog. I also thought Parliament (with all due respect to our very able Hon. MP, Eng J. Rege who sits on the respective committee) has jumped the gun and got involved too soon. They should let the regulator do their thing as per law.
Meanwhile, you and I know, there is nothing like 100% security (otherwise German Premier's phone would not have been bugged by the CIA :-) So rather than discuss how insecure the technology is, we should be discussing how to implement the technology with increased levels of assurance/security.
walu.
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/17/14, Harry Delano via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fw: Equity Bank vs Safaricom :-Round 2
To: jwalu@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 10:56 AM
What about the headlines indicating
Parliament has to have a final say on this, based on
alleged security ramifications posed by this new Thin-Sim
Technology.. It is claimed that it's prone to hacks,
attacks, DoS etc.. and "will erode significantly the
gains achieved so far in mobile money market.." Anyone
with any idea where the technology currently implemented
-
Harry
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at
10:00 PM, Mark Kipyegon via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
Mpesa succeeds
primarily because of a strong distribution network. IMO
Equity have the existing clientele and the resources to
offer a product that can genuinely challenge
Safaricom.
On 16 Sep 2014, at 20:11, "Ahmed Mohamed
Maawy via kictanet" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
With Ali on this one. Mobile
Money is a gone case in Kenya. If Equity is really providing
a value add service then its not through its mobile
platform. Airtel, Yu and Orange all have far cheaper mobile
money services. If there was a service that would be the
first to topple M-Pesa it would have been Airtel Money.
Heck, Airtel even offers cheaper call rates from Airtel to
Safaricom than from Safaricom to Safaricom and they still
are not getting customers. Did I mention their network
coverage is even stronger?
And what would Equity need to do? Set up masts
in as far as Kitui, or as far as Maralal, or as far as
Isiolo? Theres a lot of work to be done before Equity
becomes a service provider to even match the least
established provider there is. They would be better off
working with Yu mobile than working even against Safaricom.
No offence.
So the business
here is in the value add services, which is where mobile
commerce comes in. What is done is done, the value add is
what is the worth for now. Not the competition. Because
competition already exists, no sense saturating it
further.
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at
7:57 PM, McTim via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2014/09/disrupting-mobile-banking-keny...
Does anyone know which
network Equity is 'virtual" on?
rgds,
McTim
On Tue, Sep 16,
2014 at 10:03 AM, Sophia Bekele via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
resting
discussion on where mobile baking is going....
With
best wishes,
Sophia
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On Tuesday, September
16, 2014 7:52 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
@Walu
Lets wait and see...Many have
written off Safaricom before. What I'm loving
about this discussion though is the elephant in the room. I
believe Kenyans are waiting for the next big thing. This
mobile money thing has been hyped and flogged until its
dead. The next big thing is mobile commerce.
And I don't mean the 'Lipa
na Mpesa' variety.
I mean real m-commerce enablement -
SME supply chain financing, invoice discounting etc.
That's where the future is and that's why the KCB
tie up is interesting. My only concern with that is that
most banks (fortunately for Safaricom) are old school
thinkers unwilling to venture into the
unknown.
This ship
hasn't sailed yet. It remains to be seen who will be at
the helm.
Ali
Hussein
+254 770 906375 / 0713
601113
Twitter:
@AliHKassimSkype:
abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com
"I fear the day
technology will surpass human interaction. The world will
have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert
Einstein
Sent
from my iPad
On Sep 16,
2014, at 5:31 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>
wrote:
@Ali,
Equity is
not just after Safaricom lunch, they are after their dinner
as well :-).
This thin-SIM technology will do what
Number Portability failed to do. People are likely to
"Vooka" onto Equity (cheaper) voice services
without having to buy two phones or dual-SIM phones.
Equity mobile money value proposition, will have the
side-effect of knock the breath out of Safaricom's voice
revenues...fortunately, Safcom can see this, and they are
not taking it kindly :-)
We are
indeed living in very interesting times in .Ke
walu.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/16/14, Ali Hussein via kictanet
<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Equity Bank vs
Safaricom :-Round 2
To: jwalu@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 3:18
PM
Collins
Well put.
Walu,
I'm keen to understand how
a
technology which is a
commodity ( read here that Safaricom
can also implement the same technology)
can usurp
Safaricom's
unassailable lead in this
space.
What's my
point?
Technology is
an accelerator
and NOT The Strategy in itself. Assume first
that what you can access in the open
market (as opposed to
restricted
technology under patent) your competitors can do
so too. We usually forget this but MPesa
isn't even the
best mobile
technology in the country. Not even by a long
short! They managed to capture their
base through first
mover
advantage and a positioning statement that was
apparently well received by Kenyans. And
of course there is
the Network
Effect of being ubiquitous in the
space.
Equity needs to
execute with
excellence and not depend on the Technology to
take on Safaricom.
Needless to say I would love to be
a
fly on the wall in the
strategy sessions currently going on
in both companies. Careers will be made or broken
on
this..no doubt about
that.
Ali
Hussein
+254 770
906375 / 0713
601113
Twitter:
@AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassimBlog: www.alyhussein.com
"I
fear the day
technology will
surpass human interaction. The world will
have a generation of idiots". ~
Albert
Einstein
Sent from my iPad
On Sep
16,
2014, at 1:06 PM, Collins
Areba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
"We
are glad
to use this platform
to deliver an extension service to our
customers, It is our heartfelt desire to
satisfy our
customers first,
and if technology affords us that
opportunity, we are obliged to take up
on it. If the same
technology
should allow us to interact with our customers,
and have an opportunity to give them
voice and data
in the same
breath, then why not, those would be extras
to
the benefit of our
client... "
Paraphrased from memory during
an
interview on Citizen last
week. I think this opens the game
wide Open, and For the Record, Safaricom
should be given a
Commercial
Banking license.
My 10 Cents.
On Tue,
Sep 16, 2014 at
12:06 PM,
Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
wrote:
Listers,
I thought you might find this
interesting,
----------------
After
Equity Bank decided to directly play in the mobile
money market by issuing its own SIM
cards, we debated
heatedly in
a previous blog whether Safaricom had finally
met its match. At the time, it was
assumed that Equity
would be
selling the traditional SIM card, which would
require customers to either buy dual
SIM-card phones or
carry two
phones in order to access services from two
existing providers.
Even
within the inconvenient scenario above, Equity with
its
large customer base was
bound to pose some significant
competition to the leading mobile money provider
Safaricom. The surprise, it seems, is
the secret weapon
Equity
unveiled recently in the form of a Thin-SIM
Card....
------
Read more @
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/-/2274560/2453920/-/11d48l...
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.