We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However, we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛

That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search, whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results. Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen, company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your own. 

Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it? Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they engaged? 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your conveyancing transactions!

I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business, surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?

Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably aware, land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there is an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid - so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption, bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also important to note that the property management framework is a very complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine. 

That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change. But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme for training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a sketchy 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure success. We deserve better, and we can do better. 

Ni hayo tu. 

Victor Kapiyo
Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary Public
Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke 
====================================================
“Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig Ziglar


On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Where are the lawyers? 

Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL

Ali Hussein

Principal

AHK & Associates

 

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim


13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.


Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
@SMM,

I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)

I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class Suit'.  Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist will come to my aid ;-)

walu.

On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:


Correction: Article is via @JWalu


The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable disruption that technology is bringing.


LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..


LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of property.”



On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya@gmail.com> wrote:
Noted well @walu

The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable disruption that technology is bringing.




--
SMM

"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city." Prov 16:32
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