Dear Marcel It is not KICTANET that is being called to respond to their governance structures and certain issues of transparency ...it is KIF. You claim to be the voice if ICT private sector and many have never heard of you. You have been requested by interested Kenyan's not KICTAnet to respond to issues that touch on membership and conflict of interest instead you get defensive. Very Kenyan politician kind of reaction...but then again you are not Kenyan and that is another issue altogether is it not. regards wambui Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:44:45 +0300 From: marcelcwerner@gmail.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya CC: kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke To: wambui@live.co.uk Hello Kictanet membership, The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies. KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week). Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance – I have to conclude today that membership management has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members". We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house. We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense. Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :) 2008/7/11 kevit desai <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>: Alex, Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization, supported by its members who are also reputable and well established organizations. I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your information is false. It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the interest in this invitation. For now I close my participation. Kevit Desai -----Original Message----- From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com] Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24 To: kevit desai Cc: kictanet-lists Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya Kevit; KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund. I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR? Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?. regards, On 7/11/08, kevit desai <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
Dear Sylvester,
Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further
information on the following activities:
Historical & present- Impact
- Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions
private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
- Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
2005,
2006)
- E-Government - municipal councils
- Open source software community
- E-commerce legislation
- Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
- ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
- Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
- National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
- Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
- National innovation system
- University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
- PSDS
- Africon 2009
- Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
Associations:
- KEPSA
- KIF
- IEEE
- Kenya software industry association
Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge
level
of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant
leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board.
We
need your support
Kevit Desai
Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
Governor - KEPSA
Director - KEPSA
Director - Innovation Africa
Director- Kenya ICT Board
Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
BOA - AIESEC
Member - National Strategy for University Education
Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
Mobile: +254 722 517067
www.ict.go.ke
________________________________
From:
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Brian Longwe
Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57
To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
Kenya
Hi Sylvester,
Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which KICTANET
is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn so
many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own
decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
Regards,
Brian
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo
<skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to me?
KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never
heard
of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been
involved.
SK
From:
kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi
Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47
To: skisonzo@gmail.com
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
Kenya
Waudo:
I would like to pose a simple question:
Why are these associations needed?
Joe
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet@mailcan.com>
wrote:
Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The
idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind
that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW
association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was
actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did
someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right
track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure
it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on
someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover
there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the
front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT
Board not being equated with KIF.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
<blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when
KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa
to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am
right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner
workings by visiting.
I am urging action instead of just talk.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com>
wrote:
Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the
internal
operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of KEPSA/
KIF
relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community.
For
your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA
and
decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector
associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto
stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not adequately
represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with
this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the
KEPSA
ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is a
favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the
KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other
associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions"
instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the
MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA
but I
am hopeful things will change.
Waudo
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
<blongwe@gmail.com> said:
Hi Alex,
I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to
you
about KIF.
I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and
anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next
KIF
meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Kevit:
I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask you
further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told
Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now
appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of
"exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be
wrong
but he could clarify.
On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry
Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective, Market
the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see
announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies
Act
( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company?
I
found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and
OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
On the links you sent onlist:
www.innovation-africa.net
Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET
Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET
Status: redemptionPeriod
Updated Date: 24-jun-2008
Creation Date: 14-may-2007
Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >>
www.kif.or.ke
( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion
Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background
when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how
representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in
trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy
participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement
involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs
abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
Alex
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai
<kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
wrote:
From: kevit desai <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce
in Kenya
To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com
Cc: "'kictanet-lists'"
<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM
Hi Alex,
I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and
market segment
associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence:
KEPSA decisions
are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from
the private
sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for
membership in KEPSA, neither
are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows
the same approach
for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and
government agencies are
member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR
BASIS with all
those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no
obligation to
offer service to non members.
Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam
Mwaura of KEPSA or
Marcel Werner of KIF.
Kevit
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gakuru [mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com]
Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45
To: kevit desai
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
Kevit,
How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions
independence?
The political issue here may be monopolization to the
extent of clouding out
other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory
steps in.
We investigate the effects of competition on subjects'
attitude towards
cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments
with different
degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no
competition at all up
to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute
generously to a public
project in the absence of competition, whereas they
contribute very little
in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A
diminishing attitude
towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of
competition increases.
Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the
maximum degree of
competition may be not efficient.
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
react.
--- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai
<kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> From: kevit desai
<kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in Kenya
> To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com
> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT
Policy Discussions'"
<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM
> Hi Waudo,
>
> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> association to full
> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful
> partnership.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kevit Desai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: waudo siganga
[mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com]
> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55
> To: Kevit Desai
> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions'
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>
>
> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when
handling
> KEPSA and KIF at
> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to
promote
> KIF at the
> expense of other associations. The explanation is very
> simple: KEPSA was
> formed as a focal point, a bringing together
characterised
> by INCLUSIVITY.
> KIF on the other hand is an independent association
and the
> nature of such
> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership
> mechanism). I would like
> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA
ICT
> Board, not just
> KIF. Please give us space.
>
> Waudo
>
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit
Desai"
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
>
> Hi Alex,
>
>
>
> KEPSA (info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body
with
> its own governance
> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity
and as
> KIF vice
> chairman.
