This message bounced back yesterday - seems the listserver is having some constipation.... Brian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> Date: Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:) To: Liko Agosta <[email protected]> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]> Hi Liko, Sorry, I was driving with one hand n texting with the other (usinistaki). Thus the v brief response. Pls so feel free to share your views with the rest of the list, we NEED to hear from practitioners! As mentioned, this discussion should help she'd some light on this relatively 'new' industry so that inner and outer stakeholders can develop a better understanding. It would also be great to hear from the ICT Board (hint hint) - although they're probably a bit gun-shy right because they don't want to be flamed. On your point regarding the CEO being 'seconded' to the USA for an extended period... Hmmm... Maybe not... BUT.... Your suggestion about high level representation makes sense. How about a full fledged office, maybe with Dep.CEO ranking.... Dunno...just thoughts.... Nway, please do share ur thoughts, ideas, suggestions, challenges, headaches, the lot! Brian Sent from my iPhone On 03 Sep 2008, at 4:37 PM, "Liko Agosta" <[email protected]> wrote: Brian I don't mind taking a call from you to explain what has happened and where Kenya is and some ideas about the best way forward Obviously, I will be looking at life from a providers point of view … Also, which organization do you represent ? Liko Agosta, CEO Verviant Consulting Services. <http://www.verviant.com>www.verviant.com Phone : 1-919-341-1820 Fax : 1-978-268-8403 Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935 Pager: [email protected] *From:* [email protected] [ mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+likoa= [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Gilda Odera *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:16 AM *To:* Liko Agosta *Cc:* 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:) Hi Brian, If you recall, initially the ICT Board was created mainly " to market Kenya as an outsourcing destination". I think many other things were lumped onto the board without putting structures in place ie. personnel and budgets. On another note, I am surprised you are still asking about the role and obligations of KBPOCCS after the lengthy emails. Maybe you should re-read them?:) It is true there is more shouting from BPO players in KICTANET,media, everwhere..... maybe the others are content or indifferent.... That should not stop the BPO Sector from airing views or making demands. Remember your ISP days? You and some others in the ISP arena were very vocal and that impacted on various other sub-sectors who benefited. I say, if there is an issue that needs attention, it needs to be known. I would suggest that the other sub-sectors also start shouting out their issues that they want to see being resolved. We are all inter-connected so any gains will benefit all others. Can someone from the ICT Board please say something? Is it true you are being blamed by others for focusing too much on BPO and if so, how are you balancing the act? Best Gilda ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Brian Munyao Longwe <[email protected]> *To:* Gilda Odera <[email protected]> *Cc:* 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <[email protected]> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:55 AM *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:) Great input Lika. Seems like you have a real handle on this industry. If I may recap: Clients (I presume these are international) gauge a BPO provider based on four main criteria: a) Capability: This speaks to an area of skillset matching across industry - do we have enough "intel" on the necessary skillsets so that if someone wants to outsource their transcription of recorded audio court records or psychiatric interviews - the BPO operators personnel understand enough about the subject matter to capture the relevant language (don't know if this is a good example but it's what comes to mind) b) Cost-cutting potential: If the customer is the one asking this question, then it seems that they expect the BPO operator to have alread studied to some extent their business, at` least enough to understand ways in which savings can be accrued. c) Referenceable clients If the CEO of the ICT board calls the CEO of ATT he is more likely to get a meeting and business as opposed to the CEO of Kamau Wanjala Outsourcers … again, I don't know what the ICT Board has been doing (am sure they have done a lot … may be like top secret strategy stuff) but in my opinion the CEO of that board should be based in US for like 90% of the year .. talk to clients, be a rain maker, schmooze, play golf and open doors. This belies the assumptions and perceptions on which I initiated this thread. For some reason there seems to be some kind of implicit expectation that the ICT Board exists to servie the BPO industry - why is that? Kenya's ICT is definitely much more than just BPO (as Gilda clearly pointed out). On this list we have heard a lot of complaints (largely from BPO players) about