Hi Ali and learned colleagues,

You know any public participation initiative on land related issues
would end up like Bomas 1 when we were doing the new constitution.
That said , there was and still is need for public participation, i
hope the new CS Farida Karoney can breath fresh air at the Registry.
Thank you Walu for the article.


Regards

On 4/12/18, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> @Kanini and @Victor,
>
> The lawyers bold enough to come out fighting. @Rosemary, we are watching
> you. We won’t allow you to all of a sudden become a lurker 😆
>
> To your point Kanini - one of the biggest determinants of success or failure
> of any Digital Transformation initiative is not the technology itself but
> CULTURE. I fear this initiative is doomed to fail simply because it hasn’t
> carried stakeholders along.
>
> I fear a lot of government initiatives will go this way if CULTURE is not
> changed.
>
> Ali Hussein
> Hussein & Associates
> +254 0713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what
> no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 12 Apr 2018, at 9:45 PM, kanini mutemi via kictanet
>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
>> participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However,
>> we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
>> asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting
>> digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
>> digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛
>>
>> That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t
>> solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search,
>> whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a
>> copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results.
>> Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic
>> wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced
>> the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen,
>> company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help
>> you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the
>> platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your
>> own.
>>
>> Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry
>> too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
>> procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it?
>> Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
>> engaged?
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet
>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure
>>> out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your
>>> conveyancing transactions!
>>>
>>> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business,
>>> surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want
>>> these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the
>>> benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to
>>> ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably aware,
>>> land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there is
>>> an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the
>>> conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land
>>> transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid -
>>> so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption,
>>> bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also
>>> important to note that the property management framework is a very
>>> complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there
>>> are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine.
>>>
>>> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
>>> conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and
>>> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here
>>> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
>>> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
>>> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was
>>> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
>>> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change.
>>> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be
>>> more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme
>>> for training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a sketchy
>>> 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
>>> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if
>>> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
>>> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
>>> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
>>>
>>> Ni hayo tu.
>>>
>>> Victor Kapiyo
>>> Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
>>> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
>>> Public
>>> Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
>>> ====================================================
>>> “Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
>>> Ziglar
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet
>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where are the lawyers?
>>>>
>>>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL
>>>>
>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>> Principal
>>>> AHK & Associates
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>>
>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet
>>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> @SMM,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class
>>>>> Suit'.  Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist
>>>>> will come to my aid ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> walu.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet
>>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified
>>>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or
>>>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
>>>>> property.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/ Ministry-switch-to-online-
>>>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Noted well @walu
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> SMM
>>>>>
>>>>> "Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>>>>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32
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>


--
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Skype: barrack.otieno
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