My two cent contribution to this discussion is that one, we should be open minded and receive divergent issues without resulting to making demeaning statements about the contributors. Everybody is entitled to their points of view as articulated in our constitution. No body’s arguments is the winning one and this forum is supposed to be a “market of ideas” which we can all contribute to with decorum. The other thing and this is my perspective is that Africa must start to define what democracy is all about without looking to the west because as Winston Churchill observed, democracy was seen as a good option just because other forms of leadership had been tested and weaknesses emerged while the concept of democracy was largely new and untested during his times (historians can correct me on this). I have a very strong reservation to what the west want to prescribe to all and sundry with little respect that other contexts and structures had been in existence and working. Just because they may have had inherent weakness do not however subjugate them. In fact, the reasons why our leaders are in problems is because they have tried to ape western leadership principles without a thorough understanding of them and their contexts, and of course there is the pressure to conform. My take is that unless we change our strategies, we will continue to fail miserably. When western powers invade other countries that is viewed as acceptable yet when African states try to assist their fellow “continent” mates like what Kenya and the other African troops is doing in Somali, it is demonized. I strongly believe that circumstances presented Kenya with an opportunity to assist the Somali govt and not purely because our tourists were attacked. Whether the operation will be successful or not, only time will time but at least what’s critical is that efforts have been made whether belatedly or otherwise. What also troubles me is the way the West will push in their cronies to power in Africa just to ensure that their strategic interests are taken care off with no respect of what the citizens really want. Yet we applause for being democratic! For those have lived abroad, truth be told that there is just a pretext of respect for human rights especially for minorities and other marginalized communities. Even the citizenry struggle to make ends meet as life is so expensive. Coming to the media, a lot is expected and the media should be balanced in presenting the different narratives, being critical of what’s happening locally but also what is happening abroad. Its unfortunate that the western media see nothing good from Africa and when I look at our local media, it appears to most of the time be giving credence to that. Of course our training is western oriented but am challenging ourselves to stretch ourselves a little more and be contextual and relevant in our approach. As a I have mentioned earlier, let’s keep this discussion healthy and lively and maybe from some of the ideas shared here, it could actually inform/influence our thinking and work positively. Jane From: kictanet-bounces+info=amwik.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+info=amwik.org@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of David Makali Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:11 PM To: info@amwik.org Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir why is it presumed that when africans think alike with the westerners, or publish views similar to western media, then we are aping them or we have read and been influenced by them? isn't that self demeaning? and how did you, ndemo, know of the Banyamulenge atrocities you allude to except through the same media which you shamefully quote as gospel truth? And isn't Jean Pierre Mbemba charged at the ICC for the atrocities in eastern Congo? Even more, the conclusions you extrapolate from the Financial Times on why Tshisekedi has no foreign backing is a reversal of the writer's argument: the fact that western powers want to back leaders who can first turn around their countries to be peaceful and economically prosperous, but also manipulable to enable them exploit their potential. But to say they do not back Tshisekedi merely because he is his own man, even though it is apparent he is not that popular, is a little overstretched. my arguments against appeasing Sudan are basic but founded on very clear facts. What you are advocating in your winded argument is that the rule of law should be suspended to mollify a dictator in the interest of trade. Well, a lot can be said about that, and history is rich with examples of people who sit pretty and enjoy the oppression of others as long as it benefits them or does not affect their comfort. by the same twisted logic, we should not be in somalia? why? we followed the cue of the international community and stood by as the the country degenerated into a banana republic. now we have rushed in because some tourists were kidnapped. the dividends of this adventure will become apparent in March when a supplementary budget is tabled in the House but was it worth going into Somalia if we are spending over Sh200m a week to keep 3000 troops there? I would love to have you pronounce your opinion on that. the fundamental issue at hand with Sudan should not be lost with futile rationalisation. a court was confronted with a case seeking the arrest of Bashir if he ever sets foot in Kenya. the facts of the law were laid before him. what was he expected to do? according to the wise men in govt, ndemo included, he should have ruled otherwise or somehow found a reason to avoid the verdict he made. so why are we wasting time talking about an independent judiciary? yuck! if that is what machuhi calls "partisan" and "populist emotions" of journalists then he is welcome to propagate his views. but i doubt they will be more than the usual conformist and self preservation arguments - "bend and let it pass" - that never changed the world. repeat: am totally ashamed at the humiliation we as a country are being subjected to by sudan's ultimatums. david _______________ "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." — Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist _______________ PO Box 3234 00200 Nairobi, Kenya cell: +254 722 517 540 _____ From: samuel ochanji <sochanji@yahoo.com> To: dmakali@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Daktari, I completely agree with you on this. Our media does not set the agenda on global events/issues and give a Kenyan or an African perspective on these issues. Instead it simply regurgitates whatever the global media provides us with.Anything from CNN or New York Times is the default position of the Kenyan media. _____ From: "bitange@jambo.co.ke" <bitange@jambo.co.ke> To: sochanji@yahoo.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir Grace, Our media too needs to set the agenda right. Much of what David wrote was heavily influenced from what he read in foreign media. Earlier I made a comparison between what happened in Daffur and in Congo. In 2003 some 5 million people died in the Congo. You may recall the Banyamulenge atrocities inside Congo but in spite the fact that there were indictable people by ICC, the issue was brushed under the carpet. Congo is a mineral rich country with a government that hadly know what is going on in their country. Some people want it that way. Below see a quote from the Financial Times and see why I made that conclusion. "Given the muted response to the evolving fiasco in Congo, there is much less international appetite for outrage, or even for an accurate count. Western countries are less enchanted with Mr Kabila than they were in 2006, when he won a UN-supervised election, promising to bring peace and economic recovery. He has done neither. But unlike Mr Ouattara in Ivory Coast, Mr Tshisekedi does not enjoy significant backing from anyone outside the Congo. He is his own man. That is one reason a large number of Congolese persist in believing that he might turn things round. At 78, he is representative of a generation of opposition leaders who dedicated decades to the fight against dictatorship. Most, including Mr Gbagbo have proved disastrous in government." You cannot be your own man in Africa if you need the support of Western countries. This is a worrying statement and confirms that our media has largely failed in setting the African agenda and begin to influence the rest of the world. Virtually all mineral rich African countries are at war from the west to central and eastern Africa. Is is a coincident? Ndemo. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga@hotmail.com> Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.keDate: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:30:12 To: <bitange@jambo.co.ke> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: [kictanet] Why It’s Wrong For Kenya To Try Pac ifying Angry Bashir _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sochanji%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yahoo.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.