the ICT Board's lack of support for the BPO industry, while on the other hand other sector players saying that the Board pays too much attention to BPO. What should the role and obligation of the board in the BPO sector be? Could it be strategic? What can we say is the role of the BPO/CC Society and it's obligations (both to internal and external stakeholders) in the larger scheme of things? Regards, Brian On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:07 PM, Liko Agosta wrote: All that you guys are talking about is good ... but when I talk to clients they ask the following questions a. Can you do the job ? b. How much will you save me ? c. Have you done this for anyone else (especially in my sector/country) ? d. Can I talk to references 1-3 page executive proposals work better than 50 page proposals. C level execs never go past page 3 of proposals. They really don't care where I am working from Only 1 client asked about Kenyan copyright laws .. and our lawyer gave a sufficient answer... we got the work and have saved them over USD 500,000 About Safaricom and Land Registry and all this projects that keep breaking our hearts and hurting our feelings :) .... Let's assume Safaricom is has 400 customer services reps .... would they be an ideal client for any BPO in Kenya ? if they pay their employees 50k per month .. a BPO would have to charge them 100k per month FOR THE SAME EMPLOYEE across town. Now, maybe I have all this wrong but there are more than 10000 companies in the developed world with over 400 "clerical employees" who they pay an average of 3000$ per month. If you went and targeted these companies .... you can get 100k per employee, pay the employee 50k etc and the client will be happy, you happy, employee happy ... Many local clients take 60-90 days to pay invoices. In US for example, depending on state, it's illegal to hold a vendors payment when work has been done …. My point ... BPOs, Software Providers have to be willing to ignore the local market and focus on external sources of business. The local market is too small, too complicated and the waters are very muddied. About brokers and "consultants". I have been approached by quite a few. People who claim to have connections, venture capital and all that good stuff. I learnt early to say no… early. They are a waste of time in my book Kenya will not become a better outsourcing destination if we come up with ethics guidelines, an act of parliament and the like … now, those will not hurt … but we will benefit more if the ICT Board flanked companies when they are pitching their services to potential clients. By flanking I mean fly to meet the client, do research on financials, help with financing - have a conference in US and invite 100 potential and vetted clients to meet Kenyan providers …. This works like a charm here .. (if GOK spends 500k on tickets and 30 Kenyans are hired making 50k … - ROI is there pretty fast) If the CEO of the ICT board calls the CEO of ATT he is more likely to get a meeting and business as opposed to the CEO of Kamau Wanjala Outsourcers … again, I don't know what the ICT Board has been doing (am sure they have done a lot … may be like top secret strategy stuff) but in my opinion the CEO of that board should be based in US for like 90% of the year .. talk to clients, be a rain maker, schmooze, play golf and open doors. I have always felt that the ICT Board should headhunt and hire people with C level experience from either US or UK … people from the bigger consulting companies Bain, BCG, Accenture, Avanade, EDS … these guys work on million dollar outsourcing deals and have very good contacts. They also would be able to come up with a strategy immediately As Gilda has shown, the harvest is plentiful … Liko Agosta, CEO Verviant Consulting Services. www.verviant.com Phone : 1-919-341-1820 Fax : 1-978-268-8403 Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935 Pager: <[email protected]>[email protected] -----Original Message----- From: kictanet-bounces+likoa= <[email protected]> [email protected] [<[email protected]> mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+likoa= [email protected]] On Behalf Of David Otwoma Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:45 AM To: Liko Agosta Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:) Dear Brian, Looks like you are fully re-charged after last weeks retreat in Naivasha on Strategy. Tell us some more of what is not confidential. Otherwise my wish is to take the baton from my able Chair and respond on bullet 3 in your beautiful rejoinder. As Chair of the Standards and Ethics Committee of the KBPOCCS we (are 7 members) did come up with Standards and Ethics Guidelines which took over eight (8) months to prepare and on June 22nd 2008 the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Information & Communication led us (KBPOCCS members, KICTB who graciously sponsored the event at KICC, CCK, CSK, members of the public who have an interest in BPO&CC pie) into adopting the S&E Guidelines. The next milestone we wish to aim for is have the Guidelines upgraded into a Regulation or an Act of Parliament. Either achievement would be binding to all and