Hi Listers,For those interested in the latest edition of Diplo IG book, kindly follow the link:Kind regardsBonface Witaba
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts
Right (JImmy Gitonga)
2. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts
Right (JImmy Gitonga)
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 13:04:03 +0300
From: JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com>
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the
Facts Right
Message-ID:
<CACV-FdHR2bULDGY_4FJG-SD2FsGkQ6V7FamjeL0MwmG6wxUukQ@ >mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga,
Here are my concerns.
It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the
industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for
people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We
have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field
does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can
also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set
up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks
appear do to a different problem.
then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS in
the proposed bill.
15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT
practitioner if the person -
...
(d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral
character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act.
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke >
wrote:
> Send kictanet mailing list submissions to
> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts
> Right (Ali Hussein)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300
> From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the
> Facts Right
> Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Kamotho
>
> Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:-
>
> That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not.
>
> I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:-
>
> 1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw
> deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended
> (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this
> bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were
> there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting
> was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings
> including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the
> Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I
> contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition
> of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and
> iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all
> negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to
> justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts.
>
> Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a door
> you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't tell me
> much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the Association,
> when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and when is the
> next election or appointments? How about the management?
>
> http://www.ictak.or.ke/
>
> The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to
> represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is
> important don't you think?
>
> A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate
> took me to this site:-
>
> http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information
> there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this
> information is missing on the ICTAK site,
>
> Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular
> elections.
>
> Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/
> index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task= view&mailid=48&key=
> d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual AGMs.
>
> 2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:-
>
> 'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like
> any other is not a matter of life and death.'
>
> My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine
> waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession
> or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a
> government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a
> bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been
> purporting to protect, defend and promote.
>
> You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In
> the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel
> it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families.
> Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some
> of us.
>
> 3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand.
>
> 'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend
> it or to reject it altogether.'
>
> So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a process
> so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this bill is a
> good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm sure I'm
> speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and flawed.
>
> This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution
> to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen
> to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating
> effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh
> in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was
> instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder
> Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that
> replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the
> community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the
> people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history
> here is important:-
>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012- December/018900.html
>
> And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether
> it is executed by a minority or a majority.
>
> 4. To quote you..again:-
>
> My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where
> listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT
> sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes
> a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence
> based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the
> alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of
> proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid!
>
> Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves
> in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion
> have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that
> listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated
> it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day
> to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I
> might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that
> we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink
> at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-)
>
> 5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical
> publicly in rejecting this bill.
>
> http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya-
> rejects-ict-practitioners-bill#
>
> Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this
> government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what
> precipitated it and what is the new position.
>
> Ali Hussein
> Principal
> Hussein & Associates
> +254 0713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>
>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ******************************************
>
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 13:12:20 +0300
From: JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com>
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the
Facts Right
Message-ID:
<CACV-FdFyvT_QKgkLfSiZDASmtWATAgNzs+ge- XTkmrSPE5sk=w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Question: What mechanisms are going to be used to ascertain that a person
meets the requirements of 15(d)?
My question is based on the possibility is that the Council could decide to
arbitrarily choose any one to be a practitioner based on any criteria
chosen by the Council. We would be led to believe that the people sitting
in the council are of "good moral character and a fit and proper" to pass
fair judgement. In Kenya, what does that statement mean?
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 1:04 PM, JImmy Gitonga <jimmygitts@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr. Kamotho wa Njenga,
>
> Here are my concerns.
>
> It is clear we all agree on that quacks should not be present in the
> industry. The word 'quack' is largely used the medical fraternity for
> people who look like doctors, act like doctors and talk like doctors. We
> have had of a few of these cases in this country. And the medical field
> does have the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. So we can
> also agree that quacks are not done away with boards or bills that are set
> up to make sure only certified practitioners were in the field. Quacks
> appear do to a different problem.
>
> then there is the matter of PART III - REGISTRATION OF ICT PRACTITIONERS
> in the proposed bill.
>
> 15. A person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as an ICT
> practitioner if the person -
> ...
> (d) satisfies the Council that he or she is a person of good moral
> character and a fit and proper person to be registered under this Act.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM, <kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke >
> wrote:
>
>> Send kictanet mailing list submissions to
>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> kictanet-owner@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of kictanet digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the Facts
>> Right (Ali Hussein)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:23:23 +0300
>> From: Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke>
>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Update on the ICT Practitioners Bill - Get the
>> Facts Right
>> Message-ID: <8AEC01A2-6299-42D5-8E15-001028BAD0EE@hussein.me.ke >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Kamotho
>>
>> Personal attacks will not deter me or others from saying it as it is:-
>>
>> That the very idea of this bill is flawed - Democracy followed or not.
>>
>> I would like to address your claims/comments one by one:-
>>
>> 1. I didn't attend meetings hence I have given my 'representatives' a raw
>> deal. Firstly I do not claim that I was anointed. When we first attended
>> (Grace Bomu, Walubengo and Myself) the meeting at KEPSA to discuss this
>> bill and it's implications we simply said we were Kictaneters and were
>> there as such. Anyone else on this list was free to attend as this meeting
>> was discussed on the list. I or Grace Bomu attended several meetings
>> including the one which was chaired by John Omo at CCK and the
>> Parliamentary Committee meeting where you also attended. Subsequently I
>> contributed substantially to online discussions between the then 'Coalition
>> of the willing' which comprised of KICTANet members, Bake, KEPSA, MOICT and
>> iHub. The fact that I didn't attend some physical meetings doesn't at all
>> negate my participation and contribution. However, that I do not need to
>> justify to you. I'm merely putting forward my thoughts.