>
>
>
> KIF (secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry
> association, member
> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
>
>
>
> Centurion Systems Ltd: (www.centurionsystemsltd.com)
> private company,
> director, member of KIF.
>
>
>
> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
>
> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
>
> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
>
> Governor - KEPSA
>
> Director - KEPSA
>
> Director - Innovation Africa
>
> Director- Kenya ICT Board
>
> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
>
> BOA - AIESEC
>
> Member - National Strategy for University Education
>
> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP
Kenya
>
> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
>
>
>
> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
>
> Raphta Rd
>
> , Westlands -Nairobi
>
> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
>
> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020
> 2049750
>
> Mobile: +254 722 517067
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> htpp://www.ict.go.ke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: waudo siganga
[mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM
> To: kevit desai
> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions'
> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>
>
> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET
I can
> answer it on
>
> the same forum. I think the picture being painted
about a
> rosy situation
>
> including "collaboration" is simply not
true. The
> reason to be frank is
>
> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other
> association to
>
> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government.
Could
> you as a
>
> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations
> including the
>
> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute
in
> KEPSA? It can be
>
> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to
promote
> KIF and crack
>
> down on those you feel are in the way.
>
> Waudo
>
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit
desai"
>
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
>
>> Hi Walu,
>
>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA.
I
> would like to confirm
>
>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We
would
> like to do a lot
>
>> more
>
>> and welcome more support.
>
>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our
last
> ministerial stakeholder
>
>> forum.
>
>> Collaboration is the way forward.
>
>>
>
>> Kevit Desai
>
>> KEPSA Director
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From:
>
kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
>>
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
]
>
>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
>
>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
>
>> To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
>
>> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions
>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
Regulation for
> e-Commerce in
>
>> Kenya
>
>>
>
>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on
GPRS
> somewhere in the
>
>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the
IT
> (or ICT) Profession
>
>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather
> unenthusiastic response I
>
>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
the
> correct list since
>
>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in
ICT
> Policy rather than
>
>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two
weeks
> there will be another
>
>> list for professionals and you will be informed
(you
> have the
>
>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing
for a
> registration board
>
>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and
> Procurement
>
>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on
> unheralded. All we need
>
>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
>
>> Waudo
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT),
"John
> Walubengo"
>
>> <jwalu@yahoo.com> said:
>
>>> Marcel,
>
>>>
>
>>> It looks like quite some work has been
ongoing in
> this
>
>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was
> restricted within KIF only?
> I
>
>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK,
Waudo r
> u there?) or
>
>>> Information Security Audit & Control
> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
>
>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in
Kenya
> were involved. I beg to
>
>>> be enlightened.
>
>>>
>
>>> This brings in an old question - who really
> represents the IT Profession
>
>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
that
> IT is the only
>
>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
the
> same authority as LSK
>
>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of
> Engineers of Kenya), Medical
>
>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to
regulate
> the IT Profession.
>
>>>
>
>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the
bill
> either (and has a
>
>>> different objective anyway). But time has
come
> to really start thinking
>
>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we
> struggle to regulate the
>
>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead
on
> this, but they have been
>
>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes
at
> the end of the year
> (Waudo
>
>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had
to
> say it!).
>
>>>
>
>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
particularly
> in the Manufacturing
>
>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been
as
> effective - particularly
>
>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
IT
> industry has been 'cloudy'
>
>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example
CSK
> or ISACA be part of
>
>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again
need to
> be enlightened.
>
>>>
>
>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
thinking
> loudly and saying that as
>
>>> we think of regulating electronic
transactions,
> we also need to
>
>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT
> profession..but maybe I am wrong.
>
>>> Particularly because regulation can and
often
> leads to suppression...
>
>>>
>
>>> walu.
>
>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner
> <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>> From: Marcel Werner
> <marcelcwerner@gmail.com>
>
>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and
> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>
>>>> To: jwalu@yahoo.com
>
>>>> Cc: secretariat@kif.or.ke,
"KICTAnet
> ICT Policy Discussions"
>
>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>
>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
>
>>>> Legislation and Regulation for
e-Commerce in
> Kenya
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing
Note #
> 3 - Report -
>
>>>> Public Panel 19
>
>>>> June 2008
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will
add
> at least one
>
>>>> percent point growth
>
>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth
> within five years.
>
>>>> This is contingent
>
>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that
> supports electronic
>
>>>> transactions. *Kenya,
>
>>>> as an emerging economy and regional
leader,
> lags behind in
>
>>>> having a legal
>
>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The
> current situation is
>
>>>> an anachronism
>
>>>> hampering national development, placing
> provincial centres
>
>>>> at a
>
>>>> disadvantage, and harming global
> competitiveness. Both
>
>>>> external and internal
>
>>>> trade require the new framework.The
Kenyan
> private sector
>
>>>> strongly supports
>
>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as
> legislation of the
>
>>>> Information and
>
>>>> Communication Technology sector that
> guarantees an open
>
>>>> market and promotes
>
>>>> innovation.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation
> supporting
>
>>>> electronic transactions
>
>>>> represents the single most powerful
> innovation opportunity
>
>>>> in the legal
>
>>>> framework of the ICT sector.
Legislation is
> needed to:
>
>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by
> recognizing an
>
>>>> electronic signature
>
>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r
<KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
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