sundry who operate in the BPO&CC world. A world which is moving the advancement of the human race from industrial age into information age. Just imagine Kenya having a binding law on Standards and a slice of the USD$310 Billion industry. It would make our young people, because they are the future force in the knowledge economy we keep talking about. What are the next immediate steps. Cozy relations between the Private Public Partnership. Another bullet I will let you peer into what you have been seeing but refuse to acknowledge is bullet No. 7. It was KPLC who introduced me to the world of BPO&CC when they sought S. African expertise to deal with their in-house contact centre better known to the general public (read Brian et al) as Customer Care Centre or Customer Relations Management. Ever wondered when power disappears at any time of the day or night where that 'frustrated' call 'agrily demanding 'where is power?' goes? Yes to a call center owned and managed by KPLC. KPLC as of 2005 when we engaged had a call centre running 24/7 with 210 seats in Nairobi alone. Telecom has a bigger one. Safaricom is soon overtaking Telecom with that news flash. Water companies have. So do all the banks, insurance, etc. companies both private and public owned. Since we have very able Chairs for Training, Marketing etc. I will stop there and go for my dear bottle.....tusker. David On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe < <[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
Excellent Feedback Gilda,
So I see a few very clear issues arising out of your response:
1) There is a distinct global opportunity - but that calls for
appropriate positioning as well as preparation on Kenya's part
2) Capacity issues need to be addressed - knowledge transfer could be
on way - but that implies finding someone who is willing to impart
the knowledge - do they come from inside or outside?
3) Global standards must be recognised and adhered to in order to
ensure entry and competitiveness - what are these standards are they
clearly documented somewhere?
4) Many local operations have not had the exposure necessary/needed
to develop expertise/efficiency/etc - what kind of interventions can
facilitate this?
5) BPO is not the "Holy Grail" as some perceive it, but one piece of
the ICT puzzle that needs to be solved in order to help Kenya attain
it's ambitious goal of becoming a global ICT hub
6) There is a distinct and precise training need for personnel to
supply the Kenyan BPO industry with "bodies to put on seats",
presumably to allow the BPO industry to harness and deliver against
the global opportunity - what interventions (planned or otherwise)
are we taking to meet this target? How accurate is this estimate and
can it be verified?
7) Local Players - your website (must say it's very cute) lists quite
a number (28) - but I must say that I'm quite surprised at some of
the names I find there - didn't know KPLC was offering BPO services
for example - but maybe I'm mistaken in my assumptions....
8) Local opportunities: seems many/most local companies are looking
outside to outsource certain functions or simply "self-provisioning"
- why would Safaricom claim that it's too expensive to outsource
locally based on the price estimates that they got from industry. Is
there a need for our local BPO industry to do some kind of soul
searching and find ways of making themselves/their services more
palatable to local companies?
9) The industry for some reason seems to have attracted brokers - who
are watering down/diluting the true opportunity - what kind of
interventions do we need to "eliminate the middleman" - a seemingly
consistent argument in many sector e.g. tea, coffee, flowers, tourism
etc.....
Brian
On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:10 PM, Gilda Odera wrote:
Hi Brian,
You have raised very pertinent questions in your email below.
Let me answer your queries.
Firstly, it is true that BPO has taken centre stage in many
discussions surrounding Kenya's ICT development and growth and it
is a good thing, here's why:
We are looking at a USD$310 Billion industry by next year, up for
grabs for any destinations that get it right. India is currently
taking up 45% of the total share and China and Phillipines are
steadily growing. And what's more, it can only grow, with the fuel
prices soaring each year,what choice is there for the companies out
there to look for more affordable means of operating.
It is a fact that the western countries are looking for new
alternative destinations to Asia so they do not put all their eggs
in one basket, not with the terrorism threats all over. Where else
but Africa. Why would Kenya not put its house in order to take a
piece of this pie?
Now in regard to your comment on BPO taking centre stage in ICT
development, I would say one thing we need in this country is
opportunity for knowledge transfer done right here. We may produce
more technology oriented personnel but as long as we operate within
the Kenyan way of operating, we are not developing our personnel to
the global standards we want them to attain.Not because we are not
capable, but because many operations have not had the exposure.