>>
>> Who do you represent Kamotho? Since this issue of representation is a
>> door you have opened. Who is ICTAK? A quick look at the website doesn't
>> tell me much as to who are the bona fide members and officials of the
>> Association, when were they elected/appointed, how long is their term and
>> when is the next election or appointments? How about the management?
>>
>> http://www.ictak.or.ke/
>>
>> The reason I ask this is since you or ICTAK to be specific purport to
>> represent the ICT Community in this country then proof of mandate is
>> important don't you think?
>>
>> A quick cursory search online to look at how such associations operate
>> took me to this site:-
>>
>> http://www.aiita.org/ of the All India IT Association. The information
>> there in is instructive. From the Board of Directors to Management, this
>> information is missing on the ICTAK site,
>>
>> Or ISACA (https://www.isaca.org/) whose local chapter holds regular
>> elections.
>>
>> Or the U.K IT Association (http://members.ukita.co.uk/in
>> dex.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=
>> 48&key=d804decf5d06e74e2b30819cd84db9 e8&Itemid=66) which holds annual
>> AGMs.
>>
>> 2. On point 2 I begin by quoting you on your email:-
>>
>> 'Deliberations proceeded in good faith. Needless to state, this Bill like
>> any other is not a matter of life and death.'
>>
>> My brother, for some of us IT IS a matter of life and death. Imagine
>> waking up one morning and you have been legislated out of your profession
>> or business because of an organization that purports to represent you and a
>> government that is supposed to be a 'Digital Government' sitting by as a
>> bystander and seemingly powerless to defend the very people they have been
>> purporting to protect, defend and promote.
>>
>> You like any other Kenyan has a right to promote any bill whatsoever. In
>> the same breath, I and any other Kenyan has a right to oppose it if we feel
>> it will curb our ability to earn a decent living and protect our families.
>> Make no mistake about it this bill is a matter of life and death for some
>> of us.
>>
>> 3. Another quote from you to emphasize my point on my hardline stand.
>>
>> 'Parliament would be within its mandate to pass the Bill intact, to amend
>> it or to reject it altogether.'
>>
>> So why then are we wasting time in deliberations? Why legitimize a
>> process so that you guys can go back and say 'We consulted and hence this
>> bill is a good place to start and has the blessings of the community.' I'm
>> sure I'm speaking to the majority listers when I say this is unfair and
>> flawed.
>>
>> This country has a habit of using certain clauses of our new constitution
>> to justify nefarious actions, we will simply not stand for it and be seen
>> to be powerless or do anything about it. One that is used to devastating
>> effect is this issue of public participation. WCIT12, Dubai, is still fresh
>> in my mind where the previous ICT Ministry officials led by Dr. Ndemo was
>> instrumental in engaging all stakeholders in crafting a Multi-Stakeholder
>> Position on ITRs. This position was then changed by the new regime that
>> replaced Dr. Ndemo. They did not even have the decency to inform the
>> community. This impunity must stop. Government is supposed to represent the
>> people and when this is abused it is a serious matter indeed. Some history
>> here is important:-
>>
>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/2012- December/018900.html
>>
>> And if I speak alone on this so be it because Tyranny is Tyranny whether
>> it is executed by a minority or a majority.
>>
>> 4. To quote you..again:-
>>
>> My humble understanding is that KICTANet is a serious platform where
>> listers are at liberty to exchange ideas that are supportive of ICT
>> sectoral progress. To this end wisdom should flow unfettered. This imposes
>> a responsibility to ensure that information supplied is factual, evidence
>> based and not merely driven by a passion for online flamboyance. In the
>> alternative, this forum could easily degenerate to mediocrity of
>> proportions only comparable to that of third rate blogs. God forbid!
>>
>> Indeed Ndugu Kamotho. The fact that we disagree and can express ourselves
>> in the very list where the majority who have contributed to this discussion
>> have opposed this bill is in itself a testament to the maturity that
>> listers have demonstrated. If at any time I have come across as opinionated
>> it is because sometimes I am. :-) It is a flaw that I work hard every day
>> to tamper. I am after all human. :-) and I do apologize to anyone that I
>> might have rubbed the wrong way. Including you my brother. I believe that
>> we are mature enough to enjoy a mug of Malindi Macchiato (my favorite drink
>> at Java) and are free to disagree over it? :-)
>>
>> 5. Lastly the ICT CS, Government Spokesperson have been categorical
>> publicly in rejecting this bill.
>>
>> http://cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/government-of-kenya- rejec
>> ts-ict-practitioners-bill#
>>
>> Positions may have changed since then and it is the onus of this
>> government to tell us if in fact their position has changed, what
>> precipitated it and what is the new position.
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Principal
>> Hussein & Associates
>> +254 0713 601113
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>
>>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> ******************************************
>>
>
>
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