----- Original Message ----
From: "mwananchi@hushmail.com" <mwananchi@hushmail.com>
To: j.maina@ymail.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya opens door to foreign telecoms investors - From Ugandan

Gichuru,

Prior to asking your question you doubted whether Kenyans engaged
in holding a public servant to transparently account, actually
worked, actually resided in Kenya, actually contributed to economic
growth and were only complainants incapable of creating effective
change. In doing so, I believe you answered your own question
before you had a chance to ask it. One can only conclude that your
call for stories is not sincere.

Promoting veiled stereotypes, while suggesting that Kenyans who
live in Kenya cannot stand up for their rights, will not detract
non-elitist Kenyans from ensuring that public servants accountably
engage in service delivery to the Kenyan people. The suggestion
that people are layabouts who wake up one day and raise an issue
that does not affect them in anyway should be consigned to the
proper dustbin. Thank you.

Peterson

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:17:05 +0000 gichuru@gmail.com wrote:
>I keep asking myself , how much change can you effect by
>complaining
>and criticizing the ones who are actually working? How many of you
>criticizing the PS and other government initiative are in Kenya
>contributing to the economic growth? How many have tried running a
>business in this country in the last 10 years and can testify to
>growth?
>
>I am not saying more cant be done, but appreciate what has been
>done..... But if you really have something to say a burning desire
>to
>share, dont talk about the KLM story, KQ Story, we already know
>about
>them, lets hear about your story.. what are you doing or have you
>done? Lets judge for ourselves if you can deliver given a
>chance....
>
>
>
>On 10/14/08, John Maina <j.maina@ymail.com> wrote:
>> Kenyans and other Africans,
>>
>> Yes, I agree. We have the money. But we need to organize to stop
>> the hemorrhage of our resources. This is our moment to make our
>voices
>> heard about our countries' economic sovereignty. What many of
>our
>> leaders are doing giving away our tangible and intangible assets
>> is treasonous and inexcusable.
>>
>> In Uganda, my country, the president, his family and their
>lackeys
>> have turned themselves into a veritable mafia of commission
>agents
>> carrying water for all sorts of foreign interests. They proclaim
>from
>> the rooftops how indigenous Ugandans are too poor and dumb to
>own and
>> manage businesses. Yet, there is plenty of evidence to the
>contrary.
>> Some of that evidence points to how foreigners, including South
>Asians
>> who arrive in the country with only the shirts on their backs,
>are
>> provided with multi-million dollar loans/grants to finance pet
>> enterprises. Ugandans can only dream of such largesse.
>Understandably,
>> many of those foreign "investors" take the money -- pausing only
>long
>> enough to wreck the business -- and run. A good example is
>Tristar, a
>> textile firm that government set up as a showcase of a
>successful
>> Africa Growth Opportunity Act inspired business, was handd on a
>silver
>> platter to a pair of Sri Lankan briefcase businessmen with a
>$2.5
>> million loan from the state-owned Uganda Development bank. Their
>only
>> qualification was that they were "Indian", a nationality that
>Museveni
>> equates with a natural entrepreneurship.
>>
>> In addition to the free business and loan, the conmen were
>> vigorously and publicly supported by the President's office in
>> exploiting an all-female workforce (including sexually),
>recruited
>> deliberately from rural Uganda and kept in apartheid-era like
>hostels,
>> ostensibly because they would be too docile to rebel against
>their poor
>> working conditions. A parliamentary investigation was sparked
>when the
>> "Agoa girls," as the workers were patronizingly called,
>organized and
>> downed their tools. That's when the sordid details of the sorry
>venture
>> emerged.
>>
>> The adage that "if you want to look for traitors, start at the
>> top" is all too true for our countries. With leaders such as
>these (and
>> silent lambs as us), is it any wonder that nearly every race
>holds us
>> in contempt and reaps fortunes out of our losses!
>>
>> Vukoni
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [DigAfrica] Re: [africa-oped] Fwd: Re: [picta-kenya]
>Re: Kenya
>> opens door to foreign telecoms investors
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>> From: "Robert Alai" <alai.robert@gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, October 13, 2008 10:34 am
>> To: digafrica@yahoogroups.com, picta-kenya@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Matunda
>>
>> Kenyans have the money.
>>
>> France