I would beg to differ (and government can speak for itself) that we
are putting all eggs in one basket. BPO is but one sub-sector in
the ICT arena. Many other sub-sectors within the sector are quite
active. Software development is coming up and I keep reading
debates on KICTANET. There is an interest.
Content development is also being encouraged. The
telecommunications sector is busy preparing for real competition
and we the consumers can't wait for the benefits, they will have to
have great value adds and affordable pricing.
What steps are we taking to enhance BPO? I leave the ICT Board to
answer that although as Kenya BPO and Contact Centre Society, we
have presented to them the need to train not less than 10,000 per
year, specifically for this sector. Frost and Sullivan who are
normally 90% accurate in their new destination analysis says Kenya
will by 2012 have a BPO sector employing about 120,000 direct jobs
( you can add indirect by another 3-5) as long as the fibre optic
infrastructure is in place on time next year and marketing of the
country takes root.
Who are the players? Our members are on our website
<http://www.kenyabposociety.or.ke>www.kenyabposociety.or.ke . There are ofcourse others quietly
operating.
What are the local opportunities- Our biggest challenge is getting
local companies to outsource though some have started. We expected
the giants like Safaricom to play a role even if it is a CSR role
to demonstrate a level of confidence in the local companies. This
is possible, other companies work with those they outsource to for
a given period, and leave them running efficiently as they require.
All is not lost. Some local companies are outsourcing BPO work and
I wish to challenge Safaricom to outsource part of their BPO work
if they say local outsourcing is not competitive.
The international opportunities are the ones that I have mentioned
are worth $310 Billion. The ball is in our court as Kenyans to
market Kenya as a destination if we are to make any gains. We need
to attract direct clients and not the current brokers who are
exploiting the existing centres,much as their contracts are keeping
some of the centres going.
I hope I have addressed your queries.
Gilda Odera
Chair, Kenya BPO and Contact Centre Society
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Munyao Longwe"
To: "Gilda Odera" < <[email protected]>[email protected]>
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < <[email protected]> [email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:)
Hi All,
It is interesting that BPO seems to have taken a centre stage in many
discussions surrounding Kenya's ICT development and growth. While I
do believe that BPO/KPO has huge potential. I am a bit skeptical
about this "silver bullet" approach which might be akin to putting
all our eggs in one basket.
What if the basket gets stepped on by some giant like Malaysia, South
Africa or others?
I would be very interested in taking a much closer look at the BPO
industry in Kenya. Who are the players? What are the opportunities?
What is the potential for growth? What steps are we taking to enhance/
develop/increase capacity in BPO/KPO? What kind(s) of investments are
required to make this industry boom? What are the local opportunities
for BPO/KPO? What are the international opportunities for BPO/KPO?
I think that answers to these and many other questions will help
other like me who are a bit unclear in their minds as to how BPO will
be our saviour have a clearer view. It might also just show that BPO
is a contributing factor and not necessarily the holy grail that at
the moment seems to be the general perception.
Regards,
Brian
On Sep 2, 2008, at 8:25 AM, David Otwoma wrote:
Dear All,
"Comments from BPO operators and of course other Stakeholders"
please.
Safaricom in Sh1bn customer care plan (see Daily Nation page 28)
-------------------------------------------------
Many companies have been turning to BPOs as the financial benefits of
outsourcing continue to make it compelling, with cost savings and
efficiency improvements being the dominant reasons companies use such
services. However, companies biggest concerns on outsourcing
relate to
data security.
-----------------------------------------------------
The move, seen a precautionary measure in the face of growing
competition, marks a complete turnaround by the mobile provider which
in July last year had sought quotations from local Business Process
Outsourcing (BPO) firms.
"Outsourcing the customer care function proved to be too expensive
for
the kind of quality that we required. We will just have to run the
service in-house," said Safaricom chief executive Michael Joseph.
