Thanks Ali, Mark, Barrack and Alex for keeping the debate vibrant. Today is our last day of discussing the various issues that have arisen on intermediary liabilities. Two questions: 1. A while ago, one Lister reported on this platform of the efforts he was making to get google to bring some post down and he gave his reasons. If citizens complain to an intermediary for example google that infomation posted on its site is defamatory or harmful, but the intermediary sees no harm in the content and insists that it can only take down the said content if there is a court order, what forms of redress are available for this citizen especially if s/he has no funds to go to court? 2. With Internet users becoming mini publishers (blogs and facebook), do we need a liberal definition of intermediaries that would include them considering such users may have low awareness levels? Over to you Listers. And a great furahi day. Rgds GG From: ali@hussein.me.ke Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:02:44 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] Online Imposters CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Important differentiation Alex. And I concede that impersonation within those parameters isn't necessarily harmful. What I mean here is the impersonation that has a deliberate harmful skew to it. Regards Ali HusseinCEO | 3mice interactive media LtdPrincipal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Oct 18, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: + 1 Alex, i think the law looks at facts if it was commited for the wrong reasons then it ought to be punished. Best Regards On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Alex Comninos <alex.comninos@gmail.com> wrote: Impersonation is not illegal in certain contexts both online and offline. For example one can impersonate someone for art like in a play or for parody and satire. Additionally one can also (badly) impersonate someone at a dress up party for instance. Whether the impersonation actually leads people to believe that the person is really the object of impersonation would of course have a bearing on the law. Thus certain types of online impersonation - for obvious parody for example should not be illegal online. Impersonation for parody or political commentary is an age old and legal tradition. However in many instances politicians do not take kindly to it. Impersonation under certain circumstances online should also be protected. We must take care that policing online impersonation does not have adverse side effects such on freedom of speech, and lead to a policing of parody. The case of India could be an important case to look at http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/internet/article3821584.ece Alex Comninos On 18 October 2012 00:39, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> wrote: Good morning Listers Yesterday we had a stimulating debate on prosecuting hate speech online. Ali Hussein pointed out that what is wrong offline is also wrong online and gave the example of impersonation. Today, we want to focus our attention on online imposters. We have had cases of imposters creating facebook and twitter accounts of known personalities for example of the former government spokesperson Alfred Mutua, Comedian Churchill aka Mwalimu King’gang’ and several politicians. The police have also been impersonated on twitter. In such a case, where is the place of ethics and personal values especially when impersonating other people online? Is there a provision of personal values in our constitution or in any or our legislation that can provide guidance on how to handle online imposters? How should such matters be dealt with? Lets hear it from you. This is the second last day to contribute as we will be winding up this debate tomorrow. Have a wonderful day. Rgds Grace ________________________________ From: ali@hussein.me.ke Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:38:00 +0300 Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ISOC_KE] Prosecution of online hate speech CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: ggithaiga@hotmail.com Alex and all I always find that the simple rules of every day life if also followed on the Internet invariably works albeit with tweaks here and there. What is wrong offline is also wrong online. Impersonation whether off or online is still wrong. The principles of privacy and freedom of expression cuts both ways. I think sometimes we make it too complicated by thinking that the Internet is a unique place where people can get away with things that they probably wouldn't in the 'real' world. Once we accept that the Internet is just another medium which accelerates interaction and blurs community boundaries and accept that the basic tenets of good and bad still remain the same despite the hyper-connectivity enablement we will be the better for it. Regards Ali Hussein CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd +254 773/713 601113 Sent from my iPad On Oct 17, 2012, at 4:15 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: tions. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail.... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. -- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.co... The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.