>> Telekoms came to Kenya and bought Telkom Kenya but is being
>supported
>> by the Kenyan government. It doesnt have money upto now.
>>
>> Kencall
>> and all these foreigners claiming that Kenyans have no money
>came and
>> borrowed in Kenyan banks. Tell me which foreigners brought their
>own
>> money. Including Safaricom which went to the NSE and put up a
>bond.
>>
>> Lets
>> not be cheated. Matunda, me and you and all people in Dig Afrika
>and
>> PICTA wont have the opportunity to set up our ICT companies if
>Dr Ndemo
>> is allowed to go ahead. We must insist on local partnership and
>its not
>> something we should be begging for. We must insist on it
>>
>> Regards
>> Alai
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 5:34 PM, nmatunda <matunda@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> --- In picta-kenya@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Theuri"
><mi.ke.the.u.r.i@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Matunda,
>>
>> I concur with your views and completely agree with the way the
>> Canadian banking industry has weathered the financial storm.
>During a
>> brief visit to Canada I noted that there were 5 major Canadian
>banks
>> and one major international institution (Europe's largest
>institution
>> by way of assets) operating in Canada. According to the WEF:
>"Canada
>> has the world's soundest banking system, according to a more
>recent
>> report released by the World Economic Forum. Canada's banks
>received a
>> score of 6.8 out of possible seven, ahead of the banks of five
>other
>> countries which received a score of 6.7 per cent." We are now
>seeing
>> the US rushing to regulate the banking sector and even going as
>far as
>> taking ownership stakes in both US and foreign banks because
>Americans
>> interest and not that of foreigners is at stake. There are
>lessons to
>> be learned from this about the consequences of unplanned
>deregulation
>> ie ownership, operational etc in sectors key to the economy.
>>
>> That said we must closely focus on the issue of Kenya and the
>PS'
>> plan to invite foreigners with no conditions on local ownership.
>My
>> original posting on this issue covered a number of varied
>issues,
>> it appears the discussion has taken on a life of its own after
>it was
>> shared on other forums and has morphed into a protracted battle
>between
>> pro-PS types engaged in a concerted effort to silence the issue
>and
>> individuals who despite their rather harsh and tough ways of
>getting
>> the point across raise valid points that are apparently
>unpalatable for
>> some.
>>
>> On Saturday, I received a message from an individual whom I
>shall
>> not name who has gotten rather cosy with the PS of late
>suggesting that
>> certain parties were out to reignite conflict in the nation
>through the
>> revelation of the PS' plan and the resulting debates on lists
>and that
>> I should play a participatory role in "helping them" squelch the
>> "dissent". I responded saying that the individual was digging in
>the
>> wrong place as there were no hidden dimensions to the issue
>other than
>> the policies mentioned and that Kenyans should be free to hold
>> individuals in public office to account without interference or
>> intimidation. It was disappointing to read such a message hinged
>> with hints to unsavoury moments in our recent history coming
>from an
>> individual who once strongly stood for freedom of expression and
>the
>> right to information. If other individuals have seen it fit to
>raise
>> the issues outside of Picta it is indeed within their rights as
>Kenyans.
>>
>> Unfortunately the answer to Matunda's question is that there is
>> nobody standing up for Kenyans interests on this issue, we only
>read in
>> the media about plans to gazette following alleged consultations
>with
>> foreign stakeholders. There is hardly ever any justification
>made and
>> when it is sought, the PS has repeatedly used isolated but not
>> precedent setting incidents such as the one I mentioned. We all
>recall
>> the Ksh 100m tax payer funded trip the Finance Minister and the
>PS
>> amongst other made to the western hemisphere to court Diaspora
>> investors in 2007, only to display high handedness and refusal
>to
>> answer legitimate questions seeking assurances about the ability
>of the
>> Diaspora to invest in our own country.
>>
>> As a writer observed:
>> http://www.kenyaimagine.com/Economy/Kenya-Finance-Minister-
>courts-investors-abroad.html
>> "Next was the matter of investment, especially that of Kenyans
>> abroad. However much investment opportunities are paraded,
>investors,
>> whether Kenyan or foreign, always have the same questions about
>the
>> local environment with regard to; bureaucratic bottlenecks,
>regulatory
>> climate, corruption, and insecurity"
>>