<http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/-/1006/466372/-/jiyt3xz/-/> http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/-/1006/466372/-/jiyt3xz/-/
index.html
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Sean Moroney
< <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Liko,
We would like to invite you to make a presentation at the
forthcoming
Outsourcing & Contact Centre Conference, which we will be holding
over 4-5
November under the auspices of the Ministry of Information &
Communications
and in partnership with the ICT Board. The programme of confirmed
presentations so far is attached.
It would be great if you would be willing to share your experience
with the
other participants.
Yours sincerely,
Sean Moroney
Chairman
AITEC Africa
UK Tel: +44(0)1480-880774
UK Fax: +44(0)1480-880765
UK Mobile: +44(0)7973-499224
Kenya Mobile: +254(0)721-845674
Mozambique Mobile: +258-82-6181618
Nigeria Mobile: +234(0)802-0571766
SA Mobile: +27(0)724-577887
Skype: seanmoroney
Please visit our discussion group on The Banking Technology sector
in Africa
at: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/africanbankingtech> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/africanbankingtech
AITEC Africa is the trading name of AITEC Conferences Limited
UK Company registration number: 4698475
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+seanm= <[email protected]> [email protected]
[ <kictanet-bounces>mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>
+seanm= <[email protected]> [email protected]] On
Behalf Of Peres Were
Sent: 01 September 2008 12:23
Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Stakeholder Queries:
Liko,
It would be great to hear from you and others, your insights into
sales and
marketing insights that can benefit the BPO, KPO sector. We can
continue the
discussion off the list.
Kind regards
Peres Were
________________________________
From: kictanet-bounces+pwere= <[email protected]> [email protected]
[ <[email protected]> mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+pwere= [email protected]]
On Behalf
Of Liko Agosta
Sent: 01 September 2008 10:33
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Stakeholder Queries:
About ICT Board and all these Boards …
Do they ever have open sessions where stakeholders can review
strategy,
advice, brainstorm ?
As CEO of verviant, I have been able to get business … I feel like
I have
insights into the sales and marketing process that can benefit other
software/ICT providers …
Thanks
Liko Agosta, CEO
Verviant Consulting Services.
Phone : 1-919-341-1820
Fax : 1-978-268-8403
Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935
Pager: <[email protected]>[email protected]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian Longwe < <[email protected]>[email protected]>
Date: Aug 29, 2008 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Board Strategy a Farce
Very strong language - but I think you should relax as your
concerns are
unfounded.
I am at the Strategic retreat. Unfortunately Gilda Odera -
Chairperson of
BPO, who was supposed to be present had to cancel at the last
minute.
Brian
On 8/29/08, Wambui Wakarema < <[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
I have read with surprise the Kictanet mailout from the ICT Board
claiming
they are going for a stakeholders strategy workshop in Naivasha.
Who are these stakeholders? Are there any representing the BPO
sector?? I
ask this because I have contacted the industry association and
they dont
seem
to be in the know either. This is quite bizarre, especially since
BPO is a
key sector of the ICT Board's mandate.
Who are the stakeholders from the other ICT sectors? Shouldnt the
Board be
getting input from key stakeholders at this workshop.
They are wasting government resources going to write strategies
and then
'presenting' to stakeholders, yet stakeholders should have been
involved
from the word go.
The
--
David Otwoma,
Chief Science Secretary,
National Council for Science and Technology,
Utalii House 9th Floor,
Mobile tel: +254 722 141771,
Office tel: +254 (0)20 2346915,
P. O. Box 29899 - 00100, Nairobi, Kenya
email: <[email protected]>[email protected] & <[email protected]> [email protected]
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-- David Otwoma, Chief Science Secretary, National Council for Science and Technology, Utalii House 9th Floor, Mobile tel: +254 722 141771, Office tel: +254 (0)20 2346915, P. O. Box 29899 - 00100, Nairobi, Kenya email: <[email protected]>[email protected] & <[email protected]> [email protected] www.ncst.go.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <[email protected]>[email protected] <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <[email protected]>[email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/likoa%40verviant.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/likoa%40verviant.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <[email protected]>[email protected] <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <[email protected]>[email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <[email protected]>[email protected] <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <[email protected]>[email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: <[email protected]>[email protected] Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: [email protected] cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com