>> When such questions were brought up the delegation brushed them
>> aside and refused to answer them. Today, we read about Ndemo
>appearing
>> to disregard the interests of Kenyans through his proposed
>policies and
>> calling for increased foreign participation in the Kenyan
>economy. This
>> is simply wrong, why is Ndemo rushing to make conditions better
>for
>> foreigners but not exhibiting the same level of effort for
>Kenyans to
>> have a larger stake in the economy?
>>
>> Ndemo should instead be taking on the issues his delegation
>> brushed aside when questioned by would be Kenyan investors. The
>PS
>> should put his country (Kenya) and its citizens first and that
>means
>> working for the common interests of Kenyans. Any Kenyan who asks
>the PS
>> or the Government to justify and explain its position on
>> such contentious proposals should be given the opportunity to
>express
>> their views, not condemned and counter attacked as seems to be
>the case
>> now on a discussion list serving industry interests. Kenyans
>should not
>> stand by idly as non-progressive proposals are quietly drafted
>and made
>> binding to Kenyans without the process being open to critique
>and
>> public input.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:14 AM, nmatunda
>>
><http://../../../../post?postID=Nwl_acszxFkN4z3b2uNtU8XlfkXWMi8l7Fo
>VzSnzRChXPvqnkZb6vcvKEzgqRf67GjelW9IqJOAw>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I am with you 200% on this.
>>
>> Every country must always act in its self-interest; this move by
>> the PS is deplorable and not in line with long term Kenyan
>interests,
>> especially in as a lucrative area as ICT.
>>
>> In my books, we invite foreigners for such things as (a)
>financing
>> (which by the way Kenyans have shown can be raised locally), (b)
>> operations and management experience & knowledge transfer, (c)
>> relationships that we can leverage through any such joint
>ventures,
>> etc. Joint ventures can also cushion enterprises from predatory
>> illegalities, especially given our weak legal dispute resolution
>> structures! Of the latter, remember when heads of state
>corporations
>> used to queue up with money bags to state house to prop up the
>Moi
>> excesses! Or when companies could be shaken down for political
>> donations at a whim!
>>
>> For me, a good (not ideal!) joint venture is one of the kind
>that
>> Kenya Airways went into with KLM, when KA had been run down by
>> politically connected individuals. KLM brought in management and
>> operations experience, facilitated KA's access to markets and
>routes
>> that KA otherwise couldn't easily access and in the process the
>KA
>> brand rose, as did profits and more! The investment has paid
>well for
>> Kenyans and KLM; a win-win.
>>
>> There is a lesson to be learnt from the current American
>financial
>> crisis with respect to experiences in Canada. This country has
>been
>> under pressure to deregulate its financial services sector for
>the
>> longest time. Banks have argued that they needed mergers to
>allow them
>> to compete globally; and that they needed global partners that
>would
>> help them grow and extend their reach.
>>
>> Canadian government have constantly refused mergers or the kind
>of
>> deregulation the industry sought! Their argument: the interest
>of the
>> common person whose priority banks should be.
>>
>> Guess what? In the present crisis, Canada has come substantially
>> well ahead of the US and others. And for what reason: they stood
>> against unfettered deregulaion! and they stood up for the
>interest of
>> Canadians.
>>
>> I ask all yee this question: who is standing for the interest of
>Kenyans in
>> this open invitation to exploitation?
>>
>> Dr Ndemo needs to be stopped, I am afraid!
>>
>> Unedited.
>>
>> Matunda Nyanchama
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>
>Warm Regards
>--------------------------------------
>Sam Gichuru
>CVO
>
>Register .COM, .co.ke, .NET, .ORG, .INFO and .BIZ domain names for
>FREE. unlimited email addresses. Business Webhosting and Internet
>Marketing services for only Kshs. 1,000 a month.
>
>Ideas Africa Limited - The Web Design and Hosting Company
>Tel : 020-221199, 230663 - Cell: 0722-730565
>Web: www.ideasafrica.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>kictanet mailing list
>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
>This message was sent to: mwananchi@hushmail.com
>Unsubscribe or change your options at
>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40hu
>shmail.com

--
Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here.
http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4d88tmB31ffQ6YfI4lx9Rf7NLWb1ugiNn2azUFjLf1hzBS4K/


_______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: j.maina@ymail.com
Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/j.maina%40ymail.com